Weird question, has anyone used sound deadening tape on irons????

[hammergolf]

Ok, so I’m that guy who is super sensitive to the sound and feel of clubs. I’ve tried, but I just can’t do the hollow/clicky/broken sound that most GI irons make now. However, in my search to replace my Gen4 XPs I found a new set of irons that fit my eye, and perform great, but the mid irons have that awful clicky/broken sound I just can’t deal. Everything else about the irons is REALLY good. Thinking that maybe if I install some sound deadening tape in the cavity of the mid irons it may muffle that cracked/clicky sound. Anyone else ever tried this? 

[AzRoger]

I used Kilmat sound deadening sheets for a pickup truck I used to own that was noisy as hell, appied it to all the door panels and back wall panel, it definitely helped. The back is very sticky so no problem sticking to a club but not sure if will work for what you're trying to do and may look like crap.

[taki27]

Lead tape will increase the swingweight, but it will also deaden the sound a little.  Obviously, 1 strip won’t work miracles but it will help.

[denkea]

If you use lead tape it will be fine but if you use any other tape with the intent to deaden sound or vibration it will be illegal.  

[hammergolf]

1 hour ago, denkea said:

If you use lead tape it will be fine but if you use any other tape with the intent to deaden sound or vibration it will be illegal.  

Interesting, what rule is that? 

[Stuart_G]

19 hours ago, denkea said:

If you use lead tape it will be fine but if you use any other tape with the intent to deaden sound or vibration it will be illegal.  

 

Only if you rely on the normal adhesive of the tape.   Add some super glue or epoxy and you can put almost anything in the cavity w/o having to worry about it being non-conforming.

 

18 hours ago, hammergolf said:

Interesting, what rule is that? 

 

Equipment rule 1.a.    All parts of the club must be fixed so that the club is one unit, and it must have no external attachments.

https://www.usga.org/equipment-standards/equipment-rules-2019/equipment-rules/equipment-rules.html#!ruletype=er&section=rule&partnum=2&rulenum=2

 

There are a few exceptions (like lead tape) but basically anything added to the club head must be attached in a permanent or semi-permanent manner.   And 'normal' tape adhesive is not considered permanent or semi-permanent - so would be considered an "external attachment."

 

[denkea]

I queried the USGA regarding these:

 

https://www.golfworks.com/rubber-tungsten-swingweight-tape/p/gw0054/

 

And their reply was this 

 

[hammergolf]

49 minutes ago, denkea said:

I queried the USGA regarding these:

 

https://www.golfworks.com/rubber-tungsten-swingweight-tape/p/gw0054/

 

And their reply was this 

 

As usual, the USGA is as illogical as ever…. The “adhesive” vibration dampening material used in the cavities of the majority irons by manufacturers is fine, but adding more vibration dampening tape is non conforming. Makes as much sense as a football bat. I mean with the vibration dampening tape I’m sure it will make me hit every iron in the hole… 🤦‍♂️This brings me to another idea. I wonder if I put silicone in the cavities if it would quiet sound and be legal?

Edited May 4 by hammergolf

[hammergolf]

10 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Only if you rely on the normal adhesive of the tape.   Add some super glue or epoxy and you can put almost anything in the cavity w/o having to worry about it being non-conforming.

 

 

Equipment rule 1.a.    All parts of the club must be fixed so that the club is one unit, and it must have no external attachments.

https://www.usga.org/equipment-standards/equipment-rules-2019/equipment-rules/equipment-rules.html#!ruletype=er&section=rule&partnum=2&rulenum=2

 

There are a few exceptions (like lead tape) but basically anything added to the club head must be attached in a permanent or semi-permanent manner.   And 'normal' tape adhesive is not considered permanent or semi-permanent - so would be considered an "external attachment."

 

You think it would be legal to shoot some silicone into the cavity? Wondering if it’s legal and if it would work like hot melt does… 

[st1800e]

1 hour ago, hammergolf said:

You think it would be legal to shoot some silicone into the cavity? Wondering if it’s legal and if it would work like hot melt does… 

Wondering the same, on a set of eye 2+ I partially filled the cavity with silicone to reduce the sound. A noticeable reduction, but not as much as I’d like.  There’s another thread where the undercut cavity was filled with silicone and the author was quite pleased with the reduction.
 

