Steep and with Early Extension

[RoyalMustang]

I'd love some more feedback on this. I'm very steep: my rear hip "feels" like it's going up and back but in this video, seems to be only going up. I'm not creating space. You can also see a bit of slide there; maybe my hips are driving too far forward. at the top. 

 

You can see my rear foot come off the ground; I can't help it on a full swing. I'm still lacking some sort of mobility in my hips, even though my external hip rotation is measuring 43-L and 45-R, which on paper is fine. I can keep my rear foot glue to the ground on a 70 yard shot: anything beyond that and I can't do it. 

 

What drills or additional streching are required to combat these (likely related) issues?  

 

This is miles better than where I was a couple of months ago with far less EE than I prevoiusly had. My scores reflect that, but I've still got a lot of work to do and would appreciate any help. 

 

 

Edited January 8 by RoyalMustang

[Valtiel]

Quote

...I'm still lacking some sort of mobility in my hips

...What drills or additional streching are required to combat these (likely related) issues?

Thankfully this isn't the issue, your backswing is. We talked about this previously although I don't recall which thread it was in, but look at this like a practical "A -> B" problem that i'll try to explain in test (I have a gif for this but attachment limits are preventing posting)

From your address position to the top of your swing your hands work *straight* up into the air. No hyperbole, your hand path is perpendicular to the ground like you're swinging an axe to chop wood, therefore everything else (including your hips) needs to work around the fact that you aren't swinging the club in any kind of proper "arc". If you were to gain hip depth, and therefore slightly *increase* your distance from the ball, you would likely have a very hard time getting back to the ball with this current backswing. Overall you need to feel like your hands work flatter and back over your right shoulder, much less "up", while also eliminating that "push away" move they do to start the backswing. I'll follow up with a gif later.

[RoyalMustang]

15 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Thankfully this isn't the issue, your backswing is. We talked about this previously although I don't recall which thread it was in, but look at this like a practical "A -> B" problem that i'll try to explain in test (I have a gif for this but attachment limits are preventing posting)

From your address position to the top of your swing your hands work *straight* up into the air. No hyperbole, your hand path is perpendicular to the ground like you're swinging an axe to chop wood, therefore everything else (including your hips) needs to work around the fact that you aren't swinging the club in any kind of proper "arc". If you were to gain hip depth, and therefore slightly *increase* your distance from the ball, you would likely have a very hard time getting back to the ball with this current backswing. Overall you need to feel like your hands work flatter and back over your right shoulder, much less "up", while also eliminating that "push away" move they do to start the backswing. I'll follow up with a gif later.

 

Thanks! I have trouble mimicing that in my swing; it's a flexiblity/rotational issue that I'm working to correct as I'm not able to "turn" the way I want and therefore feel that I have to get my hands "up" to get to the top. But you think that if I can solve this in my backswing, I'll be smoother through and won't need that EE? If so, that's a simple fix assuming I can gain the flexibility needed. 

 

I grew up in a logging town and we chopped a lot of wood to make money for Boy Scouts. Could be another reason why I have this motion. 

[GoGoErky]

27 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Thanks! I have trouble mimicing that in my swing; it's a flexiblity/rotational issue that I'm working to correct as I'm not able to "turn" the way I want and therefore feel that I have to get my hands "up" to get to the top. But you think that if I can solve this in my backswing, I'll be smoother through and won't need that EE? If so, that's a simple fix assuming I can gain the flexibility needed. 

 

I grew up in a logging town and we chopped a lot of wood to make money for Boy Scouts. Could be another reason why I have this motion. 

What flexibility issues do you think you have?

 

Are you able to do this drill?

 

 

 

[RoyalMustang]

2 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

What flexibility issues do you think you have?

 

Are you able to do this drill?

 

 

 

 

Yes, but only in partial swings. I've been doing this and a couple of other drills for motor control: it's helped me immensely to know what to feel and where I am in the swing. Unfortunately, I have essentially no flexibility in my lumbar spine so under more load I'm still only able to make a 1/2 swing. If I can't turn to create space then I have to lift. I've been working on my overall spinal flexibility but it all comes from the thoracic, and therefore when I do general back flexiblity motions, the turn comes from the point of least resistance (i.e thoracic spine).

 

This got me thinking a bit more about how I have to improve that lumbar flexiblity specifically if I want to be able to do this on a fuller swing; I can feel the tension in there, even on a 1/2 swing, while my hips and thoractic spine are essentially motion uninhibited. Thanks for posting!   

[GoGoErky]

38 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Yes, but only in partial swings. I've been doing this and a couple of other drills for motor control: it's helped me immensely to know what to feel and where I am in the swing. Unfortunately, I have essentially no flexibility in my lumbar spine so under more load I'm still only able to make a 1/2 swing. If I can't turn to create space then I have to lift. I've been working on my overall spinal flexibility but it all comes from the thoracic, and therefore when I do general back flexiblity motions, the turn comes from the point of least resistance (i.e thoracic spine).

 

This got me thinking a bit more about how I have to improve that lumbar flexiblity specifically if I want to be able to do this on a fuller swing; I can feel the tension in there, even on a 1/2 swing, while my hips and thoractic spine are essentially motion uninhibited. Thanks for posting!   

If you are having thoracic limitations then I would focus on that along with whatever other flexibility/mobility work you do.

 

These are some of my favorites

 

 

 

[Valtiel]

5 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Thanks! I have trouble mimicing that in my swing; it's a flexiblity/rotational issue that I'm working to correct as I'm not able to "turn" the way I want and therefore feel that I have to get my hands "up" to get to the top.

