Vintage set for the coming season - 1977 Ping Karsten IV etc

[ColinKelvin]

Hi all - I put this set together as a fun set to play now and again.  The KIVs (1-SW) are from 1977 and the becu eye 2 lob is 1984.  The woods came free with the irons and may try to find a better set but on the other hand they're worn enough that I can play them without fearing damage. The putter is a 1966 Scottsdale Anser.  I'll need to take a few clubs out obviously; maybe a wood and a couple of long irons.

 

Anyone out there playing old Karstens?

[bcstones]

still have my Eye2's....tho I've regripped them.

[ColinKelvin]

35 minutes ago, bcstones said:

still have my Eye2's....tho I've regripped them.

Yeah, the original grips on these are a bit hard but they are really nice so I'll probably just put up with them after a scrub to try to rejuvenate them a bit!

[Fellaheen51]

8 hours ago, ColinKelvin said:

Hi all - I put this set together as a fun set to play now and again.  The KIVs (1-SW) are from 1977 and the becu eye 2 lob is 1984.  The woods came free with the irons and may try to find a better set but on the other hand they're worn enough that I can play them without fearing damage. The putter is a 1966 Scottsdale Anser.  I'll need to take a few clubs out obviously; maybe a wood and a couple of long irons.

 

Anyone out there playing old Karstens?

 

Nice bag of old school Pings.  The K IV's are not all that common, and look to be in stellar nick.  Weren't they a one early only Model?  I noted your Scottsdale Anser elsewhere.  

 

I have my late Father's set of K I 2 - 9 (missing the W).  According to Ping CS, they had a build date of 7/22/71.  I've taken an odd iron afield on occasion, just to give one a swat.  However, the flattish sole and OG stiff steel shafts are not a good match for my 72 yoa swing.  They were not all that much fun to hit.  Although I hope to pickup a W someday to complete the set

 

Occasionally browse for a KIII or IV set in "players" shape.  The soles on those vintages began to evolve towards the E2 shape.  Irons that I would have no qualms modernizing with more contemporary shafts (Nippon 950 R's on hand) to enhance the playability.  Could round out the bag with already in hand E2 D, 4w (a really nice fairway) and 7w all in VGUC.   BeCu A2 Pat Pend for a putter.    

 

Play Your Best CK.

Edited February 26 by Fellaheen51

[@_the_crook]

26 minutes ago, Fellaheen51 said:

 

Nice bag of old school Pings.  The K IV's are not all that common, and look to be in stellar nick.  Weren't they a one early only Model?  I noted your Scottsdale Anser elsewhere.  

 

I have my late Father's set of K I 2 - 9 (missing the W).  According to Ping CS, they had a build date of 7/22/71.  I've taken an odd iron afield on occasion, just to give one a swat.  However, the flattish sole and OG stiff steel shafts are not a good match for my 72 yoa swing.  They were not all that much fun to hit.  Although I hope to pickup a W someday to complete the set

 

Occasionally browse for a KIII or IV set in "players" shape.  The soles on those vintages began to evolve towards the E2 shape.  Irons that I would have no qualms modernizing with more contemporary shafts (Nippon 950 R's on hand) to enhance the playability.  Could round out the bag with already in hand E2 D, 4w (a really nice fairway) and 7w all in VGUC.   BeCu A2 Pat Pend for a putter.    

 

Play Your Best CK.

Like you, I also have the K I's. still viable - though newer designs brought refinements.

 

I regripped mine with Ping midsize grips - they look good and play well.

 

 

 

[ColinKelvin]

7 hours ago, Fellaheen51 said:

 

Nice bag of old school Pings.  The K IV's are not all that common, and look to be in stellar nick.  Weren't they a one early only Model?  I noted your Scottsdale Anser elsewhere.  

 

I have my late Father's set of K I 2 - 9 (missing the W).  According to Ping CS, they had a build date of 7/22/71.  I've taken an odd iron afield on occasion, just to give one a swat.  However, the flattish sole and OG stiff steel shafts are not a good match for my 72 yoa swing.  They were not all that much fun to hit.  Although I hope to pickup a W someday to complete the set

 

Occasionally browse for a KIII or IV set in "players" shape.  The soles on those vintages began to evolve towards the E2 shape.  Irons that I would have no qualms modernizing with more contemporary shafts (Nippon 950 R's on hand) to enhance the playability.  Could round out the bag with already in hand E2 D, 4w (a really nice fairway) and 7w all in VGUC.   BeCu A2 Pat Pend for a putter.    

