Reality Balanced

Serenity05 · December 27, 2008

Thats what Geoff Mangum calls a heel hanging putter. This type of balance is the one that he likes the best. Has anyone tried this type of putter? How was it?

Heres a company that sells one. Has some interesting videos

http://www.positiveputter.com/

Here is what GM has to say about the different types of balance

BALANCING SCHEMES

Face-balanced putters and toe-hanging putters differ only in degree, not in kind. Both designs tend to make the toe flare open in the backstroke, out of the stroke plane, and not simply out of the target plane. The toe-hanging putter has a greater tendency to do this, inherent in the more severe physics of the mass imbalance, but a "face balanced" putter also does this to a lesser degree. This physics reality is CLEARLY not appreciated by golf instructors or players and even by almost all designers, so perhaps they will learn something of great commercial value by looking into these issues with a desire for clarity.

What I really "like" is a "reality balanced" putter, which ends up being a "heel-hanging" putter.

If you take a "toe balanced" putter and position it at the top of your follow-thru and then let it freely swing back to its own top of backstroke position, you will see it swings severely open at the top. That's due to the extra inertial of the extra mass in the toe end of the face: this extra heaviness won't stop as soon as the lighter heel end, so the toe crashes thru the wall of the train station and the toe goes farther than the heel, flaring open out of the target line AND the stroke plane. The "face balanced" putter does the same to a lesser extent. Why is this? Because the center of mass of the putter swinging on a tilt is not the same location as when the putter shaft is balanced on the finger level with the ground to "see what sort of balancing the putter head has". Finger balancing and the balancing during the swing are simply not the same, and what you want to know about is swinging or so-called "reality" balance -- what are the balance physics and inertial effects during a stroke, not when the putter shaft is poised on your finger.

But if you invert a "toe-balanced" putter (flip it heel-away, toe-near, underside of grip now on top) and suspend it at the top of the follow-thru and then let it swing to it's natural position at the top of the backstroke, you should see a putter that NOW swings squarely back and thru, sans unhelpful "toe-flow" causing the putter to open out of plane and off line. Interesting, huh?

To see the differences, visit these short movies at Positive Putters. Out of the nearly 600 current putter manufacturers, fewer than ten utilize these balancing principles in their designs (and none of the so-called "top" designers use anything other than the balance schemes that cause problems).

If you have a toe-flaring putter design, and don't like having to correct the putter face when it flares out of the target line AND out of the stroke plane (and that includes 99.9% of all golfers today), then you probably would like to know what is required to "prevent" the inherent physics from doing damage. All that is required is managing the extra mass, which is on the same order as about one fourth of a golf ball or less for the extra mass out of the proper balance towards the toe / away from the heel. Handling this requires a very modest increase in grip pressure, so there is a MINIMUM grip pressure to use every stroke, otherwise you are allowing the bad physics its head to mess with your stroke and cause unnecessary problems that need fixing. Golfers who think "feel is in the fingers and the less grip pressure the better" don't seem to know what is actually happening in the stroke, so again it's a case of the tail wagging the dog. These golfers are putting unmindfully in reaction to unhelpful physics, and this in effect trains these golfers non-consciously how to manipulate the putter to get some sort of success. That's fine, but skill without knowledge equals streakiness, with fall-offs from performance without the know-how for immediate self-correction. These fall-offs can last months or years. Ask Mike Weir (4 years) or KJ Choi (5 years) or Joe Durant (15 years), who all experienced great ghastly gaps between stellar putting rounds without the slightest clue how to fix the problem.

Any thoughts?

Clemsonfan · December 27, 2008

Positive Putters have great customer service and are a pleasure to work with. I tried the Positive Putters years ago in a sidesaddle and regular setups. I couldn't get the hang of the sidesaddle, and played well with the regular model. The putters were more expensive then, about 8 years ago, so this is a good deal. I returned mine within a 30-day guarantee they used to offer, and practiced mostly with the sidesaddle.

I probably did not give the regular setup putter enough of a chance, to be honest. At 2* of loft, I was used to 4*, and I was not sure this was right for me. In addition, the 72* lie angle, I thought, was a little too upright - I use 68* now.

At a trade show in Charlotte I saw the putters demonstrated on their Revealer, as well as with plenty of customers. They all did better with the Positive Putter than the test clubs - which were provided by the show.

The owner's name, I think, was Bernhardt, and his brother either won, or came in 2nd in the World Putting Championship back in the 90s. He gave me a great putting drill that I still use today to have my arms work in unison. I place my right hand on top, except for my index finger, around all of the fingers on my left hand, and practice that way. Great for distance control.

My putting was terrible down the stretch of this year, and I averaged 33.5 putts per round with a 6.3 handicap. So this offer intrigues me.

I did not know Geoff's opinion on this putter. I knew he thought highly of them, as he does some others, but had read any opinions regarding this type of reality balancing. Interesting stuff, and I hold Geoff in high regard.

Good luck.

Jeff

Serenity05 · December 27, 2008

Thats interesting about the loft. I purchased a Reeso putter which has zero loft and I seem to be coming up short a lot. It hugs the green too soon after impact which seems to kills the momentum. Of course it is winter and the greens arent at their best.

This is GM opinion on loft

The guiding principle is: the least loft required by the usual surface speeds and conditions you play is best. On today's greens (vastly improved since 1980 over the past), that is around 0-2 degrees, and 3-4 degrees is too much loft. Players using putters with too much loft unmindfully tend to change their strokes to overcome the adverse effect, by delofting the putter at address and dragging the putter low and level thru the impact area and similar idiosyncratic dynamics. That is the tail (putter design) wagging the dog (golfer's stroke). Good luck to that dog becoming a masterful "wagger" of his tail.

Any thought?

Clemsonfan · December 27, 2008

I have struggled with putters with too little loft. Geoff is an expert on many things, and I may have a swing flaw that causes me to need more loft. I used to be a straight back and through putter but changed in the past year to more arc putting after some poor performances and some lessons. My instructor asked me to point the shaft at my navel throughout the stroke, and 4* of loft and a flatter lie works well for me when I execute. I putted great after the lessons, but have gone awry recently.

I have tried two putters, that were not Positive putters, with 2* of loft or less and both were terrible for me. One was reality balanced and I could not achieve good speed due to its light weight and 0* of loft. The other had 2* and was too upright which gave me a bad hook spin. I never made a putt over 5' with that putter. With my stroke, putts with too little loft hop and skip and struggle making it to the hole.

I have looked at the Reeso's and you are the first person I have come across who has used them. If they had loft, I might have tried them.

The Positive putters place a nice roll on the ball, but I was really trying the Sidesaddle method. The owner sent a conventional putter along just in case I wanted to try it. They are well made, and I wish I would have given the conventional more of a chance.

My only comment regarding the tail wagging the dog would be all of the great putters I see who use an arc method and have putters with loft. Geoff knows his stuff, and I am not disagreeing with him, but I have seen a few of these folks master their stroke. That said, I have had a lesson from Geoff and he putts great, and he putted well with my putter as well as his own. In addition, he referenced giving a lesson with a Putt Putt putter to show a student that the instrument had less of an impact than one might believe.

Hope that helps.

Jeff

Serenity05 · December 28, 2008

Thank you for all your imput. I am 5'8 and have tried side saddle, long putters, and short. I have had the most success with putters that are 30 to 32 inches. I had some real success with Zen Oracle but my miss was a push. I purchase the Reeso to fiddle around with the lie angle(upright 76). The zero loft works really well in the summer when the greens were slick but now its not so hot. Rambling sorry :)

I think Im going to purchase the positive putter center shafted model. Ill report back with my findings :)