Please explain why this is not a rules infraction...

[ClarkGrswld4]

I was watching the senior event and Gene Jones would address his putts with the blade in front of the ball then bring it back over top the ball and hit it(Nick Price used to do this also at one point, dont know if he still does)

 

You are not allowed to touch the line of your putt in normal play...this does not qualify?

[MAK2525]

I was watching the senior event and Gene Jones would address his putts with the blade in front of the ball then bring it back over top the ball and hit it(Nick Price used to do this also at one point, dont know if he still does)

 

You are not allowed to touch the line of your putt in normal play...this does not qualify?

 

The rule allows for this as long as the player does not test the green ie; press down on the green surface. Placing the putter ahead of the ball does not constitute testing the green.

[ClarkGrswld4]

I was watching the senior event and Gene Jones would address his putts with the blade in front of the ball then bring it back over top the ball and hit it(Nick Price used to do this also at one point, dont know if he still does)

 

You are not allowed to touch the line of your putt in normal play...this does not qualify?

 

The rule allows for this as long as the player does not test the green ie; press down on the green surface. Placing the putter ahead of the ball does not constitute testing the green.

 

 

ok, but a player touching a point on his line to show the caddie, etc where he is aiming is not legal...this is not "testing the surface" in my opinion but is a penalty regardless

[Hidalgo]

Might I suggest one of the books about the Rules of Golf that are written in a very explanatory manner. Tom Watson has one out, as does Arnold Palmer. They're nice to go to when you have questions about things such as these.

 

As for the rules infraction, I don't write them or always agree with them, but here are the rules as they are written:

 

a. Touching Line of Putt The line of putt must not be touched except:

 

(i) the player may remove loose impediments, provided he does not press anything down;

(ii) the player may place the club in front of the ball when addressing it, provided he does not press anything down;

(iii) in measuring - Rule 18-6;

(iv) in lifting or replacing the ball - Rule 16-1b;

(v) in pressing down a ball-marker;

(vi) in repairing old hole plugs or ball marks on the putting green - Rule 16-1c; and

(vii) in removing movable obstructions - Rule 24-1.

 

b. When the player's ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched. A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

[xtremeinaz]

i have always wondered about the repairing ball marks on your line. You use a pivot tool then press it down with your putter. That sure would test your line. Also what if I did want a point on the green to aim for, could I just repair an imaginary ball mark and leave a spot in the green to aim for? seems odd you can repair these marks. Should just be the "rub of the green".

[The Chicken Connoisseur]

Why would anyone putt like that?

[HoosierGolfer]

Might I suggest one of the books about the Rules of Golf that are written in a very explanatory manner. Tom Watson has one out, as does Arnold Palmer. They're nice to go to when you have questions about things such as these.

 

As for the rules infraction, I don't write them or always agree with them, but here are the rules as they are written:

 

a. Touching Line of Putt The line of putt must not be touched except:

 

(i) the player may remove loose impediments, provided he does not press anything down;

(ii) the player may place the club in front of the ball when addressing it, provided he does not press anything down;

(iii) in measuring - Rule 18-6;

(iv) in lifting or replacing the ball - Rule 16-1b;

(v) in pressing down a ball-marker;

(vi) in repairing old hole plugs or ball marks on the putting green - Rule 16-1c; and

(vii) in removing movable obstructions - Rule 24-1.

 

b. When the player's ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched. A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

 

Great reply! Spot on.

[HeadonaStick]

i have always wondered about the repairing ball marks on your line. You use a pivot tool then press it down with your putter. That sure would test your line. Also what if I did want a point on the green to aim for, could I just repair an imaginary ball mark and leave a spot in the green to aim for? seems odd you can repair these marks. Should just be the "rub of the green".

This was already answered above: intent. Also, remember golf is a game of honor. You could repair an imaginary ball mark, but then you would be a cheater. It doesn't matter if you're caught, and you surely would be at some point, your intent was to cheat so you broke the rules.

[CarloGolfer]

I've always felt the rules of golf were/are written within the concepts of honor and self-penalty. The more you read them, the more it becomes clear the rules allow for players to understand why activities are right and wrong, and ultimately not to penalize for the arbitrary or inane.

 

For instance, it is prudent to use a towel to brush away sand on the putting surface and not to use your hand.

[Hidalgo]

I've always felt the rules of golf were/are written within the concepts of honor and self-penalty. The more you read them, the more it becomes clear the rules allow for players to understand why activities are right and wrong, and ultimately not to penalize for the arbitrary or inane.

 

For instance, it is prudent to use a towel to brush away sand on the putting surface and not to use your hand.

 

Not "SURE" I understand your statement here, but if you are saying that it is PRUDENT (the definition of which is: careful and sensible; marked by sound judgment) to use a towel or your cap to brush sand or other loose impediments from the green, that is a direct violation of Rule 16-1a. You can only use your HAND to remove loose impediments if your ball is on the green.

