Worth getting fit for irons: 6ft height, 36.5" wrist to floor, 5'7" wingspan, bogey golf.

[DarkoDannie]

Hi all,

 

I've been playing fairly consistently for the last year and have managed to get to around bogey golf (at or a tad over through 18, but have gone under bogey golf when I have played 9 only). I like most beginners fought a slice, which i battled to a fade while still OTT. I have reduced the OTT tendency and can get a nice draw but deal with pull hooks as I can over close the face a little (though having learnt to do so now I am working on rotating through the ball properly).

 

After recently losing my 8i, and seeing that the cost to replace is more than twice per club than I paid (not in the US, out of manufacturing), I have toyed with the idea of getting fit for irons, but am not sure if my skill level warrants it.

 

I however have just realised I do have quite strange static body measurements, short legs, short arms, small hands and long torso. The ping colour chart suggests I might benefit from an upright lie and slightly extended shafts but I realise this is outdated.

 

I was mostly just looking for a sanity check of whether it is worth it or not, or whether my body measurements aren't really that out of whack. I am also slightly concerned that the upright lie angle may increase my pull hook tendency. But i am wondering how much a lack of fitting has formed bad habits (e.g., i often feel over bent over at address, and am much more comfortable standing what feels like upright, but is actually more inline with tour posture angles). Either way, after lurking for a year I would appreciate any guidance if anyone has any! 

[Stuart_G]

6 hours ago, DarkoDannie said:

I have toyed with the idea of getting fit for irons, but am not sure if my skill level warrants it.

 

This is one of the biggest myths or misconceptions about fitting.   In general a high/mid cap will have the potential to benefit from a fitting much more than a low handicapper will.   People frequently mis-interpret inconsistent results with an inconsistent swing and that's just not true.   Sure if one is a rank beginner HC > 30 - it might be best to wait a bit to develop the swing more - assuming the clubs aren't a horrible fit.   But once the HC gets the mid-20's - your skill level is not a hindrance to getting fit.   The low handicap players tend to gravitate toward good (or at least decent) fitting equipment automatically on their own.   A good fitter might help them tweak numbers but rarely are they going to see significant improvements.

 

Of course that assumes the fitter actually knows what they are doing - which can be very hard to find.  Lots of people out there calling themselves a "fitter" which don't really deserve the term and are really just self-glorified sales people.   [/rant]

 

Just keep in mind that the benefits of a fitting is really going to be more a factor of how bad a fit your current equipment might be than anything else.  It is possible that people can stumble into good fitting equipment without the help of a fitter.  

 

6 hours ago, DarkoDannie said:

But i am wondering how much a lack of fitting has formed bad habits (e.g., i often feel over bent over at address, and am much more comfortable standing what feels like upright, but is actually more inline with tour posture angles).

 

Good question and no easy answer - it's certainly possible but probably not as much as you'd think.   Especially since our own judgment of our swing and what we think we should be doing or what we feel is way too biased to trust.    Good and bad fitting equipment is more about how severe the consequences of swing flaws might be than actually causing them.  Except maybe in the younger or weaker players where too heavy (total weight or swing weight) can frequently cause swing flaws to be introduced to compensate for a lack of strength to be able to make the proper move.

 

Two biggest things IMO are weight and grip size.   Shaft weight and swing weight can mess with tempo and timing a bit and allow you to stray from what might be a more natural sense of timing.  Or effect our ability to feel what the club is doing in the back swing and transition - or even effect how and when we put "effort"  into the swing (sequencing).  A poor fit for grip size can cause excessive tension in the forearm and wrist - and that can cause problems with the swing as well.

 

As for the rest: Shaft stiffness is more a learned preference than something that might be directly controlling the swing for some people.  For many it's just doesn't have a big effect on the swing - but there are clear exceptions.   Lie angles within a couple degrees isn't going to hurt much in a way that can't be easily fixed since it adds a fairly consistent (and not very large) directional error.    Too short might make things more difficult in the wedges with poor lower body action or posture - but it wont cause those problems.  Similarly too long can amplify the negative consequences of swing flaws but generally wont cause them as well.

 

Edited July 17 by Stuart_G

[ShortGolfer]

14 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Too biggest things IMO are weight and grip size.   Shaft weight and swing weight can mess with tempo and timing a bit and allow you to stray from what might be a more natural sense of timing.  Or effect our ability to feel what the club is doing in the back swing and transition - or even effect how and when we put "effort"  into the swing (sequencing).  A poor fit for grip size can cause excessive tension in the forearm and wrist - and that can cause problems with the swing as well.

I was able to drive to a nearby used golf store and pick a 7 iron that felt good in my hands.  I looked for a grip I liked and a club of the proper weight.

 

The swing I used as  kid was so bad I knew I had to scrap it and start all over from scratch!

That may have been a blessing in disguise as I didn't keep any bad habits!

Edited July 17 by ShortGolfer

[Stuart_G]

54 minutes ago, ShortGolfer said:

I was able to drive to a nearby used golf store and pick a 7 iron that felt good in my hands.  I looked for a grip I liked and a club of the proper weight.

 

Now finding a club that "feels good" is certainly not a bad starting point and one should pay attention to whether something feels good or bad.   But unless one has a decent amount of experience trying out different shaft weights and stiffness profiles as a basis for comparison, feel isn't necessarily a reliable indicator of a best fit.    It can mean it's a good fit but it can also just mean it feels familiar - a feel you're used to and are expecting.   It still might be possible to find something that either feels even better or just performs better.

Edited July 17 by Stuart_G

[ShortGolfer]

That is the "chicken and egg" problem of being a beginner in golf.  When do you get properly fitted for clubs when you are just getting started?

