Caddy Criticism

[StoutKing]

1 hour ago, drbonesvt said:

Jack won many majors with a caddy that was there too “just carry the bag”.  Tiger , Stevie provided it seems more services , one being a bouncer 
 

that said every player is different maybe rors could benefit, maybe he wouldn’t from a looper change 

 

Harry Diamond perspective, he’s been on the bag for seven years , being in and around the tour for seven years I’m sure he’s learned a thing or two , he prob knows more about those courses and Rory’s game than the collective wrx myself included.  So the common consensus floating around that this guy is just some “bud “ I would think after seven years his accrued knowledge and internship is at a bit higher level than the public is giving him
 

but wrx is here bc we all love the game ; from playing , to talking about the tour ,  discussing players and equipment the above is just my opinion and likely varies from others.

 

 

You're not wrong but all people see is Harry = 0 majors in 7 years.

[stinger_gc]

2 hours ago, drbonesvt said:

Jack won many majors with a caddy that was there too “just carry the bag”.  Tiger , Stevie provided it seems more services , one being a bouncer 
 

that said every player is different maybe rors could benefit, maybe he wouldn’t from a looper change 

 

Harry Diamond perspective, he’s been on the bag for seven years , being in and around the tour for seven years I’m sure he’s learned a thing or two , he prob knows more about those courses and Rory’s game than the collective wrx myself included.  So the common consensus floating around that this guy is just some “bud “ I would think after seven years his accrued knowledge and internship is at a bit higher level than the public is giving him
 

but wrx is here bc we all love the game ; from playing , to talking about the tour ,  discussing players and equipment the above is just my opinion and likely varies from others.

 

 

Jack and Tiger are 2 of the strongest golfers mentally. Rory’s just not in the same ballpark

[Pastit]

2 hours ago, ThaiGolfer2 said:

The big mistake by McIlroy/Diamond was hitting the wrong club on the par 3 15th. Fired a 7 iron right through the green and into the shite. Should have hit an 8 onto the front left of the green, 2 putt and onto the next. Totally changed the momentum and piled on the pressure. Up until then he had looked rock solid.

Adrenalin.

[Pastit]

2 hours ago, m d g said:

 

And Red Auerbach never played professional basketball. What's you point?

I would have thought it was rather obvious ! Ta for reply. 

[m d g]

2 hours ago, Pastit said:

I would have thought it was rather obvious ! Ta for reply. 

 

It's the internet machine...one never knows : )

[IndyArcher]

5 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

I agree that the title isn't perhaps the best one, as the failure is on both parties, and Rory is the majority stakeholder as it were, 

 

It is quite possible that I did not frame things well, as I clearly am not a journalist. My point, however, is not to criticize caddies, but quite the opposite: to draw attention to and ponder why people HAVE criticized caddies in a situation such as we saw on Rory’s last few holes at Pinehurst- as though there was something the caddy should have done to alter the decision-making of McIlroy. Also, I was curious to find out from others if there is any sense of consensus regarding the purpose of and limitations to caddies that would be deemed appropriate. That clearly seems to clearly not be the case— not that I truly anticipated that there would or could be on an online forum. 
 

Ultimately, I think that I could easily find myself aligned with the thoughts of @vandyfan et. al. and the idea that maybe we don’t need caddies at all. I think walking is a natural part of the game so I personally would not want to see a highway of electric carts all over the courses. With the advent of electronic trolleys, though, I am not sure that I would oppose a tour in which push carts and small electric carts were used solely to ferry clubs around the course. 

[idrive]

Seems everyone has forgotten about when Stevie was on Adam Scotts bag at the Open and 
Scott hit driver when he should have hit three wood.

 

Where was Stevie, how could he possibly have let Scott hit driver.  Was quite the rage.