Will be interested on the legality of this.  

[Stuart_G]

15 hours ago, hammergolf said:

You think it would be legal to shoot some silicone into the cavity? Wondering if it’s legal and if it would work like hot melt does… 

 

Not an official answer obviously (email USGA if there is any need to verify) but I'm pretty sure Silicon compound would be considered "semi-permanent" and therefore ok.   Simply put (as I understand it) semi-permanent means it's something you can't remove manually without destroying or damaging the attachment (e.g. so you can't put it back on in a different location or orientation).  To be considered "permanent", (and therefore no longer an attachment) it requires significant manual effort or heat to remove.

 

15 hours ago, hammergolf said:

As usual, the USGA is as illogical as ever….

 

It's actually perfectly logical - once you understand the logic.   

 

1) is it attached to the head in a permanent or semi-permanent manner?

2) is it lead tape?

 

If the answer to both are no, then it's non-conforming.

 

It's not really illegal because it provides dampening - it's illegal because it's tape and it's not a fixed part of the head  - it's not attached in a permanent or semi-permanent manner.     The dampening effect just means it's no longer can be covered under the lead tape exception.     So, as I mentioned before, just use a more permanent adhesive than that supplied on the tape and you'd be fine using it.

 

 

 

Edited May 5 by Stuart_G

[hammergolf]

19 hours ago, st1800e said:

Wondering the same, on a set of eye 2+ I partially filled the cavity with silicone to reduce the sound. A noticeable reduction, but not as much as I’d like.  There’s another thread where the undercut cavity was filled with silicone and the author was quite pleased with the reduction.
 

Will be interested on the legality of this.  

I’m going to go to Lowe’s and buy some silicone caulk and see what happens. I’ll report back.

[st1800e]

8 hours ago, hammergolf said:

I’m going to go to Lowe’s and buy some silicone caulk and see what happens. I’ll report back.

Most silicone seal/caulk is acetic acid based and will attack metal.   Look for “neutral cure” silicone. 
 

 

[bobfoster]

15 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Not an official answer obviously (email USGA if there is any need to verify) but I'm pretty sure Silicon compound would be considered "semi-permanent" and therefore ok.   Simply put (as I understand it) semi-permanent means it's something you can't remove manually without destroying or damaging the attachment (e.g. so you can't put it back on in a different location or orientation).  To be considered "permanent", (and therefore no longer an attachment) it requires significant manual effort or heat to remove.

This is actually a fascinating thread. Let me ask the question from another perspective (not sound dampening). The long end of my bag is the Titleist TSR release. Driver, 3FW, 5FW, Hybrid. Now, they all have replaceable weights. Stock is 9g. But you can buy replacement weights to tune your club. For swing weight purposes, I've added +6g to my Driver, +4g to both FWs, and +2g to my Hybrid. 

 

Now, I completely assume these are legal. But (technically) they are by no means "permanent". In fact, it takes all of a minute (and the SureFit tool) - i.e., no significant manual effort or heat - to swap the weights out. I do know it would not be legal to change in the middle of a round, but ... it takes almost nothing to replace them between rounds. In fact, they are quite deliberately an "attachment" that Titleist actually goes out of its way to make it convenient to change. 

 

I'd be curious to hear your insights on this @Stuart_G (you are seriously one of the true WRX rules gurus). Under what rule or interpretation of a rule is my driver legal?

 

Thx. 

Edited May 6 by bobfoster

[hammergolf]

1 hour ago, bobfoster said:

This is actually a fascinating thread. Let me ask the question from another perspective (not sound dampening). The long end of my bag is the Titleist TSR release. Driver, 3FW, 5FW, Hybrid. Now, they all have replaceable weights. Stock is 9g. But you can buy replacement weights to tune your club. For swing weight purposes, I've added +6g to my Driver, +4g to both FWs, and +2g to my Hybrid. 

