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[Top Dog]

I took out the flagstick and laid it a bit away from the hole. I then putted and saw that it was going to hit the flag and I asked my mate to move the flag. The ball hit the flag. He says the ball hit the flag before he moved it but I am not sure. Does the have an effect on the ruling? Is it a 2 shot penalty to me? Is he deemed to be attending the flag as he is next to it?

[jaskanski]

Sorry, but you get get a 2 stroke penalty and your mate is not attending the flag anyway since it has been placed on the ground by yourself. Your opponent is certainly under no obligation to move the flag upon your request if you think it may strike the flag if you have putted too firmly - moreover, your opponent would incur the penalty for moving the flagstick (moving an obstruction which might influence the movement of the ball). Note to self: keep flagstick [b]completely[/b] out of your line of putt.

[Top Dog]

Thanks, that was pretty much what I thought. I wasn't a serious thing we were playing so it had no effect really but it is good to know for the future.

[Newby]

[quote name='jaskanski' date='18 April 2010 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1271618724' post='2386514']
- moreover, your opponent would incur the penalty for moving the flagstick (moving an obstruction which might influence the movement of the ball). Note to self: keep flagstick [b]completely[/b] out of your line of putt.
[/quote]

There is [b]no[/b] penalty to anyone for moving a flagstick that is attended,[b] removed [/b]or held up.

[jaskanski]

[quote name='Newby' date='18 April 2010 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1271626098' post='2386655']
[quote name='jaskanski' date='18 April 2010 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1271618724' post='2386514']
- moreover, your opponent would incur the penalty for moving the flagstick (moving an obstruction which might influence the movement of the ball). Note to self: keep flagstick [b]completely[/b] out of your line of putt.
[/quote]

There is [b]no[/b] penalty to anyone for moving a flagstick that is attended,[b] removed [/b]or held up.
[/quote]


But according to the OP, the flagstick was not [b]attended[/b] was it? The player laid it behind the hole himself. His opponent has no obligation to attend the flag unless requested before the player putts and he can decline the request to attend the flag - the player has no redress. Bad form, but totally within the rules.
Usually most people will comply with the simple request of attending the flag though:
The player can request his opponent to attend the flag before he putts, but not after he has putted and the ball is in motion. Any request to move the flag by the player could have an influence on the ball whilst it is in motion and if the opponent moved it, he would be subject to penalty. Bottom line, from the OP's account of what happened, is that he should have requested his opponent to attend the flag [b]before[/b] he putted.

[Sawgrass]

- moreover, your opponent would incur the penalty for moving the flagstick (moving an obstruction which might influence the movement of the ball). Note to self: keep flagstick completely out of your line of putt.

 

There is no penalty to anyone for moving a flagstick that is attended, removed or held up.

 

 

But according to the OP, the flagstick was not attended was it? The player laid it behind the hole himself. His opponent has no obligation to attend the flag unless requested before the player putts and he can decline the request to attend the flag - the player has no redress. Bad form, but totally within the rules.

Usually most people will comply with the simple request of attending the flag though:

The player can request his opponent to attend the flag before he putts, but not after he has putted and the ball is in motion. Any request to move the flag by the player could have an influence on the ball whilst it is in motion and if the opponent moved it, he would be subject to penalty. Bottom line, from the OP's account of what happened, is that he should have requested his opponent to attend the flag before he putted.

 

The following decisions will underscore Newby's wisdom. Note that once the flagstick is removed from the hole, things have changed:

 

17-1/6 Attended Flagstick Placed on Ground Subsequently Lifted

 

Q. While a ball is in motion after a stroke, the person attending the flagstick removes it and places it on the ground. He then realizes the ball might strike the flagstick, so he picks it up. What is the ruling?

 

A. There is no penalty. A flagstick that is attended, removed, or held up may be moved by anyone even if doing so could influence the movement of a ball in motion (Rule 24-1). (Revised)

 

17-1/7 Removed Flagstick Placed on Ground Subsequently Lifted

 

Q. A, the opponent or fellow-competitor of B, removes the flagstick from the hole and places it on the ground. B putts and A, who is standing within reach of the removed flagstick, realizes that B's ball might strike the removed flagstick, so he picks the flagstick up. What is the ruling?

 

A. There is no penalty — see Rule <A href="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14300#24-1">24-1. (Revised)

 

 

[Newby]

See Rule 24-1 last para.