Sandbaggers....Why???

[Carolina Golfer 2]

Interesting topic. Surprised that no one has come out and I said. I'm an actual 6 HC but I play in events at 14 cause I like the CAAAASH

Seriously, I'm afraid of the day I get called a sandbagger and I sure hope it comes. Let me explain. I'm currently a 19.3. I can have rounds where I'll have 6 or 7 pars, several bogies, a double and boom 2 or 3 9's that will just come out of nowhere. Those blow up holes keep me in the 95 to 100 range.

I've recounted several recent rounds where if I brought those 9's down to a bogey boom all of a sudden I'm in with a 83 to 85. And if this ever happened in a competitive event, of which I play in several a year, I could hear it now. Sure I could point them to GHIN to review all my scores, but they'd probably think they were made up.

So this isn't said in defense of sandbaggers, quite the opposite. I dispise them as much as everyone, however sooner or later I'm sure I'll find myself in that situation.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Carolina Golfer 2' post='1969983' date='Sep 24 2009, 04:30 PM']Interesting topic. Surprised that no one has come out and I said. I'm an actual 6 HC but I play in events at 14 cause I like the CAAAASH

Seriously, I'm afraid of the day I get called a sandbagger and I sure hope it comes. Let me explain. I'm currently a 19.3. I can have rounds where I'll have 6 or 7 pars, several bogies, a double and boom 2 or 3 9's that will just come out of nowhere. Those blow up holes keep me in the 95 to 100 range.

I've recounted several recent rounds where if I brought those 9's down to a bogey boom all of a sudden I'm in with a 83 to 85. And if this ever happened in a competitive event, of which I play in several a year, I could hear it now. Sure I could point them to GHIN to review all my scores, but they'd probably think they were made up.

So this isn't said in defense of sandbaggers, quite the opposite. I dispise them as much as everyone, however sooner or later I'm sure I'll find myself in that situation.[/quote]

Please forgive me if I misunderstood what you wrote above, or if I'm telling you something that you already know. Your 19.3 index translates, for instance, to a course handicap of 22 on at a 130 slope course, or a 19 on a 114 slope course. For the 22 course handicap round, equitable stroke control requires you to post no more than an 8 on any hole. For the 19 course handicap round, you can't post more than a 7 on any hole. So in both of these instances, the 9s you describe above should probably have already been lowered to 8s or 7s, which would conceiveably lower your handicap. But perhaps you've already done this, and your mention of 9s was only in describing the score you achieved that day, and not the score you entered into the handicap system. Either way, without appropriately lowering these hole scores as required by ESC, one may in fact be, however unintentionally, sandbagging.

[Pepperturbo]

Carolina ... not to worry. If I've said it once, I've said it too many times to count, on any given day "any" golfer (I mean any) regardless of index can drop ten strokes or blow up by ten.

Now that I've said that - watch out for idiots that make wild accusations because they don't accept responsibility for their loosing ways. I ran into those types a few times. My solution has been to challenge them to a game for serious $$$; it's amazing how quickly they quietly turn tail with their tail between their legs.

[dpark]

[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='1970404' date='Sep 24 2009, 05:32 PM']Um ... okay? Can I be equally blunt? Not entirely certain why [i]this[/i] topic has anything to do with that topic. I've been playing golf for over four decades. Am 51.[i] Still [/i]play to a single digit cap.[/quote]
The topic does relate because it has to do with the Rules of Golf, and I don't think you know them nearly as well as you think you do, but want others to believe that you are an expert. BTW, having a single-digit handicap has nothing to do with understanding the Rules of Golf as your arrogant post that it is OK to move OB stakes if they interfere with your swing demonstrated.

[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='1970404' date='Sep 24 2009, 05:32 PM']Not saying I'm totally correct on every ruling, every opinion. (In fact, I've never met [i]anyone[/i] that is).[/quote]
Have you ever uttered three particular words? "I was wrong"? Do you realize that in your entire diatribe to me have not actually confessed to being wrong? You come off as a pompus know-it-all, daring other people to prove you wrong and even when others do that, you still never admit you are wrong. Yet, you get very irritated when you get called on it. Hmmm, sounds like a spoiled brat who is not used to being challenged. Grow up.

[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='1970404' date='Sep 24 2009, 05:32 PM']You want to look at a single opinion of mine, and on that basis, disregard everything I say in any future post (even if completely unrelated)? Cool dude. Totally go for it.