 

Play Your Best CK.

 

That's cool to hear you have your father's set of K Is.  I have never hit a KI but I had heard like you said that they have flat soles and sharp leading edges, which were rounded on the II. 

 

And yeah the IVs are the least seen of the 4 iterations (K III seems to have been the best received with the 'Ping rail').  That's not to say the IVs carry much value (they don't) but I am looking forward to trying them.  I asked Ping for details and build spec/date and they added this info:

 

"I found this in one of our internal documents.

Karsten IV: Introduced June 1976

• Right handed

• 17-4 stainless steel

• Similar to Karsten II but sole is more contoured

• Edges softer and more rounded than previous models

• Color code in cavity corner

• 1-9,W,S stamped on back and sole

• Modifications made to Karsten II and this model was discontinued"

Tempted to try them today as it is sunny here - but 39 degrees... brrr. If I really liked them then, like you, I might think about reshafting.

[Shallowface]

20 hours ago, ColinKelvin said:

Yeah, the original grips on these are a bit hard but they are really nice so I'll probably just put up with them after a scrub to try to rejuvenate them a bit!

A light sanding before the scrub might help a bit.  I use 100 grit 3M drywall sandpaper.  Just enough to take off the shine and then scrub with an old firm toothbrush and Ivory soap (don't sand too close to the shaft!).  It often provides remarkable results, but some grips unfortunately are beyond saving.

 

It's been mentioned here before but it's never a crime to change original grips (with the possible exception of leather if it can be rejuvenated).  There's not a classic car out there that still has its original tires.  

[golfunderpar18]

4 hours ago, Shallowface said:

A light sanding before the scrub might help a bit.  I use 100 grit 3M drywall sandpaper.  Just enough to take off the shine and then scrub with an old firm toothbrush and Ivory soap (don't sand too close to the shaft!).  It often provides remarkable results, but some grips unfortunately are beyond saving.

 

It's been mentioned here before but it's never a crime to change original grips (with the possible exception of leather if it can be rejuvenated).  There's not a classic car out there that still has its original tires.  

Definitely not a crime but ping collectors really love the original ping grips if they are in good enough shape to salvage so I’d try to rejuvenate before replacing.   Vintage new old stock ping grips sell for a pretty penny on eBay.  The karsten line of irons can be had pretty cheaply on the resale market.   A good value iron for sure

Edited February 26 by golfunderpar18

[Maine Golfer]

I like it a lot. I got to many sets of irons , but a pre Zing set ill get some day. 

[@_the_crook]

15 hours ago, Shallowface said:

There's not a classic car out there that still has its original tires.  

not to hijack anyone's thread, but do you remember Tiger Paws with the orange/red paw prints on the sidewall?

those would be worth a pretty penny today, assuming in good condition.

 

 

[ColinKelvin]

13 hours ago, golfunderpar18 said:

Definitely not a crime but ping collectors really love the original ping grips if they are in good enough shape to salvage so I’d try to rejuvenate before replacing.   Vintage new old stock ping grips sell for a pretty penny on eBay.  The karsten line of irons can be had pretty cheaply on the resale market.   A good value iron for sure

Spot on - these irons aren't worth much at all but as a Ping collector I love the grips - more for my own aesthetic preference than for value reasons. They are original, and they are also an extremely cool-looking design.

 

I used them yesterday - played 9 holes and the grips were OK; the irons are really playable, moreso than I expected.  The 1-iron was fun to hit! After a couple of weak cuts I leaned into it more and hit some bullets.

[BIG STU]

4 hours ago, @_the_crook said:

not to hijack anyone's thread, but do you remember Tiger Paws with the orange/red paw prints on the sidewall?

those would be worth a pretty penny today, assuming in good condition.

