AMG video on : setting the record straight on our golf swing analysis

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Or realised he spouted stuff with nothing to back it up and to his surprise AMG showed his ramblings up for what they were. 

 

You call good example when the reality is he can't argue the actual points in the video. It's actually hiding. A good example would have been holding his hands up really.

 

He could have at least deflected and waffled on about click bait or something;-)

 

golfarb1 is russc from the slicefixer days. Very old guy. Should just leave the guy alone, AMG made a video in response to him and have no idea who he is. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by MK7Golf21

[Ghost of Snead]

45 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

golfarb1 is russc from the slicefixer days. The 80+ year old guy who used a leather work glove as a golf glove and wearing long boots to hitting balls in a pasture. Should just leave the guy alone, AMG made a video in response to him and have no idea who he is. 

 

Nah, that was Mizuno Joe.

[MK7Golf21]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Snead said:

 

Nah, that was Mizuno Joe.

That’s right. Well golfarb1/russc is very old as well, best to just leave him alone. 

[Hilts1969]

53 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

golfarb1 is russc from the slicefixer days. The 80+ year old guy who used a leather work glove as a golf glove and wearing long boots to hitting balls in a pasture. Should just leave the guy alone, AMG made a video in response to him and have no idea who he is. 

 

And that's the problem with anonymity with usernames i guess. Everyone has the right of reply when questioned publicly. 

[golfarb1]

I am surprised that Mr NEFF made the response that he did . Previously in past years I made points 1,2.3 that elicited little response . And point 4 is critical of how other instructors have misunderstood AMG points on recentering during the later part of the backswing ., NOT AMGs suggestion per se which seems to reasonable.

If Anyone wants to discuss the 4 points that I made , I require  two simple conditions . #1 is that there is no  ad hominem attacks . Second is that I decide the order of discussion .

Part of my points will be a much more in depth discussion of the underlying anatomy  discussed . For those who do not understand the anatomy , I will be happy to provide graphics 

 

First , describe how other industries like finance , chemistry and pharmaceuticals analyze data . Do  these industries depend on the use of simple averages 

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by golfarb1

[GolfTurkey]

1 hour ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

golfarb1 is russc from the slicefixer days. Very old guy. Should just leave the guy alone, AMG made a video in response to him and have no idea who he is. 

 

Don't know why, but that reminds me of this old guy who used to spam a tennis forum.

 

He was convinced that modern technology had ruined tennis, for players and spectators.

 

He didn't want to roll things back to maybe the era of Borg and McEnroe, he wanted to go all the way back to the 1930s.

 

He used to post all this old grainy black and white British Pathe footage of players in long trousers dinking slices and pirouetting around the baseline.

 

Sort of reminds me of someone else, but I can't quite work out who.

[virtuoso]

2 hours ago, RobertBaron said:

Yes. Like every other YouTube channel with tons of subs. It’s pretty much the only way to get an audience 

Thanks for pointing this out. Maybe that is the best way to get a lot of subscribers. I started a you tube channel a couple years ago and I only have like 20-30 subscribers. But, I've been telling people they've got to hit a bunch of balls and even then probably still won't get it. But at least I'm trying to be honest about the futility of it all.

 

One subscriber said I was a rude diva and a soul crusher, and promptly unsubscribed in protest.

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

golfarb1 is russc from the slicefixer days. Very old guy. Should just leave the guy alone, AMG made a video in response to him and have no idea who he is. 

Wait a minute, Golfarb gets to be the crazy uncle at Thanksgiving and the only people that get scolded are the family members that riled him up because they should have known better?

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

golfarb1 is russc from the slicefixer days. Very old guy. Should just leave the guy alone, AMG made a video in response to him and have no idea who he is. 

I call it the grandfather affect.  At every range around the world  there are grandfathers with their grandchildren, giving them lessons.  It’s never good.  They are and always have been high handicaps.  They think because they’ve been around for so long, played so much golf, watched so much golf and have read golf magazines going back to the 50’s, that they know what they’re talking about.

 

My son is more of a football, basketball and baseball player and only plays golf once or twice and month at most and never practices, but he’s still a solid 10-15 cap, capable of 39 or 52 for 9 holes.  He’s the QB and SS on his freshman football team and led them to a city championship, with 3 TD passes in the championship game and sealed two other games with pick 6’s playing SS .  