[RobS]

The player hits the shots. If the player isn’t asking for an opinion, the caddie shouldn’t offer it and potentially plant doubt in a players head when they’re preparing to hit a shot. Rory hitting driver on 18 isn’t Mito hitting driver on 18 at the PGA. Mito had 0 tour wins, was in major contention for the first time and had a water hazard in play. Rory is future hall of famer who happens to be the best driver of the golf ball on tour. He just didn’t execute. Who’s to say he would have hit a better shot with the 3w?  He made 496 straight putts inside 3’ prior to pulling the putt on 16. The putt on 18 was a mess. These aren’t caddie issues. The most highly regarded caddies in the history of the game have had great players fail to come through, many times. If caddie engagement had a correlation with major wins, Spieth and Mickelson would have double digits. 

[Damo75]

On 6/19/2024 at 2:36 AM, IndyArcher said:

So once again, following the apparent slide of Rory over the last 3 holes or so at the US Open, I've seen several posts criticizing his choice of caddy. Then there is the famous break-up of Thomas/Bones, Tiger/Williams several years ago, et. al. I know that different caddies bring different things to the table. For Scheffler, it seems to me that he doesn't rely as much on playing advice from Ted as he does just helping keep his head in the game. Other caddies, however, lay on the green or help line up the putts, and spend enormous amounts of time/energy actually getting the golfer ready for a hit. 

 

So with that in mind...

 

1) Is it appropriate to blame a caddy for failures like Rory experienced on Sunday or is that solely on the pro player?

 

2) What is an appropriate expectation of help for a caddy to provide at a pro level tournament? What is consistent across the board and what is just on an as-needed basis? Or is it all just personal preference?

1) Blame?  No.   But could a caddy maybe have contributed to some decision making more in the last 4 holes (assuming he didn't)?  Possibly, maybe even probably and particularly on club selection on 15 and 18.

 

2) Entirely dependent on the individual/s I'd say.

[Damo75]

On 6/19/2024 at 10:12 AM, dalehead said:

Exactly. A caddy like Steve Williams, Joe LaCava, or Ted Scott would have snapped the shaft on Rory’s driver rather than let him hit it on 18 on Sunday.

I don't know.  LaCava might have given him driver on 15 and 17! 😜

[Pastit]

6 hours ago, m d g said:

 

It's the internet machine...one never knows : )

OK, just to confirm that these commentators of TV have no experience of picking up a Major trophy so they don’t speak from actual experience. Paul McGinley can talk with authority about Ryder Cup and ET event pressure. 

[golferdude54]

Why do we even have caddies in this era of golf? The class disparity between the private CC members and caddies in the late 19th and early 20th century was a completely different world, they were literally servants. Now it just looks too weird now. 

[ChipNRun]

23 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Rory was 48/48 inside 4 feet that week until 16.  From 70-72nd holes he was 1/3 when history was on the line.  Making short putts is all on the player especially when caddy is not called on to read the break.

 

On the final hole, it appears that Rory had a right-hand flip release on the missed putt. A firm, left-hand lead would have been more reliable. This goes back to my earlier suggestion that fatigue was getting to him on final nine.

 

Despite Rory's catastrophic warning on Sunday No. 18, I twitched a right-hand flip from five feet on No. 18 green in my Monday round. The resulting three-putt didn't cost me the US Open, but it did prevent me from breaking 90.☹️

[gato_plomo]

If only he had a caddie to remind him to make that putt on 16 or not chip above the pin. 

[Santiago Golf]

On 6/19/2024 at 7:40 PM, idrive said:

Seems everyone has forgotten about when Stevie was on Adam Scotts bag at the Open and 
Scott hit driver when he should have hit three wood.

 

Where was Stevie, how could he possibly have let Scott hit driver.  Was quite the rage.

 

other way around ... he hit 3 wood into the bunker, could have hit driver past the bunker ... same same

[Barfolomew]

I would find a caddy that was the best green reader in the world.... in the world. 

 

But they would have to be able to crack jokes and be a smart a** cause what a great circus of material with everyone being so serious lol 😂