 

2 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

Unfortunately, I have essentially no flexibility in my lumbar spine so under more load I'm still only able to make a 1/2 swing. If I can't turn to create space then I have to lift.

These are things that would be good to know for sure, because although i'm definitely not an expert, i'm not seeing why lumbar flexibility is the limiting factor here:



If this is physically possible then I don't see how your lower back forces you to do this:



All you need to start with is getting your hands on that green line path instead of the straight up in the air orange one, which is literally just moving your hands/arms
 

Quote

But you think that if I can solve this in my backswing, I'll be smoother through and won't need that EE? If so, that's a simple fix assuming I can gain the flexibility needed. 

I think it certainly stands to help, because with your current backswing you would need a very strong almost manufactured shallowing move like Adrian Meronk to NOT come down super steep. You're steep to steep right now, so it stands to reason that flattening your backswing to something more neutral should result in a more neutral downswing as well.

There is also a good chance that this quote....
 

Quote

I'm not able to "turn" the way I want and therefore feel that I have to get my hands "up" to get to the top

....contains some misconceptions or outright "wrong" interpretations, so i'd love to see some drills or rehearsals of what you can and can't do here.

Edited January 9 by Valtiel

[RoyalMustang]

20 hours ago, Valtiel said:

These are things that would be good to know for sure, because although i'm definitely not an expert, i'm not seeing why lumbar flexibility is the limiting factor here:



If this is physically possible then I don't see how your lower back forces you to do this:



All you need to start with is getting your hands on that green line path instead of the straight up in the air orange one, which is literally just moving your hands/arms
 

I think it certainly stands to help, because with your current backswing you would need a very strong almost manufactured shallowing move like Adrian Meronk to NOT come down super steep. You're steep to steep right now, so it stands to reason that flattening your backswing to something more neutral should result in a more neutral downswing as well.

There is also a good chance that this quote....
 

....contains some misconceptions or outright "wrong" interpretations, so i'd love to see some drills or rehearsals of what you can and can't do here.

 

All good things: we did some tests last night (wife is a PT) and she says that although my lumbar is limited compared to thoractic, it's not a hinderance and much better than it was 6 months ago, when I was essentially locked up. I need to learn to utilize my core in the turn.   

 

I spent about 3 hours yesterday working on engaging my right obliques in the backswing and getting to more of a complete turn; moving more slowly to complete the swing. In doing so, I was still focused on the "up and back" move of my right hip. At the top, I really only thought about making sure that left side didn't collapse toward the ball but instead "stayed against the wall" as shown in the "better body action-against the wall" video. This got me turning and stacking on the front rather than sliding forward while also helping to keep my heel down. 

 

1) I'm super sore today. My obliques, back, and front hip aren't used to those forces

2) after about 60 practice balls and 12 practice holes (2-3 balls on each hole) I could really feel and see the differences. The key was not wanting to move forward but rather "up" at the front hip, given that I was turning a bit more round and not as much "up". Pressing forward with the front hip at the top, which is recommended by a lot of coaches, is the wrong move for me as I then start to lose space.

 

I had good birdie chances on 3 of the last 4 holes playing in mid-40's temps with a lot of well-struck shots and drives that were close to summer distance.  The timing just felt better; I had more space and I had more time, as long as I stayed back and up with that front hip after turning better earlier in the swing. My follow through is super short and looks like that of an old person if I keep my heel down, but it didn't seem to affect swing speed. 

 

Thanks for all of the help. I will try to post an updated video when I have it and see how much of a change I've made. 

[jholz]

As a B'more resident, gotta recognize the avatar.

 

I find it offensive, but you know, those of us from Baltimore have to take what we can get. 🙂 

 

 

[RoyalMustang]

19 hours ago, jholz said:

As a B'more resident, gotta recognize the avatar.

 

I find it offensive, but you know, those of us from Baltimore have to take what we can get. 🙂 

 

 

 

Offensive? Why is that? Orioles are my team (huge Adley Rutschman fan-OSU Beav baseball believer here) and Omar is my favorite character on my favorite show. My wife cried the first time we saw him meet his demise. But I've never been to Camden (yet).  

[jholz]

1 hour ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Offensive? Why is that? Orioles are my team (huge Adley Rutschman fan-OSU Beav baseball believer here) and Omar is my favorite character on my favorite show. My wife cried the first time we saw him meet his demise. But I've never been to Camden (yet).  

 

Sorry man. Just trying (and failing, apparently) to be mildly funny and clue you into a few things about Baltimore culture. Mea culpa.

 

Just for the record, Baltimore folks are over David Simon, "The Wire," and Omar. You might do better referencing Lor Scoota or Young Moose - but even those are 5 years out of play. Culture moves quickly and our city is evolving. 

 

Having said that, I do hope you get the chance to see a game at Camden YARDS. They are always a good time. 

 

 

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, jholz said:

 

Sorry man. Just trying (and failing, apparently) to be mildly funny and clue you into a few things about Baltimore culture. Mea culpa.

 

Just for the record, Baltimore folks are over David Simon, "The Wire," and Omar. You might do better referencing Lor Scoota or Young Moose - but even those are 5 years out of play. Culture moves quickly and our city is evolving. 

 

Having said that, I do hope you get the chance to see a game at Camden YARDS. They are always a good time. 

 

 

 

Got it! I love "The Wire"; was a big fan before I started rooting for the Orioles. It was a big deal with Felix Bautista's walk-up last year became Omar's whistle. 

 

I get it though, locals may view the series in a different light than those of us viewing from a distance. Just as the "Sometimes a Great Notion" novel/movie portrays Oregon logging country in a certain light; one that is accurate in my view yet that isn't always flattering.