I was at Club Champion when I heard a fitter flat out tell a new golfer she wasn't ready for a fitting but he worked with her for the allotted time to help her out.

 

A fitting helped me sort out my driver swing.  I had a club made just for me! 41 inches long as I'm only 5' 2" and have an upright swing!

 

It helped a great deal to learn what clubs should and shouldn't feel like, one after the other.

I'm not sure an instructor can help with that.

Edited July 17 by ShortGolfer

[tatertot]

If you can't consistently hit the same part of the clubface, you shouldn't be fitted. 

 

If you're always missing on the toe ... or the heel ... or you're hitting the center but get an unwanted shot shape, a fitting will help.

 

If you can't swing the same swing over and over, it won't help.

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, ShortGolfer said:

That is the "chicken and egg" problem of being a beginner in golf.  When do you get properly fitted for clubs when you are just getting started?

 

For the beginners the main point of a fitting would be to make sure the equipment is not getting in the way of them learning the swing.   Simply put:  good grip size, and not too long, not too short, not too heavy, not too light.   The rest is relatively unimportant at that level.

 

Grip size and a starting playing length (for irons) can be determined from the size of the individual (e.g. WTF).  And physicality (strength general athleticism) can give a decent starting point for shaft weight and swing weight and flex.    Then hybrid, woods and drivers should automatically be cut down significantly from stock playing lengths.   And they'd be good to get started.

 

[Stuart_G]

17 minutes ago, tatertot said:

If you can't consistently hit the same part of the clubface, you shouldn't be fitted.

 

The experts disagree.

 

 

[tatertot]

7 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

The experts disagree.

 

 

How many of the "experts" make money off fitting or selling new clubs?

Edited July 17 by tatertot

[Stuart_G]

 

12 minutes ago, tatertot said:

The very first post says ...

 

"- Mark the ball with a dot, facing sweet spot at address

- Hit a few balls and look for impact marks

- Against the heel side - Shaft is too long

- All over the face - Shaft is too long (might be to low head weight)

- Out against the toe mostly - Shaft is to short*

- IDEAL impact spot more than 70 %, about maximum club length (within 3/4 of an inch large circle of IDEAL spot)

- Ideal impact spot is the upper toe side part of that marked with a SMILEY"

 

If your impact marks are all over the clubface, a fitting isn't going to help you. 

 

Looks to me like that is addressed as well.

 

Don't get me wrong - club specs can only do so much - but they certainly can help in many cases - especially with the ridiculously long stock playing lengths put out today by the OEM's.

 

Even in irons.  Go find a club that has a crazy light or crazy heavy shaft compared to your normal clubs and see what happens to your face impact pattern and consistency.  Or load the head with a lot of lead tape.

Edited July 17 by Stuart_G

[tatertot]

2 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

 

Looks to me like that is addressed as well.

 

Don't get me wrong - club specs can only do so much - but they certainly can help in many cases - especially with the ridiculously long stock playing lengths put out today by the OEM's.

I saw that, and edited my post ... and I agree, OEM clubs are too long. I also agree with "club specs can only so much."

[ShortGolfer]

The fitting confirmed that I could easily run into issues with a club being too heavy.  

Never found a club that was too light, even after removing all the weights or cutting a driver down to 41 inches!

[powermatt99]

I am a similar-level player to the OP and recently had a fitting. I am glad I did it, even if only to eliminate equipment as a variable as I continue to practice and hopefully improve. Some of the changes didn't make sense to make at the time (ie changing shafts on 20-year old irons) but I had the lie angle changed on my irons and wedges (forged, so easy change) and changed from standard to mid-size grips (mine were in need of a change anyway). I was already in the market for new woods so I was able to purchase those based on the fitting data.

 

I communicated to the fitter what I was looking for and he accomodated without any pressure to purchase anything new from him. This made the experience much less stressful than some of the stories I've heard about fittings.

[Pepperturbo]

I wouldn't tie the cost of fitting to level of play or body size.  IMO it's tied to your golf goals and commitment to improve.  However, if you chose a fitting, listen to what you're told and whatever clubs you go with, commit to them for an extended period to see the benefit.  It won't likely be overnight magic.

[ShortGolfer]

22 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

I wouldn't tie the cost of fitting to level of play or body size.  IMO it's tied to your golf goals and commitment to improve.  However, if you chose a fitting, listen to what you're told and whatever clubs you go with, commit to them for an extended period to see the benefit.  It won't likely be overnight magic.

I was able to go home and adjust a driver based on what I learned in my fitting.  

 

Then I started cutting down my ladies clubs by an inch, which is basically ladies petite.  Certainly noticed the difference.

 

Finally I got my new clubs.  With the irons I could now hit and hold the  tiny executive course greens from a 100 yardsl 

With my old irons the balls would bounce off the greens and I'd have to chip back onto the greens.  I just assumed that was normal.

I told the fitter I didn't care about distance but wanted my approach shots to hold the greens so he found a shaft and head with a steeper descent angle.

Had a bunch of birdie chances but didn't make any of them.

 

The next year I switched to a urethane balls and finally began to sink birdie putts on short Par 3s with small greens.

 

This year I busy working on short game.  Pitching the ball from all sorts of lies within 40 yards of the pin.

[Howard_Jones]

3 hours ago, tatertot said:

If you can't consistently hit the same part of the clubface, you shouldn't be fitted. 

 

If you're always missing on the toe ... or the heel ... or you're hitting the center but get an unwanted shot shape, a fitting will help.

 

If you can't swing the same swing over and over, it won't help.

Did it ever crossed your mind, that club specs matters for how the player swing the club, and by that impact quality?