Just Make Me Feel Better

[rony]

Question For the Older Set

Seems to me that back in the day, I could pick up any club and hit a decent shot with no problem. (Say you borrow someone's club for a shot at the range.) Now, being 69 years old, using my fitted Ping G10 Clubs with the Graphite Shafts and Soft Regular Flex, I hit virtually every shot very well. Really, I have a nice, smooth tempo swing and am extremely accurate, with decent yardage for my age. Here's the point; if I try to swing any other club, I look like I never hit a golf ball in my life! It MUST be because as we age, our swing speed goes way down, and we need the GI clubs to help us square the club face. Please tell me I'm right about that. ????????? :huh:

[farmer]

I have no answer for you, but at 60, I am happy to hear that you can still play at 69.

[Ridgecrest18]

[quote name='rony' timestamp='1306167146' post='3255951']
It MUST be because as we age, our swing speed goes way down, and we need the GI clubs to help us square the club face. Please tell me I'm right about that. ?????????
[/quote]

11 years your junior, but I must disagree with your entire presumption. No doubt the swing speed drops a bit... No doubt that flexibilty may become an issue... But I sincerely doubt the need for "GI clubs" is a consequence of age.

I certainly get the "nod and wink" of your post, and would offer father-time is more of an asset than a hindrance... As a slow smooth turn through the ball is paramount to a well struck blade. I'm happy to leave the "bomb and gouge" proclivities of the cavity-backs to the young and uninformed.

[Dscvrr St Louis]

[quote name='rony' timestamp='1306167146' post='3255951']
Seems to me that back in the day, I could pick up any club and hit a decent shot with no problem. (Say you borrow someone's club for a shot at the range.) Now, being 69 years old, using my fitted Ping G10 Clubs with the Graphite Shafts and Soft Regular Flex, I hit virtually every shot very well. Really, I have a nice, smooth tempo swing and am extremely accurate, with decent yardage for my age. Here's the point; if I try to swing any other club, I look like I never hit a golf ball in my life! It MUST be because as we age, our swing speed goes way down, and we need the GI clubs to help us square the club face. Please tell me I'm right about that. ?????????
[/quote]


What you are right about was getting FITTED for YOUR clubs, not someone else's you pick up and hit on a whim. When younger, we have much more of an overlap of swing speeds that allow us to, within our ability, hit just about anything fairly well, even if we have never hit it. Everyone is different...some can putt with a stick, or hit a ball with any type of iron, or drive the ball reasonably well with any driver. But the players that get fitted, regardless of age, should hit their clubs better than most anything else out there..unless there really wasn't any thing too odd in the fitting. Your confidence level with your Pings is obviously high and other clubs won't reach those expectations all the time. No biggie!!

enjoy!!

[jmvargas]

i will be turning 66 in october and went to all graphite clubs about 5 years ago....at our age it's all about getting the right shaft for our swing..,

i have a 95 mph ss with the driver and use the lightest R flex shaft for my woods and 70 gram shafts in my irons...

i am also into sub-300 gram drivers with sub-50 gram shafts..

i can still carry the driver about 230 yds and my 7-iron 145 yds..

PS..i have been playing golf for the past 53 years...got as low as a 3 hdcp but now a 9..

[rony]

[quote name='Ridgecrest18' timestamp='1306208816' post='3257494']
[quote name='rony' timestamp='1306167146' post='3255951']
It MUST be because as we age, our swing speed goes way down, and we need the GI clubs to help us square the club face. Please tell me I'm right about that. ?????????
[/quote]

11 years your junior, but I must disagree with your entire presumption. No doubt the swing speed drops a bit... No doubt that flexibilty may become an issue... But I sincerely doubt the need for "GI clubs" is a consequence of age.

I certainly get the "nod and wink" of your post, and would offer father-time is more of an asset than a hindrance... As a slow smooth turn through the ball is paramount to a well struck blade. I'm happy to leave the "bomb and gouge" proclivities of the cavity-backs to the young and uninformed.
[/quote]


Well I'm happy for you. (But you are not even a Senior yet.) I work as a Ranger part time on an extremely active and beautiful town course here on Long Island, so I not only play a lot of golf but I watch a lot of golf and golfers of every size, shape, age, and skill level. MGA Tournament level players, 18-35 yr old "Long Knockers" who are GIR from the Tips over 60% of the time, 4 Index and lower...........Yes, I see "BLADES". Aside from that, I see very few. Virtually ZERO among Senior players.