You wanna trash talk me for a single post out on more than a couple of years of fairly intelligent postys on WRX? Again ... go for it.[/quote]
When it comes to the Rules of Golf, quite simply, yes. That post pretty much ruined all your credibility, further enhanced by the fact that you are now trying to tie your single digit handicap as some sort of credibility foundation. That (your handicap) is something that has nothing to do with the other (knowledge of the Rules of Golf) as you have amply demonstrated.


[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='1970404' date='Sep 24 2009, 05:32 PM']And no, I'm not gonna let you slide.[/quote]
Same here.

[mcmski]

[quote name='dpark' post='1969832' date='Sep 24 2009, 12:06 PM'][quote name='mcmski' post='1968474' date='Sep 23 2009, 05:11 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='1967070' date='Sep 22 2009, 10:27 PM'][quote name='joekelli' post='1966932' date='Sep 22 2009, 09:05 PM']I think it is harder to sandbag in golf but I am sure there are guys who do. I also think someone can appear to be sandbagging but in reallity they are just concentrating more when something is on the line. I know there are times when I play I am trying to do something to make myself better, like hitting driver on every par 4 and 5 just to get better. My score might be higher but its not because I wasnt trying. If I was in a tournament I might only hit my driver a handfull of times. When there is something on the line I will play a lot smarter then I normally would.[/quote]
Then you should play to a tournament handicap since that is the real indicator of your true golfing ability.

I don't know you and don't know if you realized how some people would react to what you posted, but golfers like you are why I no longer play in net events.

You are a "sandbagger".

By your own admission, you don't play "smart" golf unless you are in a tournament which means your non-tournament scores are not indicative of your actual playing ability, which in turn means your handicap is not valid.

People who "concentrate more" when they are in a tournament or when "something is on the line" are sandbaggers. Period.
[/quote]So are you honestly saying that you've never tried a crazy "hero shot" when you don't have anything to lose?A shot that if it goes well could mean eagle or birdie but if it goes wrong will certainly make for double or worse? A shot that you might have played safe if you were in contention to win? That sounds like a boring way to play golf on a day to day basis.

I guess that makes me a sand bagger as well.

I've only ever played in gross tournaments in part or in whole because of the sand bagging issues. I really don't care what someone's net score is, especially if they beat their index by a lot. It really seems like the whole system is set up to favor the poor golfer anyway and doesn't really level the playing field unless people are actually abiding by the spirit of the rules and how often does that actually happen in a large field event?
[/quote]
In general, I don't try "hero" shots, because they are just that, low-percentage shots. That said, I have tried hero shots in regular rounds and tournament rounds both, when the situation called for it.

What I read out of the post I replied to is that he did shots in regular rounds that he would never do in a tournament (or that is how I interpreted what he wrote). The question that comes to mind is how many times does he do this over the course of a round and how often in multiple rounds does he do this? ESC takes some of the higher scores out of play but if you are 4-5 handicapper and you do this 2-3 times a round and take doubles on those holes, you can raise your handicap easily up to a 8-9.

The question is why do you do those shots? Is it because you are trying to figure out if you can pull it off for when you really need to (in a tournament) or is it because you really are just goofing around but in essence you are trying to raise your handicap?

It is eerily similar to some guys I know in my club that are like 2-3 strokes over par after 15 holes, but end up going double-double-double to close. They know they can shoot 74-76 every time they go out, but they never post a score under 80. They always have an excuse for the poor finish: Oh that putt broke differently than I thought, or I topped that fairway wood etc.

I play to post my best score, with my best effort, every round. I take into account the odd of succeeding on every shot and choose accordingly. However, I also play practice rounds where I play 5-6 balls per hole in the evenings when the course is empty and obviously those I do not post. That is when I try my hero shots. But during a round of golf when I play one ball, whether there is a Coke on the line or a $25 Nassau, I play my best on every single shot. But that's just me I guess.

And I guess that is also the reason why I only play scratch events. I will play with whoever shows up for a regular round of golf, but outside of my own group of 15 guys where we know everyone's handicap inside-and-out, I never play anyone else for money. It just isn't worth the aggravation. Net events are for the birds...
[/quote]I personally in casual rounds will try to pull off risk reward shots when ever they come up. Sometimes that is once in a round, sometimes it's 5 or 6. I've never once thought before or after "I wonder how this is going to effect my handicap" that willingness to take risks has helped me in the few tournaments I have played in (none of which were net) because I had a better idea of when I should actually go for it and when I should hold back.

