Hogan's Secret...what is it? what is it not? (Hogan Threads Merged)

[iteachgolf]

He is talking about how well Hogan gets to his left side and how his pelvis is even with or in front of his ankle. This picture of one of my swings would be almost were Hogan was but further than the Sevam photo he posted. By getting to you left pivot point you can rotate faster and go more left.

 

[rok78]

Poke

"Both moves are Hoganesque, Sevam1 appears to have more lateral movement, where Slice's students seem to have less, but not perfectly Hogan."

 

I don't think so...the biggest difference is slices students come into impact with extreme leverage (like hogan)..have somewhat similar impact alignments..We've already put the Sevam looking like hogan thing to rest.

 

 

Poke here are 2 pictures to view...big difference ...Should I believe that the feet screwing is Hogan's secret..Or should I look elsewhere for the secret

 

 

Well to be honest a frame by frame would show you how wrong you are about every single point of reference you just brought up but I will refrain from posting up the sequences and many differences. The point I was trying to allude to was how far Mr Hogan gets his belt buckle forward even past his left ankle...BTW That was a 5 Iron swing of Mr Hogan...amazing how far he gets on the left side

Would love to see your frame by frame analysis. Agree with belt buckle observation.

 

 

Might open your eyes up

 

 

Ok,

I am ready to have my eyes opened. I am eagerly awaiting your side by side analysis. Please add a third picture of Moe Norman to the comparison if you would. If I recall Sevam never said he swung just like Hogan, he said he swung like a Moe Norman/Hogan/ hybrid of sorts. I think he certainly does, and Yes both Ben and Moe advocated using the right foot . So please get to work on your analysis..

 

 

About the right foot and Sevam's calling it the secret. In Ben Hogans Power Golf, on page 26 and 27 you will find that Ben talks about the Right foot..I will quote it...

 

" When Playing a tee shot, a fairway wood shot or a long iron shot I get a little something extra into it by the manner in which I utilize my right foot. Some say that I dig my right toe in when hitting tee shot, but that description isn't correct because it isn't my toe I dig into the ground.

 

At address for the above-mentioned shots I dig in with the cleats on the inside edge of the sole of my right shoe. This gives me a feeling of solidity to hit from and as a result I get more distance by giving a little shove with my right foot as the club approaches the ball.

 

Yet I don't dig in so solidly that my foot is ever locked to the ground. Nor does my "digging in" interfere with the proper motion of the feet and the shifting of my weight during the swing. Maybe it will take you a little time to get into the use of the little wrinkle I have described above, but it is the little variations which give me my extra power"

 

Right there in Power Golf on page 26-27.

 

Right foot can't be the secret if Hogan told it in Power Golf, because the point of it being THE secret was that he never mentioned it. Only that it was easy to see if you knew where to look.

 

Eight did a pretty good side by side analysis in the older thread that got locked up. The pivots didn't match up in angles and tilts. Also, no one is saying Sevam's move won't help and won't work for some people, just that it's not Hogan's Secret. Sevam's move is a good feel, will especially help those who sway.

[Dariusz J.]

How about this guy? :secret:

 

front

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDiwpfQ6OvQ

 

back

 

top

 

It has been discussed ad nauseum here. This is a decent attempt but contains a few important mistakes...even if it is an animation only.

 

Cheers

[Poke]

It wasn't my intention to get into a is Sevam1 Hogan debate, my intention was to correct Frank's mischaracterization of Mike's move. If it's going to be dissected and discarded, at least be intellectually honest enough to treat it in whole. If I'm wrong, I'm happy to stand corrected.

 

This I do know, Sevam1 explained Hogan's swing in a unique way that made it understandable to a whole lot of people and in the process helped their games. Look at the pictures: he does get to here in good (yes, not perfect) shape (pictures lifted from the original thread):

 

 

 

Now, from there does he throw away some leverage and go more down the line? Yes, he is by his own admission out of shape and under practiced. Should that invalidate his theory, no. Slice was upset that people on the forum were analyzing his swing for the very same reasons.

 

Before the above taken out of context or misunderstood. I think the world of Slice and Dan's work and in no way wish to have my posts diminish their importance to WRX or their students. Sh__, a good bit of the progress I've made with my own game can be directly attributed to them.

Enjoying the Journey,

Poke

[JOEGOLFWRX]

in fairness to eightiron there is nothing wrong with a devil's advocate, as long as everyone remains civil he is contributing, although the fine line of civility is even finery in this topic, the moderators are watching :scare2: .

