I challenge you!!

[Babydaddy]

To try this type of ball and track your scores.

I am a golf ball ho, like many of you. I tend to gravitate back to the Pro V1 about every 4 months or so. I loved the 2007 B-330s and I also liked the ZURS as well. I am a pretty solid 5-6 and I average somewhere near 105 swingspeed with a driver.
One day, a few years ago I found a Callaway HX-Hot on the course I was playing on. I was surprised by how long and straight this ball played.
It also was not unreasonable with mid irons checking up into a green.
Well, I carded a pretty decent round with that ball, but I didn't think much about it.
Then I had a stretch where I used the Nike One Black. I got back into the mid seventies, again, for some reason, I just didn't think much of it.
Fast forward, I played nine after a few days with wet weather and I did not want to use my Pro v's so I used the HX Hots that had been sitting in my garage for a year. After not playing or practicing very much at all for the last several months, I bogeyed the 9th hole to shoot a 38.
It felt really good to be able to say I shot 30 something after not playing much at all.
As I thought more about it, and reflected on the handful of days where I felt that I had hit the ball magically well, I realized those days were mostly with either the Callaway HX Hot, or HX Tour, or the Nike One Black.
These balls don't feel all that great but they share one thing in common- they don't spin a lot, especially with the driver.
Now, why is that significant in terms of my score- and maybe yours too?
I think a lot of us decent recreational players may not realize that actual toll that one or two bad holes takes on our score. I think we tend to look shots that felt great or really bad. But I am talking about shots that resulted in higher scores. It takes some thinking to put this together, but I am going to do this and see what happens.
If I could avoid the one or two bad holes, I would go from my current handicap down to more like a 3-4 for sure. What I tend to do is hit tee-shots left with the occasional hang on push right, and I tend to do the same thing with long to high-mid irons.
This actually translates into strokes lost in a couple of ways. One, bad tee shots almost always force you to play defensive, which changes your mental game etc...
Secondly, you have to play sideways sometimes and that is a stroke. Third, the penalty shots kill you. Out of bounds is a killer.
On the approach shots at many of the courses I play, a little left or right is ok. On the other hand, 15 yards right or left can be dead. Even if you can hit the ball, you have a tough shot. If you have to take an unplayable or lost, it's a penalty.
Also, most recreational players tend to underclub. Anyone who teaches or talks with teachers, or reads instructional books know this. This is partly because we tend to think of a club as our 155 club, when really that yardage is a really good version of that club whereas the average might really be 151. Four yards may not sound like a lot, but it can mean the front bunker or the bottom tier of the green, etc...and that is a stroke as well.
Lastly, if you hit your shots somewhat solidly, you will impart some backspin and anything but the hardest golf ball will sit with a mid-iron in your hand.
In the short, short game you do have to allow for more roll. You can adjust for this easily and if I have a lob type shot, I just rely on height and the law of averages (in terms of a safe landing spot) to get me through...
Which this reminds me of another thing: many of us get too cute sometimes trying to pull of shots that have almost no margin for error. When you play a ball the HX Hot, you have to think more about percentage plays which probably also saves a few strokes. I mean this around the green and also trying to work the ball too much when a simple play out to fairway might have been the right play.
It is really rare that you see most players consistently be past hole high, but most of us do tend to come up somewhat short.
If you have a little roll out, many times it can make a shot even better, and if you hit it hole high and it roll a little, then you may be a little past the pin but still ok.
Now, if you play on really firm greens that may be a little different, but I am telling you I think my observations may apply to many of us.
Also, the HX Hot is so long and straight and high that I will often use one or two and sometimes three clubs less than with a Pro V. This helps to offset the lesser spin with approach shots.
I am going to use the HX HOT in my Spring showdown with my Florida golfing buddies. I will get laughed at, at least for the first two holes, but I believe the above observations really translate into better scores.
There may be other balls like the HX HOT, but this is the first ball that I have played that was not a two piece that I could really say is 10 to 20 yards longer than any ball I have used. It reduces side-spin and that keeps me out of trouble.
If there is a ball like the HX HOT but with a little greenside spin, that's what I will try to find in the summer when the greens firm up. But, I don't know, I will have to see the stats.
What I am trying to say is that in the above situations, having a straighter ball that happens to go longer, has mitigated the badness of my bad shots and allowed me to score better. I think having a ball that transfers energy on approach shots helps me get more out of a less-than-perfect approach, whereas the PROV might balloon a little or spin more on the green, etc.. this is about averages and imparting energy.
I would love for some of you guys to try this and see how you score!