In a casual round I try to play the first shot, shape, and trajectory that pops into my head for that particular situation. In a competitive round I tend to trouble shoot the shots a bit more (in part because I have more time between shots usually). The effect seems to be less eagles and birdies but less double bogie's.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating people throwing away shots for the sake of shooting a higher score. Every shot I take is an effort to get the ball into the hole, but sometimes it doesn't work out. I think intent play a big role in this whole argument.

I've also wondered why people don't just add penalty strokes or whatever to their score at the end of a round before they post it rather than intentionally flubbing chips or missing putts or whatever...

6 of one, half dozen the other I guess...

[Golffabrik]

I'm not a sandbagger, but lack of practice and only playing in tournaments has made my hcp. balloon in the last 2 years from 5.2 to 7.5. Now this doesn't sound like much, but as someone who has had a hcp. between 2-7 for the last 30 years, I know that a 7 index does not reflect my playing ability when I'm playing regularly.

For about a month, I went with my buddies for a 4 day golf trip in which I had the chance to practice a couple of hours and play at least 18 holes a day. On the last day I shot the best round of this year, a 3 over 75. The 4 days got my swing back in the groove, and my short game started to come back.

So what happens...I come home, play 2 more rounds the next week and then enter a club tourney...in which I shoot 2 over par or after slope adjustment a net 66. At the prize giving I had to listen to some clown loudly exclaiming that I was a sandbagger, and my hcp. should be reviewed by the commission.

The moral of my story is some people aren't sandbaggers by choice, but have just not played to their potential for an extended period of time. So be carefull not to judge people too fast...throwing unfounded accusations at people can blow up in your face.

[Golffabrik]

[quote name='dpark' post='1970929' date='Sep 25 2009, 06:54 AM'][quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='1970404' date='Sep 24 2009, 05:32 PM']Um ... okay? Can I be equally blunt? Not entirely certain why [i]this[/i] topic has anything to do with that topic. I've been playing golf for over four decades. Am 51.[i] Still [/i]play to a single digit cap.[/quote]
The topic does relate because it has to do with the Rules of Golf, and I don't think you know them nearly as well as you think you do, but want others to believe that you are an expert. BTW, having a single-digit handicap has nothing to do with understanding the Rules of Golf as your arrogant post that it is OK to move OB stakes if they interfere with your swing demonstrated.

[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='1970404' date='Sep 24 2009, 05:32 PM']Not saying I'm totally correct on every ruling, every opinion. (In fact, I've never met [i]anyone[/i] that is).[/quote]
Have you ever uttered three particular words? "I was wrong"? Do you realize that in your entire diatribe to me have not actually confessed to being wrong? You come off as a pompus know-it-all, daring other people to prove you wrong and even when others do that, you still never admit you are wrong. Yet, you get very irritated when you get called on it. Hmmm, sounds like a spoiled brat who is not used to being challenged. Grow up.

[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='1970404' date='Sep 24 2009, 05:32 PM']You want to look at a single opinion of mine, and on that basis, disregard everything I say in any future post (even if completely unrelated)? Cool dude. Totally go for it.

You wanna trash talk me for a single post out on more than a couple of years of fairly intelligent postys on WRX? Again ... go for it.[/quote]
When it comes to the Rules of Golf, quite simply, yes. That post pretty much ruined all your credibility, further enhanced by the fact that you are now trying to tie your single digit handicap as some sort of credibility foundation. That (your handicap) is something that has nothing to do with the other (knowledge of the Rules of Golf) as you have amply demonstrated.


[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='1970404' date='Sep 24 2009, 05:32 PM']And no, I'm not gonna let you slide.[/quote]
Same here.
[/quote]

Robin Williams in "Good Morning Vietnam":

[quote]I've never met someone more desperately in need of a BJ[/quote]

[fighting_irish]

I was a member of a club that weekly accepted BS scores from these tossers and did nothing to their handicap because they were "mates" with the committee. Counldn't be bothered playing hcap events anymore because of that experience. If all they want is to win a packet of skittles every weekend I think they've missed the point of golf.