[Ridgecrest18]

[quote name='rony' timestamp='1306245130' post='3258043']
[quote name='Ridgecrest18' timestamp='1306208816' post='3257494']
I certainly get the "nod and wink" of your post, and would offer that father-time is more of an asset than a hindrance... As a slow smooth turn through the ball is paramount to a well struck blade. I'm happy to leave the "bomb and gouge" proclivities of the cavity-backs to the young and uninformed.
[/quote]


Well I'm happy for you. (But you are not even a Senior yet.) I work as a Ranger part time on an extremely active and beautiful town course here on Long Island, so I not only play a lot of golf but I watch a lot of golf and golfers of every size, shape, age, and skill level. MGA Tournament level players, 18-35 yr old "Long Knockers" who are GIR from the Tips over 60% of the time, 4 Index and lower...........Yes, I see "BLADES". Aside from that, I see very few. Virtually ZERO among Senior players.
[/quote]

Your comments suggest several things to me... First, that not everything "mellows with age". Second, that you might want to ease up on the caffine. And finally, that you missed the point of my post.

While I do not meet your sexagenarian definition of "Senior", it is my sincere belief that 58 years are sufficient to provide most of us with an insight as to how we view this past-time. The point of my post was not to challenge your club selection, but to note that the [b]salient[/b] goal of Golf... [i]a purposeful swing, leading to a well stuck shot, resulting in an intended outcome[/i].... should be better understood by an older player. My use of the term "Blade", while I prefer them, was intended as metaphoric, not as bragadocious.

Again, I got "nudge, nudge" of your original post and am sorry that you misunderstood the basis of mine.

[certifiedbodyman]

[quote name='Ridgecrest18' timestamp='1306208816' post='3257494']
[quote name='rony' timestamp='1306167146' post='3255951']
It MUST be because as we age, our swing speed goes way down, and we need the GI clubs to help us square the club face. Please tell me I'm right about that. ?????????
[/quote]

11 years your junior, but I must disagree with your entire presumption. No doubt the swing speed drops a bit... No doubt that flexibilty may become an issue... But I sincerely doubt the need for "GI clubs" is a consequence of age.

I certainly get the "nod and wink" of your post, and would offer father-time is more of an asset than a hindrance... As a slow smooth turn through the ball is paramount to a well struck blade. I'm happy to leave the "bomb and gouge" proclivities of the cavity-backs to the young and uninformed.
[/quote]

I've played golf a number of times with guys older than y'all and quite frankly I got SCHOOLED!...granted I hit the ball alot farther but they NEVER seemed to be in a bad position AND they chipped, pitcjhed and putted like Seve wished he could've...I guess some of it comes down to game management...if you don't have the shot don't try it...kow what you can do and play it...simple in theory huh

[pingman1]

[quote name='rony' timestamp='1306167146' post='3255951']
Seems to me that back in the day, I could pick up any club and hit a decent shot with no problem. (Say you borrow someone's club for a shot at the range.) Now, being 69 years old, using my fitted Ping G10 Clubs with the Graphite Shafts and Soft Regular Flex, I hit virtually every shot very well. Really, I have a nice, smooth tempo swing and am extremely accurate, with decent yardage for my age. Here's the point; if I try to swing any other club, I look like I never hit a golf ball in my life! It MUST be because as we age, our swing speed goes way down, and we need the GI clubs to help us square the club face. Please tell me I'm right about that. ?????????
[/quote]

The secret to golf longevity........PING. Bill, 64 years old.

[rvgolfer]

You got me thinking,,I'm very close to your age, 65.

The first set I remember playing with was a cheap Sam Snead set, driver, 3 wood, 3,5,7,9 and putter. I dont remember what lofts they were, or the shaft stiffness, and am not even sure I knew enough to find out. Next was a Ram set, cheap as well, but more clubs, driver and 3, 2-sw, gap and lob wedges didnt really exist at that point,

My next set was a set of 1972 Wilson Staffs, 2-sw, but even then still no loft or shaft stiffness or choice of graphite, but at that time, considered to be a nice set of blades. Played well with them for quite a few years, and then family and work obstructed my golf time. I do remember aluminum shafts coming out around that time frame,,but still no graphite.

Fast forward about to the mid-90's and bought a set of Ping Eye 2's with green dot lie. That was the first set where lie and loft actually was a choice for me.

Then got fitted for an awful set of Henry Griffits irons that were so over the top on lie and length, just to even hit them I had to make some significant swing changes just to make contact.

Then in 2007 retired and bought a set of clones cheap just to get back to something normal in lies and loft, and then in 2008 bought a set of graphite shafted clones with standard lofts, and moved from a 9.5 driver to 10.5. And have played nearly 300 rounds up thru 12 of 2011 with them.