 

 

Actually someone bought the old molds and are reproducing them for the classic collector world (so I have read). But they are still expensive. I know Coker tire reproduces a lot of the old Firestone Tires for vintage cars and trucks

[BIG STU]

On 2/25/2024 at 10:55 AM, ColinKelvin said:

Hi all - I put this set together as a fun set to play now and again.  The KIVs (1-SW) are from 1977 and the becu eye 2 lob is 1984.  The woods came free with the irons and may try to find a better set but on the other hand they're worn enough that I can play them without fearing damage. The putter is a 1966 Scottsdale Anser.  I'll need to take a few clubs out obviously; maybe a wood and a couple of long irons.

 

Anyone out there playing old Karstens?

Even though I am not a dyed in the wool Ping fan I love seeing stuff like this. Especially when you can play and shoot respectable scores with the stuff. Wish my battered back would let me play the steel shafted blades and persimmon on a regular basis. Yep it is cool when you pull up to the bag drop with stuff like that and all of the "latest and greatest" crowd give you funny looks. As far as the grips if they are sorta slick and you want to keep them just wrap them with gauze medical type tape and play them

[ColinKelvin]

3 minutes ago, BIG STU said:

Even though I am not a dyed in the wool Ping fan I love seeing stuff like this. Especially when you can play and shoot respectable scores with the stuff. Wish my battered back would let me play the steel shafted blades and persimmon on a regular basis. Yep it is cool when you pull up to the bag drop with stuff like that and all of the "latest and greatest" crowd give you funny looks. As far as the grips if they are sorta slick and you want to keep them just wrap them with gauze medical type tape and play them

Yeah, it's fun (although I have a pretty bad back too - spinal stenosis, lumbar disc bulge issues etc.).  To be honest, my personal belief is that although driver tech has advanced crazily since the year 2000 iron tech hasn't - other than hot faces and jacked lofts, which are snake oil really.  Or putting it another way - as a bang average 10 handicapper who grew up playing John Letters blades, my scores tend to be pretty similar whether I'm playing these old school 70s irons, my becu Eye 2s, my iBlades, or my Miuras.  They all feel different and they go different yardages with different flights, but my scores depend on a) how often I keep the driver in play and b) my short game sharpness.  Maybe iron tech matters more if you're a very high handicapper who really needs help or a scratch man who needs very precise specs, but not to me - so I can take whatever irons I want out and just enjoy the ride.  I also genuinely don't care if I am clubbing up and taking 2 clubs more than my playing partner due to "retro lofts".

[BIG STU]

20 minutes ago, ColinKelvin said:

Yeah, it's fun (although I have a pretty bad back too - spinal stenosis, lumbar disc bulge issues etc.).  To be honest, my personal belief is that although driver tech has advanced crazily since the year 2000 iron tech hasn't - other than hot faces and jacked lofts, which are snake oil really.  Or putting it another way - as a bang average 10 handicapper who grew up playing John Letters blades, my scores tend to be pretty similar whether I'm playing these old school 70s irons, my becu Eye 2s, my iBlades, or my Miuras.  They all feel different and they go different yardages with different flights, but my scores depend on a) how often I keep the driver in play and b) my short game sharpness.  Maybe iron tech matters more if you're a very high handicapper who really needs help or a scratch man who needs very precise specs, but not to me - so I can take whatever irons I want out and just enjoy the ride.  I also genuinely don't care if I am clubbing up and taking 2 clubs more than my playing partner due to "retro lofts".

When I played the vintage blades all the time I ran into people that did not understand loft. I would tell people playing with me for the first time on a team comp not to club off of me. In reality the more modern irons in my signature set (2014 vintage) are not jacked compared to more modern clubs. Stock specs they are only like 2* stronger than my vintage Mac Blades. Players today only understand distance and only care about distance not plotting a shot into a green. A lot of more modern players IMHO could learn lots stepping back and playing older stuff

[bcstones]

5 hours ago, ColinKelvin said:

my scores depend on a) how often I keep the driver in play and b) my short game sharpness. 

reminds me of Arnold Palmer, when asked to play his clubs (when he began making his own after leaving Wilson) against hickory shafted clubs. Took a bit of time for him to get a hickory set together he was comfortable with...then went out & played Tru-Matics vs hickory shaft. After a round, when asked for his opinion - "A par is a par...w/my clubs I'm on the green in 2 and 2 putt for a par, w/hickory I'm on the green in 3 and 1 putt for par (more or less quoting)" He also said that in playing hickorys, torque comes into play, so you need to slow down swing...

