Hogan´s Bowed Wrist

[supercharger]

Diz, here is the link. It is a long setup. I am working on 3 or 4 things at one time so bear with me. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94grpffHj5I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94grpffHj5I[/url]

[TheBigChop]

I absolutely agree with your thoughts there, that's why I consider it pointless to pour over stills and focus on positions......I would add that there are other factors involved in shot-making other than the conscious manipulation of the hands that have a direct bearing on how cupped your wrist can be and how long that cup can be maintained/released....whether consciously or not.

You know, M...that's the enigma...that darn cup of the left wrist...HE thought it was important to his shotmaking ability...which would infer that there was conscious manipulation going on at some level, and in some quantum...

 

 

 

Yes he speaks. Funny thing is that, that palmar flexion what Hogan called supination made us so blind about real supination

 

In Hogans left hand there was two movements at the same time and he even confused terminology of those two.

 

There was that palmar flexion which mad it bowed (Hogan called supination) and at same time there was real supination (rotation of forearm outwards) Only palmar flexion is shown in the picture with circle in page 102 and real supination can be seen only in last picture of upper row.

 

 

 

 

I really doubt that Hogan "confused" any terminology in 5 Lessons. His artist Anthony Ravielli was well educated in human anatomy and movements, thus would have corrected this mistake. Hogan used the term "supinates" because that's what you have to do in order to get the bowed left wrist. If he felt that you achieve the bowed wrist by using palmar flexion, then that's the term he would have used. Hogan is telling us that the bowed left wrist is critical to solid contact, yet bowing the wrist is not how you achieve it. Instead you supinate the forearm.

 

 

 

Hummm, Sounds very familiar!

[TheBigChop]

In "Five Lesson" Hogan explains that at impact the left wrist must start to supinate. He really don´t explain how to get the bowed left wrist if he starts from a cupped wrist at the top.

 

.

 

I think this maybe one of the biggest points about his so called secret.

 

 

 

Looking at the drawing from the book: you can see how he goes from a cupped wrist to a bowed wrist -not a flat wrist- getting the raised wristbone closer to the target than his left hand during impact. He seems to roll his left hand into the ball to get his knuckles to point toward the ground.

 

How did he really get it?

 

He told you how to get it.

 

 

I absolutely agree with your thoughts there, that's why I consider it pointless to pour over stills and focus on positions......I would add that there are other factors involved in shot-making other than the conscious manipulation of the hands that have a direct bearing on how cupped your wrist can be and how long that cup can be maintained/released....whether consciously or not.

You know, M...that's the enigma...that darn cup of the left wrist...HE thought it was important to his shotmaking ability...which would infer that there was conscious manipulation going on at some level, and in some quantum...

 

 

 

Yes he speaks. Funny thing is that, that palmar flexion what Hogan called supination made us so blind about real supination

 

In Hogans left hand there was two movements at the same time and he even confused terminology of those two.

 

There was that palmar flexion which mad it bowed (Hogan called supination) and at same time there was real supination (rotation of forearm outwards) Only palmar flexion is shown in the picture with circle in page 102 and real supination can be seen only in last picture of upper row.

 

 

 

 

I really doubt that Hogan "confused" any terminology in 5 Lessons. His artist Anthony Ravielli was well educated in human anatomy and movements, thus would have corrected this mistake. Hogan used the term "supinates" because that's what you have to do in order to get the bowed left wrist. If he felt that you achieve the bowed wrist by using palmar flexion, then that's the term he would have used. Hogan is telling us that the bowed left wrist is critical to solid contact, yet bowing the wrist is not how you achieve it. Instead you supinate the forearm.

 

 

Hummm, Sounds very familiar!

 

If that is directed at my previous post please reread it, particularly the last paragraph, it was intended as the anti-post to this whole thread, emphasis to the original poster.

 

 

Nothing to do with you! More to do with someone else that is not on here who has shown how the cup/bow of the wrist by Hogan works and is manipulated action. I'm sure many know who I am talking of.