 

Now, I completely assume these are legal. But (technically) they are by no means "permanent". In fact, it takes all of a minute (and the SureFit tool) - i.e., no significant manual effort or heat - to swap the weights out. I do know it would not be legal to change in the middle of a round, but ... it takes almost nothing to replace them between rounds. In fact, they are quite deliberately an "attachment" that Titleist actually goes out of its way to make it convenient to change. 

 

I'd be curious to hear your insights on this @Stuart_G (you are seriously one of the true WRX rules gurus). Under what rule or interpretation of a rule is my driver legal?

 

Thx. 

USGA making things clear as mud as usual….

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

I don't see where the lack of clarity exists, myself. The weights require a specific tool to install and remove. One can use any torx wrench of the right size to do it, but brandishing any such tool during a round would be an instant violation. 

That seems to define semi-permanent pretty well. You couldn't just reach down and adjust the weights by hand. They are typically supposed to be installed with blue thread-locker to prevent vibrations from loosening them over time which would mean you'd have to have some pretty serious torx fingers to get them loose.... I mean, maybe some WRXer out there might grind their index finger bone into a torx driver (ouch), but it seems reasonable enough to me for somebody to consider a locked and torqued weight semi-permanent.......

😄 

[Stuart_G]

6 hours ago, Mikey_HACKilroy said:

I don't see where the lack of clarity exists, myself. The weights require a specific tool to install and remove. One can use any torx wrench of the right size to do it, but brandishing any such tool during a round would be an instant violation.

 

I agree.  It's really no different than any other aspect of an adjustable design.  i.e.  using the tool to change loft or lie angle or any of the other screw in weights that have been in around for almost 20 years now.

 

8 hours ago, bobfoster said:

Under what rule or interpretation of a rule is my driver legal?

 

The rules even have a specific section on adjustability.  Equipment rule 1b.   And the interpretations cover many aspects of what's allowed for both the scope and method of adjustment.

 

But the fact that the OEM's submit the design (including all aspects of adjustability) to the USGA/R+A and it's included on the list of conforming designs should be enough to answer that question.   

 

So that's really a different category from attachments added to the head by the players after the design has been submitted and approved.

 

 

7 hours ago, hammergolf said:

USGA making things clear as mud as usual….

 

Sorry for being a bit blunt - don't make a judgment just based on my paraphrasing of the rules.   You might consider actually reading the rules in question before making a determination on how clear (or not) they might be.   It's a lot more extensive than you seem to think it is.

 

the main rule:

b. Adjustability

All clubs may incorporate features for weight adjustment. Other forms of adjustability may also be permitted upon evaluation by The R&A or USGA. The following requirements apply to all permissible methods of adjustment:

(i) the adjustment cannot be readily made;

(ii) all adjustable parts are firmly fixed and there is no reasonable likelihood of them working loose during a round; and

(iii) all configurations of adjustment conform with the Rules.

During a round, a player must not make a stroke with a club when they have deliberately changed that club's playing characteristics by adjustment or by any other means (see Rule 4.1a(3) of the Rules of Golf).

 

And the interpretations expand on that quite a bit

 

b. Adjustability

Interpretation of Rule 1.b

1.b(1) - General

All clubs may be designed to be adjustable for many different characteristics – for example, weight, length, lie and loft. In order to preserve the integrity of Rule 4.1a(3) of the Rules of Golf (“Deliberately” Changing Club’s Performance Characteristics During Round), the Equipment Rules clearly state that it must not be too easy for a player to make adjustments during a round and that the mechanism must be firmly fixed, with little chance of it working loose. All adjustment mechanisms must comply with the following requirements:

• Method of Adjustment

Adjustments must require the use of a special tool, such as an Allen key, a Phillips screwdriver or a custom made device. It must not be possible to make the adjustment just by using the fingers or some other object which would normally be kept in a golfer’s pocket, for example a coin or a pitch-mark repair tool.

