Beginning my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[color="#000000"][i](Q:) The take 12 video looks good! What you're doing is very interesting. Keep at it. It would be good if you had a casio high resolution camera. You must have a natural nack at visual learning. That style wouldn't work for me. I have a hard enough time with an instructor standing right beside me. I'm wondering why do you swing so slowly? Is this some type of drill? Does this have some kind of intention, like Hogan's concentration drill? It's like your backswing is in slow motion or something. What's the secret to making your hips pivot and go nonstop? Mine turn just fine when I'm going from P1 to P6, but when I get right around impact, they stop, then start again. Your's are pivoting like Hogan's nonstop. Would love to play a round one day with a guy that swings like Hogan! I've been playing about 23 years now and I'm a 5. What's your handicap and where are you from? You said you aren't going out to the corse again till March. Must be cold there. YOu must be in the upper east coast area. Hit me up on my cell. Thanks.[/i][/color][i][color="#000000"][/color][/i]

[color="#000000"](A:) Thanks XXXXXXXXXXXX. I think all us humans have a natural nack at visual learning. I think the problem comes when we want to learn visually, but realize that we are learning from a pro, or a master at their craft, then we say "naaaaah, there's no way I can do that cause I'm just a plain guy." The pro has 2 arms and 2 legs just like you! When I started all this "nonsense" (that's what my wife calls it), I said that anybody could duplicate Hogans swing. I need to make a small change to that statement. ANYBODY THAT CAN HIT EVERY HOGAN STATIC POSITION CAN DUPLICATE THE SWING. The difficult part is putting all the static still shots together. When I show my buddies all the static moves, they say "damn, that's all Hogan's doing." But when they try to instantly put all the statics together, they look like they are bowling, or playing tennis, or doing some other swinging sport. Nothing against your instructor, but if they can't do the moves, or can't logically explain them, I'm not sure I would be trusting them with my learning. For me, visual is all I have to go by. I haven't met anyone that can do and teach the Hogan swing.
[/color][color="#000000"]
[color="#000000"][/color]Why does my takeaway and backswing look so slow? Cause at this point, I'm just a Hogan infant. I'm just learning how to crawl lol. Hopefully in about a few months, I'll graduate to toddler, then teenager, then get my real Hogan drivers liscense. Until then, all movements need to be slow and calculated so I can engrain them into muscle memory. All of it is one big swing drill.[/color][color="#000000"]
[color="#000000"][/color]My hips: It's funny that you bring that up! In the beginning, I was also focused/worried about the highly discussed Hogan pivot. Funny part is that I look at the Take 12 vid and notice that the hips are kinda pivoting like they should be, but I haven't thought anything about them.....AT ALL. Now I gotta look back at my notes and figure out when this started happening. I think it was around the time I was focusing on the right leg movement. Lol, I'm not gonna think about the hips; heck, that might change the transition or something lol.

I shoot in the mid to high 90's from the white tees. Low score is 92. I don't have an official handicap. I'm in the Atlanta, Ga area. I'm not avoiding the course because of the weather, just avoiding the competetive ego, and to get deeper into understanding the swing.[/color]

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[color="#000000"][i](Q:) Hey man this is starting to get good. You said that you are addressing the ball with the club wide open now and the left thumb straight down the shaft. Sounds just like what Hogan was doing when he found his secret. Can you do a video closep of yoou grip? What happens for yuo if the club is square? You need to reearch HOgan's equipment too. They were super heavy and the faces were bent open. IMO, I think you ahve already discovered Hogans secret.So waht the F is it!??!! I'm tired of chasing this crap! Driving me insane. Pay me no mind. Just my personal rant and venting session LOL! And who's your instructor. Nobody can just all of a sudden start teach themselves to swing like Hogan in their basement. Come on.
[/i][/color][color="#000000"]
[color="#000000"][/color](A:) If I use my new weak grip, and address the ball with the face square, ball will go very hard left. When I experimented with this, first few balls just went to left side of the canvas net, near the PVC frame. When I got the nerve to swing harder, ball missed the net and went into my wife's garage door on the left side. So I MUST keep it wide open. That's why I'm telling everyone I am somewhat fearful to make a full swing now. The club looks veeeeeweeey strange with the toe flipped to the back when it is adressing the ball. [/color][color="#000000"][/color][color="#000000"]
[color="#000000"][/color]
LOLOL! Cool quote! This should be on a t-shirt "Hogans secret. So what the F is it!??!! I'm tired of chasing this crap! Driving me insane."[/color][color="#000000"][/color]

[color="#000000"]Ok, since you took the time to email me, I'll fess up. My instructor is this dude that's in a bunch of youtube videos. He wears a white hat, and khakis. They call him "The Hawk" or something lol. Couldn't resist lol. But seriously, all I'm doing is what I see in the Hogan videos.[/color]

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[color="#000000"][i](Q:) You're scared of the ball???? LOLOLOLROFLMAO. You're just another fu**ing Charles Barkley. Get a life. What a crock and a waste. Just swing like the sh*ty swing you were born withand forget all this Hogan wannabe bull****. F**k you very much for wasting my time!