[dpb5031]

[quote name='Golffabrik' post='1971046' date='Sep 25 2009, 04:53 AM']I'm not a sandbagger, but lack of practice and only playing in tournaments has made my hcp. balloon in the last 2 years from 5.2 to 7.5. Now this doesn't sound like much, but as someone who has had a hcp. between 2-7 for the last 30 years, I know that a 7 index does not reflect my playing ability when I'm playing regularly.

For about a month, I went with my buddies for a 4 day golf trip in which I had the chance to practice a couple of hours and play at least 18 holes a day. On the last day I shot the best round of this year, a 3 over 75. The 4 days got my swing back in the groove, and my short game started to come back.

So what happens...I come home, play 2 more rounds the next week and then enter a club tourney...in which I shoot 2 over par or after slope adjustment a net 66. At the prize giving I had to listen to some clown loudly exclaiming that I was a sandbagger, and my hcp. should be reviewed by the commission.

[b]The moral of my story is some people aren't sandbaggers by choice, but have just not played to their potential for an extended period of time. So be carefull not to judge people too fast...throwing unfounded accusations at people can blow up in your face.
[/b][/quote]
Agreed...it's the cheats who consistently win net events because of "the edge" that deserve the scrutiny.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

Sawgrass, thanks for the comments. You're right on, my home course is a rating of 130. I post using ESC which you're right in my case is max 8. I never refer to my posted score when I'm telling someone what I shot. As you know the ESC is for posting purposes only. My last 20 scores recently had some scores in the high 80's fall off and were replaced by more recent scores of upper 90's. Over the summer my index has gone from a 15.6 at the beginning to the current 19. When I looked at the scores that are being used to calculate the current index they ranged from 93 to 98 it seemed.

I guess what I was trying to say is I have at least 2 sometimes 4 of those blow up holes a round. Maybe it's unrealistice to think I'll have the magical round soon where I manage no worst than a double, but I can see the fallout if it does.

I don't know if I've cleared it up or not, but I appreciate you mentioning ESC, just in case I wasn't aware of it.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

pepper, thanks. I'm not too worried. I play by the rules, I post my actual score (using ESC when called for) and for the most part I always know where I'm going to shoot and place. I play in several events a year that have both a gross and net division. I've never placed very high in the net, it's not broken down by cap, just one big division.

There was one event a year ago or so when I was playing at 16 and I started out 1 over after 7 holes. I heard one of the other guys in the group grumble 16 my f'in a$$ or something to that affect. I would love to be able to say I let it roll off my back, but I must have let him get to me as I finished with bogey, quad, quin on the front.

I couldn't help myself from making a smartass comment to him on the 10th tee about, what his a** believed now and hoped he felt better. I know it was my fault for letting him get in my head, but I don't get why someone would be worried about someone else's handicap DURING and actual round, should't you just be worried about your next shot?

[Boogs2]

[quote name='joekelli' post='1967598' date='Sep 23 2009, 12:14 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='1967070' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:27 AM'][quote name='joekelli' post='1966932' date='Sep 22 2009, 09:05 PM']I think it is harder to sandbag in golf but I am sure there are guys who do. I also think someone can appear to be sandbagging but in reallity they are just concentrating more when something is on the line. I know there are times when I play I am trying to do something to make myself better, like hitting driver on every par 4 and 5 just to get better. My score might be higher but its not because I wasnt trying. If I was in a tournament I might only hit my driver a handfull of times. When there is something on the line I will play a lot smarter then I normally would.[/quote]
Then you should play to a tournament handicap since that is the real indicator of your true golfing ability.

I don't know you and don't know if you realized how some people would react to what you posted, but golfers like you are why I no longer play in net events.

You are a "sandbagger".

By your own admission, you don't play "smart" golf unless you are in a tournament which means your non-tournament scores are not indicative of your actual playing ability, which in turn means your handicap is not valid.

People who "concentrate more" when they are in a tournament or when "something is on the line" are sandbaggers. Period.
[/quote]

Just because I play smart golf when there is something on the line does not make me a sandbagger. I also do not participate in any handicap events! I play to a 3.6 index and I only keep track so I know how well I am doing. I have not played in an event in over 25 years. I am planning on getting in some tournaments next season but they will be scratch tournaments. I do the same with bowling, I do not play in any tournament that requires a handicap. I[b][u] kind of have my own rule "If I cant beat you heads up then I do not deserve to win!"
[/u][/b][/quote]

That right there deserves an applause and a standing ovation!!!! I dont care who it is, even if its the best player in the world, if I cant beat you head to head then i feel like any other way is cheating.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Carolina Golfer 2' post='1971183' date='Sep 25 2009, 06:01 AM']pepper, thanks. I'm not too worried. I play by the rules, I post my actual score (using ESC when called for) and for the most part I always know where I'm going to shoot and place. I play in several events a year that have both a gross and net division. I've never placed very high in the net, it's not broken down by cap, just one big division.