[bcstones]

5 hours ago, BIG STU said:

When I played the vintage blades all the time I ran into people that did not understand loft. I would tell people playing with me for the first time on a team comp not to club off of me. In reality the more modern irons in my signature set (2014 vintage) are not jacked compared to more modern clubs. Stock specs they are only like 2* stronger than my vintage Mac Blades. Players today only understand distance and only care about distance not plotting a shot into a green. A lot of more modern players IMHO could learn lots stepping back and playing older stuff

Thank you...you put it so succinctly....I've irritated a few modern players by calling their new stuff "weaker" - by lowering lofts to increase distance, IMO, weakens the club in terms of placement.

Based on the loft of a '56 - '57 PowerBilt 7 iron at 40* (I'm guessing that the retail line would hold similar lofts), any lessening beyond ~3* would "weaken" not 'strengthen' the play of the game.

[Hickory4ever]

8 hours ago, BIG STU said:

When I played the vintage blades all the time I ran into people that did not understand loft. I would tell people playing with me for the first time on a team comp not to club off of me. In reality the more modern irons in my signature set (2014 vintage) are not jacked compared to more modern clubs. Stock specs they are only like 2* stronger than my vintage Mac Blades. Players today only understand distance and only care about distance not plotting a shot into a green. A lot of more modern players IMHO could learn lots stepping back and playing older stuff

Well said Stu. It is funny around our place because there are several of us that play hickory and classics and most of the regulars ask what are we playing today, an educational moment. We get some good conversations on loft jacking, especially when someone see a two iron in the bag. I also get quizzical looks on a par 3 when a guy sees me pull a six iron from my classical set and he has an eight iron in his hand. After I hit the green, I explain that his club is a six iron in disguise and the reason he has so many extra wedges.

[Maine Golfer]

Its just a series of lofts with numbers 

[BIG STU]

1 hour ago, Hickory4ever said:

Well said Stu. It is funny around our place because there are several of us that play hickory and classics and most of the regulars ask what are we playing today, an educational moment. We get some good conversations on loft jacking, especially when someone see a two iron in the bag. I also get quizzical looks on a par 3 when a guy sees me pull a six iron from my classical set and he has an eight iron in his hand. After I hit the green, I explain that his club is a six iron in disguise and the reason he has so many extra wedges.

At my old course (Indian Wells Garden City SC) a lot of the older members would go on the range when I was hitting to see "WTH I was hitting this time". That was in the scrapyard days when I was finding quite a few clubs and "throwing" together a set to see if I could actually hit them. I drew a lot of curiosity along with statements of I was "touched in the head". Funny thing was in those days I could take a junkpile set and beat most of them. And yes lots could not understand why I was hitting like say a 6 iron where they were hitting an 8 iron. With a modern driver I was outdriving them 20 yards. I do still practice from time to time on the range usually now days hitting one of my graphite shafted Penna drivers. People get curious at the twacck of real persimmon. And some ask why do you mess with that stuff? I tell them because I can still hit it. If not for my back I would play persimmon and steel shafted blades all the time

[Maine Golfer]

"touched in the head" is great blue collar language and yes its been directed @ me. 

[BIG STU]

22 minutes ago, Maine Golfer said:

"touched in the head" is great blue collar language and yes its been directed @ me. 

Well at least I am in good company

[Hickory4ever]

2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Well at least I am in good company

You are in good company. 

[jamiesd]

Lovely looking set up

[Shallowface]

On 2/26/2024 at 1:18 PM, golfunderpar18 said:

Definitely not a crime but ping collectors really love the original ping grips if they are in good enough shape to salvage so I’d try to rejuvenate before replacing.   Vintage new old stock ping grips sell for a pretty penny on eBay.  The karsten line of irons can be had pretty cheaply on the resale market.   A good value iron for sure

Truth is the grips on that set, while they are Ping grips, probably aren't original.  That grip was introduced on the Eye2 clubs sometime in the mid-late 80s.  I do believe KIVs were still available at that point, so it is possible they are original.

 

I never did like that grip.  Only way I can describe it is that it felt thin to me and I never could get them to clean up well even with the sandpaper.  Now, the immediate predecessor, the similar EYE grip with the squares as opposed to the diamonds was an outstanding grip.  I've come across those that will still clean up nicely even after all this time. 