 

hogan wrote the fundamentals of golf, he later wanted to write a magnum opus instruction book that 'will confuse a lot of people' . so he saw himself as a teacher of golf to some extent, as a result, i believe a lot of the insider information explanations of hogans secret may have been hogan helping these so called insiders with there own particular swing flaws, flaws which stood out like a sore thumb to hogan. he gives a tip, they think he gave the secret. he gave a secret alright, thats if you consider some of his yet to be published instructions secrets, but i dont think he gave any of them the secret, he was trying to get $100,000 for that, why would he give it away, given what we know about his upbringing. IMHO this explains why some of the insider secret hawkers have differing opinions on the secret. (i dont put sevam1 in this category, he is an insider of moe, not hogan)

 

just a thought, seems like a likely explanation, so it shouldnt be ruled out.

[juansky]

One thing that can be seen in Hogan's swing is how he pulls the right elbow to his side which looks like the hands drop, similar to Sergio's swing but not to the same degree. Sergio has a huge drop compared to Hogan. But it's very visible, now whether it's the secret or not, that's up for discussion too. If the secret had to do with interior muscle movements or something as subtle as more torque in one of his feet, well, that is obviously hard to see. The most visual moves that Hogan used that could be the secret IMO, would be the

 

A) Cupped/bowing of the wrists

 

B) The right elbow close to the side of the body

 

C) The bent right elbow at impact

 

D) The hard rotation of the pivot over the left leg finishing left

 

E) The posting up against the left leg

 

F) The movement of the lower body that seems to govern the whole of the swing with the same uninterrupted rhythm no matter what club you put in his hand.

 

Those are very visible "if you know where to look," that quotation is the monkey wrench in the whole secret. Where would you look?

[PurePursuit]

Now thats a pretty good post Juansky..sure i've seen it before but I like it..Some solid things to examine. Even though I've been a fly on the wall for the discussion of all of those topics lol.

[JD3]

It wasn't my intention to get into a is Sevam1 Hogan debate, my intention was to correct Frank's mischaracterization of Mike's move. If it's going to be dissected and discarded, at least be intellectually honest enough to treat it in whole. If I'm wrong, I'm happy to stand corrected.

 

This I do know, Sevam1 explained Hogan's swing in a unique way that made it understandable to a whole lot of people and in the process helped their games. Look at the pictures: he does get to here in good (yes, not perfect) shape (pictures lifted from the original thread):

 

 

 

Now, from there does he throw away some leverage and go more down the line? Yes, he is by his own admission out of shape and under practiced. Should that invalidate his theory, no. Slice was upset that people on the forum were analyzing his swing for the very same reasons.

 

Before the above taken out of context or misunderstood. I think the world of Slice and Dan's work and in no way wish to have my posts diminish their importance to WRX or their students. Sh__, a good bit of the progress I've made with my own game can be directly attributed to them.

Enjoying the Journey,

Poke

Excellent post, bravo :clapping:

[Siteseer2]

Here's a drill I use in an effort to assimilate some of what I "thought" was Hogan's move (secret or not), and I'd like comment. Shut the club face at address-- close it a good, like 2-3 degrees so its really shut, and from there supinate the left forearm coming down early (like immediately from the top). If you make a strong enough pivot and swing left far enough (the FEEL being, your trying to cut the ball), the ball goes pretty straight... The principle I was trying to test is: if you take the 'crossover' out of the equation by having the supination EARLY, and make a strong enough pivot on the left leg with a left path/clubhead the ball reacts nicely in terms of flight and path and goes pretty straight. WHY?

[TheWoat]

Here's a drill I use in an effort to assimilate some of what I "thought" was Hogan's move (secret or not), and I'd like comment. Shut the club face at address-- close it a good, like 2-3 degrees so its really shut, and from there supinate the left forearm coming down early (like immediately from the top). If you make a strong enough pivot and swing left far enough (the FEEL being, your trying to cut the ball), the ball goes pretty straight... The principle I was trying to test is: if you take the 'crossover' out of the equation by having the supination EARLY, and make a strong enough pivot on the left leg with a left path/clubhead the ball reacts nicely in terms of flight and path and goes pretty straight. WHY?

 

 

 

This is a drill Dick Harmon used with me on many lessons. He wanted me to point the toe down the line behind the ball grip it and find a way to cut it. The best drill I have ever used and the hardest to boot.

 

Sounds alot like SliceFixer's "Shut Face Drill"...

 

When I see video of Hogan, I see his arms go DOWN, and his body pivot AROUND, almost two different movements, but meshed together... or as SliceFixer says, LEFT and LOW... basically, most, if not all, of this thread and its contents has already been brought up and explained by SliceFixer.

[fats]

Sounds alot like SliceFixer's "Shut Face Drill"...

 

When I see video of Hogan, I see his arms go DOWN, and his body pivot AROUND, almost two different movements, but meshed together... or as SliceFixer says, LEFT and LOW... basically, most, if not all, of this thread and its contents has already been brought up and explained by SliceFixer.