There was one event a year ago or so when I was playing at 16 and I started out 1 over after 7 holes. I heard one of the other guys in the group grumble 16 my f'in a$$ or something to that affect. I would love to be able to say I let it roll off my back, but I must have let him get to me as I finished with bogey, quad, quin on the front.

I couldn't help myself from making a smartass comment to him on the 10th tee about, what his a** believed now and hoped he felt better. I know it was my fault for letting him get in my head, but I don't get why someone would be worried about someone else's handicap DURING and actual round, should't you just be worried about your next shot?[/quote]

Yes, only concern yourself with the next shot and ignore your playing partners; more importantly what might be said during a game or tournament. It's hard to know what their intentions are so it's best not to listen or talk except to be polite. The mistake you made was listening; the even bigger mistake was emotionally reacting. Reacting your demeanor went from golf to emotions and the idiot. Whether he really questioned your index or not, he got what he likely wanted when your game went in the tank.

I am boring to play golf with when $$$ are at stake or I am in a tournament. No game $$$ I'll joke around and enjoy the camaraderie. But, I try and stay away from my playing partners as much as possible during a tournament, or any type of game because they are usually playing off my ball so I have to play my best. It’s surprising how much that bugs some people, including causal friends. For me, that’s the only way I can maintain my focus and give myself a chance to win. I work at keeping my ball in the fairway and only take chances when the percentages are in my favor.

I often use my trusty 2 iron off the tee of tight holes choosing fairway and position over greater yardage, and possibly the junk. Good players don't say much about the games of others, just applaud great shots. It's the mid-hi indexers that I’ve seen have little focus on their games. I’ve had guys attempt messing with my head by asking questions or bringing up various hot topics; I ignore them. The most annoying common question for me is why I didn't use my driver more. You'd think course Mgt would be the obvious answer. Some strangers have gone so far as to say “are you having trouble with your driver”. I respond with a smile and put a line drive 2 iron down the middle 215-220yds, and then say it’s your turn. Surprising how quickly that shuts them up.

Just watch out for those that talk at barely audible levels. If you're trying to hear what's being said, you’re not focused on your next shot or conditions.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='1971530' date='Sep 25 2009, 12:42 PM'][quote name='Carolina Golfer 2' post='1971183' date='Sep 25 2009, 06:01 AM']pepper, thanks. I'm not too worried. I play by the rules, I post my actual score (using ESC when called for) and for the most part I always know where I'm going to shoot and place. I play in several events a year that have both a gross and net division. I've never placed very high in the net, it's not broken down by cap, just one big division.

There was one event a year ago or so when I was playing at 16 and I started out 1 over after 7 holes. I heard one of the other guys in the group grumble 16 my f'in a$$ or something to that affect. I would love to be able to say I let it roll off my back, but I must have let him get to me as I finished with bogey, quad, quin on the front.

I couldn't help myself from making a smartass comment to him on the 10th tee about, what his a** believed now and hoped he felt better. I know it was my fault for letting him get in my head, but I don't get why someone would be worried about someone else's handicap DURING and actual round, should't you just be worried about your next shot?[/quote]

Yes, only concern yourself with the next shot and ignore your playing partners; more importantly what might be said during a game or tournament. It's hard to know what their intentions are so it's best not to listen or talk except to be polite. The mistake you made was listening; the even bigger mistake was emotionally reacting. Reacting your demeanor went from golf to emotions and the idiot. Whether he really questioned your index or not, he got what he likely wanted when your game went in the tank.

I am boring to play golf with when $$$ are at stake or I am in a tournament. No game $$$ I'll joke around and enjoy the camaraderie. But, I try and stay away from my playing partners as much as possible during a tournament, or any type of game because they are usually playing off my ball so I have to play my best. It’s surprising how much that bugs some people, including causal friends. For me, that’s the only way I can maintain my focus and give myself a chance to win. I work at keeping my ball in the fairway and only take chances when the percentages are in my favor.