[Diz]

In "Five Lesson" Hogan explains that at impact the left wrist must start to supinate. He really don´t explain how to get the bowed left wrist if he starts from a cupped wrist at the top.

 

.

 

I think this maybe one of the biggest points about his so called secret.

 

 

 

Looking at the drawing from the book: you can see how he goes from a cupped wrist to a bowed wrist -not a flat wrist- getting the raised wristbone closer to the target than his left hand during impact. He seems to roll his left hand into the ball to get his knuckles to point toward the ground.

 

How did he really get it?

 

He told you how to get it.

 

 

I absolutely agree with your thoughts there, that's why I consider it pointless to pour over stills and focus on positions......I would add that there are other factors involved in shot-making other than the conscious manipulation of the hands that have a direct bearing on how cupped your wrist can be and how long that cup can be maintained/released....whether consciously or not.

You know, M...that's the enigma...that darn cup of the left wrist...HE thought it was important to his shotmaking ability...which would infer that there was conscious manipulation going on at some level, and in some quantum...

 

 

 

Yes he speaks. Funny thing is that, that palmar flexion what Hogan called supination made us so blind about real supination

 

In Hogans left hand there was two movements at the same time and he even confused terminology of those two.

 

There was that palmar flexion which mad it bowed (Hogan called supination) and at same time there was real supination (rotation of forearm outwards) Only palmar flexion is shown in the picture with circle in page 102 and real supination can be seen only in last picture of upper row.

 

 

 

 

I really doubt that Hogan "confused" any terminology in 5 Lessons. His artist Anthony Ravielli was well educated in human anatomy and movements, thus would have corrected this mistake. Hogan used the term "supinates" because that's what you have to do in order to get the bowed left wrist. If he felt that you achieve the bowed wrist by using palmar flexion, then that's the term he would have used. Hogan is telling us that the bowed left wrist is critical to solid contact, yet bowing the wrist is not how you achieve it. Instead you supinate the forearm.

 

 

Hummm, Sounds very familiar!

 

If that is directed at my previous post please reread it, particularly the last paragraph, it was intended as the anti-post to this whole thread, emphasis to the original poster.

 

 

Nothing to do with you! More to do with someone else that is not on here who has shown how the cup/bow of the wrist by Hogan works and is manipulated action. I'm sure many know who I am talking of.

 

@Big Chop who are u talking about?

[TheBigChop]

In "Five Lesson" Hogan explains that at impact the left wrist must start to supinate. He really don´t explain how to get the bowed left wrist if he starts from a cupped wrist at the top.

 

.

 

I think this maybe one of the biggest points about his so called secret.

 

 

 

Looking at the drawing from the book: you can see how he goes from a cupped wrist to a bowed wrist -not a flat wrist- getting the raised wristbone closer to the target than his left hand during impact. He seems to roll his left hand into the ball to get his knuckles to point toward the ground.

 

How did he really get it?

 

He told you how to get it.

 

 

I absolutely agree with your thoughts there, that's why I consider it pointless to pour over stills and focus on positions......I would add that there are other factors involved in shot-making other than the conscious manipulation of the hands that have a direct bearing on how cupped your wrist can be and how long that cup can be maintained/released....whether consciously or not.

You know, M...that's the enigma...that darn cup of the left wrist...HE thought it was important to his shotmaking ability...which would infer that there was conscious manipulation going on at some level, and in some quantum...

 

 

 

Yes he speaks. Funny thing is that, that palmar flexion what Hogan called supination made us so blind about real supination

 

In Hogans left hand there was two movements at the same time and he even confused terminology of those two.

 

There was that palmar flexion which mad it bowed (Hogan called supination) and at same time there was real supination (rotation of forearm outwards) Only palmar flexion is shown in the picture with circle in page 102 and real supination can be seen only in last picture of upper row.

 

 

 

 

I really doubt that Hogan "confused" any terminology in 5 Lessons. His artist Anthony Ravielli was well educated in human anatomy and movements, thus would have corrected this mistake. Hogan used the term "supinates" because that's what you have to do in order to get the bowed left wrist. If he felt that you achieve the bowed wrist by using palmar flexion, then that's the term he would have used. Hogan is telling us that the bowed left wrist is critical to solid contact, yet bowing the wrist is not how you achieve it. Instead you supinate the forearm.