[/i][/color][color="#000000"][/color][color="#000000"](A:) Uhhhhh, not really scared of the ball when it is just sitting there, but a bit terrified if I shank one off the wall and it becomes my new eyeball.

[/color][color="#000000"][/color][color="#000000"]LOLOLOLOL (I don't know why I'm laughing, but I don't want you to have all the fun by yourself, but I wasn't talented enough to laugh myself onto the floor like you did lol. I'll keep trying though).

[/color][color="#000000"][/color][color="#000000"]Sorry, there are no crocodiles around here, just a few crickets and spiders.

[/color][color="#000000"][/color][color="#000000"]It's actually a semi-waste; this has helped me get brand new garage windows, that are now plexiglass and unbreakable. Yes!!

[/color][color="#000000"][/color][color="#000000"]But I AM swinging the sh*ty swing I was born with lol.

[/color][color="#000000"][/color][color="#000000"]Anytime sir!.....or ma'am.
[/color]

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[color="#000000"][i](Q:) I see the Hogan transition in your swing. Damn, I've been trying to do that for 10 years now lol! And you already got it figured out in a couple of months. You need to get this put on the Gold Channel so they can get rid of the Big Break. I need a closer view of the hands at P4 and P5. Best to do this with a high speed camera then I can really understand how the transition happens. Check out my youtube channel for my swings from front and down the line. Let me know what you think the problem is. Thanks for the laughs too! Great sense of humor.

[/i][/color][i][color="#000000"][/color][/i] [color="#000000"](A:) I admit that I am starting to understand what Hogan is doing, but I haven't figured everything out, or how to apply all of it..............YET. Golf Channel, nahhhh, not enough old schoolers out there to make enough of a case to get a Hogan viewership. Now if this was a Ricky Fowler project, very possible.....but wait a minute.......then, I would have to wear all orange pants, orange shoes, orange bent, orange unders, orange hat, orange socks to work lol! Your swing looks good. I have no idea what you are working on, but it's a bit herky jerky, but then again look at my sucky swing...what the heck do I know! You should ask an actual teaching pro about your inside takeaway.[/color]

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[i][color="#000000"](Q:) Where's the audio you promissed? This would be a lot easier for me if you just explained exactly what you are doing in your videos. Like Sevam1 did in his back yard. Check him out on youtube.Man, youre doin all this ffrom your basement! I never would have thought you could actualy work on the full swing inside like that. I'm looking forward to your next video WITH SOUND AND EXPLANATIONS.

[/color][/i][i][color="#000000"][/color][/i] [color="#000000"](A:) Hey, I never promised any audio, I just said I would look into it. So, I'm still looking lol. Yah, of course I've seen all the sevam1 vids. The difference between us is that he actually knows what he is talking about. I'm still trying to figure it out. When I get the next video out, I'LL THINK ABOUT DOING IT WITH SOUND AND EXPLANATIONS.[/color]

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[i][size="3"](Q : ) I really enjoy these videos, they're awesome!!!! any how i sent you a message on youtube stating the same thing.....im wondering what did you use in training aids to get to this point.....ive been playing for 5 months and i have the same desire for Hogan as you do....and want to accomplish this same swing.....but i dont know how to go about it....[/size][/i]

[i][size="3"]i have some dvds and they're's all kinds of clips on youtube.....what route did you go....[/size][/i]

[i][size="3"]by the way my name is XXXXXXX, i live in eastern KY........keep up the great work...[/size][/i]

[i][size="3"]also Jim Mclean has a new book about hogan coming out at the first of the year....supose to be a good one!!!![/size][/i]

[i][size="3"]I'm glad ive found someone like you that has the same desire for Hogan as I do....I've read 5 lessons twice and power golf briefly once. [/size][/i]

[i][size="3"]there's bunches and bunches of good references out there on hogans swing. such as a book called the fundamentals of hogan by David Ledbetter.....now i like that book, but the arrogant Ledbetter tries to emphasize what hogan was doing wrong....i hate that part about it.....i think hogan may have a better track record than Ledbetter...lol [/size][/i]

