Callaway Scoring System Excel Sheet

granitebaygolfer · July 14, 2014

Thanks for the reply and the offer to see if you can use only Excel formulas!

Regarding the omission of the golfer's 17th and 18th holes played: I certainly agree with your conclusion about the handicap differences. However, my understanding is the reason that these holes were omitted when golfers start on hole 1 was to prevent "end of round tanking/sandbagging". Here is a quote from [url="http://www.leaderboard.com/callaway.htm"]one explanation of the Callaway system[/url], which also omits the 16th hole scores:
[indent=1][i]Now the 16th, 17th and 18th holes are eliminated from further consideration. In Jeff's case, we can see why this rule is used. It is quite common for players to "tank" towards the very end of the round, either due to tiring... Or simply due to "sandbagging" which is an overt attempt to try to drive up their handicap[/i].[/indent]
Now I'm not smart enough to know how this end-of-round stuff affects the eventual outcome, just that historically this has been done. Since you are trying to eliminate these end of round shenanigans it makes sense to eliminate the last two holes a group plays.

I'll note that Knuth's site doesn't mention omitting the 17th and 18th holes, but his site, IMHO, doesn't exactly reflect his thoughts on how the system works. He was quite gracious in answering many of my questions but after several exchanges he indicated that the had given me all the time he could on the matter. The questions he did answer are reflected in the spreadsheet I produced. At least I think they are!

Knuth was consistent in stating that worst holes were relative to par.

What I would love to find is Schied's original paper on this. I tried without success to locate it. When I asked Knuth where I could find it I got the answer that he had no more time for me. [url="http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=25501"]This was the closest I could come to Schied's paper[/url], but it does not mention the four rules that are on Knuth's site.

It would be interesting to look at the spreadsheet and see if end of round shenanigans actually can make much of a difference in the outcomes. Regrettably it would be several weeks before I could run some tests.

[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1405305883' post='9694849']
[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1401131987' post='9369497']
This is my first cut at a Scramble Tournament Spreadsheet, based upon [url="http://www.popeofslope.com/scramble/handicapping.html"]Knuth's modified Shied system[/url]. I exchanged emails with Knuth and his website isn't totally correct. I think the spreadsheet implements what he intended.

Some notes, the spreadsheet's "Adj" sheet has more details:[list]
[*]It is for a one-day event
[*]It allows for a shotgun start, where a group's starting hole determines its 17th and 18th holes (which usually aren't the course's 17th and 18th holes).
[*]Max score is a double bogey
[*]"Worst Holes" are computed relative to par
[*]The system does not care what a course's par is.
[/list]
I left the original sheet's worst hole computations, which were irrespective of par, in so you can see what difference there is in the two computations. [u]In order to compute the worst holes relative to par I used a User-Defined Function (i.e,, a macro)[/u]. I'm not an Excel expert, so I gave up trying to do the computations with standard Excel functions. (FWIW - this was the first user-defined function I've written).

The "Leader Board" sheet does not work. There are a bunch of computations relative to the hidden "Tourney Stats" sheet and player ranking on the "Round 1" sheet that I don't understand.

I am certainly not an Excel expert, so comments/suggestions are readily welcomed. Especially if you know how to replace the macro with standard Excel functions.

[url="https://www.dropbox.com/s/6n1k45bq9s2xczf/Scramble-Tournament-Scorecard-v1.xlsm"]You can find the spreadsheet here[/url].

P.S. A Big Thank You! to the original authors!
[/quote]

I'm not sure that I agree with the shotgun start rule that says you should omit the 17th and 18th holes that are played, not the 17th and 18th holes of the course. Seems to me that this will result in a handicap calculation that is not equitable to all groups. Some teams will have the number 1 handicap hole (the most difficult hole on the course) omitted, while other teams will have the number 18 handicap hole (the easiest) omitted. Seems to me that this would result in an unfair advantage to some groups, and a disadvantage to others. Does anybody agree?

There also seems to be some confusion regarding the determination of the worst holes ... I've seen some descriptions that clearly state that the worst hole is the hole with the highest gross score regardless of par rating, and I've also seen descriptions that suggest as you've described that the worst score should be determined relative to par. I'm not sure which is correct ... the spreadsheet that I posted previously did not use par rating in the worst hole determination.

I'll have a look and try to modify the spreadsheet to calculate worst holes relative to par using only Excel formulas. If I can figure it out, I'll post here.
[/quote]

ehbee · July 17, 2014

[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1405369484' post='9699533']
Thanks for the reply and the offer to see if you can use only Excel formulas!

Regarding the omission of the golfer's 17th and 18th holes played: I certainly agree with your conclusion about the handicap differences. However, my understanding is the reason that these holes were omitted when golfers start on hole 1 was to prevent "end of round tanking/sandbagging". Here is a quote from [url="http://www.leaderboard.com/callaway.htm"]one explanation of the Callaway system[/url], which also omits the 16th hole scores:

[indent=1][i]Now the 16th, 17th and 18th holes are eliminated from further consideration. In Jeff's case, we can see why this rule is used. It is quite common for players to "tank" towards the very end of the round, either due to tiring... Or simply due to "sandbagging" which is an overt attempt to try to drive up their handicap[/i].[/indent]
Now I'm not smart enough to know how this end-of-round stuff affects the eventual outcome, just that historically this has been done. Since you are trying to eliminate these end of round shenanigans it makes sense to eliminate the last two holes a group plays.

I'll note that Knuth's site doesn't mention omitting the 17th and 18th holes, but his site, IMHO, doesn't exactly reflect his thoughts on how the system works. He was quite gracious in answering many of my questions but after several exchanges he indicated that the had given me all the time he could on the matter. The questions he did answer are reflected in the spreadsheet I produced. At least I think they are!

Knuth was consistent in stating that worst holes were relative to par.

What I would love to find is Schied's original paper on this. I tried without success to locate it. When I asked Knuth where I could find it I got the answer that he had no more time for me. [url="http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=25501"]This was the closest I could come to Schied's paper[/url], but it does not mention the four rules that are on Knuth's site.

It would be interesting to look at the spreadsheet and see if end of round shenanigans actually can make much of a difference in the outcomes. Regrettably it would be several weeks before I could run some tests.