 

 

Hummm, Sounds very familiar!

 

If that is directed at my previous post please reread it, particularly the last paragraph, it was intended as the anti-post to this whole thread, emphasis to the original poster.

 

 

Nothing to do with you! More to do with someone else that is not on here who has shown how the cup/bow of the wrist by Hogan works and is manipulated action. I'm sure many know who I am talking of.

 

@Big Chop who are u talking about?

 

 

 

Burley! They knew whom I was referring too but did not want to say it because he showed how this all worked before and wrote a book about it. Several of the people on this board have disagreed but seems a few of them now are reverting back to what Burl's said about the "Harley" move by Hogan.

[Diz]

I remember him.....I liked that he had the nuts to put his swing up for review ......

[Tigersworld]

While Big Chop goes on and relies on a “Harley” throttle. This is so far from Mr. Hogan intent it’s missing so much of target...I will always laugh at this concept. Read Mr. Hogan quote on my signature he is telling you it's not just a simple twist of the wrist fix.

JuNiOR

[TheBigChop]

[quote name='Tigersworld' date='26 March 2010 - 01:20 PM' timestamp='1269627601' post='2342551']
While Big Chop goes on and relies on a "Harley" throttle. This is so far from Mr. Hogan intent it's missing so much of target...I will always laugh at this concept. Read Mr. Hogan quote on my signature he is telling you it's not just a simple twist of the wrist fix.

JuNiOR
[/quote]


You might be right, only Hogan would know such a thing. I agree with Burl's though because I see it in his students who want a Hogan action but that does not mean they are exact copies of Hogan, no one is. Heck one of his Mini tour guys is leading the Southwest Louisiana Open right now and he "Harley's" the club in the manner that Burl's speaks of. You might be able to argue how but 66 with 8 birdies ain't no CHOP! Like Diz said Burl's might have ruffle feathers of some on here but when you have players that are making money and getting better, not sure why you would not want to listen/explore the concepts he tried to explain. As for some that think you tried to help him thats has been a real inside joke with us, reverse psychology is Burl's strong, the mind games. HaHa!

[/font][url="http://agpts.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/agpts10/event/agpts102/contest/1/leaderboard.htm"]http://agpts.bluegol...leaderboard.htm[/url]


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRLWE4-oyHk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRLWE4-oyHk[/url]

[supercharger]

Once the hips have started the rotation ccw it will automatically drop the swingplane onto the right hip. When the right elbow gets on the right hip one needs to use palmer flexion to take the cup out and get to a flat wrist. This will get one on an early elbow plane and go from a low leverage force on the club to a high leverage force so when rotating the club follows the hips around. When the left wrist is flat, any further turning will force the the left forearm into ccw rotation through the ball and past. If using hogans pivot one will have to release this way to produce good results. It is a natural release with the lead arm which will go low left and a natural motion with the right wrist to get on the early elbow plane as throwing a rock. Put the two together and one can feel this motion of just turning the handle, while doing this there is a sensation of the shaft riding on a swing plane rail down to impact.

[TheBigChop]

[quote name='supercharger' date='27 March 2010 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1269738110' post='2344941']
Once the hips have started the rotation ccw it will automatically drop the swingplane onto the right hip. When the right elbow gets on the right hip one needs to use palmer flexion to take the cup out and get to a flat wrist. This will get one on an early elbow plane and go from a low leverage force on the club to a high leverage force so when rotating the club follows the hips around. When the left wrist is flat, any further turning will force the the left forearm into ccw rotation through the ball and past. If using hogans pivot one will have to release this way to produce good results. It is a natural release with the lead arm which will go low left and a natural motion with the right wrist to get on the early elbow plane as throwing a rock. Put the two together and one can feel this motion of just turning the handle, while doing this there is a sensation of the shaft riding on a swing plane rail down to impact.
[/quote]