The Woat

 

 

 

LOL...How right you are...ol' Slice isn't guessing, he knows...great teacher!!!

[Siteseer2]

how about a link... if its been addressed. thanks

[juansky]

I would like to see some video from Slice on Youtube explaining the swing. I know he has posted some video already, but I would like to see him and a student go at it with Hogan's swing. He must have tons of video footage.

[fats]

how about a link... if its been addressed. thanks

 

 

Look at the 9 to 3 video...if you can't figure things out from watching his students no amount of talk will make you happy.

 

there's other swings also

[Tigersworld]

how about a link... if its been addressed. thanks

 

Hey a Newbie welcome here you go

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?sh...shut+face+drill

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?sh...shut+face+drill

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?sh...shut+face+drill

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?sh...shut+face+drill

 

alot more if you do a search

 

JuNiOR

[fats]

another of hisownslicefixerself

 

 

 

And in about 5 years the next female tiger woods...this is the best I've seen since Mickey Wright

 

Sorry sightseer I forgot you were new here....my bad

[fats]

When you see all these kids he teaches swing you feel like you're in the twilight zone or something...it really is amazing...it's like every kid there swings as good or better than the best tour players...That's why he has such a solid reputation as a teacher...look at the results.

[Swoosh-Thud]

another of hisownslicefixerself

 

 

 

And in about 5 years the next female tiger woods...this is the best I've seen since Mickey Wright

 

Sorry sightseer I forgot you were new here....my bad

 

She's got a helluva swing. ABSOLUTELY PHENOMENAL release. P U R E

 

No cariboo-humpin there.

 

Well if Hogan said the best golswing belonged to Wright.....................

 

Coming from a man of your stature and accomplishments, that is one significant endorsement for Slice.

 

Truth be known the secret has already been revealed by Slice. Pretty much any one of his or Dan's posts somehow or another is linked to the secret.

[hoganfan924]

When you see all these kids he teaches swing you feel like you're in the twilight zone or something...it really is amazing...it's like every kid there swings as good or better than the best tour players...That's why he has such a solid reputation as a teacher...look at the results.

 

Hehehe, That's exactly how I felt the first time I went to visit him. I was like "What's in the water around here?"

[dminn23]

When you see all these kids he teaches swing you feel like you're in the twilight zone or something...it really is amazing...it's like every kid there swings as good or better than the best tour players...That's why he has such a solid reputation as a teacher...look at the results.

 

+1 to this. Its funny how many GREAT golf swings you see there. It ain't no coincidence either. Some were total disasters (in the nicest sense) when he first got them, now they are studs. Thats the true testament. Not some +2 that came in and got some tweaking. Solid fundamentals with an emphasis on compressing the ball with pure rotation.

[PurePursuit]

felt the same way as you guys. In fact one of his student who is on here (amazing junior), wasn't a student of slices at first and told me how he found him. He was competing in all of the local junior tournaments around his area of Texas..and when he'd check who won, it would always be 1st place So and So from..Texarkana..2nd Place from Texarkana..and he said "I started to think something was in the water over in Texarkana" until he found Geoff.

[PurePursuit]

T-Bird, why the hell do you think so many people follow him and listen to what he has to say. Slice himself gives credit where credits due, do a search and you'll see how he was influced by Ballord and many others (He studied and used his methods along with many other teachers). You've been a member for less than a week. Don't you think these topics have been discussed at length before you graced us with your presence. Do a search, go read the S&T thread (not the one thats active now, the 30 page one). We've seen a thousand pictures, and explanations. There is a reason why so many members here subscribe to his theories, and respect him. He put in the time on these boards and put out everything he believes for people to pick apart and examine, and a lot of his stuff stuck to the wall. I like what Hoganfan says, of all of the instructors he's seen Geoff is the only one he couldn't find one thing that didn't make sense.

[eightiron]

Does anybody else think this Eightiron guy has literally nothing to offer this forum except belittling other people?? There are a lot of posters who offer at least something positive from time to time, but not Eightiron. As a matter of fact I have yet to see any new or enlightening information come from him at all.

 

Eight, any of us can go out and read golf books and study videos and then come to the forum and repeat what we have seen, heard or read. Dude, you really act like a know it all, but offer nothing of substance. You need a reality check bro..

 

No Sour Grapes from me Bro....

 

Must have upset you...don't see how..just asking why there is a 12 inch difference in belt buckle position..if its Hogan's Secret

Nope i don't read books..no time ...spend too much time playing and practicing

Just post what i see..maybe you don't like that cause it doesn't fit into your world

 

This thread is about Hogan's Secret....Slicefixer's students seem very close to me...and believe me I gave it a long long long hard look

 

So what's your opinion on Hogan's secret?