[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1405305883' post='9694849']
[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1401131987' post='9369497']
This is my first cut at a Scramble Tournament Spreadsheet, based upon [url="http://www.popeofslope.com/scramble/handicapping.html"]Knuth's modified Shied system[/url]. I exchanged emails with Knuth and his website isn't totally correct. I think the spreadsheet implements what he intended.

Some notes, the spreadsheet's "Adj" sheet has more details:[list]
[*]It is for a one-day event
[*]It allows for a shotgun start, where a group's starting hole determines its 17th and 18th holes (which usually aren't the course's 17th and 18th holes).
[*]Max score is a double bogey
[*]"Worst Holes" are computed relative to par
[*]The system does not care what a course's par is.
[/list]
I left the original sheet's worst hole computations, which were irrespective of par, in so you can see what difference there is in the two computations. [u]In order to compute the worst holes relative to par I used a User-Defined Function (i.e,, a macro)[/u]. I'm not an Excel expert, so I gave up trying to do the computations with standard Excel functions. (FWIW - this was the first user-defined function I've written).

The "Leader Board" sheet does not work. There are a bunch of computations relative to the hidden "Tourney Stats" sheet and player ranking on the "Round 1" sheet that I don't understand.

I am certainly not an Excel expert, so comments/suggestions are readily welcomed. Especially if you know how to replace the macro with standard Excel functions.

[url="https://www.dropbox.com/s/6n1k45bq9s2xczf/Scramble-Tournament-Scorecard-v1.xlsm"]You can find the spreadsheet here[/url].

P.S. A Big Thank You! to the original authors!
[/quote]

I'm not sure that I agree with the shotgun start rule that says you should omit the 17th and 18th holes that are played, not the 17th and 18th holes of the course. Seems to me that this will result in a handicap calculation that is not equitable to all groups. Some teams will have the number 1 handicap hole (the most difficult hole on the course) omitted, while other teams will have the number 18 handicap hole (the easiest) omitted. Seems to me that this would result in an unfair advantage to some groups, and a disadvantage to others. Does anybody agree?

There also seems to be some confusion regarding the determination of the worst holes ... I've seen some descriptions that clearly state that the worst hole is the hole with the highest gross score regardless of par rating, and I've also seen descriptions that suggest as you've described that the worst score should be determined relative to par. I'm not sure which is correct ... the spreadsheet that I posted previously did not use par rating in the worst hole determination.

I'll have a look and try to modify the spreadsheet to calculate worst holes relative to par using only Excel formulas. If I can figure it out, I'll post here.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I think I have a working spreadsheet that uses only Excel formulas, and it is posted to the MS OneDrive at the link below:

[url="https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=75ECAA139212F71D!187&authkey=!ACocIuggf-J7mx0&ithint=folder%2c.xlsx"]https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=75ECAA139212F71D!187&authkey=!ACocIuggf-J7mx0&ithint=folder%2c.xlsx[/url]

The spreadsheet breaks the calculation of the worst holes into several steps as can be seen if you unhide the helper columns that I've used. The process is not nearly as elegant as your macro enabled sheet, but I think it works just fine. First step is to apply the max double bogey rule ... next step is to calculate score relative to par on the hole. If you look at the columns in this step, you may find it somewhat confusing, but I've added a comment to attempt to explain what I'm doing ... manipulating the scores to ensure that I have no ties so that when I'm finished ranking the scores from worst to best, that I have no duplicates ... in other words, I can distinguish a bogey on the par 4 1st hole from a bogey on the par 4 5th hole. The process works by adding a fractional component to the score to ensure that all scores are unique. I've also used this technique in the hidden TourneyStats worksheet to ensure that I have a unique ranking for every team (which is used as an index for the VLOOKUP function) and also a display ranking. The unique team ranking and the display ranking may be different if teams are tied with the same net score. Hopefully this explanation will help explain the mysterious logic that I've use on this sheet.

With respect to the omission of the 17th and 18th hole ... I understand the rationale to mitigate end-of-round shenanigans, but I think this may be less of a problem in a scramble event than it is with individual stroke play. As I mentioned earlier, I would prefer to see all teams treated equitably with respect to the holes omitted for HC calculation purposes, and have therefore left in the option to choose which holes should be eliminated regardless of the order in which they are played. What I might suggest, is that the specific holes to be omitted from the calculation be randomly chosen AFTER the round is completed ... that would eliminate any chance of sandbagging. The score card worksheet provides the option to specify up to three holes to be omitted, and any hole can be chosen.

granitebaygolfer · July 18, 2014

[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1405655665' post='9725691']
[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1405369484' post='9699533']
Thanks for the reply and the offer to see if you can use only Excel formulas!

Regarding the omission of the golfer's 17th and 18th holes played: I certainly agree with your conclusion about the handicap differences. However, my understanding is the reason that these holes were omitted when golfers start on hole 1 was to prevent "end of round tanking/sandbagging". Here is a quote from [url="http://www.leaderboard.com/callaway.htm"]one explanation of the Callaway system[/url], which also omits the 16th hole scores:

[indent=1][i]Now the 16th, 17th and 18th holes are eliminated from further consideration. In Jeff's case, we can see why this rule is used. It is quite common for players to "tank" towards the very end of the round, either due to tiring... Or simply due to "sandbagging" which is an overt attempt to try to drive up their handicap[/i].[/indent]
Now I'm not smart enough to know how this end-of-round stuff affects the eventual outcome, just that historically this has been done. Since you are trying to eliminate these end of round shenanigans it makes sense to eliminate the last two holes a group plays.

I'll note that Knuth's site doesn't mention omitting the 17th and 18th holes, but his site, IMHO, doesn't exactly reflect his thoughts on how the system works. He was quite gracious in answering many of my questions but after several exchanges he indicated that the had given me all the time he could on the matter. The questions he did answer are reflected in the spreadsheet I produced. At least I think they are!

Knuth was consistent in stating that worst holes were relative to par.

What I would love to find is Schied's original paper on this. I tried without success to locate it. When I asked Knuth where I could find it I got the answer that he had no more time for me. [url="http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=25501"]This was the closest I could come to Schied's paper[/url], but it does not mention the four rules that are on Knuth's site.