Noelsy

[Babydaddy]

I know some will say "you should improve your golf swings". And I do work on that. But I have a pretty decent swing. I am more referring to the narrowing of the window of disaster here. That when you do hit a bad shot, it's like someone puts a driving range net on along the side you miss to.

You may miss the fairway, but you don't go out of bounds. Or, you may miss the green right, but it's hole high and a fairly straight forward chip, versus 15-20 yards right and short in the bunker.

Also being longer AND straighter at the same time is a real benefit.

Plus, there is a lot to be said for playing the percentages around the green. If you would try to float-check spin a shot with a wedge to bypass the tier leading up to it, and you don't hit it perfectly, you may have effectively cost yourself a stroke. Whereas, with the HX HOT, you play for the roll with a 7 iron and get the ball up there for sure.

PLUS, this type of run up shot is much less susceptible to pressure than the cute shot.

So some of the ways this ball can help are physical and a couple are not so obvious.

 

Noelsy

[SpinMill75]

I play the HX Hot every now and then....its a great ball.

 

Just wondering....have you ever played the Callaway iX? I think its one of the best.

[Babydaddy]

Spinmill

I have played it. It is a great ball but for some reason our Golf Galaxy here raised the price from 36.99 to 45.00. I bought a dozen Hots for 19.95.

I do have a sleeve of the ix though and have been putting and chipping with them since my change in mindset about greenside spin. I had a dozen of the ix last year, and I thought it was really good. I felt it was clicky off the putter. I liked the i a little better in that regard.

As I said, I usually ended up going back to the Pro V1 after I ho out for a few months at a time.

But, I am sold on less sidespin and long as the tradeoff for a little less feel on the putter and playing for more roll around the greens.

[buttuh]

I thought Pokemon came out with a new line of golf balls. Alright, I'll take you up on it. I saved up about a dozen or so of the HX Hot from finding them here and there. I'll be back.

[Pweb44]

Sounds like what you discovered while using the HX Hot, is what I discovered last spring/summer using the Srixon Trispeed (& Bridgestone e6+).

 

I would play the pro v1 and found that my drives were getting away from me off the tee, causing me to play a shot to get back to the fairway, therefore adding a stroke to my approach to the green. If you think about that ,excluding par 3's, you could be adding another 12-14 strokes just trying to get yourself out of trouble. Then I tried the e6+ since it reduced side spin, and was getting better tee shots, so instead of being in a trouble area I was playing my 2nd shot from the fairway or 1st cut. Then last spring I decided to test out the Trispeed while in Myrtle Beach and found I was getting the same results as the e6+ but also gained additional yards. The result was lower scores since I was staying in the fairways more than I was with the higher spin balls.

[minimal45]

In the golf digest golf ball hot list the burner ldp from taylormade was the lowest spinning ball off the driver, if that helps anyone...

[Splitter]

In the golf digest golf ball hot list the burner ldp from taylormade was the lowest spinning ball off the driver, if that helps anyone...

 

I heard that and believe it. That ball has got to be a re-stamped 1990's top flite. It's harder than my counter top. My counter top doesn't spin either.

[joekelli]

Maybe you should try the HX-Hot bite. supposed to be the same as the Hot with more greenside spin. Its worth a shot right?

[armydiver]

I'll give it a shot for a round or two. I'll let you know.

[Babydaddy]

Thanks for the replies guys. I may indeed be wrong, but it is hard to argue with the scores. Ideally, I would not have bad holes, but I don't get to play and practice as much.

[Babydaddy]

Thanks for the replies guys. I may indeed be wrong, but it is hard to argue with the scores. Ideally, I would not have bad holes, but I don't get to play and practice as much.

[sk373]

babydaddy,

 

i suggest that u try the TM TP Red/LDP. it's the lowest spinning out of all the premium tour balls, along w/ the Nike One Black, but it retains that soft feel around the greens and when putting. the B330-RX is also very low spin off the driver and feels soft around the greens and when putting. you don't necessarily have to give up feel, just $$$ :tongue:

[sk373]

oh, i also noticed that you list the Ping TISI w/stock shaft as your current driver. if that's still the case, you could definitely benefit from a new driver. today's drivers are longer and straighter with lower spin.

[Babydaddy]

oh, i also noticed that you list the Ping TISI w/stock shaft as your current driver. if that's still the case, you could definitely benefit from a new driver. today's drivers are longer and straighter with lower spin.

Well, funny enough about the driver. I had a Ping G10 with a TFC129 stiff. I just never got along with that driver.

I have a Bridgestone J33R 9.5 degree with the Aldila Stiff shaft, and that is a good driver for me.

For some reason, that Ping just works for me. It hit it longer with better trajectory, and usually somewhat straighter than the other drivers that I have tried.