 

He plays golf a couple of times a year with my ex wife’s dad.  He has never been better than an 20 handicap and never breaks 100, yet every time my son hits a bad shot, he has a tip at the ready from the hackers handbook.

 

You didn’t keep your head down, you tried to kill that one, slow down your tempo, etc.

 

I give my son very little instruction.  I let him have fun unless he starts to do something that is detrimental to his growing body.  If he gets serious and wants more help, I will of course, give it to him.

 

Not long ago he asked me why he sliced his driver on bad days.  I told him.  A few days later his grandfather was offering non stop unsolicited advice and he made the mistake of telling him, “My dad said that was wrong.”

 

He got a diatribe about I don’t know everything and he’s been playing for 50 years and reads all the magazines and knows for sure it’s right.

 

I told my son the same thing I tell all my juniors.  “When your grandfather or grandmother tell you something, you say thank you.  Then when you hit a good shot, ask if that was better.  They will say yes and everyone is happy.”

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[iacas]

4 hours ago, RobertBaron said:

I mean Saguto is pretty clickbait-y too. 

 

I thought @virtuoso was being sarcastic.

 

4 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

1.  The golfer’s idea that positive change will be quick and painless.

2.  The long time narrative you have to get worse before you get better.

 

I hate those too, especially the second thing. Sometimes it happens because you've removed one compensation without really getting to the other one, but… usually if you point that out to the student, they're good with it and can still play good golf if they account for it.

 

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

@golfarb1 dashed off a post and moved on with his life. AMG replied with a one-hour video. What's @golfarb1 supposed to do now, release a miniseries? 

 

He's much smarter to let it go. Setting a good example, if you will. 

 

Or… he's just embarrassed at how badly his "argument" was dismantled that he doesn't have anything to say. (I know he replies later on…).

 

What he'd have done if he was smart? Something like this: "Oh, wow, I didn't expect that they would go through all of that trouble just to address why I don't like their stuff. In having watched the video, it's now obvious I wasn't speaking the same language as them or got some things flat out wrong. I still don't like AMG for reasons even I don't understand, but I concede the match to them."

 

3 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Dude, I hadn't seen those. He is clickbait-y! Does he have a bunch of others like that?

 

So you weren't being sarcastic? Or you were, and still are? 🤣

 

3 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Yeah, I know what he means, but as you know, when working with students, you finally get them to actually make the "weird" move (which they never would have tried on their own, ever) and they flush it....and they look at you with stars in their eyes. Obviously at that point the "awkward" feel becomes "awkward but neat in a strange new way."

 

Oh my, I've had people on the range literally laughing their asses off at how WEIRD the thing they're doing feels… and yet how good they're hitting it. In a "NO WAY this works like this!" Those are the happy days. Then, two days later, they've already forgotten how extreme and weird it has to feel… and they wonder why they aren't getting those laughably good results again. 🤦🏼‍♂️

 

2 hours ago, virtuoso said:

There are different ways to define it....move on, set a good example, run away, retreat, cower, pout...whatever...

 

👍🏼

 

2 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

Or realised he spouted stuff with nothing to back it up and to his surprise AMG showed his ramblings up for what they were. You call good example when the reality is he can't argue the actual points in the video. It's actually hiding. A good example would have been holding his hands up really. He could have at least deflected and waffled on about click bait or something;-)

 

He left that for the other usual suspects.

 

27 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

I am surprised that Mr NEFF made the response that he did . Previously in past years I made points 1,2.3 that elicited little response . And point 4 is critical of how other instructors have misunderstood AMG points on recentering during the later part of the backswing.

 

Let me translate that: "I was completely exposed and wrong about points 1, 2, and 3, and have no actual response given how badly I was made to look."

 

27 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

If Anyone wants to discuss the 4 points that I made , I require  two simple conditions . #1 is that there is no  ad hominem attacks . Second is that I decide the order of discussion .

 

🤣

 

27 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

Part of my points will be a much more in depth discussion of the underlying anatomy  discussed . For those who do not understand the anatomy , I will be happy to provide graphics 

 

The last time I tried to discuss it with you, I pointed out that you didn't understand when the sacrum moved forward.