I often use my trusty 2 iron off the tee of tight holes choosing fairway and position over greater yardage, and possibly the junk. Good players don't say much about the games of others, just applaud great shots. It's the mid-hi indexers that I’ve seen have little focus on their games. I’ve had guys attempt messing with my head by asking questions or bringing up various hot topics; I ignore them. The most annoying common question for me is why I didn't use my driver more. You'd think course Mgt would be the obvious answer. Some strangers have gone so far as to say “are you having trouble with your driver”. I respond with a smile and put a line drive 2 iron down the middle 215-220yds, and then say it’s your turn. Surprising how quickly that shuts them up.

Just watch out for those that talk at barely audible levels. If you're trying to hear what's being said, you’re not focused on your next shot or conditions.
[/quote]
All good advice there. You're right I most likely gave him the satisfaction he was looking for. I usually take a que from other players in a pairing in a tournament, if they want to chat I usually will, if they are quiet, I won't initiate conversation. I probably need to find what style fits me and stick with that mode regardless of the other players, chatty like Trevino or dead quiet like Tiger or Faldo.

In a way that seems just as important part of your game as picking your pre shot routine and sticking to it every time. Although I'm a mid to high capper, I would never presume to question someone I don't know about why they hit what they did. Hell, even my regular playing partners I dont' do that in casual matches. I figure they had a reason for it and if they want to share they will or the answer would be obvious like you said.

One guy I play with is 56 (6 years older than me) he hits his 3 wood in the neighborhood of 240 to 250 with a nice penetrating draw. No need to ask him why he doesn't hit driver all the time

[Pepperturbo]

I question the choices some mid-hi caps make, but unless asked or it's posted in places like this I always kept those questions to myself. Anyways, have a good wkend and keep them in the short grass if you play.

[joekelli]

[quote name='ionakana511' post='1971201' date='Sep 25 2009, 09:27 AM'][quote name='joekelli' post='1967598' date='Sep 23 2009, 12:14 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='1967070' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:27 AM'][quote name='joekelli' post='1966932' date='Sep 22 2009, 09:05 PM']I think it is harder to sandbag in golf but I am sure there are guys who do. I also think someone can appear to be sandbagging but in reallity they are just concentrating more when something is on the line. I know there are times when I play I am trying to do something to make myself better, like hitting driver on every par 4 and 5 just to get better. My score might be higher but its not because I wasnt trying. If I was in a tournament I might only hit my driver a handfull of times. When there is something on the line I will play a lot smarter then I normally would.[/quote]
Then you should play to a tournament handicap since that is the real indicator of your true golfing ability.

I don't know you and don't know if you realized how some people would react to what you posted, but golfers like you are why I no longer play in net events.

You are a "sandbagger".

By your own admission, you don't play "smart" golf unless you are in a tournament which means your non-tournament scores are not indicative of your actual playing ability, which in turn means your handicap is not valid.

People who "concentrate more" when they are in a tournament or when "something is on the line" are sandbaggers. Period.
[/quote]

Just because I play smart golf when there is something on the line does not make me a sandbagger. I also do not participate in any handicap events! I play to a 3.6 index and I only keep track so I know how well I am doing. I have not played in an event in over 25 years. I am planning on getting in some tournaments next season but they will be scratch tournaments. I do the same with bowling, I do not play in any tournament that requires a handicap. I[b][u] kind of have my own rule "If I cant beat you heads up then I do not deserve to win!"
[/u][/b][/quote]

That right there deserves an applause and a standing ovation!!!! I dont care who it is, even if its the best player in the world, if I cant beat you head to head then i feel like any other way is cheating.
[/quote]

Thanks for the standing O!!!!!!

At the end of the day even if you beat the best player because you were getting strokes, you still know he is better than you!

I hate it when I am playing with someone and they want to play low round for a buck and then start trying to figure how many strokes I should give them. I will usually just say nevermind. Even if Tiger Woods came up to me and wanted to play I would not ask him for strokes! If I am going to play for money I will only play against someone of my same skill level and then its heads up after that. I guess its the whole reason I liked Street racing when I was younger. It was a "run what ya brung" thing. If the guy you were racing had a faster car you got beat. If I wanted to win more I made changes to the car to make it faster.