Now just recently bought a new set of G-20's with blue dot, and steel regular shafts. My first practice swing with them felt heavy, the UW is a D6 mostly due to 1" over length, and felt quite a bit heavier than my old set. Took them to the course and within 2-3 holes they were feeling better, and by the time I finished 18, was very happy with them.

My point is,,when we were young we just didnt know any difference in clubs, except the Brand name, and as we have aged, our knowledge has increased and our choices have been expanded to include lofts, length, lies, SGI, shafts, grips, and etc. So as we gain awareness, it also becomes more noticeable, and even slight differences can be felt. And when you feel a difference, it just takes longer to adjust to a different feel, plus being retired and playing far more frequently, those differences are more noticeable when you pick up another type of club. My guess if you actually put them in your bag and played 18 with them, you would make adjustments and begin to hit them better, so its not age that creates the problem, its your knowledge and being fine tuned in awareness due to playing frequently with your current set that creates a situation of uncomfortable strangeness that translates into looking like you never hit a golf ball in your life.

[rony]

RV: Good post. You are absolutely correct about being retired and playing more frequently. I am now 70. I played roughly 50 18 hole rounds last season. I feel I have a better command of my game now than I did when I was in my 40's. Quite simply, I play much more and quickly fix little swing faults when they pop up. I can only carry a Driver about 230 yards Max! But......98% of those drives are dead center in the fairway. I'm NEVER more than 10 yards off the fairway on either side. I learned how to be that accurate when I was 67 years old. I enjoy golf so much more now than when I was younger. I get up on that Tee Box, and I KNOW where the ball is going! I have three Sons who are all 6 Index or better and while they Tee from the blue and I use the white, I still win once in a while. They marvel at my accuracy. I tell them that accuracy is what us "Old Guys" work on.........Not distance. (LOL)

[sweetswingin]

I have to agree with this gentleman. While I'm not in his age group as I get older I enjoy the game and the company of others much more. It great to strike the ball well and have great days on the golf course but it is not the end game. My father once told me to enjoy my time on the course, there are 100 million Chinese who don't give a damn what I shoot. .[quote name='rony' timestamp='1325265059' post='4005563']
RV: Good post. You are absolutely correct about being retired and playing more frequently. I am now 70. I played roughly 50 18 hole rounds last season. I feel I have a better command of my game now than I did when I was in my 40's. Quite simply, I play much more and quickly fix little swing faults when they pop up. I can only carry a Driver about 230 yards Max! But......98% of those drives are dead center in the fairway. I'm NEVER more than 10 yards off the fairway on either side. I learned how to be that accurate when I was 67 years old. I enjoy golf so much more now than when I was younger. I get up on that Tee Box, and I KNOW where the ball is going! I have three Sons who are all 6 Index or better and while they Tee from the blue and I use the white, I still win once in a while. They marvel at my accuracy. I tell them that accuracy is what us "Old Guys" work on.........Not distance. (LOL)
[/quote]

[Nspiel58]

[quote name='rony' timestamp='1306167146' post='3255951']
Seems to me that back in the day, I could pick up any club and hit a decent shot with no problem. (Say you borrow someone's club for a shot at the range.) Now, being 69 years old, using my fitted Ping G10 Clubs with the Graphite Shafts and Soft Regular Flex, I hit virtually every shot very well. Really, I have a nice, smooth tempo swing and am extremely accurate, with decent yardage for my age. Here's the point; if I try to swing any other club, I look like I never hit a golf ball in my life! It MUST be because as we age, our swing speed goes way down, and we need the GI clubs to help us square the club face. Please tell me I'm right about that. ?????????
[/quote]


The first thing I thought of when I read your post was, were the shafts on these other clubs the same "soft regular flex" as on your own clubs? If they were any different, and I assume they were, then that's going to make quite a difference in how the ball comes off the club. Since your Pings were "fitted", the loft and lie have to be taken into account as well. It's like using a 33" baseball bat during most of the season, and then taking a 36" one day and expecting similar results. It's not going to happen. You may have tried too hard to swing properly and tightened up as another example. These are just a few examples which illustrate that the clubs you swung were not suited to your individual swing characterisitics.