I would say that this idea has lots of Hardy's "One Plane" in it and the "Palmar Flexion" is not correct in my opinion. The action you describe to release the cup is way to late as it is shown clearly in the Mexico, Masters, and a few other video's of Hogan. This would be a good way to make sure the club does not get over plane but might require a twisting of the right arm to keep from getting the club stuck and behind.[/font]

[JD3]

[quote name='AlexCzervic' date='28 March 2010 - 03:43 AM' timestamp='1269765788' post='2345510']


When he ignores Burley, looks like the kid can swing.......Good luck with your endeavors.
[media][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQUGKafEVVo"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=WQUGKafEVVo[/url][/media]
[/quote]
He actually looks somewhat Stack and Tilt, or it wouldn't take much to change him.

[TheBigChop]

[quote name='AlexCzervic' date='28 March 2010 - 02:08 PM' timestamp='1269803310' post='2346149']
[quote name='TheBigChop' date='26 March 2010 - 11:01 AM' timestamp='1269615717' post='2342138']
Burley! They knew whom I was referring too but did not want to say it because he showed how this all worked before and wrote a book about it. Several of the people on this board have disagreed but seems a few of them now are reverting back to what Burl's said about the "Harley" move by Hogan.
[/quote]


First of all, he hasn't fiqured out anything on his own and certainly not anything sensible. The attempted inference that he has shown anything of value that people are reverting back to is absurd. Nobody is reverting back to anything he said, at least not anybody that knew what they were talking about in the first place. I doubt Burley believes in the Harley method but you have to come up with something, right? It is just marketing nonsense aimed at the hopeful, who can't swing and don't understand. I personally don't care how many swings he screws up, but he is a Hogan whore for profit and thus 'Fair Game' and so are the others.

AC
[/quote]



Maybe you would honor us with a look at your golf swing!

I was going to leave this alone but Your attitude toward others is just a reflection of your own ignorance I'm assuming! Michael was built from scratch I think it has been 3 yrs now and he had no tournament or college experience. This past year he played 5 Nation Wide Tour events and made 4 cuts and he is just one tour player whom Burley helps. I figure some of his plays who are on the mini tour are all happy with him and one of his Pga Tour guys already had a top 10 this year if that even matters. Burley does not claim to have all the answers and is just a seeker of the game like many other teachers! Anyone that tries to better them self is doing something right in my book and people like yourself who are haters try to bring them down. Its just like SnT everyone wants to disprove them but they can't and I know Burl's has the utmost respect for Andy Plummer and Mike Bennette who both find his style comfortable to the SnT swing.

Last, you are waisting others time on here with your worthless opinion and probably never even taken a lesson from him and do not even know what Burley teaches other than his explanation of the Harley move. I'm done with your disrespectful attitude and will not respond back to any further post of yours unless, you have something educational to discuss of the golf swing.. [/font]

[downtoscratch]

Oh joy...... the Burley bus is back in town. Question Chop. Why is it that all of Blake's friends butcher the English language just as he does? Classmates from grade school I guess. Wasted/waisted strait/straight etc. etc. Have fun with all this. DTS

[TheBigChop]

[quote name='downtoscratch' date='28 March 2010 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1269822226' post='2346782']
Oh joy...... the Burley bus is back in town. Question Chop. Why is it that all of Blake's friends butcher the English language just as he does? Classmates from grade school I guess. Wasted/waisted strait/straight etc. etc. Have fun with all this. DTS
[/quote]



I think we have been on this subject before and I informed you that you are more than welcome to call me at GPPGolf, if you don't know the number look at the bottom of the page they are a sponsor!

I have and idea! How bout we stay on topic and you provide some of that golf knowledge I have read of yours. When reading some of your post it seems that you have some type of educated golf knowledge and grip on the history of the game.

Maybe I have it all wrong though and I'm not allowed to give my opinion on the threads or is this just another chopping block thread to try and discredit any others beliefs that are not in line with your own? It could be you just like to try and point out others bad grammar/spelling and throw in a identity impostor suggestions when you have nothing better to say.

I'm sure though you will come back and "Dazzle" us with one of your witty responses.