[i][size="3"]The thing I've found real confusing is the things that hogan states in the book such as the elbows tied together, and feet and so on i could go for days......anyhow i really think you are getting it down pat.....how long have you been trying to accompish this???? [/size][/i]

[i][size="3"]I hope you dont mind me asking questions cause ive studied hogan probably as muchas you have.........so ask away.... [/size][/i]

[i][size="3"]Keep up the good work, hope to hear from you soon...[/size][/i]

[size="3"][/size]

[size="3"](A: ) Let's communicate via the public forum threads. Talking via email is cool, but only 2 brains are active. In public forums, there are potentially hundreds of brains involved, and hundreds of backgrounds, and maybe even one or two people that actually understand this stinkin game. One of those hundreds of forum users may see something that we're discussing, and may have some insight that could help us both figure this crazy game.[/size]

[size="3"]The route I initially thought about taking was to read the 5 Fundamentals book, because Hogan's name was on it, but I was hesitant because I've heard of and spoken to many many people that want the Hogan swing, and are trying to find "the secret" by reading the book, but are nowhere nearer than when they started. So, my thinking was "why would I want to read the book if nobody has been able to swing like Hogan after reading it."[/size]

[size="3"]So my logic is to analyze his swing in 2-dimensional videos and compare mine to that.[/size]

[size="3"]And, there is no secret. Everything Hogan did on the course and range was witnessed by thousand of eyes, and hundreds of cameras. There was never a cape, or magic wand, or top hat involved lol. Now, David Copperfield is a different story.....how the heck did he make an airplane disappear lol????[/size]

[size="3"]I posted my usual routine a while back in the thread. It's basically record my swing, then compare it to Hogan's. Most times, I'm working on a particular area or bodypart.[/size]

[size="3"]As far as training aids, I did build a PVC plane device. It is just a pvc pipe that I set to the right of me at address. It's set at the angle of a 5 iron. Helps me to keep the club on the plane line during the takeaway and upswing. It is also handy during the downswing. Hogan's club always appears to be glued to the plane line.[/size]

[svsvincenzo]

 

I see too much rotation too early in dsw and hands coming out by that. You need to push them more behind you and no to pull them down toward the ball

 

 

I will PM you one thing also to give some idea to try

 

Yep, I understand exactly what you mean TeeAce. Trust me, I do understand what Hogan is doing, and also how to do it. I just haven't trained myself on it yet. I discovered the move in a couple of Hogan's DTL videos. It is clear to see even with the grainy resolution of the 60's. I'll put up an example of what I'm talking about as soon as I can.

 

Excellent project here. Will make us learn differently. May be better. So, keep it going.

 

What is your discovery? (Sorry if you mentioned it already)

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

I am intruiged by Hogan's transition. I want this area in red.

[attachment=927273:hogans clubhead path FO the drop.jpg]

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Transitional magic! But absolutely not any secrets hiding anywhere. It's all in the video! Very clear to see, even at this grainy resolution.

Pay close attention to the clubhead......

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM72lVlhdrs[/media]

[groveler]

Sure its no mystery the devil is in the execution.
With your attitude though anything is possible.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322277032' post='3852321']
Transitional magic! But absolutely not any secrets hiding anywhere. It's all in the video! Very clear to see, even at this grainy resolution.

Pay close attention to the clubhead......

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM72lVlhdrs[/media]
[/quote]

Yes there is... hiding behind of his head from this angle Put your attention to the club head and my last PM. You will find the connection.

[Staffer]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322277032' post='3852321']
Transitional magic! But absolutely not any secrets hiding anywhere. It's all in the video! Very clear to see, even at this grainy resolution.

Pay close attention to the clubhead......

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM72lVlhdrs[/media]
[/quote]

Yes, the effect is easy to spot. But dont start consciously dropping the clubhead behind you just yet.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liqyn5dzg01qfyqwd.jpg

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

(Q: ) [i]Why on earth would you want to duplicate the Ben Hogan Swing at all?

Unless of course you want to develop an out of control hook, and then spend half a lifetime pasting compensations on top of it to straighten it out.

It's a bit like having plastic surgery to make yourself look like Brad Pitt. And even if you do it perfectly, you won't be able to act worth ****.

THe Hogan swing is not as horrible as Tiger's current version - granted. And not nearly as horrible as Norman's. But they are all horrible. These guys got their success despite there swing mechanics, not because of them.
[/i]

(A: ) Hmmmm, this is a very good question. I've never really thought about why I would want to duplicate Hogan's swing. But after thinking about it for a while, the answer is quite simple.....it's because I want to develop an out of control hook, and then spend half a lifetime pasting compensations on top of it to straighten it out.

