Playing Hickory Golf

[ALIF]

Ok, following this thread has got me wanting to try out some hickories. It sounds like a lot of fun. I live in Phoenix, AZ. I'm wondering if I can rent a set for a couple of weeks to play and practice with to see if would like it. Any suggestions??

[ebeer]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1451004029' post='12760910']
Ok, following this thread has got me wanting to try out some hickories. It sounds like a lot of fun. I live in Phoenix, AZ. I'm wondering if I can rent a set for a couple of weeks to play and practice with to see if would like it. Any suggestions??
[/quote]

Recommend you check out the Society of Hickory Golfers (hickorygolfers.com). I don't recall any listed hickory playing clubs in AZ, but there a lot of resources there and you might find some local players. There's a great hickory event in Scottsdale every year. People fly in from all over and many will have extra sets I'm sure they would loan out.

[ALIF]

[quote name='ebeer' timestamp='1451011280' post='12761270']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1451004029' post='12760910']
Ok, following this thread has got me wanting to try out some hickories. It sounds like a lot of fun. I live in Phoenix, AZ. I'm wondering if I can rent a set for a couple of weeks to play and practice with to see if would like it. Any suggestions??
[/quote]

Recommend you check out the Society of Hickory Golfers (hickorygolfers.com). I don't recall any listed hickory playing clubs in AZ, but there a lot of resources there and you might find some local players. There's a great hickory event in Scottsdale every year. People fly in from all over and many will have extra sets I'm sure they would loan out.
[/quote]

Thanks! I'll check it out.

[Blade Junkie]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1451004029' post='12760910']
Ok, following this thread has got me wanting to try out some hickories. It sounds like a lot of fun. I live in Phoenix, AZ. I'm wondering if I can rent a set for a couple of weeks to play and practice with to see if would like it. Any suggestions??
[/quote]

Join the Society of Hickory Golfers and sign up for the Arizona Desert Hickory event in February !

https://www.hickorygolfers.com/arizona-desert-hickory_2280_t.aspx

They can provide rental sets, and there is a "new to hickory" player category ... so you might even win a prize!

Hickory stalwart Ken Holtz is the organiser. He lives in Sun City West, and is the SoHG hickory "mentor" for Arizona.

[scomac2002]

Cool! I'm not sure why it took me so long to check out the SoHG web site. A few clicks and I was on the Canadian site and then onto the Eastern Canadian Hickory Championship held each September at the NOTL Golf and CC. That is one of the Stanley Thompson designed courses that I have mentioned here on many occasions that I enjoy playing and is a great fit for vintage play! It's less than an hour drive from home! I'll have to mark that on my calendar to at least go as a spectator.

[Fellaheen51]

[quote name='Blade Junkie' timestamp='1451035506' post='12761984']
They can provide rental sets, and there is a "new to hickory" player category ... so you might even win a prize!
[/quote]

That sounds intriguing. Any hickory game I would have is so "Not Ready for Prime Time" that I would be afraid of embarrassing myself in public. But, with a "hickory hack" category....misery loves company so wouldn't be so bad. Don't see anything listed in Michigan yet. But may reach out to a local chapter to inquire about such a status for next season. Noticed the group had a late season tournament at Indianwood C.C. (private), a wonderful old school links golf course that is 10 minutes from home. Would be fun to play there again (played once as a guest in an outing many years ago), even if it was hacking with hickory. One problem I can see moving forward, seemingly everyone plays in ties. I stopped wearing those (5x per week for 30+years) when I retired. Don't think I could play golf so lassoed.

[quote name='scomac2002' timestamp='1451058599' post='12762476']
Cool! I'm not sure why it took me so long to check out the SoHG web site. A few clicks and I was on the Canadian site and then onto the Eastern Canadian Hickory Championship held each September at the NOTL Golf and CC. That is one of the Stanley Thompson designed courses that I have mentioned here on many occasions that I enjoy playing and is a great fit for vintage play! It's less than an hour drive from home! I'll have to mark that on my calendar to at least go as a spectator.
[/quote]

Be careful there buddy! The SoHG website is a dangerous place. Think they're performing some type subliminal messaging that draws you in. Especially once you begin looking at pics of the wonderful courses they're playing. Not to mention the clubs they use to play them.

