Is ESC used in match play?

[abefroeman]

Guy I played with in a casual match play carded a lower score than he shot due to ESC. He even picked up his ball when he was above the ESC number.

 

I thought it was only supposed to be used to adjust the number you report to the USGA for handicap purposes, not for competition.

 

What gives?

 

 

http://www.usga.org/questions/faqs/handica...er.asp?FAQidx=9

[KevCarter]

Guy I played with in a casual match play carded a lower score than he shot due to ESC. He even picked up his ball when he was above the ESC number.

 

I thought it was only supposed to be used to adjust the number you report to the USGA for handicap purposes, not for competition.

 

What gives?

 

 

http://www.usga.org/questions/faqs/handica...er.asp?FAQidx=9

 

You are correct.

 

Kevin

[finalist]

you are correct.

 

My club only uses ESC for the holes that are not finished when the match is over before compelteing 18 holes. Just to have a full number to post as a "T" score.

 

example.... match is over at hole 15. Holes 16, 17, 18 are scored by ESC. We can finish our round, but can't post anything higher than ESC for holes 16,17, and 18.

[limpwrist]

you are correct.

 

My club only uses ESC for the holes that are not finished when the match is over before compelteing 18 holes. Just to have a full number to post as a "T" score.

 

example.... match is over at hole 15. Holes 16, 17, 18 are scored by ESC. We can finish our round, but can't post anything higher than ESC for holes 16,17, and 18.

 

You can't post anything for handicap purposes higher than ESC regardless of whether you finished the round or not. If you don't finish the round, the score posted for the remaining holes should be calculated based on your course handicap and the hole rating. For example, say that 16 is rated the number 2 most difficult hole on the course, 17 is the 10th and 18 is the 16th in your scenario and the player has a course handicap of 10. Assuming he didn't actually finish his round, he should post a bogey for those holes where he would normally get a stroke and a par for the holes he wouldn't get a stroke. That means his scores for the last three holes should be recorded as 16 - bogey, 17 - bogey and 18 - par. Of course, if he did finish the round, he should post his actual scores up to the ESC maximum.

 

The ESC has no bearing on the competition. If your ESC max is a double bogey and you shoot a triple, you take a triple for purposes of determining who wins the hole in competition, but post a double for handicap purposes. If your opponent wins the hole before you hole out, you should post the score that you would most likely make from your position up to your ESC max. For instance, if you are on the green, you should assume that you will two-putt depending on how close you are to the hole and your putting abilities vs. the difficulty of the putt. If your laying 100 yards out on a par-4 and hitting your fifth shot, you should assume that you would get it on the green with the next shot and two-putt for a 7 (assuming your not a single digit handicap, in which case you would post a 6 as that would be your ESC max).

[AirTime23]

Funny stuff....with the german handicap system match play rounds aren't even considered for handicap purposes...with the conceded putts and all. ;-)

[HackerD]

limpwrist gave a good description, and I think even conceded holes are scored (for handicap purposes) as he described.

 

From USGA.org:

"If a player does not finish a hole or is conceded a stroke, record the most likely score for handicap purposes. A most likely score is the number of strokes already taken, plus in the player's best judgment, the number of strokes needed to complete the hole from that point more than half the time."

 

Thus concession of a 30' putt would be scored as 2 + total strokes before the putt for handicap purposes. (I wonder how many people actually do this.)

[jmmsports]

limpwrist gave a good description, and I think even conceded holes are scored (for handicap purposes) as he described.

 

From USGA.org:

"If a player does not finish a hole or is conceded a stroke, record the most likely score for handicap purposes. A most likely score is the number of strokes already taken, plus in the player's best judgment, the number of strokes needed to complete the hole from that point more than half the time."

 

Thus concession of a 30' putt would be scored as 2 + total strokes before the putt for handicap purposes. (I wonder how many people actually do this.)

 

I wonder how many people realize they are hurting themselves by posting that as a one putt?

[jaskanski]

Here in the UK, we have no such thing as ESC. There is no legislation in the rules of golf for handicaps. Handicaps mean even less in matchplay where it is the players responsibility to determine the strokes given before the match commences. There is no penalty for playing off the wrong handicap in matchplay( see notes on rule 6-2).Why is it that the USGA want to stick their beaks into handicaps anyway?

[larrybud]

Why wouldn't the USGA be involved in handicapping? If not them, who should determine the formula for calculating handicaps?

[JeffreySpicoli]

There is no legislation in the rules of golf for handicaps.

 

Huh? Both the R&A Rules & the USGA Rules discuss handicap.

 

Handicaps mean even less in matchplay where it is the players responsibility to determine the strokes given before the match commences. There is no penalty for playing off the wrong handicap in matchplay( see notes on rule 6-2).