[eightiron]

Hey Big Chop , can you organize a slow motion video of the Harley Move , I don't get it for what it is ... I am getting the picture that it helps throw the club "out" in transition / shift the plane left and I can see how guys in punch elbow with the right shoulder a long way from the ball at the top would need a move like this to try and fade the ball a bit. I like that move of Hogan as well but I suspect it could be other factors

[TheBigChop]

[quote name='eightiron' date='28 March 2010 - 08:42 PM' timestamp='1269826932' post='2346977']
Hey Big Chop , can you organize a slow motion video of the Harley Move , I don't get it for what it is ... I am getting the picture that it helps throw the club "out" in transition / shift the plane left and I can see how guys in punch elbow with the right shoulder a long way from the ball at the top would need a move like this to try and fade the ball a bit. I like that move of Hogan as well but I suspect it could be other factors
[/quote]



I will ask Burl's to see if I can film him showing the action or he will film it himself. I know the Houston Open is this week and he will be going over so not sure how quick it might happen. Maybe he will be back early tomorrow and I can ask! Don't want to make any promises though he is weird on what he wants to film sometimes.

[TheBigChop]

[[/quote]

My avatar displays Arnaud doing what appears to be a poorly devised move, I assume it is the Harley move.

AC
[/quote]



I just wanted to save this statement by you to show how truly ignorant you are about what the "Harley" move is and how/where it is preformed! Being that the thread is titled "Hogan's bowed wrist", never mind! HaHa ...

[TheBigChop]

[quote name='eightiron' date='28 March 2010 - 08:42 PM' timestamp='1269826932' post='2346977']
Hey Big Chop , can you organize a slow motion video of the Harley Move , I don't get it for what it is ... I am getting the picture that it helps throw the club "out" in transition / shift the plane left and I can see how guys in punch elbow with the right shoulder a long way from the ball at the top would need a move like this to try and fade the ball a bit. I like that move of Hogan as well but I suspect it could be other factors
[/quote]


We just did this a few hours ago ...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6gpMt4HZe8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6gpMt4HZe8[/url]

[Siteseer2]

You mean THIS move Eight:

[attachment=567158:Tamrsk p4.JPEG]

[attachment=567159:Tamerisk p4.5.JPEG]
[attachment=567160:Tamersk--Seqnce.JPEG]

[eightiron]

[quote name='Siteseer2' date='29 March 2010 - 09:33 PM' timestamp='1269916413' post='2349146']
You mean THIS move Eight:

[attachment=567158:Tamrsk p4.JPEG]

[attachment=567159:Tamerisk p4.5.JPEG]
[attachment=567160:Tamersk--Seqnce.JPEG]
[/quote]

Yes I just see a loading of the left wrist while still pivoting, The move changing direction looks like a natural reaction to me , not a forced Harley Move

[JD3]

[quote name='TheBigChop' date='29 March 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1269915814' post='2349115']
[quote name='eightiron' date='28 March 2010 - 08:42 PM' timestamp='1269826932' post='2346977']
Hey Big Chop , can you organize a slow motion video of the Harley Move , I don't get it for what it is ... I am getting the picture that it helps throw the club "out" in transition / shift the plane left and I can see how guys in punch elbow with the right shoulder a long way from the ball at the top would need a move like this to try and fade the ball a bit. I like that move of Hogan as well but I suspect it could be other factors
[/quote]


We just did this a few hours ago ...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6gpMt4HZe8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6gpMt4HZe8[/url]
[/quote]
Do you think it parallels what Elkington talks about "ring the bell" at 2:05 mark?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZx3Q2LLPYQ

[SwingNV]

[quote name='eightiron' date='29 March 2010 - 10:41 PM' timestamp='1269916861' post='2349174']
Yes I just see a loading of the left wrist while still pivoting, The move changing direction looks like a natural reaction to me , not a forced Harley Move
[/quote]

I agree that it's a natural reaction. I think it's an automated muscular response along Dariusz' research.