 

27 minutes ago, golfarb1 said:

First , describe how other industries like finance , chemistry and pharmaceuticals analyze data . Do  these industries depend on the use of simple averages

 

First, they already responded to this "point" of yours pretty thoroughly in the video. Secondly, what do "other industries" have to do with anything? And… I have a degree in medicinal chemistry (with a heavy pharmaceutical background), and there are a LOT of times when a simple average is useful… just like in every industry. If you know what an average is… it's useful info in the right situation. Especially if you also know the standard deviation, etc.

 

25 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

He used to post all this old grainy black and white British Pathe footage…

 

GolfWRX has that guy already. It's @Zitlow.

[virtuoso]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I thought @virtuoso was being sarcastic.

 

Nuclear levels of sarcasm. 

[virtuoso]

20 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Oh my, I've had people on the range literally laughing their asses off at how WEIRD the thing they're doing feels… and yet how good they're hitting it. In a "NO WAY this works like this!" Those are the happy days. Then, two days later, they've already forgotten how extreme and weird it has to feel… and they wonder why they aren't getting those laughably good results again. 🤦🏼‍♂️

Their golfing brain runs home to momma every time.

[virtuoso]

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

The last time I tried to discuss it with you, I pointed out that you didn't understand when the sacrum moved forward.

 

I would also like to add for the record the Left Hip Abduction Debacle.

[MonteScheinblum]

8 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

I would also like to add for the record the Left Hip Abduction Debacle.

If you saw the swing, you’d understand 

[virtuoso]

Just now, MonteScheinblum said:

If you saw the swing, you’d understand 

Don't tease me.

[iacas]

23 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Nuclear levels of sarcasm. 

 

😉

 

22 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Their golfing brain runs home to momma every time.

 

Yep.

 

21 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

I would also like to add for the record the Left Hip Abduction Debacle.

 

I missed that one. Sounds like I should be thankful for that.

[Albatross Dreamer]

39 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I thought @virtuoso was being sarcastic.

 

 

I hate those too, especially the second thing. Sometimes it happens because you've removed one compensation without really getting to the other one, but… usually if you point that out to the student, they're good with it and can still play good golf if they account for it.

 

 

Or… he's just embarrassed at how badly his "argument" was dismantled that he doesn't have anything to say. (I know he replies later on…).

 

What he'd have done if he was smart? Something like this: "Oh, wow, I didn't expect that they would go through all of that trouble just to address why I don't like their stuff. In having watched the video, it's now obvious I wasn't speaking the same language as them or got some things flat out wrong. I still don't like AMG for reasons even I don't understand, but I concede the match to them."

 

 

So you weren't being sarcastic? Or you were, and still are? 🤣

 

 

Oh my, I've had people on the range literally laughing their asses off at how WEIRD the thing they're doing feels… and yet how good they're hitting it. In a "NO WAY this works like this!" Those are the happy days. Then, two days later, they've already forgotten how extreme and weird it has to feel… and they wonder why they aren't getting those laughably good results again. 🤦🏼‍♂️

 

 

👍🏼

 

 

He left that for the other usual suspects.

 

 

Let me translate that: "I was completely exposed and wrong about points 1, 2, and 3, and have no actual response given how badly I was made to look."

 

 

🤣

 

 

The last time I tried to discuss it with you, I pointed out that you didn't understand when the sacrum moved forward.

 

 

First, they already responded to this "point" of yours pretty thoroughly in the video. Secondly, what do "other industries" have to do with anything? And… I have a degree in medicinal chemistry (with a heavy pharmaceutical background), and there are a LOT of times when a simple average is useful… just like in every industry. If you know what an average is… it's useful info in the right situation. Especially if you also know the standard deviation, etc.

 

 

GolfWRX has that guy already. It's @Zitlow.