[PurePursuit]

LOL Eight, not many members have examined and challenged Slice than you. Thats a BIG compliment. you guys need to do a search and read some of the old threads.

[eightiron]

LOL Eight, not many members have examined and challenged Slice than you. Thats a BIG compliment. you guys need to do a search and read some of the old threads.

 

 

Sometimes you have to accept the inevitable...Sice got it right...Hogan's lower cog varied during his time but one mistake he did not make was shift away from the ball ...Hogan just turned post secret..at his best he set up perfect like the Mexico footage...Hogan was a player ..had his off moments for sure..LOL

[juansky]

Nice chatting with yall, I'm making my exit from these forums. :hi:

 

Need to contemplate my swing for a while. :bad:

 

Fats is right, no amount of talking will help my cause. :drinks:

[fats]

To me SF borrowed many of his idea's from others and then added them in a sequence where he though they might preform or conform to his teachings. I do not want any person here thinking I am speaking for FATS but if he has been around as long as he claims he would remember most of these drills. SF sounds like a great teacher and those here who are with him proclaim his influence on their swings. On the other hand S1, Martinez, Tiltswing, Dana, Lake, Magnum, and many others have helped many on this board who did not care for or maybe understand SF. If every idea someone puts up about Hogan is beat down being it is not what SF says, why are we hear... I have read some really interesting threads on here that are passed over and some that are argued for no end because one does not conform to that way of thinking. Thats crap if you ask most people on this board who are not in the SF school of thinking.

 

[sup]Man, you really are a smart as@, and no, you certainly can't speak for me...I was a player not a teacher. Never used a drill in my life. LOL...[/sup]

[Tiltswing]

To me SF borrowed many of his idea's from others and then added them in a sequence where he though they might preform or conform to his teachings. I do not want any person here thinking I am speaking for FATS but if he has been around as long as he claims he would remember most of these drills. SF sounds like a great teacher and those here who are with him proclaim his influence on their swings. On the other hand S1, Martinez, Tiltswing, Dana, Lake, Magnum, and many others have helped many on this board who did not care for or maybe understand SF. If every idea someone puts up about Hogan is beat down being it is not what SF says, why are we hear... I have read some really interesting threads on here that are passed over and some that are argued for no end because one does not conform to that way of thinking. Thats crap if you ask most people on this board who are not in the SF school of thinking.

 

What we know about The Good Hogan that every one is trying to copy

 

1. His clubs were unique

2. He had right eye dominance that effected his set up.

3. He open the club going inside starting the swing.

4. He did not make a big hip turn till the club started up.

5. He was turning against his right leg, to find his left.

6. His flat plane an opening of the club bowed his left wrist.

7. While still in motion on the BS he came to be fully in his left leg.

8. On the DS the club would get laid off from torque and lateral motion which cause the face to point to the heavens.

9. The right elbow moved forward toward the ball from the laid off torque putting him in a position he had to use his upper body.

10. He made a hard rotary turn from the inside with so much lead he could not release the club except with the body.

11. The brunt of the release came after he reached 3 o'clock in the swing.

12 He finished well below the left shoulder and had tilt angle out over the ball in his spine.

13. He had extra spikes in his shoes.

 

 

Why are you using my name here? I have tremendous respect for SF's ideas, I know Lake does too, and I'm pretty sure Dana and Magnum do as well.

[JD3]

Why do you think so many people follow Sevam1, Jim Hardy, P&B, or Dana they all have ton's of followers on their forums? Your question can go both ways, the interesting part of your message or tone is you think I am bashing SF.. I actually agree with many of his thoughts but as an individual and a grownup it is my choice to pick and choose what I let in or believe. Many of you think he has figured out everything about Hogan's swing and maybe he has but then I would ask why are so many people on this thread with different idea's.

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party, how did Slice and Sevam1 get on? Are they generally in agreement? What are the points of disagreement?

[dminn23]

Why do you think so many people follow Sevam1, Jim Hardy, P&B, or Dana they all have ton's of followers on their forums? Your question can go both ways, the interesting part of your message or tone is you think I am bashing SF.. I actually agree with many of his thoughts but as an individual and a grownup it is my choice to pick and choose what I let in or believe. Many of you think he has figured out everything about Hogan's swing and maybe he has but then I would ask why are so many people on this thread with different idea's.

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party, how did Slice and Sevam1 get on? Are they generally in agreement? What are the points of disagreement?

 

 

I think you would have to ask both of them as none of us probably know, nor should anyone speak for anyone else. This isn't an A vs B thread anyways. Its about Hogan.