Droop vs Lie Angle

Yieeman · April 27

I was just “fit*” into KBS Tour 120s as the fitter said the shaft was helping my find the center of the club head more. Problem is that I am a high spin player already and hit the ball insanely high. These shafts are not helping that. I’be historically played Dynamic Golf X100 or X7 and had been playing with Project X 7.0. I do seem to be hitting more solid shots now with the KBS, but the spin and apex height are a real struggle. Do I grin and bear it? Or could I adjust the lie angle to try and make a Dynamic Gold work? Or is there another shaft that might fit the task?

Howard_Jones · April 27

4 hours ago, Yieeman said:

I was just “fit*” into KBS Tour 120s as the fitter said the shaft was helping my find the center of the club head more. Problem is that I am a high spin player already and hit the ball insanely high. These shafts are not helping that. I’be historically played Dynamic Golf X100 or X7 and had been playing with Project X 7.0. I do seem to be hitting more solid shots now with the KBS, but the spin and apex height are a real struggle. Do I grin and bear it? Or could I adjust the lie angle to try and make a Dynamic Gold work? Or is there another shaft that might fit the task?

If weight and feel is good, bend lofts stronger to get ball flight down.

However, the jump from Modus 120S to X7 is HUGE...Modus is in general softer than most others with the same flex letter, so the difference as flex, is way more than just "1 flex class softer", its more like 3, where MODUS 120s has a flex in the area of DG R300....i wonder why you played X7 and PX 7.0 if a soft noodle like Modus 120S is right for you?

I dont have specs for X7 and PX 7.0, but this should be enough to get a idea of where this shafts belongs
PX in this compare is "hard stepped" once, since PX is 0.5 longer uncut than DG and MODUS and all shafts is 39.00
That means PX 6.5 here, is close to PX 7.0 in a "apple to apple compare"

Yieeman · April 27

The full backstory: was truly fit into X7s a year ago but I think my fitter just saw my spin and apex and put me in the stoutest - we didn’t really try any other profiles. (I’m fast, but I’m not really X7 fast.) This year, I went to a Taylormade demo day and this guy fell in love with my ball striking/contact with the KBS Tour 120 - but mostly ignored the spin with it.

I guess my real question is: how similar is lie angle to shaft droop? Can I adjust the lie angle with one shaft/head combo to match the dynamic effect of shaft droop of the KBS Tour S?

Or is there a lowest spin mid bend shaft that I can try?

And thanks for all the data! This is awesome!

Hawkeye77 · April 27

3 minutes ago, Yieeman said:

The full backstory: was truly fit into X7s a year ago but I think my fitter just saw my spin and apex and put me in the stoutest - we didn’t really try any other profiles. (I’m fast, but I’m not really X7 fast.) This year, I went to a Taylormade demo day and this guy fell in love with my ball striking/contact with the KBS Tour 120 - but mostly ignored the spin with it.

I guess my real question is: how similar is lie angle to shaft droop? Can I adjust the lie angle with one shaft/head combo to match the dynamic effect of shaft droop of the KBS Tour S?

Or is there a lowest spin mid bend shaft that I can try?

And thanks for all the data! This is awesome!

Why fixated on “droop”?

Yieeman · April 27

I could be misusing the term “droop”, but I do consistently make better contact with softer/mid-bend profiles than stouter/high-bend profiles. This seems to be more a dynamic fitting aspect vs just a static - adjust the lie angle thing. My numbers are pretty bad with this setup - but I’m finding the center of the clubhead more frequently.

Stouter shafts (X7, X100, PX) my numbers improve but my contact moves to the heel.

JJgolfwrx · April 27

10 hours ago, Yieeman said:

I was just “fit*” into KBS Tour 120s as the fitter said the shaft was helping my find the center of the club head more. Problem is that I am a high spin player already and hit the ball insanely high. These shafts are not helping that. I’be historically played Dynamic Golf X100 or X7 and had been playing with Project X 7.0. I do seem to be hitting more solid shots now with the KBS, but the spin and apex height are a real struggle. Do I grin and bear it? Or could I adjust the lie angle to try and make a Dynamic Gold work? Or is there another shaft that might fit the task?

I'd test Kbs $ taper and Kbs tour v based on your feedback.

CTgamer · April 27

I had the same problem…when I was growing up, I was a higher speed player (94mph 6i) in KBS tour R+. Got used to lots of toe droop. Later in life when I got fit, the stiffer shafts all caused heel side impact.

I had to focus on feeling like I was purposely hitting it out of the toe, and learn to feel the shaft pointed inside the ball (closer to my toes). With so much droop, I got used to delivering it subconsciously feeling like the shaft was pointed at the ball.

The two ball drill (set up to the outside and hit the inside one) helped a lot.

Along the way, I played PX 5.0 hard stepped, which was the same weight as the KBS tours I grew up with, but pretty much as low spinning as it gets in that weight steel shaft. It dropped a little but nowhere near as much as the KBS, and felt like a good stepping stone. Maybe an option to consider too

Long story short, either learn to feel like you’re hitting it on the toe or figure out how to manage spin and launch with another component (strong lofts, ball, etc). Cheers and good luck!

Howard_Jones · April 27

1 hour ago, Yieeman said:

I could be misusing the term “droop”, but I do consistently make better contact with softer/mid-bend profiles than stouter/high-bend profiles. This seems to be more a dynamic fitting aspect vs just a static - adjust the lie angle thing. My numbers are pretty bad with this setup - but I’m finding the center of the clubhead more frequently.

Stouter shafts (X7, X100, PX) my numbers improve but my contact moves to the heel.

I get your point, but its not the right way to handle it, even if lie angles has the potential to move impact position.

If you still have clubs with X100, X7 or PX 7.0, take the ball marker test with a strait (vertical) sharpie line you address against the face. Post a photo of the printed line on the face, and i can tell you if a lie angle change should be done, and how much.

PS! heel side impact MIGHT tell us that shaft/total wgt is too high, but far from always, so we really never know before we have tried higher and lower to see what THIS players trends is. In that scenario a lower shaft weight will improve impact if that's the reason for heel side impact, but i dont think i would suggest MODUS 120S when ball flight is too high.

Yieeman · April 28

@Howard_JonesThanks for all the pointers. I will work on the getting the sharpie lie angle setup! I’m both trying to get my bag setup, but am also fascinated by the fitting process and am trying to learn all the questions and decisions that go on in a fitters head when working with someone. So apologies if it ever sounded like I was questioning/doubting you (your posts on here are always great!) - I’m just trying to understand the “why” and not just the “what”.

rgk5 · April 28

Years ago Ping did some extensive testing on Dynamic Droop and no, Viagra was not the answer. 😊 It was found that iron shafts shafts rarely droop more than 1* even when hit by the strongest of players. For most people this is of no concern since most steel iron shafts have 1.6* to 1.8* of torque thus reducing this problem to a virtual non issue.