To me it appears to be the supinator muscle in the right arm reaching it's maximum rotational limit, forcing the entire arm to rotate at the shoulder joint. This forces the upper arm in close to the chest as the elbow moves forward towards the target.

When you ask most people to supinate their arm, they do it at the shoulder joint- this is incorrect IMO. To maximize the supinator, hold out your right arm with palm face down. Now keep your upper arm in this same position while trying to rotate the forearm. You should reach your maximum rotational limit when your palm faces the target (or a shade more). Now keep trying to use the supinator to rotate the forearm while resisting with the upper arm. The pressure in the "elbow pit" should be tremendous. The only thing left to move now is the shoulder to rotate clockwise- which brings the upper arm in tight to the chest and the elbow towards the target.

[jrhyno]

I'll have to keep this in mind next time I hit. Could be key!

[quote name='Noallegiance' date='17 April 2009 - 07:32 AM' timestamp='1239967928' post='1636701']
I thought the ideal way of picturing the action was mentioned in 5 lessons anyway?

He clearly says that Jimmy Damaret was the best at this and it looked like he was lashing the ball with the back of his left hand.

Imagine your giving someone a back-hander and you can't go wrong.
[/quote]

[wiko]

on the cocking of the wrists..is this by turning your wrists sideways ..then starting your swing...not sure of the correct sequence to bring the angle down correct to impact the club open to hit the ball... can anyone explain the waggle action in ben hogans excellent book..

[chris_golf]

This thread is until now about fight, flee or freece... - I know only humans... hopefully it will change...

I have a question: what do you think how this bowing can work with normal Clubs (3degree bounce)?



[attachment=636593:HalfwsingBowed.jpg]

With my Gapwedge with 8 degree bounce It will work without a problem...
but with all the other clubs it can´t work - I have already problems with the bounce even I have a flippy release:

[attachment=636595:BounceClubs.jpg]

My conclusion is to really have a supinated and bowed impact you have to bend 5 degree your Irons open to have enough bounce!

I tried it with only my left hand and I had always the feeling I can´t use the bounce of the club and
the frontpart of my sole is bouncing of the ground!
[attachment=636604:supination1.jpg][attachment=636606:supination2.jpg]
[attachment=636611:supination3.jpg][attachment=636615:Supination4.jpg]

Some thoughts and some pics or vids of the supinating fans would be really good...

Chris

[chris_golf]

[b]Maybe most people think now Chris is totaly nuts with 3 mayor works in progress, but they are all interact to each other... Start of my backswing, shifting the left arm out and this bowed left wrist... <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vK89NkpjAB8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vK89NkpjAB8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385"></object> I was never a fan of this bowed left wrist or any supination, but what I caught on video today makes my thinking quite different. <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/G3l_EpflGXQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G3l_EpflGXQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385"></object> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/g4Hkkv6oTts&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/g4Hkkv6oTts&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385"></object> What I like is much more extension at and after impact even now I can´t seperate hinge action and hinge motion. I would aswell gain trajectory control. With my left arm not shifting out it can´t work properly, because the clubhead is tipping out...I used my gabwedge with 8 degree bounce and yes even with this bounce I aerifyed the turf. My wrist just don´t want to do this, because the sole digs plenty into the ground... There are two options available if I go this way: bending my clubs open or counterbalance somehow and a different horizontal and vertical clubmovement... maybe something in the middle... There are any bowed wrist´s out there??? If I remember correctly, even in the first edition´s of TGM they preferred a bowed left wrist at impact... Chris[/b]

[Snakeshirt]

[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1280935922' post='2617900']
[b]Maybe most people think now Chris is totaly nuts with 3 mayor works in progress, but they are all interact to each other... Start of my backswing, shifting the left arm out and this bowed left wrist... <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vK89NkpjAB8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vK89NkpjAB8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385"></object> I was never a fan of this bowed left wrist or any supination, but what I caught on video today makes my thinking quite different. <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/G3l_EpflGXQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G3l_EpflGXQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385"></object> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/g4Hkkv6oTts&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/g4Hkkv6oTts&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385"></object> What I like is much more extension at and after impact even now I can´t seperate hinge action and hinge motion. I would aswell gain trajectory control. With my left arm not shifting out it can´t work properly, because the clubhead is tipping out...I used my gabwedge with 8 degree bounce and yes even with this bounce I aerifyed the turf. My wrist just don´t want to do this, because the sole digs plenty into the ground... There are two options available if I go this way: bending my clubs open or counterbalance somehow and a different horizontal and vertical clubmovement... maybe something in the middle... There are any bowed wrist´s out there??? If I remember correctly, even in the first edition´s of TGM they preferred a bowed left wrist at impact... Chris[/b]
[/quote]