• Unusable Unless Locked or Fully Tightened

If, as is often the case, a screw is used to fix the mechanism, the club must, for all practicable purposes, be unusable without the screw being in place and tightly fixed. One exception to this “unusable” requirement is for a long putter with a shaft which dismantles into two shorter lengths for travel purposes. Here, a screw together (“pool cue”) joint is permitted, in combination with an Allen key screw, or similar, which penetrates the threaded section of the joint by at least half way. The existence of both the threaded joint and the fixing screw potentially renders the putter usable, even when the screw is not tightened, or it is left out entirely. It also renders the putter potentially adjustable by hand. However, this exception was introduced as a specific concession for travel clubs

• Friction Fit Mechanisms

Generally, friction fit adjustment mechanisms are not permitted because there is potential for them to be readily adjustable (i.e. the mechanism could be sufficiently tightened such that the club is usable, but not quite enough to prohibit it from being adjustable by hand). However, a friction fit mechanism which can be only locked and unlocked and is fixed in its locked state and unusable in its unlocked state, may be permitted upon evaluation.

• Discrete Steps

A mechanism that allows for an adjustment to be made in discrete steps may be permitted provided all other Equipment Rules and specifications are satisfied. Without the adjustment mechanism locked in place, the club must essentially be unusable.

The above restrictions have been included in the Equipment Rules in order to encourage the player to make all of the necessary adjustments to his or her clubs before starting the round, and to protect the player from either unwittingly or purposely making adjustments during a round.

When assessing the conformity of an adjustable club, it is important to remember the third condition listed in Part 2, Section 1b, and to check that it cannot be adjusted into a position which does not conform to the Equipment Rules. For example, a putter which is adjustable for lie must not be capable of being adjusted into a position where the shaft diverges from the vertical by less than 10 degrees (see Section 1d, below), or any other position which would render the club non-conforming (see Figure 1).

1.b(2) - Adjustability for Weight

All clubs may be designed to be adjustable for weight, provided the adjustment mechanism conforms to the conditions described in Section 1b of the Equipment Rules. Examples of what would and would not be permitted are illustrated in Figure 2.

As noted in Section 1a, with respect to adjustments for weight, the only exception to the conditions described in Section 1b(i) above is the addition or removal of lead tape. This is a practice which pre-dates the introduction of the adjustability rules and is permitted on ‘traditional’ grounds. The addition, removal or alteration of lead tape during a round is not permitted (see Rule 4.1a(3) of the Rules of Golf).

1.b(3) - Adjustability for Length

• All Clubs

All clubs may be adjustable for length, provided the adjustment mechanism conforms to the specifications already described and is consistent with other Equipment Rules.

Integrated mechanisms are permitted, provided the bending and twisting properties of the shaft remain substantially the same and the grip remains conforming. Mechanisms externally attached to the grip are not permitted.

Telescopic Mechanisms that can be fully extended into a locked position for use and collapsed for travel purposes may be permitted. However, the club must not be usable in its collapsed, unlocked state.

• Putters

Non-integrated mechanisms attached to the shaft may be permitted

for putters only, provided that:

• The mechanism is generally circular in cross-section with a maximum cross-sectional dimension of 1 inch and a maximum length of 2 inches;

• If the mechanism is situated between two grips, both grips are non-tapered, the end of the mechanism effectively touches the butt end of the lower grip, the cross-sectional dimension of the mechanism is less than or equal to the maximum cross-sectional dimension of the grips, and the mechanism is at least 1.5 inches in length;

• If the mechanism is situated below a single grip or below the lower grip of a putter with two grips, the top of the mechanism is at least 2 inches from the tip end of the grip. Exception: If the size and shape of the mechanism is consistent with the tip end of the grip or the outer diameter of the mechanism is less than the outer diameter of the grip, the mechanism can effectively touch the tip end of the grip.

1.b(4) - Other Kinds of Adjustability

As previously noted, the adjustability provisions allow all clubs to be designed to be adjustable for many different characteristics – provided all specifications are satisfied. Manufacturers are encouraged, however, to submit all new adjustable design innovations for evaluation in the early stages of development.

 

Edited May 6 by Stuart_G