It would be interesting to look at the spreadsheet and see if end of round shenanigans actually can make much of a difference in the outcomes. Regrettably it would be several weeks before I could run some tests.

[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1405305883' post='9694849']
[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1401131987' post='9369497']
This is my first cut at a Scramble Tournament Spreadsheet, based upon [url="http://www.popeofslope.com/scramble/handicapping.html"]Knuth's modified Shied system[/url]. I exchanged emails with Knuth and his website isn't totally correct. I think the spreadsheet implements what he intended.

Some notes, the spreadsheet's "Adj" sheet has more details:[list]
[*]It is for a one-day event
[*]It allows for a shotgun start, where a group's starting hole determines its 17th and 18th holes (which usually aren't the course's 17th and 18th holes).
[*]Max score is a double bogey
[*]"Worst Holes" are computed relative to par
[*]The system does not care what a course's par is.
[/list]
I left the original sheet's worst hole computations, which were irrespective of par, in so you can see what difference there is in the two computations. [u]In order to compute the worst holes relative to par I used a User-Defined Function (i.e,, a macro)[/u]. I'm not an Excel expert, so I gave up trying to do the computations with standard Excel functions. (FWIW - this was the first user-defined function I've written).

The "Leader Board" sheet does not work. There are a bunch of computations relative to the hidden "Tourney Stats" sheet and player ranking on the "Round 1" sheet that I don't understand.

I am certainly not an Excel expert, so comments/suggestions are readily welcomed. Especially if you know how to replace the macro with standard Excel functions.

[url="https://www.dropbox.com/s/6n1k45bq9s2xczf/Scramble-Tournament-Scorecard-v1.xlsm"]You can find the spreadsheet here[/url].

P.S. A Big Thank You! to the original authors!
[/quote]

I'm not sure that I agree with the shotgun start rule that says you should omit the 17th and 18th holes that are played, not the 17th and 18th holes of the course. Seems to me that this will result in a handicap calculation that is not equitable to all groups. Some teams will have the number 1 handicap hole (the most difficult hole on the course) omitted, while other teams will have the number 18 handicap hole (the easiest) omitted. Seems to me that this would result in an unfair advantage to some groups, and a disadvantage to others. Does anybody agree?

There also seems to be some confusion regarding the determination of the worst holes ... I've seen some descriptions that clearly state that the worst hole is the hole with the highest gross score regardless of par rating, and I've also seen descriptions that suggest as you've described that the worst score should be determined relative to par. I'm not sure which is correct ... the spreadsheet that I posted previously did not use par rating in the worst hole determination.

I'll have a look and try to modify the spreadsheet to calculate worst holes relative to par using only Excel formulas. If I can figure it out, I'll post here.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I think I have a working spreadsheet that uses only Excel formulas, and it is posted to the MS OneDrive at the link below:

[url="https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=75ECAA139212F71D!187&authkey=!ACocIuggf-J7mx0&ithint=folder%2c.xlsx"]https://onedrive.liv...nt=folder,.xlsx[/url]

The spreadsheet breaks the calculation of the worst holes into several steps as can be seen if you unhide the helper columns that I've used. The process is not nearly as elegant as your macro enabled sheet, but I think it works just fine. First step is to apply the max double bogey rule ... next step is to calculate score relative to par on the hole. If you look at the columns in this step, you may find it somewhat confusing, but I've added a comment to attempt to explain what I'm doing ... manipulating the scores to ensure that I have no ties so that when I'm finished ranking the scores from worst to best, that I have no duplicates ... in other words, I can distinguish a bogey on the par 4 1st hole from a bogey on the par 4 5th hole. The process works by adding a fractional component to the score to ensure that all scores are unique. I've also used this technique in the hidden TourneyStats worksheet to ensure that I have a unique ranking for every team (which is used as an index for the VLOOKUP function) and also a display ranking. The unique team ranking and the display ranking may be different if teams are tied with the same net score. Hopefully this explanation will help explain the mysterious logic that I've use on this sheet.

With respect to the omission of the 17th and 18th hole ... I understand the rationale to mitigate end-of-round shenanigans, but I think this may be less of a problem in a scramble event than it is with individual stroke play. As I mentioned earlier, I would prefer to see all teams treated equitably with respect to the holes omitted for HC calculation purposes, and have therefore left in the option to choose which holes should be eliminated regardless of the order in which they are played. What I might suggest, is that the specific holes to be omitted from the calculation be randomly chosen AFTER the round is completed ... that would eliminate any chance of sandbagging. The score card worksheet provides the option to specify up to three holes to be omitted, and any hole can be chosen.
[/quote]

VERY COOL!!! I'm thrilled that you were able to get rid of the macro. Macro-enabled spreadsheets put fear into the hearts of many users (and with justification).

I like that the Leader Board now works. Something that I couldn't figure out.

I really can't quibble with the way you handled the omitted holes. In fact, I'm not sure if omitting any holes is really even needed, but as I said I wont be able to test various scenarios for some time.

I also can't examine your sheet in detail right now. I am curious if you even use the "Starting Hole" information as you show Team 1B and Team 2B starting on holes 19 and 20 instead of holes 1 and 2.

Great job!

ehbee · July 19, 2014

[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1405713291' post='9730349']
[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1405655665' post='9725691']
[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1405369484' post='9699533']
Thanks for the reply and the offer to see if you can use only Excel formulas!

Regarding the omission of the golfer's 17th and 18th holes played: I certainly agree with your conclusion about the handicap differences. However, my understanding is the reason that these holes were omitted when golfers start on hole 1 was to prevent "end of round tanking/sandbagging". Here is a quote from [url="http://www.leaderboard.com/callaway.htm"]one explanation of the Callaway system[/url], which also omits the 16th hole scores:

[indent=1][i]Now the 16th, 17th and 18th holes are eliminated from further consideration. In Jeff's case, we can see why this rule is used. It is quite common for players to "tank" towards the very end of the round, either due to tiring... Or simply due to "sandbagging" which is an overt attempt to try to drive up their handicap[/i].[/indent]
Now I'm not smart enough to know how this end-of-round stuff affects the eventual outcome, just that historically this has been done. Since you are trying to eliminate these end of round shenanigans it makes sense to eliminate the last two holes a group plays.