 

Huh? The R&A Rules are the same as the USGA Rules for Section 6-2. Aren't the Decisions the same also? And if a player declares a handicap higher than what he/she actually holds, then that player is disqualified.

 

Why is it that the USGA want to stick their beaks into handicaps anyway?

 

Now what's your point here? That the R&A is somehow purer than the USGA on this issue? I'd be interested to see how you attempt to make this case. I don't see how the fact that the R&A doesn't administer handicaps makes enough of a difference upon which to launch a criticism of the USGA.

[jaskanski]

There is no legislation in the rules of golf for handicaps.

 

Huh? Both the R&A Rules & the USGA Rules discuss handicap.

 

Handicaps mean even less in matchplay where it is the players responsibility to determine the strokes given before the match commences. There is no penalty for playing off the wrong handicap in matchplay( see notes on rule 6-2).

 

Huh? The R&A Rules are the same as the USGA Rules for Section 6-2. Aren't the Decisions the same also? And if a player declares a handicap higher than what he/she actually holds, then that player is disqualified.

 

Why is it that the USGA want to stick their beaks into handicaps anyway?

 

Now what's your point here? That the R&A is somehow purer than the USGA on this issue? I'd be interested to see how you attempt to make this case. I don't see how the fact that the R&A doesn't administer handicaps makes enough of a difference upon which to launch a criticism of the USGA.

Assuming you can read, you can see that in matchplay it is the players responsibility to determine handicaps BEFORE the start of a match. If both players have agreed to their respective handicaps, however wrong they may be, the match result will stand on that basis.

Yes, the R&A IS purer than the USGA in that they don't have to go and invent criteria to compensate for poor play on different courses. Why don't they blame the temperature of the grass as well? The R&A prefer to avoid such things as handicaps which are completely unenforceable and which are, in the most case, incorrect. Don't try to get on my case about it. Write to the USGA - they love paperwork.

[JeffreySpicoli]

Assuming you can read, you can see that in matchplay it is the players responsibility to determine handicaps BEFORE the start of a match. If both players have agreed to their respective handicaps, however wrong they may be, the match result will stand on that basis.

Yes, the R&A IS purer than the USGA in that they don't have to go and invent criteria to compensate for poor play on different courses. Why don't they blame the temperature of the grass as well? The R&A prefer to avoid such things as handicaps which are completely unenforceable and which are, in the most case, incorrect. Don't try to get on my case about it. Write to the USGA - they love paperwork.

 

Assuming I can read? You aren't even making any sense! Keep the entertainment coming.

 

Edit: And to prove it, here's Rules section 6-2a for both the R&A and the USGA . . .

 

Before starting a match in a handicap competition, the players should determine from one another their respective handicaps. If a player begins a match having declared a handicap higher than that to which he is entitled and this affects the number of strokes given or received, he is disqualified; otherwise, the player must play off the declared handicap.

 

Now don't go about making silly claims about my ability to read when you're in the situation you're now in.

[jaskanski]

Assuming you can read, you can see that in matchplay it is the players responsibility to determine handicaps BEFORE the start of a match. If both players have agreed to their respective handicaps, however wrong they may be, the match result will stand on that basis.

Yes, the R&A IS purer than the USGA in that they don't have to go and invent criteria to compensate for poor play on different courses. Why don't they blame the temperature of the grass as well? The R&A prefer to avoid such things as handicaps which are completely unenforceable and which are, in the most case, incorrect. Don't try to get on my case about it. Write to the USGA - they love paperwork.

 

Assuming I can read? You aren't even making any sense! Keep the entertainment coming.

 

Edit: And to prove it, here's Rules section 6-2a for both the R&A and the USGA . . .

 

Before starting a match in a handicap competition, the players should determine from one another their respective handicaps. If a player begins a match having declared a handicap higher than that to which he is entitled and this affects the number of strokes given or received, he is disqualified; otherwise, the player must play off the declared handicap.

 

Now don't go about making silly claims about my ability to read when you're in the situation you're now in.

...which doesn't apply to MATCHPLAY...the point in question.

[JeffreySpicoli]

...which doesn't apply to MATCHPLAY...the point in question.

 

I guess you're fully committed to keep up with the entertainment.

 

So . . .

 

Please explain how rule 6-2a applies to matchs but not match play.

[KevCarter]

Holy smokes, are Matt & I reading a different book than jaskanski?

 

Kevin

 

6-2. Handicap

 

a. Match Play

 

Before starting a match in a handicap competition, the players should determine from one another their respective handicaps. If a player begins a match having declared a handicap higher than that to which he is entitled and this affects the number of strokes given or received, he is disqualified; otherwise, the player must play off the declared handicap.