In my opinion the bounce is not the key for not digging too deep into the turf.

For me it seems that your body rotation slows down or almost stops before impact. Whch means that the rotation is not pulling the clubhead through the impact and your senses tell you need to cast the clubhead to be able to hit the ball.

However I am watching the vids from my mobile so may be very wrong with my notes. But usually my deep divots are caused by not rotating enough which causes me to cast, so perhaps it would be worth checking. Even though usually the actual cause of my insufficient body rotation is somewhere else, footwork, hip slide, etc.

Nice swing you have there anyways!

[kcgolfer]

Chris....I have to say.,,,the second video..with you in slow motion...looks identical to Hogan in the upper body and arms. OF course he uses WAY more leg drive than you do but look at you from impact through follow through! Thats exactly how Hogan looks from that camera angle!! I'm impressed.[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1280935922' post='2617900']
[b]Maybe most people think now Chris is totaly nuts with 3 mayor works in progress, but they are all interact to each other... Start of my backswing, shifting the left arm out and this bowed left wrist... <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vK89NkpjAB8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vK89NkpjAB8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385"></object> I was never a fan of this bowed left wrist or any supination, but what I caught on video today makes my thinking quite different. <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/G3l_EpflGXQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G3l_EpflGXQ&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385"></object> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/g4Hkkv6oTts&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/g4Hkkv6oTts&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="640" height="385"></object> What I like is much more extension at and after impact even now I can´t seperate hinge action and hinge motion. I would aswell gain trajectory control. With my left arm not shifting out it can´t work properly, because the clubhead is tipping out...I used my gabwedge with 8 degree bounce and yes even with this bounce I aerifyed the turf. My wrist just don´t want to do this, because the sole digs plenty into the ground... There are two options available if I go this way: bending my clubs open or counterbalance somehow and a different horizontal and vertical clubmovement... maybe something in the middle... There are any bowed wrist´s out there??? If I remember correctly, even in the first edition´s of TGM they preferred a bowed left wrist at impact... Chris[/b]
[/quote]

[ej002]

I agree with KC golfer. THat angle looks very nice. I think you should continue fooling with this. Chris, what exactly are you doing to bow your wrists? And where are you doing it? It is interesting what you say about the 5* because that is a similar idea that Martinez has (regarding an open club face), and he has a bowed wrist. But his is not manipulated. You know Hogan's clubs were bent to sit open, dont you?

[chris_golf]

[quote name='kcgolfer' timestamp='1280940099' post='2618080']
Chris....I have to say.,,,the second video..with you in slow motion...looks identical to Hogan in the upper body and arms. OF course he uses WAY more leg drive than you do but look at you from impact through follow through! Thats exactly how Hogan looks from that camera angle!! I'm impressed.
[/quote]

I am sometimes surprised that I can change movements and still hit this little ball!

But to be honest I am far far away to have a motion like Mr. Hogan... But I like to go
this way "full blown".... He had incredible open hips and shoulders at impact...

The problem is you can´t find any video´s of Mr. Hogan where he is doing identical movements...
Sometimes he is going CP for a fade, next time he hits a wood and goes CF to draw etc. - that is confusing.

In the slow motion vid it would be more like a Mr. Hogan CP fade - and to hit a gapwedge you don´t need
a lot of movements...

[attachment=636981:Chris.jpg]

I don´t like to compare my swing to Mr. Hogan, but I am getting a tiny little grasp what action he used and
I hope I can bennefit from them.

Thank you for your kind words

Chris