I'll note that Knuth's site doesn't mention omitting the 17th and 18th holes, but his site, IMHO, doesn't exactly reflect his thoughts on how the system works. He was quite gracious in answering many of my questions but after several exchanges he indicated that the had given me all the time he could on the matter. The questions he did answer are reflected in the spreadsheet I produced. At least I think they are!

Knuth was consistent in stating that worst holes were relative to par.

What I would love to find is Schied's original paper on this. I tried without success to locate it. When I asked Knuth where I could find it I got the answer that he had no more time for me. [url="http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=25501"]This was the closest I could come to Schied's paper[/url], but it does not mention the four rules that are on Knuth's site.

It would be interesting to look at the spreadsheet and see if end of round shenanigans actually can make much of a difference in the outcomes. Regrettably it would be several weeks before I could run some tests.

[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1405305883' post='9694849']
[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1401131987' post='9369497']
This is my first cut at a Scramble Tournament Spreadsheet, based upon [url="http://www.popeofslope.com/scramble/handicapping.html"]Knuth's modified Shied system[/url]. I exchanged emails with Knuth and his website isn't totally correct. I think the spreadsheet implements what he intended.

Some notes, the spreadsheet's "Adj" sheet has more details:[list]
[*]It is for a one-day event
[*]It allows for a shotgun start, where a group's starting hole determines its 17th and 18th holes (which usually aren't the course's 17th and 18th holes).
[*]Max score is a double bogey
[*]"Worst Holes" are computed relative to par
[*]The system does not care what a course's par is.
[/list]
I left the original sheet's worst hole computations, which were irrespective of par, in so you can see what difference there is in the two computations. [u]In order to compute the worst holes relative to par I used a User-Defined Function (i.e,, a macro)[/u]. I'm not an Excel expert, so I gave up trying to do the computations with standard Excel functions. (FWIW - this was the first user-defined function I've written).

The "Leader Board" sheet does not work. There are a bunch of computations relative to the hidden "Tourney Stats" sheet and player ranking on the "Round 1" sheet that I don't understand.

I am certainly not an Excel expert, so comments/suggestions are readily welcomed. Especially if you know how to replace the macro with standard Excel functions.

[url="https://www.dropbox.com/s/6n1k45bq9s2xczf/Scramble-Tournament-Scorecard-v1.xlsm"]You can find the spreadsheet here[/url].

P.S. A Big Thank You! to the original authors!
[/quote]

I'm not sure that I agree with the shotgun start rule that says you should omit the 17th and 18th holes that are played, not the 17th and 18th holes of the course. Seems to me that this will result in a handicap calculation that is not equitable to all groups. Some teams will have the number 1 handicap hole (the most difficult hole on the course) omitted, while other teams will have the number 18 handicap hole (the easiest) omitted. Seems to me that this would result in an unfair advantage to some groups, and a disadvantage to others. Does anybody agree?

There also seems to be some confusion regarding the determination of the worst holes ... I've seen some descriptions that clearly state that the worst hole is the hole with the highest gross score regardless of par rating, and I've also seen descriptions that suggest as you've described that the worst score should be determined relative to par. I'm not sure which is correct ... the spreadsheet that I posted previously did not use par rating in the worst hole determination.

I'll have a look and try to modify the spreadsheet to calculate worst holes relative to par using only Excel formulas. If I can figure it out, I'll post here.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I think I have a working spreadsheet that uses only Excel formulas, and it is posted to the MS OneDrive at the link below:

[url="https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=75ECAA139212F71D!187&authkey=!ACocIuggf-J7mx0&ithint=folder%2c.xlsx"]https://onedrive.liv...nt=folder,.xlsx[/url]

The spreadsheet breaks the calculation of the worst holes into several steps as can be seen if you unhide the helper columns that I've used. The process is not nearly as elegant as your macro enabled sheet, but I think it works just fine. First step is to apply the max double bogey rule ... next step is to calculate score relative to par on the hole. If you look at the columns in this step, you may find it somewhat confusing, but I've added a comment to attempt to explain what I'm doing ... manipulating the scores to ensure that I have no ties so that when I'm finished ranking the scores from worst to best, that I have no duplicates ... in other words, I can distinguish a bogey on the par 4 1st hole from a bogey on the par 4 5th hole. The process works by adding a fractional component to the score to ensure that all scores are unique. I've also used this technique in the hidden TourneyStats worksheet to ensure that I have a unique ranking for every team (which is used as an index for the VLOOKUP function) and also a display ranking. The unique team ranking and the display ranking may be different if teams are tied with the same net score. Hopefully this explanation will help explain the mysterious logic that I've use on this sheet.

With respect to the omission of the 17th and 18th hole ... I understand the rationale to mitigate end-of-round shenanigans, but I think this may be less of a problem in a scramble event than it is with individual stroke play. As I mentioned earlier, I would prefer to see all teams treated equitably with respect to the holes omitted for HC calculation purposes, and have therefore left in the option to choose which holes should be eliminated regardless of the order in which they are played. What I might suggest, is that the specific holes to be omitted from the calculation be randomly chosen AFTER the round is completed ... that would eliminate any chance of sandbagging. The score card worksheet provides the option to specify up to three holes to be omitted, and any hole can be chosen.
[/quote]

VERY COOL!!! I'm thrilled that you were able to get rid of the macro. Macro-enabled spreadsheets put fear into the hearts of many users (and with justification).

I like that the Leader Board now works. Something that I couldn't figure out.

I really can't quibble with the way you handled the omitted holes. In fact, I'm not sure if omitting any holes is really even needed, but as I said I wont be able to test various scenarios for some time.

I also can't examine your sheet in detail right now. I am curious if you even use the "Starting Hole" information as you show Team 1B and Team 2B starting on holes 19 and 20 instead of holes 1 and 2.

Great job!
[/quote]

Thanks ... I share the concern with Macro enable spreadsheets, so my preference is to use just standard Excel formulas, particularly when I'm posting to public sites such as this. It can make the spreadsheet more complicated, but certainly eases concerns of users that might be interested in downloading it.

I did find a bug in the LeaderBoard worksheet ... a range that was fixed at four rows, and should have been set to dynamically change with the number of teams in the tournament.