[Blade Junkie]

[quote name='rvgolfer' timestamp='1325261084' post='4005357']

My point is,,when we were young [b]we just didnt know any difference in clubs[/b], except the Brand name, and as we have aged, our knowledge has increased and our choices have been expanded to include lofts, length, lies, SGI, shafts, grips, and etc. So as we gain awareness, it also becomes more noticeable, and even slight differences can be felt. And when you feel a difference, it just takes longer to adjust to a different feel, plus being retired and playing far more frequently, those differences are more noticeable when you pick up another type of club. My guess if you actually put them in your bag and played 18 with them, you would make adjustments and begin to hit them better, so its not age that creates the problem, its your knowledge and being fine tuned in awareness due to playing frequently with your current set that creates a situation of uncomfortable strangeness that translates into looking like you never hit a golf ball in your life.
[/quote]

I forget where I read it, and it might even have been somewhere in the Golf Museum in St Andrews, which I visited recently and highly recommend, but there was a study done on a load of 5 handicap golfers on shaft differences. They were given 5 different clubs, but weren't told what the (unmarked) shafts were in each, and were asked to hit a series of shots. The shot patterns were very similar. The golfers thought they were trying stiff shafts from different manufacturers and were shocked to discover that they had been hitting ladies, senior, regular, stiff and extra-stiff from one manufacturer.

I guess it's all in the head, as it always has been ... if you like the club as it sits on the floor, you'll probably be able to hit it.

[Shallowface]

[quote name='Blade Junkie' timestamp='1325610217' post='4021899']
[quote name='rvgolfer' timestamp='1325261084' post='4005357']

My point is,,when we were young [b]we just didnt know any difference in clubs[/b], except the Brand name, and as we have aged, our knowledge has increased and our choices have been expanded to include lofts, length, lies, SGI, shafts, grips, and etc. So as we gain awareness, it also becomes more noticeable, and even slight differences can be felt. And when you feel a difference, it just takes longer to adjust to a different feel, plus being retired and playing far more frequently, those differences are more noticeable when you pick up another type of club. My guess if you actually put them in your bag and played 18 with them, you would make adjustments and begin to hit them better, so its not age that creates the problem, its your knowledge and being fine tuned in awareness due to playing frequently with your current set that creates a situation of uncomfortable strangeness that translates into looking like you never hit a golf ball in your life.
[/quote]

I forget where I read it, and it might even have been somewhere in the Golf Museum in St Andrews, which I visited recently and highly recommend, but there was a study done on a load of 5 handicap golfers on shaft differences. They were given 5 different clubs, but weren't told what the (unmarked) shafts were in each, and were asked to hit a series of shots. The shot patterns were very similar. The golfers thought they were trying stiff shafts from different manufacturers and were shocked to discover that they had been hitting ladies, senior, regular, stiff and extra-stiff from one manufacturer.

I guess it's all in the head, as it always has been ... if you like the club as it sits on the floor, you'll probably be able to hit it.
[/quote]

If the clubs in the test were steel shafted, I'd believe it, particularly if they were irons.

I always find it somewhat amusing when I venture into other sections of this forum and read about someone agonizing over changing his irons from one steel shaft to another.

Maybe it's just my experience, but I could play steel shafted irons in anything from L to X and they'd work just fine once I figured out how far they go.

Graphite is a different story. When you pick up a stiff or a regular in a steel shaft, you've got a pretty good idea of what you're getting. Not so in graphite. There are no standards, and ten shafts from ten different manufacturers all marked stiff could be ten different flexes.

It's just one more reason why I've grown to hate modern equipment.

[drewspin]

When it's going good, and you hit virtually every shot well, NEVER wonder why... just be thankful ... keep on keepin' on.


EDIT: But seriously, the phenomenon is exactly as follows: The guy who retires to a warmer climate will eventually feel very cold in the winter when the temps get down to 45* F, whereas the guy who stays in the north, he's thinking "golf day" if the winter temps peak at 45*...

[Guia]

I am 72 and in reasonably good condition, 6 ft 185 lbs and walk the course. I can still hit stiff irons (in my Apex) but recently changed to some Scratch AR-1 with an SL shaft that I can feel better. I have lost a little distance with the driver over the past few years, and have a consistent 98 SS, usually carry the ball 240 - 250.

You sound like you are doing fine. Obviously, as we age we lose flexibility and strength and can no longer rely on power to score. I have seen no reason to go too game improvement irons but have moved with the times regarding shafts (I also think that is the key for us Seniors) and now rely on hitting fairways, planning my shots, and trying to leave myself shots that I can consistently hit with my strongest irons on approach.

Keep on playing. I play with 2 guys who are 81 & 82 who still play the mid tees, walk, and although they can only drive the ball around 220 still shoot consistently in the mid 80s. We can all take a lesson from them and learn to play smarter as we age.