[bradski]

I think we are all forgetting that one of the best putters of all times putt's like this. he is also a very honorable man. """""" Judge elihu Smails""""

[CarloGolfer]

I've always felt the rules of golf were/are written within the concepts of honor and self-penalty. The more you read them, the more it becomes clear the rules allow for players to understand why activities are right and wrong, and ultimately not to penalize for the arbitrary or inane.

 

For instance, it is prudent to use a towel to brush away sand on the putting surface and not to use your hand.

 

Not "SURE" I understand your statement here, but if you are saying that it is PRUDENT (the definition of which is: careful and sensible; marked by sound judgment) to use a towel or your cap to brush sand or other loose impediments from the green, that is a direct violation of Rule 16-1a. You can only use your HAND to remove loose impediments if your ball is on the green.

 

I just googled this, and I guess I've been lied to.

 

It was explained to me (by a "pro") using a towel would NOT constitute a penalty because you are not touching the green. I guess he meant not "pressing down" on the green.

 

I had always used my hand up that point (about 2 years ago).

 

You re-learn something new every day. Thanks, Hidalgo. Good thing I've never done this during a tournament or else I would feel guilty of cheating.

 

Why would this dude go out of his way to tell me to do something wrong if he didn't know?

[Hidalgo]

Why would this dude go out of his way to tell me to do something wrong if he didn't know?

 

You'll find (unfortunately) that if you listen to enough people about the Rules, very few actually know them well. Some folks would rather guess rather than admit that they don't know for sure.

 

Just remember that YOU and ONLY you are responsible for your actions, and put a rules booklet in your bag.

 

AND JUST SO YOU DON'T FEEL SO BADLY......I'll tell you a little story that happened a few years ago.....

 

I was playing in a Sunbelt Senior Tour event in Myrtle Beach. My partner for the day was a newcomer (no problem with newcomers, btw) and I could tell right away that this fellow was...how would you put it..."Out of his element". He was as nervous as anyone I've ever seen on a golf course. I tried to chat with him a little as we were waiting for our tee time, and told him to chill out. After all, it's JUST a golf tournament. Anyway, this player was a REALLY nice guy, and it was his very first tournament. Not on our Tour, but first tournament EVER. And he was 50 years old! OK...to make a long story short, we played the first hole and when we got to the green we marked our balls. I putted first and missed my birdie putt. As I was standing back up after marking the ball, I saw him rubbing the grass around his ball with his hand to see which way the grain was growing! UNBELIEVABLE !! I couldn't believe that I had actually seen something this flagrant happening right before my eyes. I waited until after we finished the hole, and then I asked the guy if he had rubbed the green to test the grain direction? He said....YEP! SURE DID! (now you have to understand...I thought someone was pulling some kind of trick on me, because this couldn't be actually happening!) When I told him that he couldn't DO that, and that it was a 2 stroke penalty, he.......are you ready for this?......said: "SURE I CAN! I saw a program on the Golf Channel just last week that showed how you could find out which way the grain was growing by rubbing the grass!"

 

Of course......they didn't tell the viewers NOT to do it when you're playing anything other than a casual round of golf. :russian_roulette:

It took me 15 minutes to show him the rules in the book, and to convince him that they (The Golf Channel) should have been much more clear about WHEN you should and shouldn't do those things

 

Just remember.....nobody knows all of the rules inside and out. Not even the PGA Tour rules officials. They ALL carry a rules booklet in their pocket when working a tournament.

[CarloGolfer]

Why would this dude go out of his way to tell me to do something wrong if he didn't know?

 

You'll find (unfortunately) that if you listen to enough people about the Rules, very few actually know them well. Some folks would rather guess rather than admit that they don't know for sure.

 

Just remember that YOU and ONLY you are responsible for your actions, and put a rules booklet in your bag.

 

AND JUST SO YOU DON'T FEEL SO BADLY......I'll tell you a little story that happened a few years ago.....

 

.....

 

It took me 15 minutes to show him the rules in the book, and to convince him that they (The Golf Channel) should have been much more clear about WHEN you should and shouldn't do those things

 

Just remember.....nobody knows all of the rules inside and out. Not even the PGA Tour rules officials. They ALL carry a rules booklet in their pocket when working a tournament.

 

Great story. I actually started carrying a rules book about a year ago, and just got a couple of new rules-books in the mail from the USGA.

 

My story of this misunderstanding came about like this...