I added the column listing the starting hole for each team with the intent of changing the calculation of the omitted holes to the 17th and 18th holes played ... but changed my mind ... so, this column is just a comment at the moment, and is not referenced in any formula. The teams that are shown to start on the 19th and 20th holes ... an oops on my part ... should have been 1 and 2 ... good find! I agree that in a scramble format, there may not be a need to omit any holes, and that is certainly an option in the spreadsheet that I've posted.

applegrower · October 23, 2014

Hi
I was looking for some help on my skins score sheet.
Everything works great on it and I appreciate everyones work on it as well as the scheid callaway sheets form jmazz. We use both of these yearly in our golf trips and it works out great!

Back to the skins, we have a daily $5 bet for the skins that everyone in our group is involved in, the sheet works great for that. Aside from that we have several individuals who bet against each other in their own private bets. Is there a line of formula that can be added so that players can be added or removed with ease?
For example, if john had a separate skins bet against pete, is there a way to only count those 2 scores in their own separate skins match?
I was thinking if an "x" could be placed in a box A on the "Net scores + skins count" beside the players name to determine whether that player is in the skins match or not. I am just not excel literate enough to figure out how to do that

I have attached the file that I am using, Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

applegrower · October 27, 2014

Hi Again

I think I have figured out how to eliminate players as needed, just want to make sure i have done it correctly?
Could desperately use some help on converting these sheets to include carryovers - for example, would like to be able to eliminate all but any given 2 players and have the sheet recalculate the hole by hole skins winners with carryovers - if there is a tie for the first 3 holes and a single player has the outright lowest on the fourth hole, he would get the skin for the fourth hole as well as the carryover on hole 1, 2 and 3 (and the cell would highlight in yellow for the carryovers as well)

applegrower · October 27, 2014

sorry, here is the updated file

applegrower · November 5, 2014

here is the latest version

ehbee · November 9, 2014

I’ve uploaded a spreadsheet to the MS OneDrive at the following URL. The spreadsheet name is “Skins Game with Side Bets.xlsx” … there is also a PDF notes file with the same name. The pdf file is also embedded in a notes worksheet in the spreadsheet file.

[url="http://1drv.ms/1udD8Nu"]http://1drv.ms/1udD8Nu[/url]

JMazz · January 21, 2015

Just checked back to see if this forum was still alive as I get about a request a month for the spreadsheet. I noticed the concern with macro enabled spreadsheets. Being the trustful guy I am, I never considered the malicious play with the macro. So, I removed the macro form the sheet and added a manual way to change hole omission (adding an X above hole 16). Email is still the same so if you'd like a copy emailed just let me know.

knightto · March 19, 2015

I pulled down the Sheid Tournament spreadsheet from this forum and attempted to add 2 things. I'm failing miserably since I'm a GOLFER and not a developer. ;-)
I'm hoping someone can help me and add these to the spreadsheet.
1. 5 round outing with a leaderboard. callaway scoring, (we're going on a golf trip next week to myrtle, 5 rounds)
2. allow for an "established handicap" prior to the start of the 5 rounds
BONUS: If you have time maybe make it easy to add a tab for extra rounds...

Anyone capable of something like this or explaning HOW to add another round/tab?

Thanks
tk_hacker

knightto · March 19, 2015

[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1405369484' post='9699533']
Thanks for the reply and the offer to see if you can use only Excel formulas!

Regarding the omission of the golfer's 17th and 18th holes played: I certainly agree with your conclusion about the handicap differences. However, my understanding is the reason that these holes were omitted when golfers start on hole 1 was to prevent "end of round tanking/sandbagging". Here is a quote from [url="http://www.leaderboard.com/callaway.htm"]one explanation of the Callaway system[/url], which also omits the 16th hole scores:
[indent=1][i]Now the 16th, 17th and 18th holes are eliminated from further consideration. In Jeff's case, we can see why this rule is used. It is quite common for players to "tank" towards the very end of the round, either due to tiring... Or simply due to "sandbagging" which is an overt attempt to try to drive up their handicap[/i].[/indent]
Now I'm not smart enough to know how this end-of-round stuff affects the eventual outcome, just that historically this has been done. Since you are trying to eliminate these end of round shenanigans it makes sense to eliminate the last two holes a group plays.

I'll note that Knuth's site doesn't mention omitting the 17th and 18th holes, but his site, IMHO, doesn't exactly reflect his thoughts on how the system works. He was quite gracious in answering many of my questions but after several exchanges he indicated that the had given me all the time he could on the matter. The questions he did answer are reflected in the spreadsheet I produced. At least I think they are!

Knuth was consistent in stating that worst holes were relative to par.

What I would love to find is Schied's original paper on this. I tried without success to locate it. When I asked Knuth where I could find it I got the answer that he had no more time for me. [url="http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=25501"]This was the closest I could come to Schied's paper[/url], but it does not mention the four rules that are on Knuth's site.

It would be interesting to look at the spreadsheet and see if end of round shenanigans actually can make much of a difference in the outcomes. Regrettably it would be several weeks before I could run some tests.

[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1405305883' post='9694849']
[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1401131987' post='9369497']
This is my first cut at a Scramble Tournament Spreadsheet, based upon [url="http://www.popeofslope.com/scramble/handicapping.html"]Knuth's modified Shied system[/url]. I exchanged emails with Knuth and his website isn't totally correct. I think the spreadsheet implements what he intended.

Some notes, the spreadsheet's "Adj" sheet has more details:[list]
[*]It is for a one-day event
[*]It allows for a shotgun start, where a group's starting hole determines its 17th and 18th holes (which usually aren't the course's 17th and 18th holes).
[*]Max score is a double bogey
[*]"Worst Holes" are computed relative to par
[*]The system does not care what a course's par is.
[/list]
I left the original sheet's worst hole computations, which were irrespective of par, in so you can see what difference there is in the two computations. [u]In order to compute the worst holes relative to par I used a User-Defined Function (i.e,, a macro)[/u]. I'm not an Excel expert, so I gave up trying to do the computations with standard Excel functions. (FWIW - this was the first user-defined function I've written).