Welp there goes our admittedly small odds of getting a more detailed response.  Just couldn't bite your tongue could you iacas 😆

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Welp there goes our admittedly small odds of getting a more detailed response.  Just couldn't bite your tongue could you iacas 😆

 

I mean… did we really want more @golfarb1? 🤔

[Albatross Dreamer]

55 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I mean… did we really want more @golfarb1? 🤔

Call me crazy but I kinda did. I like seeing detailed thoughts from all sides even if it ends up being outlandish. At minimum makes me think about something differently. It might be different for us though as we have different levels of knowledge when it comes to the golf swing.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Call me crazy but I kinda did. I like seeing detailed thoughts from all sides even if it ends up being outlandish. At minimum makes me think about something differently. It might be different for us though as we have different levels of knowledge when it comes to the golf swing.

 

I wasn't being 100% serious. Which, heck, is why I wrote two responses for him myself already. 😉 

[Trippels]

3 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Call me crazy but I kinda did. I like seeing detailed thoughts from all sides even if it ends up being outlandish. At minimum makes me think about something differently. It might be different for us though as we have different levels of knowledge when it comes to the golf swing.

You could use some chatgpt ai to get some "detailed thoughts" in the same style. Here's what it gave me for the topic of forearm motion:

 

Forearm rotation in a golf swing is a critical component of achieving proper clubface control, accuracy, and power in your shot. This complex movement involves the precise coordination of various muscles, tendons, and joints in the upper extremities. Understanding the anatomical and biomechanical aspects of forearm rotation in a golf swing is crucial for golfers aiming to improve their game and prevent injuries.

The golf swing is a dynamic motion that engages the entire body, but the role of the forearm rotation is particularly significant during the downswing and follow-through phases. Let's delve into the medical terminology associated with this motion:

1. **Humerus and Ulna**: The upper arm bone (humerus) and the larger forearm bone (ulna) are essential components in the golf swing. The humerus forms the foundation for the swing, while the ulna plays a pivotal role in forearm rotation.

2. **Radioulnar Joint**: This is the joint connecting the radius and ulna, located at the elbow. The radioulnar joint allows for pronation and supination, which are essential for forearm rotation.

3. **Pronation**: Pronation refers to the inward rotation of the forearm. In a golf swing, pronation occurs during the transition from the backswing to the downswing. It allows the golfer to square the clubface and generate power by coiling the muscles of the forearm and wrist.

4. **Supination**: Supination is the opposite of pronation and involves the outward rotation of the forearm. It is crucial during the follow-through phase of the golf swing, helping to maintain control of the clubface and achieve a balanced finish.

5. **Flexor and Extensor Muscles**: The muscles that control forearm rotation include the flexor muscles (such as the flexor carpi ulnaris and flexor carpi radialis) and the extensor muscles (including the extensor carpi radialis longus and brevis). These muscles are responsible for the intricate movements of the wrist and forearm during the golf swing.

Now, let's discuss how forearm rotation should be performed in a golf swing:

1. **Address Position**: Begin with a proper grip on the club, and ensure that your wrists and forearms are in a neutral position. This alignment allows for effective forearm rotation during the swing.

2. **Backswing**: During the backswing, your lead arm (left for a right-handed golfer) should remain relatively straight, with the ulna and humerus forming a straight line. As you hinge your wrists, the lead forearm will rotate slightly, but it's crucial to maintain control and avoid excessive rotation at this stage.

3. **Transition to Downswing**: As you initiate the downswing, the pronation of your lead forearm begins. This motion helps to square the clubface and transfer power from your lower body to the clubhead. The lead wrist should remain flat during this phase, allowing for optimal impact with the ball.

4. **Follow-Through**: After impact, the supination of the lead forearm comes into play. This movement contributes to a balanced and controlled finish. The lead forearm should rotate outward as your body continues to rotate toward the target.

5. **Maintain Flexibility and Strength**: To perform forearm rotation effectively, it's essential to maintain flexibility and strength in the muscles and joints involved. Regular stretching and strength-training exercises can help golfers optimize their forearm rotation and reduce the risk of injury.

In summary, forearm rotation in a golf swing is a complex interplay of anatomy and biomechanics, involving the humerus, ulna, radioulnar joint, pronation, and supination. Proper execution of forearm rotation is essential for clubface control, accuracy, and power. Golfers should pay attention to their grip, wrist position, and the sequence of rotation during the various phases of the swing to optimize their performance on the course. Moreover, maintaining muscular flexibility and strength is crucial for preventing injuries and enhancing the quality of the golf swing.

