Choose Your Own Tees in a Tournament

[The Natural]

I run a league with about 12 guys in it ranging from 6-30 handicappers. We have stroke play tournaments every couple of weeks during the summer. With so few players, we don't want to flight the group so we've always played shorter tees to accomodate the higher handicappers. Some of the lower handicappers wish to play from longer tees so this year we are thinking of allowing players to choose their own tees. I know every set of tees has it's own slope/rating and how to adjust everyone's course handicaps based on that. The USGA says it should be equitable, but I have doubts. I'm interested in getting any first hand experiences from anyone playing in a tournament that allowed this. Was it fair allowing people to play from different tees and compete against one another? Did the players from the longer or shorter tees seem to have an advantage?

[OpusX20]

When I was a club pro, we did the "choose your own tee" thing a few times. I looked to see if I could detect any advantage for a particular group. In general, it didn't seem to matter all that much. The one "profile" that this would favor a little bit is your long hitting high handicapper. For them, they pick up a couple of extra shots by moving back a tee box, but the distance doesn't really hurt them.

My experience seemed to indicate this "advantage" was minor, and may have even been perception on my part, since I never did any detailed statistical analysis. The handicap system isn't perfect anyway. So, I wouldn't let the potential of someone getting a tiny advantage get in the way of the group playing the tees they want and having a good time. Just me $.02.

[Speedly]

I'd think this is just something you'd have to do by trial and error, mostly. It really depends on the club and the course setup.

Have you ever been at a course where the USGA rating seems... off? Where the teeboxes are always just in a straight line, but somehow moving back six more feet on the same line magically gets you two more strokes?

On courses like that, I'd say your plan wouldn't work very well. But if you feel the tees are rated accurately, I say, why not give it a shot? I would think that if you make it clear that the first time doing it is more of an experiment than a tournament, people would understand. (But make sure to still have reasonable prizes - gotta bait that hook, you know? )

[Onebulldogs]

Although I have no data to back it up, I think it will be more equitable. Most low-handicappers I know got their handicaps from the back tees. Most high handicappers I know get their handicaps from the "white" tees. If all the players are playing from their "normal" tees, the results should be more "normal."

[2bGood]

I play in game with 15 other guys with wide range of caps (Scratch to 24). We play pick your own tee's. Two things i have noticed: Guys tend to play further back then the should out of pride and no real pattern to who wins.

In the game we play the high handicapper seems to have the best chance of getting the low net (regardless of tees), but we also play skins with all 16 guys with the rule that a natural gets the skin which evens this out.

[Sawgrass]

I've played in tournaments where there was a new set of tees developed just for the tournament, usually placed between the blues and whites, with a specialized slope and rating. It seemed to keep everybody happy.

Typically on holes with long carries from the tee, the tournament tee would be near the whites, on some others closer to the blues.

[DaveLeeNC]

Our Men's Golf Association recently changed our procedures allowing anyone who wishes to 'play up one set of tees' (with the appropriate handicap adjustment, of course). While this is 4-man team stuff (so not directly applicable to a stroke play tournament), the data that we have collected so far does not indicate any particular change in winning patterns as a function of the tees chosen.

For the most part this has been very well received, although there are always complaints about the 'additional' course rating difference adjustment.

dave

[SNIPERBBB]

Just remember to laugh at the guys that picked the red tees and turn-in(or refuse to turn-in) their scorecards and shot horribly. For someone that is not familiar with the course, they could be at an advantage with the reds.Someone familiar with the course may find that playing off the red tees get stuck in unfamiliar angles or running through fairways or hitting hazards they normally would not hit from their normal tees.

[Speedly]

[quote name='SNIPERBBB' date='03 April 2010 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1270348057' post='2359233']
Just remember to laugh at the guys that picked the red tees and turn-in(or refuse to turn-in) their scorecards and shot horribly. For someone that is not familiar with the course, they could be at an advantage with the reds.Someone familiar with the course may find that playing off the red tees get stuck in unfamiliar angles or running through fairways or hitting hazards they normally would not hit from their normal tees.
[/quote]

Wait... so you're supposed to laugh at everyone that plays from the reds? You can either turn in or not turn in your card, there's no third option... and why would someone unfamiliar with the course be at an advantage? I'd think not knowing the course would be a disadvantage, if anything, because the experienced players would know where not to put the ball.

I play from the reds because I'm awful and I know it, and I'm ok with admitting it. When I get better, I'll gladly move back.