The "Leader Board" sheet does not work. There are a bunch of computations relative to the hidden "Tourney Stats" sheet and player ranking on the "Round 1" sheet that I don't understand.

I am certainly not an Excel expert, so comments/suggestions are readily welcomed. Especially if you know how to replace the macro with standard Excel functions.

[url="https://www.dropbox.com/s/6n1k45bq9s2xczf/Scramble-Tournament-Scorecard-v1.xlsm"]You can find the spreadsheet here[/url].

P.S. A Big Thank You! to the original authors!
[/quote]

I'm not sure that I agree with the shotgun start rule that says you should omit the 17th and 18th holes that are played, not the 17th and 18th holes of the course. Seems to me that this will result in a handicap calculation that is not equitable to all groups. Some teams will have the number 1 handicap hole (the most difficult hole on the course) omitted, while other teams will have the number 18 handicap hole (the easiest) omitted. Seems to me that this would result in an unfair advantage to some groups, and a disadvantage to others. Does anybody agree?

There also seems to be some confusion regarding the determination of the worst holes ... I've seen some descriptions that clearly state that the worst hole is the hole with the highest gross score regardless of par rating, and I've also seen descriptions that suggest as you've described that the worst score should be determined relative to par. I'm not sure which is correct ... the spreadsheet that I posted previously did not use par rating in the worst hole determination.

I'll have a look and try to modify the spreadsheet to calculate worst holes relative to par using only Excel formulas. If I can figure it out, I'll post here.
[/quote]
[/quote]

So that it's clear for me.... which format works where 1. the leaderboard is working 2. also calculates the worst holes relative to PAR?
ALSO.... Any chance it's easy to add a 5th round?

ehbee · March 19, 2015

[quote name='knightto' timestamp='1426790705' post='11174483']
[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1405369484' post='9699533']
Thanks for the reply and the offer to see if you can use only Excel formulas!

Regarding the omission of the golfer's 17th and 18th holes played: I certainly agree with your conclusion about the handicap differences. However, my understanding is the reason that these holes were omitted when golfers start on hole 1 was to prevent "end of round tanking/sandbagging". Here is a quote from [url="http://www.leaderboard.com/callaway.htm"]one explanation of the Callaway system[/url], which also omits the 16th hole scores:
[indent=1][i]Now the 16th, 17th and 18th holes are eliminated from further consideration. In Jeff's case, we can see why this rule is used. It is quite common for players to "tank" towards the very end of the round, either due to tiring... Or simply due to "sandbagging" which is an overt attempt to try to drive up their handicap[/i].[/indent]
Now I'm not smart enough to know how this end-of-round stuff affects the eventual outcome, just that historically this has been done. Since you are trying to eliminate these end of round shenanigans it makes sense to eliminate the last two holes a group plays.

I'll note that Knuth's site doesn't mention omitting the 17th and 18th holes, but his site, IMHO, doesn't exactly reflect his thoughts on how the system works. He was quite gracious in answering many of my questions but after several exchanges he indicated that the had given me all the time he could on the matter. The questions he did answer are reflected in the spreadsheet I produced. At least I think they are!

Knuth was consistent in stating that worst holes were relative to par.

What I would love to find is Schied's original paper on this. I tried without success to locate it. When I asked Knuth where I could find it I got the answer that he had no more time for me. [url="http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=25501"]This was the closest I could come to Schied's paper[/url], but it does not mention the four rules that are on Knuth's site.

It would be interesting to look at the spreadsheet and see if end of round shenanigans actually can make much of a difference in the outcomes. Regrettably it would be several weeks before I could run some tests.

[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1405305883' post='9694849']
[quote name='granitebaygolfer' timestamp='1401131987' post='9369497']
This is my first cut at a Scramble Tournament Spreadsheet, based upon [url="http://www.popeofslope.com/scramble/handicapping.html"]Knuth's modified Shied system[/url]. I exchanged emails with Knuth and his website isn't totally correct. I think the spreadsheet implements what he intended.

Some notes, the spreadsheet's "Adj" sheet has more details:[list]
[*]It is for a one-day event
[*]It allows for a shotgun start, where a group's starting hole determines its 17th and 18th holes (which usually aren't the course's 17th and 18th holes).
[*]Max score is a double bogey
[*]"Worst Holes" are computed relative to par
[*]The system does not care what a course's par is.
[/list]
I left the original sheet's worst hole computations, which were irrespective of par, in so you can see what difference there is in the two computations. [u]In order to compute the worst holes relative to par I used a User-Defined Function (i.e,, a macro)[/u]. I'm not an Excel expert, so I gave up trying to do the computations with standard Excel functions. (FWIW - this was the first user-defined function I've written).

The "Leader Board" sheet does not work. There are a bunch of computations relative to the hidden "Tourney Stats" sheet and player ranking on the "Round 1" sheet that I don't understand.

I am certainly not an Excel expert, so comments/suggestions are readily welcomed. Especially if you know how to replace the macro with standard Excel functions.

[url="https://www.dropbox.com/s/6n1k45bq9s2xczf/Scramble-Tournament-Scorecard-v1.xlsm"]You can find the spreadsheet here[/url].

P.S. A Big Thank You! to the original authors!
[/quote]

I'm not sure that I agree with the shotgun start rule that says you should omit the 17th and 18th holes that are played, not the 17th and 18th holes of the course. Seems to me that this will result in a handicap calculation that is not equitable to all groups. Some teams will have the number 1 handicap hole (the most difficult hole on the course) omitted, while other teams will have the number 18 handicap hole (the easiest) omitted. Seems to me that this would result in an unfair advantage to some groups, and a disadvantage to others. Does anybody agree?

There also seems to be some confusion regarding the determination of the worst holes ... I've seen some descriptions that clearly state that the worst hole is the hole with the highest gross score regardless of par rating, and I've also seen descriptions that suggest as you've described that the worst score should be determined relative to par. I'm not sure which is correct ... the spreadsheet that I posted previously did not use par rating in the worst hole determination.

I'll have a look and try to modify the spreadsheet to calculate worst holes relative to par using only Excel formulas. If I can figure it out, I'll post here.
[/quote]
[/quote]

So that it's clear for me.... which format works where 1. the leaderboard is working 2. also calculates the worst holes relative to PAR?
ALSO.... Any chance it's easy to add a 5th round?
[/quote]

I will review the spreadsheets that I've posted and confirm which file computes the worst scores relative to par, and also verify that the leaderboard works as it should.