[dpark]

[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='1972359' date='Sep 25 2009, 06:42 PM']Totally cool! I love it! I could answer you ... but instead? I'll let people just read this exhange. Let's both appear as we are. They'll (perhaps) decide which one of us has "credibility" ... and which one [i]inititated[/i] a personal attack for no apparent reason.

Kinda weird ... never occured to me anyone here thought I was an expert at anything. I just give my opinions on things. Don't even [i]claim[/i] to be right all the time. (In fact, I've said mea culpa more than once ... KevCarter is my rules guy here ... I learn from [i]him[/i]).

You ... dude, I do not even know who you are ... nor why you'd feel the need to come after me personally. Sorta weird really. But if it gets you hard ... I mean, go for it.

I'll even voluntarily say "you win". Woo Hoo!!!! You totally rock!!! [i]No one[/i] should listen to me, 'cause I made that, like, post about something, that one time.

Good grief.[/quote]

Let's just add some relevant background to this exchange, specifically your knowlegeable, assertive and rude responses to a question regarding moving OB stakes even after other people corrected you:

I am sure that in your mind, you still aren't wrong, but whatever....

[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='1898158' date='Aug 18 2009, 05:00 PM']No stake of [i]any[/i] kind is an obstruction you need to live with ... white stakes, yellow, red, the 200, 150, 100 stakes, the stakes in the ground holding ropes indicating cart path only. These are artificial. You [i]don't[/i] get a drop. You [i]can[/i] (and should) remove the stake.[/quote]

[quote name='TigerStrong' post='1898167' date='Aug 18 2009, 04:04 PM']Wrong dude out of bounds stakes are not removable which are white stakes[/quote]

[quote name='midasmulligan2000' post='1898728' date='Aug 18 2009, 07:10 PM']Good grief ... this is actually an argument?

I'd invite anyone posting here to show me a [i]single[/i] instance ... in the last two or three [i]decades[/i], of the PGA Tour ... where a PGA Tour player hit a "white stake" (or red stake, or blue stake, or ANY freaking stake) on their backswing, because it is "impermissable" to take a stake out of the ground.

This is just insane.

Is this a MySpace golf discussion board, or one actually composed of golfers? (Sorry if that sounds demeaning ... but its like having an argument about whether one should, or should not reprair a divot, or whether the golfer farthest from the hole should should before the golfer nearest ... this isn't even a freaking question).[/quote]

[quote name='Tmiller72' post='1898806' date='Aug 18 2009, 07:29 PM']Here's one where a player took the stake out because it was in his way. [url="http://articles.latimes.com/1992-04-26/sports/sp-1509_1_phone-calls"]http://articles.latimes.com/1992-04-26/spo...9_1_phone-calls[/url][/quote]

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=292130&st=0&p=1898728&#entry1898728"]http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry1898728[/url]

[trionz420]

sandbaggers are cheaters
reverse sandbaggers are like guys with lil members with big muscles

[Carolina Golfer 2]

Joek, I agree with you 100 percent. I stated earier that I play in some events that have gross and net divisions. Trust me if I could only play in the gross events I would, but some of those in my area have max index limts of 5 or 6, for a good reason. But I play in the net events, because I love to compete and that's my only venue. Sure there are a couple open events or gross events that don't have a cap limit, and I have played in one or two of those, but realistically I was one of only a couple guys with a double digit HC and while I wouldn't say I was intimidated, I did kind of get the feeling that some of them though "Why would you even enter this if you don't have a chance"

Anyway, like you playing casual rounds, I don't take strokes no matter if I'm playing a buddy that's a 10 or scratch. I think they kind of appreicate that...LOL especially when it comes to collecting But I believe that is the way the game is supposed to be played, and whether or not I ever get my game to the point where I can compete in gross events or not, so be it.

[dannydesiliva]

Wow, nice recommendation, I'm digging the hell out of ep. 1 and 2. Can't wait for the rest on Netflix. Thanks,







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[mozgolf]

Lawyers, used car salesmen and real estate agents have to play a sport as well!!!!

Oops best i run away and put on my flameproof nomex, thats my gross generalisation and round about way of saying that you will probably find those that cheat at golf wont have any qualms about doing it in other walks of life

[Bobcat 2]

Reminds me of the time I shot 87 with a 20 hcp., didn't win anything as the winners went far lower but a few people called me a sandbagger. A lot of the critics to me are just sore losers they played so bad that day.

[trionz420]

nah ur just terrible lol