I had another thought about what you said regarding plastic surgey and Brad Pitt.

You said [i]"It's a bit like having plastic surgery to make yourself look like Brad Pitt. And even if you do it perfectly, you won't be able to act worth spit."[/i]

I don't know if you realize it, but your statement is absolutely brilliant! Here's my analogy: Let's say that for years you look like the elephant man, then you sign up for plastic surgery to look like Brad Pitt. The surgery is a complete success. Who chares about acting.........you look like Brad Pitt now.....lololl!

Note to self: Make a t-shirt that says "Your success is defined by you[s]r social community[/s]."

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1322300523' post='3853239']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322277032' post='3852321']
Transitional magic! But absolutely not any secrets hiding anywhere. It's all in the video! Very clear to see, even at this grainy resolution.

Pay close attention to the clubhead......

[/quote]

Yes, the effect is easy to spot. But dont start consciously dropping the clubhead behind you just yet.

[url="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liqyn5dzg01qfyqwd.jpg"]http://media.tumblr....dzg01qfyqwd.jpg[/url]
[/quote]

Yep. gotcha Staffer. For me, clubhead drop is just an effect of what my wrists are doing.

[SnapFade2]

haha anyone notice the truck that goes by from left to right looks the same as the one that goes right to left from 9-11 seconds in the beginning. watch in the background.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Compilation of vids that helped me get an understanding of the transition.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb-zE_Ayudg[/media]

[Woodridge]

So, he's pushing his hands horizontally east, which makes the club go horizontally west as his first move down....very interesting. Not sure I even want to try that move at this point!

[Slugsy]

This is fascinating, I'm not sure I get it, I feel like I'm on the cusp, I see the movement in the club head at top but not sure what triggers that?

[tembolo1284]

Send us some footage of your transition sir. You've been on it for awhile.

and I have to ask.....how's the ball flight?

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1322750671' post='3875565']
Send us some footage of your transition sir. You've been on it for awhile.

and I have to ask.....how's the ball flight?

[/quote]

I posted my 'Take 12' vid earlier in the thread. That's as far as I've gotten on the transition.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f544Kurup7E[/media]

As far as the ball flight, it's going dead straight for about 20 feet, then its crashing into my canvas wall.

I'll try to get a 'Take 13' up in a few days.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322770636' post='3877091']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1322750671' post='3875565']
Send us some footage of your transition sir. You've been on it for awhile.

and I have to ask.....how's the ball flight?

[/quote]

I posted my 'Take 12' vid earlier in the thread. That's as far as I've gotten on the transition.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f544Kurup7E[/media]

As far as the ball flight, it's going dead straight for about 20 feet, then its crashing into my canvas wall.

I'll try to get a 'Take 13' up in a few days.
[/quote]


Hey. 20 feet! It's a start sir! Keep it going!

[Staffer]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322770636' post='3877091']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1322750671' post='3875565']
Send us some footage of your transition sir. You've been on it for awhile.

and I have to ask.....how's the ball flight?

[/quote]

I posted my 'Take 12' vid earlier in the thread. That's as far as I've gotten on the transition.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f544Kurup7E[/media]

As far as the ball flight, it's going dead straight for about 20 feet, then its crashing into my canvas wall.

I'll try to get a 'Take 13' up in a few days.
[/quote]

Looks like it would turn quite rapidly right within 100 yards. Hitting any sockets yet?

=)

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1322772652' post='3877279']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322770636' post='3877091']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1322750671' post='3875565']
Send us some footage of your transition sir. You've been on it for awhile.

and I have to ask.....how's the ball flight?

[/quote]

I posted my 'Take 12' vid earlier in the thread. That's as far as I've gotten on the transition.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f544Kurup7E[/media]

As far as the ball flight, it's going dead straight for about 20 feet, then its crashing into my canvas wall.

I'll try to get a 'Take 13' up in a few days.
[/quote]

Looks like it would turn quite rapidly right within 100 yards. Hitting any sockets yet?

=)


[/quote]

Staffer be nice!

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1322772652' post='3877279']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322770636' post='3877091']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1322750671' post='3875565']
Send us some footage of your transition sir. You've been on it for awhile.

and I have to ask.....how's the ball flight?

[/quote]

I posted my 'Take 12' vid earlier in the thread. That's as far as I've gotten on the transition.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f544Kurup7E[/media]

As far as the ball flight, it's going dead straight for about 20 feet, then its crashing into my canvas wall.