I can also create a custom spreadsheet for your trip, but will need some additional details on exactly what it is that you need. I'll try to send you a personal message outlining some of the information that I might need.

Andy

ehbee · March 19, 2015

See the Scheid-Tournament-scorecard-v5.0 spreadsheet posted here ... [url="http://1drv.ms/1udD8Nu"]http://1drv.ms/1udD8Nu[/url] ... this version does calculate worst holes relative to Par and the leader board should work. I've also added 3 additional rounds, so it will now handle a 7 round tournament. Hope this helps.

Andy

knightto · April 7, 2015

I'm looking for the following.....

- single round outing for 20 golfers
- Peoria scoring

I'm trying to modify some of the existing spreadsheets here but have trouble making the "hcp holes" value go into the formula

ehbee · April 7, 2015

[quote name='knightto' timestamp='1428415535' post='11302041']
I'm looking for the following.....

- single round outing for 20 golfers
- Peoria scoring

I'm trying to modify some of the existing spreadsheets here but have trouble making the "hcp holes" value go into the formula
[/quote]

Stay tuned ...

ehbee · April 9, 2015

Spreadsheet for one day standard Peoria handicap event for up to 100 golfers ... spreadsheet also tracks skins and gross / net score leaderboard. Spreadsheet can be downloaded from the link below ...

[url="http://1drv.ms/1cfOjQa"]http://1drv.ms/1cfOjQa[/url]

Andy

DufferAT · June 4, 2015

Hello Everyone!

I'm new to this site and what I'm really looking for is a Callaway Handicap calculator. Who has the latest version of anything that can do this?

DufferAT · June 4, 2015

[quote name='JMazz' timestamp='1367271893' post='6939675']
[quote name='photofox55' timestamp='1359503937' post='6325295']
...also, in the Callaway system, the largest handicap permitted is 50. For example, if a player scored 8 on every hole of a course that had par values of 4 on every hole, he would be entitled to a deduction of 7 1/2 holes with a gross score of 144. So, according to the table, the calculated handicap would be (7 * 8) + 4 + 1 = 61. In the Callaway world, this would be reduced to 50 resulting in a net Callaway score of 144 - 50 = 94. 144 - 61 = 83 would be incorrect. I don't know if the Scheid variation has the same restriction.
[/quote]

Good catch there. I've updated my Callaway sheet to include the maximum of 50 for a handicap although the sheet only goes up to a maximum score in the 120s before it decides to call it quits... I guess my assumption was that if someone shoots that high a score they probably need to be on the range not the course!

This is the first time I've checked back on this in a while. It's good to see these sheets are getting some play!
[/quote]I finally have this program running. Thank you. Can I increase the number of players? Also, is there a way to determine the winner if there are Net ties?
So far no errors running the XLS. Thanks.

ehbee · June 4, 2015

I'm not sure which spreadsheet you're using ... there are several available on this site. I'm sure that the number of players can be increased, but it may require some understanding of how the spreadsheet was written. How many players do you want the spreadsheet to handle? As for determining the winner in the event of net ties, one method that I have used in the past is retrogression, which I think is described above in this forum. There are a couple of variations that can be used, but the one I have used most recently compares the sum of the last nine holes (gross scores), low score is declared the winner ... if still tied, compare the sum of scores on the last six holes, low score wins ... if still tied, compare sum of the last 3 holes, low score wins ... if still tied, compare the score on the last hole, low score wins. The process can be carried on using scores from the front nine if tie is still unbroken.

If you let me know how many players you want, I can put something together that includes the retrogression tie breaking algorithm. Are you looking for a Callaway calculation, or can you use the Scheid variation of the Callaway calculation?

Ironhead1530 · June 7, 2015

[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1433474572' post='11692984']
I'm not sure which spreadsheet you're using ... there are several available on this site. I'm sure that the number of players can be increased, but it may require some understanding of how the spreadsheet was written. How many players do you want the spreadsheet to handle? As for determining the winner in the event of net ties, one method that I have used in the past is retrogression, which I think is described above in this forum. There are a couple of variations that can be used, but the one I have used most recently compares the sum of the last nine holes (gross scores), low score is declared the winner ... if still tied, compare the sum of scores on the last six holes, low score wins ... if still tied, compare sum of the last 3 holes, low score wins ... if still tied, compare the score on the last hole, low score wins. The process can be carried on using scores from the front nine if tie is still unbroken.

If you let me know how many players you want, I can put something together that includes the retrogression tie breaking algorithm. Are you looking for a Callaway calculation, or can you use the Scheid variation of the Callaway calculation?
[/quote]

ehbee.... would you be able to adjust the scheid tournament version 5 for a 9 hole round? I'm running a league and we all like this format for scoring (a big mix of beginners as well as scratch golfers.... and not everyone plays every week). Our rounds are 9 hole rounds and we alternate front and back each week. Is there anything you can put together? Should I email you?

Thanks in Advance!

Hateto3Putt · June 7, 2015

ehbee, er, Andy, I gotta tell you, we've been running your Callaway sheet for a few years now during our Callaway competition on our Myrtle Beach trip.

20-32 guys, It's flawless!

I know it's not a big deal for Excel masters like yourself to create and revise until perfect sheets like this, but when it just works flawlessly, it's a big deal to the scorekeepers out here!

So again, thanks for doing this!

ehbee · June 7, 2015

[quote name='Ironhead1530' timestamp='1433694976' post='11705866']
[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1433474572' post='11692984']
I'm not sure which spreadsheet you're using ... there are several available on this site. I'm sure that the number of players can be increased, but it may require some understanding of how the spreadsheet was written. How many players do you want the spreadsheet to handle? As for determining the winner in the event of net ties, one method that I have used in the past is retrogression, which I think is described above in this forum. There are a couple of variations that can be used, but the one I have used most recently compares the sum of the last nine holes (gross scores), low score is declared the winner ... if still tied, compare the sum of scores on the last six holes, low score wins ... if still tied, compare sum of the last 3 holes, low score wins ... if still tied, compare the score on the last hole, low score wins. The process can be carried on using scores from the front nine if tie is still unbroken.