[rony]

[quote name='Nspiel58' timestamp='1325570366' post='4020845']
[quote name='rony' timestamp='1306167146' post='3255951']
Seems to me that back in the day, I could pick up any club and hit a decent shot with no problem. (Say you borrow someone's club for a shot at the range.) Now, being 69 years old, using my fitted Ping G10 Clubs with the Graphite Shafts and Soft Regular Flex, I hit virtually every shot very well. Really, I have a nice, smooth tempo swing and am extremely accurate, with decent yardage for my age. Here's the point; if I try to swing any other club, I look like I never hit a golf ball in my life! It MUST be because as we age, our swing speed goes way down, and we need the GI clubs to help us square the club face. Please tell me I'm right about that. ?????????
[/quote]


The first thing I thought of when I read your post was, were the shafts on these other clubs the same "soft regular flex" as on your own clubs? If they were any different, and I assume they were, then that's going to make quite a difference in how the ball comes off the club. Since your Pings were "fitted", the loft and lie have to be taken into account as well. It's like using a 33" baseball bat during most of the season, and then taking a 36" one day and expecting similar results. It's not going to happen. You may have tried too hard to swing properly and tightened up as another example. These are just a few examples which illustrate that the clubs you swung were not suited to your individual swing characterisitics.
[/quote]



Nspiel58: You are correct and this was pointed out to me just the other day by another Ranger that I work with on the golf course. He was a Golf Coach for St Johns University and he is 74 and a 3 handicap from the BLUES!!! Can you believe that? Anyhow he said exactly what you did. I had so many adjustments made to my fitted clubs: 1/2" Shorter Shafts, 3 Degrees flat Lie Angle, Graphite Soft Regular Flex, Driver from 45 3/4" to 45" with a "True" 9 Degree Loft (Which you have to pay extra for), Fitted Grips to my hand size, etc, etc. So, just picking up any iron shafted club alone is going to be a disaster! Your analogy of the Baseball Bat was excellent. I played baseball for 4 years in College. Good post. I just wasn't thinking! (Senior Moment) LOL Thanks

[rony]

[quote name='Guia' timestamp='1325648911' post='4025517']
I am 72 and in reasonably good condition, 6 ft 185 lbs and walk the course. I can still hit stiff irons (in my Apex) but recently changed to some Scratch AR-1 with an SL shaft that I can feel better. I have lost a little distance with the driver over the past few years, and have a consistent 98 SS, usually carry the ball 240 - 250.

You sound like you are doing fine. Obviously, as we age we lose flexibility and strength and can no longer rely on power to score. I have seen no reason to go too game improvement irons but have moved with the times regarding shafts (I also think that is the key for us Seniors) and now rely on hitting fairways, planning my shots, and trying to leave myself shots that I can consistently hit with my strongest irons on approach.

Keep on playing. I play with 2 guys who are 81 & 82 who still play the mid tees, walk, and although they can only drive the ball around 220 still shoot consistently in the mid 80s. We can all take a lesson from them and learn to play smarter as we age.
[/quote]



Guia: Thanks. To everyone who replied, I think I am going to come back and just post on the Classic Golf and Golfers Forum most of the time. The difference in the responses from other Seniors is extremely noticeable! Very polite with no hostile remarks. (Just like playing on the course with other Gentlemen.) Believe it or not, I actually had a little bit to do with this Forum. I asked about 2 years ago or so if we could have a forum for seniors. They said they would think about it and then they actually set it up as, I think it was Senior Golfers. The only problem is that not too many older fellows post on it, but the ones that do are very nice. Anyway, thanks again. Stay warm!! (LOL)

[DarkStewie]

Could it also be that maybe back in the day clubs didn't differ as much as they do now? Clubs look and feel drastically different from each other today, whereas back then most of the clubs had the same profile and feel?

[richard t]

I have been reading this with great interest. The post above me may have a point. I seem to remember a time when you had, say, S300 shafts in all your clubs. So did everyone else. Graphite was not big yet and woods were woods. Irons were not that different, mostly cosmetics. Now the OEMs have an array of shafts, both steel and graphite. None of them are the same. Like another person said you hit ten different shafts and may have ten different flexes. I am 65 play still to a 6 although I have moved up to the middle of three tees, I have a stiff flex driver that I can carry 220 yds. The other day I hit a driver of a friend on the range. Marked stiff. Geez, I thought I was swinging a fence post. I agree with most of you. If you adjust, know your limits, work to stay flexible and take care of yourself there is no reason not to play well for a long, long time. My son asked me the other day what was the longest drive I had last summer. I said about 335. He looked at me very hard. I said well, there's still #11 at the place I play a lot. Tee is way higher than the green. Hell, the ball goes 250 yds before it hits the ground. Then it rolls. God bless that hole. Hope they never change it. (lol)