I got ball fitted at Golf Galaxy last year, but I had not been playing and my mom was ill, and I hate nets. So, I put very little stock in it other than it confirmed about what I thought my driver swingspeed was.

I think the combination of the shaft and the loft with the relatively smaller head size works for me. I don't like the 460 size heads, it just seems too big to me.

[SaltytheSlicer]

I'm with ya! I shot my best 18 (82 at TPC Scottsdale) with the HX Hot. No lost balls, no penalties, lots of Fairways and Greens in Regulation.

 

I used several Tour ix last year and and think they are right there for sidespin and distance, but with improved short-game spin. And the backspin was just right on all clubs. They drop-and-stop on 5 iron through sand wedge. They are clicky off the putter and that would be my only complaint aside from the price.

 

Right now I'm playing 2007 TP Blacks ($20/doz!!) for many of the same reasons. Mega long. Really straight off the driver. Just-right spin. Similar iron feel to the Tour ix, but much better chipping and putting feel. I'll check back in a month or so and let you know how they are working this year.

 

I've been tracking my stats, and it appears the statistical correlation between my scoring and stat categories are strongest in: 1) Putts over putting par (0.82 corr) 2) penalties (0.75 corr), and Greens in Regulation (.50 corr). 0 is no correlation, 1 is 100% correlation. So obviously penalties hurt me a lot, and Greens in Reg are important. Putts over putting par is much more a measure of how close I'm hitting to the hole on approaches and up-and-downs than of how I'm putting. My putts per GIR correlation is only .08, so my putting itself can't be blamed. And fairways hit correlation is only .12, so for whatever reason that isn't a huge deal. I think what matters more is do those that miss the fairway miss in the rough or in the houses. As the OP pointed out, hitting 3 off the tee really hurts. Hitting from behind a tree hurts. Fishing for balls hurts.

[ColinMB]

Maybe you should try the HX-Hot bite. supposed to be the same as the Hot with more greenside spin. Its worth a shot right?

 

Agreed. Go with the IX Tour if you can, but the Hot-bite is the frugal player's version. An outstanding ball.

[cigarnut81]

This is a good idea for most people. If you are like me & your swing doesn't produce much spin anyway then stay away from low spin balls. I hope most of you take his challenge though. A ton of you would benefit from going to a ball that spins less.

[joekelli]

Does anyone know how the Maxfli tour fires fit into all this? They are basicly Burner TP balls but do they have what TM calls the LDP technology? They have the same dimple pattern and look identical. I bought 3 dozen of them to start the year and have not lost one yet in 3 rounds. They were beat up after each round but I was able to play each round with only one ball! I like them so much I may have to buy another 6 dozen before there all gone!

[Babydaddy]

Noelsy, some of your past postings have really helped my game, so I'm willing to give this a try. I have a nice clean new e6 maybe I'll try that. In the past I've found LOTS of hx-hots but I've always given them away. So what gives? Clearly people are losing lots of these hx-hots!

 

One thing I notice about your post is that your ball choice influences your choice of shot around the green; using a low spin ball obviously compels you to play a more conservative, low-loft straight-faced kind of chip. Which begs the question, can't you play the "percentage shots" with a tour ball? Of course! So maybe that's an underlying issue - playing within yourself and not getting too cute.

 

At the end of the day it's about your score, and I think most of us would agree with that. (I like to think that I'll do anything if I think it's the best way to hit it close...I'll hit a putter out of a bunker if need be.)

 

However sensible on paper, in practice it's not that easy to forego the cute shots...he who has shown flashes of brilliance (however spotty) will tend to believe that he really can pull off something fancy around the greens. But that is not necessarily playing within yourself is it.

 

But on the other hand its good to go out on a limb sometimes, attempt the fancy spinner. No guts no glory kind of thing. I mean, I'm a 9-10 but I've hit enough really good lob shots, off of bare lies and what not, to give me confidence and expand my repertoire of shots. Even still, there is always a time and place for the conservative run it up there kind of shot. I think maybe what you're suggesting is that choice of ball can help remind us to play within ourselves. I dunno. Very thought provoking stuff though. As for the low-spin improving the full shots, I think you make some good points, enough so that I'm gonna give it a try.

Ten-

Thanks for the kind words.

It is about the score, 100%.

I listened to a great interview with the Titleist designer guy today where he talked about the fact that they had shifted their original mantra about start at the green and work back to the tee for ball fitting.

He said they now say isolate the type of shots that can cost you and work from there.

The pros know what shots they need "help" with and what their weaknesses are.