If you let me know how many players you want, I can put something together that includes the retrogression tie breaking algorithm. Are you looking for a Callaway calculation, or can you use the Scheid variation of the Callaway calculation?
[/quote]

ehbee.... would you be able to adjust the scheid tournament version 5 for a 9 hole round? I'm running a league and we all like this format for scoring (a big mix of beginners as well as scratch golfers.... and not everyone plays every week). Our rounds are 9 hole rounds and we alternate front and back each week. Is there anything you can put together? Should I email you?

Thanks in Advance!
[/quote]

I'm not sure how to adjust the Scheid tables for a 9 hole round ... this is the first time I've had anybody ask about using Scheid scoring for a 9 hole round. Let me see if I can come up with something that might work.

Can you send me a PM with details on how you're scoring your games now? How are you currently calculating net scores?

Andy

ehbee · June 7, 2015

[quote name='Hateto3Putt' timestamp='1433695455' post='11705912']
ehbee, er, Andy, I gotta tell you, we've been running your Callaway sheet for a few years now during our Callaway competition on our Myrtle Beach trip.

20-32 guys, It's flawless!

I know it's not a big deal for Excel masters like yourself to create and revise until perfect sheets like this, but when it just works flawlessly, it's a big deal to the scorekeepers out here!

So again, thanks for doing this!
[/quote]

You're very welcome .... Glad to hear that things are working for you. Let me know if you ever need any changes and I'll do my best to accommodate.

Andy

ehbee · June 27, 2015

[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1433732290' post='11708848']
[quote name='Ironhead1530' timestamp='1433694976' post='11705866']
[quote name='ehbee' timestamp='1433474572' post='11692984']
I'm not sure which spreadsheet you're using ... there are several available on this site. I'm sure that the number of players can be increased, but it may require some understanding of how the spreadsheet was written. How many players do you want the spreadsheet to handle? As for determining the winner in the event of net ties, one method that I have used in the past is retrogression, which I think is described above in this forum. There are a couple of variations that can be used, but the one I have used most recently compares the sum of the last nine holes (gross scores), low score is declared the winner ... if still tied, compare the sum of scores on the last six holes, low score wins ... if still tied, compare sum of the last 3 holes, low score wins ... if still tied, compare the score on the last hole, low score wins. The process can be carried on using scores from the front nine if tie is still unbroken.

If you let me know how many players you want, I can put something together that includes the retrogression tie breaking algorithm. Are you looking for a Callaway calculation, or can you use the Scheid variation of the Callaway calculation?
[/quote]

ehbee.... would you be able to adjust the scheid tournament version 5 for a 9 hole round? I'm running a league and we all like this format for scoring (a big mix of beginners as well as scratch golfers.... and not everyone plays every week). Our rounds are 9 hole rounds and we alternate front and back each week. Is there anything you can put together? Should I email you?

Thanks in Advance!
[/quote]

I'm not sure how to adjust the Scheid tables for a 9 hole round ... this is the first time I've had anybody ask about using Scheid scoring for a 9 hole round. Let me see if I can come up with something that might work.

Can you send me a PM with details on how you're scoring your games now? How are you currently calculating net scores?

Andy
[/quote]
Just sent you a PM with a link to a spreadsheet that calculates a 9 hole Callaway HC based on your course layout.

Andy

Ironhead1530 · July 2, 2015

Thanks Andy. I really appreciate it!!

colbygraves · May 16, 2016

Does anyone out there have an excel sheet for a 9 hole Callaway handicap?

Thank you in advance!

ehbee · May 18, 2016

Does anyone out there have an excel sheet for a 9 hole Callaway handicap?

Thank you in advance!

Yes, I have one that might work for you ... same spreadsheet mentioned above. If you send me a personal message with your email address, I will send it to you since I can't post it here.

oregongolf · November 24, 2016

Can anyone amend these for a Par 54 course?

jleggett · July 9, 2017

_{Found aa bug in the Scheid scorecard variation posted earlier, so I'm re-posting a corrected version. Also added the option for a PAR 73 course as was requested in an another post. Also added the option to manually enter the hole numbers to be omitted from the "Worst hole(s) stroke deduction" calculation. Previous version defaulted to holes 17 and 18 ... this version provides the flexibility to enter up to 3 holes to be excluded from this calculation.}

_Andy

This spreadsheet is great! Any chance you can convert the scoring from the Scheid to the standard Callaway Scoring System? Can that be done easily?

Thanks.
Yes .. it can be converted to the Callaway Scoring System. I'll post when I've had a chance to make the changes. Currently in Mexico ... on a golfing holiday :golfer:

Here is a version of the spreadsheeet using the Callaway handicap tables ... also posting an updated copy of the Scheid spreadsheet ... both versions implement the maximum handicap deduction of 50 strokes. Unable to upload spreadsheets in .xlsx format, so files have been resaved in .xls format so some conditional formatting may be lost.

Fixed bug in Callaway-Tournament-Scorecard ... re-posted v1.2
Fixed bug in Scheidd-Calloway-Tournament-Scorecard ... re-posted v3.5

Hello,

I know this thread was started long ago, but i have tournament coming up and we'll be using the scheid scoring system. I started browsing the web for an excel sheet for scoring and came across this thread... AWESOME JOB!!! i have one concern (maybe...unless I'm seeing something wrong). On the scheid excel sheet version 3.5 on this post, I've noticed that the formula references the adjusted gross score before going to the scheid scoring chart. If I'm reading the rules correctly, aren't you supposed to use the players straight up gross score, find it on the scheid chart, THEN when choosing the holes for adjustment you use the adjusted gross for no more than double par? I believe this version is adjusting the gross score for no more than double par AND THEN going to the scheid chart for handicap adjustments.

Am i reading the rules wrong? http://www.myscorecard.com/cgi-bin/knowledgecenter.pl?mode=article&category=handicapinfo&file=callaway&article=The%20Callaway%20System\

Either way, amazing job on this. I was going to try and start an excel sheet for this and am glad i didnt becasue i would have been LOST! If your still tied to this thread, I'd appreciate your feedback.