 

I was playing with my younger, less experienced cousin. He had hit a shot out of a bunker and then proceeded to just walk across the green without tapping his spikes, leaving sand tracks along his way. So I told him he should always tap/clean his spikes after he leaves a bunker so he doesn't leave sand all over the green. I was just trying to keep him aware of certain unsaid rules of etiquette. I then brushed off my line with my hand and began my pre-putt routine. The guy we were playing with says, "you know, you can't do that. You can't touch the green. It's a two stroke penalty. If you want to move the sand, you should use your towel, then it's not a penalty." (this isn't verbatim, but essentially this was the conversation). So, I said "really, isn't it a loose impediment?" He said, "it is, but you can't make a line to the hole with your hands on the green. it's a penalty."

 

At some point, he mentioned he was a teaching pro, but that's beside the point. I guess he had good intentions, but he shouldn't just hand out faulty information under the guise "It's okay cuz' I'm a teaching pro."

 

oh well.

[jjj912]

I've always felt the rules of golf were/are written within the concepts of honor and self-penalty. The more you read them, the more it becomes clear the rules allow for players to understand why activities are right and wrong, and ultimately not to penalize for the arbitrary or inane.

 

For instance, it is prudent to use a towel to brush away sand on the putting surface and not to use your hand.

 

Not "SURE" I understand your statement here, but if you are saying that it is PRUDENT (the definition of which is: careful and sensible; marked by sound judgment) to use a towel or your cap to brush sand or other loose impediments from the green, that is a direct violation of Rule 16-1a. You can only use your HAND to remove loose impediments if your ball is on the green.

 

 

I'm afraid that you have it backwards. You are not confined to using just your hand to remove loose impediments. See Decision 16-1a/8:

 

16-1a/8 Loose Impediments Removed from Line of Putt with Cap or Towel

 

Q. A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with his cap or with a towel. Is this permissible?

 

A. Yes, provided he did not press anything down.

[Swingtheclub]

Why would anyone putt like that?

 

 

Its a great way to line the blade up (expecially before most putters had sight lines)

 

It was also used by a lot of players as not only a wagon but a stroke starter

 

Mainly it was and alighnment tool.

[Hidalgo]

I've always felt the rules of golf were/are written within the concepts of honor and self-penalty. The more you read them, the more it becomes clear the rules allow for players to understand why activities are right and wrong, and ultimately not to penalize for the arbitrary or inane.

 

For instance, it is prudent to use a towel to brush away sand on the putting surface and not to use your hand.

 

Not "SURE" I understand your statement here, but if you are saying that it is PRUDENT (the definition of which is: careful and sensible; marked by sound judgment) to use a towel or your cap to brush sand or other loose impediments from the green, that is a direct violation of Rule 16-1a. You can only use your HAND to remove loose impediments if your ball is on the green.

 

 

I'm afraid that you have it backwards. You are not confined to using just your hand to remove loose impediments. See Decision 16-1a/8:

 

16-1a/8 Loose Impediments Removed from Line of Putt with Cap or Towel

 

Q. A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with his cap or with a towel. Is this permissible?

 

A. Yes, provided he did not press anything down.

 

First off....I didn't have it backwards, but I was wrong nevertheless. Secondly...I would like to extend an apology to everyone here. I was wrong about this rule.....Because it has been CHANGED. Since I have not been to a Rules Workshop since 2003 (My BAD!) I was not aware of the revision. Just another reason to obtain a rules booklet and keep it in the bag. THANK YOU for bringing this to my attention!

 

USGA Rule Revision # 16-1a(i)

One of the most important Revisions to the Rules of Golf occured in January, 2004, yet most golfers are not yet aware of it. The Rule Change is Rule # 16-1a(i) which states that a golfer may remove loose impediments from their line of putt by any means, as long as they do not press anything down.

 

The original rule stated that is anything other than the back of your hand or putter head was used, a 2 stroke penaly would follow. Some of the best golfers in the world have been affected during PGA Tournaments, including but not limited to: Jesper Parnevik in the 1999 Heritage Golf Classic at Hilton Head, South Carolina; Rich Beem in 2002, during the third round of the PGA Championship at Hazeltine National Golf Club, and Vijay Singh who incurred a two-shot penalty during the Wachovia Championship in May of 2003.

 

At times, pros and amateur golfers alike have used towles, the brim of their caps, gloves and even their shoe to brush aside sand, leaves and animal droppings from their line of putt. If every golfer who has ever been in violation of Rule 16--a(i) honestly counted their 2 stroke penalties, handicap indexes would soar.

 

Clarifications to every rule are further explained in the "DECISIONS OF THE RULES OF GOLF". Decisions #16-1a/8, #16-1a/10 and #16-1a/11 pertain to Rule #16-1a(i). The sweeping motion must be in a "side-to-side" direction; used only on the putting green for loose impediments; and the golfer must sweep his/her own line.

 

[CarloGolfer]

This perfectly illustrates the power of productive conversation. I guess now I don't have to hate that guy who I thought gave me faulty info. Plus, I'll put my BRAND NEW rule book in my bag.

 

cheers.