I'll try to get a 'Take 13' up in a few days.
[/quote]

Looks like it would turn quite rapidly right within 100 yards. Hitting any sockets yet?

=)


[/quote]

Turn right will be good if it does it every single time, but it must be consistent. And if it does turn rapidly right, I'll just close the clubface a bit. No sockets, but if I make a complete full swing in the basement, I will tear another hole in my ductwork.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

In this video, I was just playing around with a few things that felt nothing like a golf swing. During my analysis, I ran the slow-mo a few times just to see how ridiculous the swing looked, and was shocked to see that I was SOMEHOW getting close to the angle-hinged position. I WISH I KNEW HOW I WAS GETTING THERE!!!!!!!! It would be so helpful if I could just type exactly what I am doing, but I have no idea right now.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sf5bRMk25k[/media]

[Staffer]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322800185' post='3879155']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1322772652' post='3877279']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322770636' post='3877091']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1322750671' post='3875565']
Send us some footage of your transition sir. You've been on it for awhile.

and I have to ask.....how's the ball flight?

[/quote]

I posted my 'Take 12' vid earlier in the thread. That's as far as I've gotten on the transition.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f544Kurup7E[/media]

As far as the ball flight, it's going dead straight for about 20 feet, then its crashing into my canvas wall.

I'll try to get a 'Take 13' up in a few days.
[/quote]

Looks like it would turn quite rapidly right within 100 yards. Hitting any sockets yet?

=)


[/quote]

Turn right will be good if it does it every single time, but it must be consistent. And if it does turn rapidly right, I'll just close the clubface a bit. No sockets, but if I make a complete full swing in the basement, I will tear another hole in my ductwork.
[/quote]


Just kiddin =).

I just hope you will not be disappointed once you get to the range...

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1322826255' post='3879841']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322800185' post='3879155']
[quote name='Staffer' timestamp='1322772652' post='3877279']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322770636' post='3877091']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1322750671' post='3875565']
Send us some footage of your transition sir. You've been on it for awhile.

and I have to ask.....how's the ball flight?

[/quote]

I posted my 'Take 12' vid earlier in the thread. That's as far as I've gotten on the transition.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f544Kurup7E[/media]

As far as the ball flight, it's going dead straight for about 20 feet, then its crashing into my canvas wall.

I'll try to get a 'Take 13' up in a few days.
[/quote]

Looks like it would turn quite rapidly right within 100 yards. Hitting any sockets yet?

=)


[/quote]

Turn right will be good if it does it every single time, but it must be consistent. And if it does turn rapidly right, I'll just close the clubface a bit. No sockets, but if I make a complete full swing in the basement, I will tear another hole in my ductwork.
[/quote]


Just kiddin =).

I just hope you will not be disappointed once you get to the range...
[/quote]

Yah, I know what you mean, but my only disappointment will be if I am not able to consistently hit all the Hogan-type positions I am practicing. The trajectory, spin rate, launch angle, flight pattern, and distance are not a concern, but where the ball finishes is. As long as I can tee the ball up, make a Hogan-style swing, and the ball end up in the fairway, I am happy.

[tembolo1284]

*gasp*...after all our talks...you don't have a particular ball flight in mind then?

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1322839458' post='3880515']
*gasp*...after all our talks...you don't have a particular ball flight in mind then?
[/quote]

If I had to put ball flight on my Christmas list, it would be the Hogan cut-fade. I've never seen his complete ball flight, so I can only go by what I hear people say they witnessed.

But, after all this project stuff, if I end up with a cut-straight, or a cut-draw, or cut-whatever, or no-cut.............................I'm good.

Looking back at my golf career, I have always been able to hit a cut-fade with the shiiity swing I was born with. I started with a major slice, and played around with my face angle at address and ball position until I got rid of the slice and got the fade.

[Staffer]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1322841818' post='3880727']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1322839458' post='3880515']
*gasp*...after all our talks...you don't have a particular ball flight in mind then?
[/quote]

If I had to put ball flight on my Christmas list, it would be the Hogan cut-fade. I've never seen his complete ball flight, so I can only go by what I hear people say they witnessed.

But, after all this project stuff, if I end up with a cut-straight, or a cut-draw, or cut-whatever, or no-cut.............................I'm good.

Looking back at my golf career, I have always been able to hit a cut-fade with the shiiity swing I was born with. I started with a major slice, and played around with my face angle at address and ball position until I got rid of the slice and got the fade.
[/quote]

Hogan didnt cut the ball.

=)