He said the pros will take two different balls and go to their station, if you will, and see how the different balls react. Many guys want to see a 100 yard approach, and some want to see how a partial wedge shot reacts, etc..

Some guys hit the ball higher, like I do, and so that helps mitigate the lesser spin characteristics for me. just

Having said all of this, I literally just want to learn with an open mind.

I have also discovered that the Pro V1 increases my margin for error and actually does give me more options around the green. And I might get all of these stats together and conclude that the greenside stats are as or more important.

It is true with the modern balls that they don't side spin like the balata balls, and so that narrows the gap for a lot of people in terms of not having to trade off like we did in 1996.

I just think that there is a lot to be said for being honest about where you leak strokes.

I played nine again today and had an interesting thing occur.

I hit the ball ok, and the HX hot surely helped stay playable. I was one under until I hit my approach to an elevated green and missed a little right.

What happened was that I looked down at the ball and thought "I can't spin this like a Pro V.

But I had not practiced this type of shot with the HXX hot.

So a moment of fear crept in and I skulled my pitch/chip shot. I made a Quad on that hole being hole high in two!!

So, the honest assesment is that the ball affected my thoughts and short game confidence.

That cost me at least 3 strokes in one hole.

I might add all of this up after a couple of months and determine that you lose more strokes around the green with a ball that forces you to allow for roll, I don't know.

I will say that I love being long and straight off the tee, and seeing a cut shot go as far as as a straight or slightly drawn shot with a pro v. It really opens things up.

But, today's chipping debacle certainly added to the mystery!!

It may be that 10-15 yards and a little more straight doesn't make up for the around the green lack of performance.

[iteachgolf]

I personally play better with high spin balls. I highly doubt a ball change will result in 20 yards difference but could yield straighter shots.

[Babydaddy]

I personally play better with high spin balls. I highly doubt a ball change will result in 20 yards difference but could yield straighter shots.

Well, I can tell you that if you hit it straighter, and the ball comes off faster, you can easily gain 15 to 30 yards/

There are people on the forum that have done fittings with launch monitors that showed that much increase with a ball change.

I am tracking all of this with a Sky Caddie and also of course, I know where I normally hit drives from on my home course.

You are certainly correct in saying that the modern balls are closer in that regard-all things equal.

BUT, if you happen upon a combination of driver head/loft and launch conditions with a ball that works with your spin characteristics, no question you can gain 15-25 yards when you add all of those things up.

And conversely, I play with a former tour pro that needs a spinnier ball off the tee, or his shots fall out of the sky. And he is a great player, and hits the piss out of it. It's just that his launch conditions require a certain type of spin characteristic to be optimized.

I tend to spin the ball alot, and hit it high. You could certainly make the case that I should look at a new driver, but I look at things as whole and as a whole, less spin is good for me personally.

Noelsy

[iteachgolf]

I have a launch monitor, actually 2, and do fittings pretty regularly. The most I've seen in 6-8 yards on average when hitting enough shots to be statistically relevant. Like I said those are significant but 30 yards is a little unbelievable as an average.

[mikec222]

I don't know much about balls, is it actually proven that low spin balls will fly straighter? I thought more backspin helped negate side spin?

[cheers big ears]

I wholeheartedly agree with this post, I play Pro V1x's (which are improved this year IMO as the don't scuff up anything like what they used to!) and these keep things straighter for me.

 

I'll also add another plus into the mixer - I find that I can spin my approach shots more with the pro v1x for the simple reason that I hit them more often from the fairway rather than the semi!! :bb:

[307golf]

Nike One Black and Callaway Tour IX are two of my favorite balls.

 

You can choose aggressive lines with the lower spin balls so long as you can control your trajectory. A high ball flight that lands softly stops just as quickly as a lower but higher spinning shot.

[jfzhorseman]

Nxt tour is 10 yards further for me than higher spin balls.Some pro's play them in the high winds at the open championship.

[Pingnut]

I'm following the logic here. Shot a low round yesterday with a Srixon zstarx. On more than a few approach shots I was afraid I hadn't caught the ball right and that I was going to come up short. Each time the ball just carried on and then rolled out. For sure saved me a few strokes.

 

btw.. According to a GD ball test, the Nike one black is not a low spin ball. It's one of the highest spinning off a wedge.

[Godfather]

That ball sucks. There I said it.

 

EDIT: referring to the Hx Hot. Couple years back I told my girlfriend I wanted a dozen Pro-V1 for some holiday, the guy at Dick's Sporting Goods talks her into buying Hx Hot instead saying all his old pals in Florida raved about it. EPIC FAIL!!! I may still have a sleeve left of that dreadful abortion of a golf ball.

[307golf]

brilliant response godfather...