[2bGood]

[quote name='SNIPERBBB' date='03 April 2010 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1270348057' post='2359233']
Just remember to laugh at the guys that picked the red tees and turn-in(or refuse to turn-in) their scorecards and shot horribly. For someone that is not familiar with the course, they could be at an advantage with the reds.Someone familiar with the course may find that playing off the red tees get stuck in unfamiliar angles or running through fairways or hitting hazards they normally would not hit from their normal tees.
[/quote]

You must love slow play. For the record, we all want golfers to play the tee that best aply to their ability and we need not laugh at them for doing that. Doing anything to encourage a golf to play at longer tees then their they have the skills to play is dumb, slows the game down and we all have less fun.

[Sawgrass]

I read SniperBBB's post as simply meaning that the red tees may not be as easy as you think. Shorter distances than you're used to on a course can screw up your game. He was saying that guys who pick the reds to gain a competitive advantage may not prosper, so one might laugh at their folly.

[jjj912]

[quote name='Sawgrass' date='06 April 2010 - 09:56 AM' timestamp='1270562217' post='2363409']
I read SniperBBB's post as simply meaning that the red tees may not be as easy as you think. Shorter distances than you're used to on a course can screw up your game. He was saying that guys who pick the reds to gain a competitive advantage may not prosper, so one might laugh at their folly.
[/quote]

I agree. I'll bet SniperBBB has seen a 15 handicap move to reds thinking he's going to shoot 75 and then shoots 90.

[SNIPERBBB]

We have a handicapped match play tournament every year where the low cap decides whether to play the ball up or down and the higher cap picks the tees. The lower caps that get stuck on the red tees struggle a bit with overshooting a few fairways or into trouble they normally dont reach if they are lacking in the common sense course management issues.

[Bobcat 2]

This is not really on point but my thought is all players should start on the reds until they can break 90 then move to the whites and again at 90 move back, regardless of how long they hit their great shots on occaision. this puts far more focus on the short game and overall people would improve much quicker. I was pleased to read some people elect to play from the reds. To me driver/three wood or 3 hybrid each hole just isn't golf the way it was intended to be played. When your reg+1 or+2 on the green every hole, the putts just don't mean as much as if they were for par or birdie.

[GaHack1]

Our MGA does it all the time. According to the USGA we are required to apply section 3-5 of the handicap manual.

http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/understanding_handicap/articles/different_tees.html#

Check this out for directions on how to adjust. Works pretty good most of the time. We use the TPP program to run our tournaments an it has a selection to apply this rule. You can chose to adjust from the lower rated tees or the higher rated tees. We usually go from the lower rates so the senior tee handicaps stay the same but the whites and blues are adjusted up.

There is more than just slope and course rating involved.

[doof_dizzler]

[quote name='OpusX20' date='02 April 2010 - 03:49 PM' timestamp='1270244961' post='2357279']
When I was a club pro, we did the "choose your own tee" thing a few times. I looked to see if I could detect any advantage for a particular group. In general, it didn't seem to matter all that much. The one "profile" that this would favor a little bit is your long hitting high handicapper. For them, they pick up a couple of extra shots by moving back a tee box, but the distance doesn't really hurt them.

My experience seemed to indicate this "advantage" was minor, and may have even been perception on my part, since I never did any detailed statistical analysis. The handicap system isn't perfect anyway. So, I wouldn't let the potential of someone getting a tiny advantage get in the way of the group playing the tees they want and having a good time. Just me $.02.


[/quote]

[b][i]
long hitting high handicapper?[/i][/b] Is that what you guys call sandbaggers where you're from?


[quote name='Bobcat 2' date='12 April 2010 - 01:27 PM' timestamp='1271100445' post='2375689']
This is not really on point but my thought is all players should start on the reds until they can break 90 then move to the whites and again at 90 move back, regardless of how long they hit their great shots on occaision. this puts far more focus on the short game and overall people would improve much quicker. I was pleased to read some people elect to play from the reds. To me driver/three wood or 3 hybrid each hole just isn't golf the way it was intended to be played. When your reg+1 or+2 on the green every hole, the putts just don't mean as much as if they were for par or birdie.
[/quote]

Totally true. I'm only just getting to the point where I play the blues almost all the time. I was 15 index for a full year before I moved back. Probably half my rounds last year from whites, half from blues. I still usually have 1 or 2 clubs more into the greens than the guys I play with. I guess I'm happy enough hitting 6i or a hybrid when they have an 8 in their hands, it's not how, it's how many! Short game helps lots!

[Speedly]

[quote][b][i]long hitting high handicapper?[/i][/b] Is that what you guys call sandbaggers where you're from?[/quote]
Well, if I'm on, I can put it out 250-260 all day, but I'm a 26 HC. My long irons and short game suck (to a lesser extent than the irons), although I don't think I'm all that bad at putting. But I can't hit greens for crap, and when I can, I can't place the ball for crap. Trust me, the handicap is totally legitimate.

But I hear ya.