 

The best grip Ping ever made in my opinion was the one they called the TSW for Textured Spiral Wrap.  I believe those were standard on the ISI clubs.  Made from a material similar to the original Danny Edwards Royal grips.  None of those I've ever run across needed anything more than a cleaning with the toothbrush and soap.

 

Be careful with the toothbrush and soap.  One time I was on vacation and wanted to clean a grip before the next round.  While I had brought a toothbrush for just such an emergency, I messed up and ended up using the one I had brought for my teeth.  UGH.       

[golfunderpar18]

48 minutes ago, Shallowface said:

Truth is the grips on that set, while they are Ping grips, probably aren't original.  That grip was introduced on the Eye2 clubs sometime in the mid-late 80s.  I do believe KIVs were still available at that point, so it is possible they are original.

 

I never did like that grip.  Only way I can describe it is that it felt thin to me and I never could get them to clean up well even with the sandpaper.  Now, the immediate predecessor, the similar EYE grip with the squares as opposed to the diamonds was an outstanding grip.  I've come across those that will still clean up nicely even after all this time. 

 

The best grip Ping ever made in my opinion was the one they called the TSW for Textured Spiral Wrap.  I believe those were standard on the ISI clubs.  Made from a material similar to the original Danny Edwards Royal grips.  None of those I've ever run across needed anything more than a cleaning with the toothbrush and soap.

 

Be careful with the toothbrush and soap.  One time I was on vacation and wanted to clean a grip before the next round.  While I had brought a toothbrush for just such an emergency, I messed up and ended up using the one I had brought for my teeth.  UGH.       

What do you think of these ping grips?  I don’t often see ping cord grips.  I have a couple sets plus a matching putter grip

[ColinKelvin]

1 hour ago, Shallowface said:

Truth is the grips on that set, while they are Ping grips, probably aren't original.  That grip was introduced on the Eye2 clubs sometime in the mid-late 80s.  I do believe KIVs were still available at that point, so it is possible they are original.

 

I never did like that grip.  Only way I can describe it is that it felt thin to me and I never could get them to clean up well even with the sandpaper.  Now, the immediate predecessor, the similar EYE grip with the squares as opposed to the diamonds was an outstanding grip.  I've come across those that will still clean up nicely even after all this time. 

 

The best grip Ping ever made in my opinion was the one they called the TSW for Textured Spiral Wrap.  I believe those were standard on the ISI clubs.  Made from a material similar to the original Danny Edwards Royal grips.  None of those I've ever run across needed anything more than a cleaning with the toothbrush and soap.

 

Be careful with the toothbrush and soap.  One time I was on vacation and wanted to clean a grip before the next round.  While I had brought a toothbrush for just such an emergency, I messed up and ended up using the one I had brought for my teeth.  UGH.       

Interesting - they must have been regripped in the 80s or 90s then.  I did wonder why grips from the 70s (the clubs were definitely made in 77) had grips which weren't totally cracked and shot. I usually play midsize GP so yeah, these feel thin but as I love the look of them on this occasional set I will just leave them as is.  The shafts are also in VGC with no pitting at all!

[BIG STU]

On 2/29/2024 at 9:27 AM, golfunderpar18 said:

What do you think of these ping grips?  I don’t often see ping cord grips.  I have a couple sets plus a matching putter grip

Those are like the old GP Tour Wrap Cords---- I actually put a set on my set of Mac Blades back in the day. The guy I was dealing with did not have any GP wraps but he had those and I needed grips for a tournament the next day so I did it. Apologies to the Ping fans out here

[Shallowface]

On 2/29/2024 at 9:27 AM, golfunderpar18 said:

What do you think of these ping grips?  I don’t often see ping cord grips.  I have a couple sets plus a matching putter grip

They look like the Ping version of the old GP Tour Wrap cords from the 90s.  I used those regularly back then.  

 

EDIT:  Sorry, Stu.  I should have read your post before replying.

 

No apologies are necessary for using those on something other than Pings.  The chef Rachael Ray always says use what you have on hand.  It often works for cooking and golf clubs!

Edited March 4 by Shallowface

[Maine Golfer]

Stu and Tiger both sometimes use Ping grips on non ping clubs, touched in the head imo.