 

[MonteScheinblum]

11 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Call me crazy but I kinda did. I like seeing detailed thoughts from all sides even if it ends up being outlandish. At minimum makes me think about something differently. It might be different for us though as we have different levels of knowledge when it comes to the golf swing.

Agreed. 
 

The issue is this.

 

There’s nothing wrong with someone suggesting that 2+2=5, then a discussion ensues where why it’s 4 becomes the discussion and certain misunderstandings make it appear it’s 5.

 

The issue is when someone in the field of math shows why 2+2=4 and someone just unilaterally says, that person has no idea what they’re talking about and only offers “I just know it’s not, because math is prejudice”

Edited November 3, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[KD1]

1 hour ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Welp there goes our admittedly small odds of getting a more detailed response.  Just couldn't bite your tongue could you iacas 😆

He demonstrated that he's not willing to debate in good faith.

 

He said he wants a civil discussion? Great.

 

He says no ad hominem? Couldn't agree more.

 

He dictates direction of the conversation? That's weird.

 

He dictates that the first point of discussion is other industries use of simple averages? Well that's just good old fashioned straw man.

Edited November 3, 2023 by KD1

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

I missed that one. Sounds like I should be thankful for that.

Not so fast mi amigo, you were there. It was the same thread where he threw a fit about us not using the correct anatomical terms…..hip turn vs pelvis rotation, etc……and then he got confused about hip abduction……and disappeared into the mist.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, KD1 said:

He dictates direction of the conversation? That's weird.

 

He dictates that the first point of discussion is other industries use of simple averages? Well that's just good old fashioned strawman.

 

😄 And wrong.

 

2 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Not so fast mi amigo, you were there. It was the same thread where he threw a fit about us not using the correct anatomical terms…..hip turn vs pelvis rotation, etc……and then he got confused about hip abduction……and disappeared into the mist.

 

Oh, right then. Okay. Thanks for clarifying. I think I purged most of that from my RAM. Wrote it to the disk cache.

Edited November 3, 2023 by iacas

[MonteScheinblum]

12 minutes ago, KD1 said:

He demonstrated that he's not willing to debate in good faith.

 

He said he wants a civil discussion? Great.

 

He says no ad hominem? Couldn't agree more.

 

He dictates direction of the conversation? That's weird.

 

He dictates that the first point of discussion is other industries use of simple averages? Well that's just good old fashioned straw man.

I would hate that because then I would never be brought up as part of the discussion and I’d feel left out. 

[virtuoso]

1 minute ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I would hate that because then I would never be brought up as part of the discussion and I’d feel left out. 

I would petition the Great Arb to authorize an ad hominem exception in your personal case…..provided it was within the bounds of his dictation.

[Albatross Dreamer]

26 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Agreed. 
 

The issue is this.

 

There’s nothing wrong with someone suggesting that 2+2=5, then a discussion ensues where why it’s 4 becomes the discussion and certain misunderstandings make it appear it’s 5.

 

The issue is when someone in the field of math shows why 2+2=4 and someone just unilaterally says, that person has no idea what they’re talking about and only offers “I just know it’s not, because math is prejudice”

I agree with that. I clearly also have not been privy to some of the, um, exciting conversations the rest of you have. Only saw a couple that I thought were reasonable, but obviously there's a longer history here.

[Albatross Dreamer]

17 minutes ago, KD1 said:

He demonstrated that he's not willing to debate in good faith.

 

He said he wants a civil discussion? Great.

 

He says no ad hominem? Couldn't agree more.

 

He dictates direction of the conversation? That's weird.

 

He dictates that the first point of discussion is other industries use of simple averages? Well that's just good old fashioned straw man.

I'm not going to argue any of your points since I really don't have a dog in this fight.

 

On the last two points I thought he said "order" as in which of the 4 points we'd start with and go from there not "direction" like gets to lord over the conversation. Then for the last one using other complex fields since golf is also complex.

 

Maybe I'm wrong on those. Doesn't matter to me 🤷‍♂️

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

I would petition the Great Arb to authorize an ad hominem exception in your personal case…..provided it was within the bounds of his dictation.

 

Only if you use the ad hominems in a way that matches how they're used in ANATOMY 101.