Have enough problems keeping the contemporary golf game at a modicum level of respectability without delving into the uncharted territory of hickory.

[scomac2002]

[quote name='Fellaheen51' timestamp='1451132087' post='12764738']
Be careful there buddy! The SoHG website is a dangerous place. Think they're performing some type subliminal messaging that draws you in. Especially once you begin looking at pics of the wonderful courses they're playing. Not to mention the clubs they use to play them. [/quote]

Yessss. Powerful the force it is!

[quote]
Have enough problems keeping the contemporary golf game at a modicum level of respectability without delving into the uncharted territory of hickory.
[/quote]

As do I, but apprentices of wood and the blade we have become. Let the power of the force flow through you! There is no try; only do...or do not!

FWIW the runner-up in the ladies division at the Eastern Canadian Hickory Championship was a first time hickory player. Check out some of the scores posted by regular competitors on the SoHG web site and you will see that many are just like you and I -- regular golfers -- they're there for the love of the game. And you have to admit that the apparel and kit are so cool! The first stop for the curious could be an Otey Crisman -- guaranteed to be a conversation piece even in the modern bag!

[majic]

Two Michigan groups. The Wyandotte group plays the course there. The Michigan Hickory group plays events in Michigan and Toledo and Indiana.
Michigan Hickory is run by my 4 Ball partner Roger Hill. [email protected]
Give Roger an email. Many great events. He will fix you up.

[Fellaheen51]

Thank you for the info. ^ sir. The Wyandotte group have several gatherings from what I observe and they're relatively local. Mr. Hill is on the other side of the state. Making plans to try and attend the Belvedere Open next June. Play there occasionally when North, wonderful old school parkland style golf course. One of the best in the area IMO. I real treat to play in early October. The Mrs. likes it because she is not intimated by the layout (i.e. forced carries). I digress...

As I proceed with bringing this rusty pile of old hickories back to playability, a couple of questions:

1. Notice that irons sometimes are whipped at the hosel and at a couple of points up the shaft. Was this to strengthen the shaft at these points against breakage? Or just cosmetic? See this usually with the high quality Sottish irons (i.e. Stewart, Condie, etc.). Rarely with American commons.

2. From what I've read, straighten a shaft is a function of applying heat and using a jig. Wondering if this could be accomplished by using a 'WorkMate' that has a adjustable table? Any tips/techniques in this area would be appreciated. Can a shaft be straightened while leaving the existing grip in place? The grips on a couple of bowed shaft irons are in pretty good shape. Do not want to expend the time and expense to change them until I play the club, see if its suitable.

3. Horn Slip? Is that a material or just what the insert is called at the bottom, leading edge of a wood? If material, since I don't have any of it laying around, what modern, available material could be used. Have a nice hickory brassie that is very restorable but has a missing "horn slip".

What am I getting myself into? Enjoying it so far. Irons are almost to a point of being able to post some "after" pictures. As always, TIA.

[Bella Woods]

Fellaheen:

The Michigan Hickory Tour plays at least once a month during the season
at various points in the lower east and west of Michigan, Ohio, Indiana
and Wisconsin. Check out the group on the SOHG website.

Ralph Livingston started the whipping at the hosel because he thought
that most of the breaks happen there, so yes was to add strength.

If you check out Randy Jensen's book, he shows you how to straighten a
shaft with a groove cut out of a wood workbench, I think Tad uses this
method too (or used to). The guys in Vermont sell a board to do the same
with a heat gun. Yes you can straighten a hickory shaft with the grip (and
head) on - but if the bow is below the grip you need to remove it to do it
obviously.

As far as the "horn" - originally I believe was called Ram's horn and was
actually made out of that. Most of them are some type of fiber though which
you can still find here and there.

Looking forward to the after pics.......


Edit: Some people like the whipping at the hosel (I do) and some don't care for
the way it looks etc. It helps very slightly with swingweighting too.

[majic]

The whipping is a personal thing. If a shaft is going to break at the top of the hosel the whipping won't help. You might be able to get some strength if you could really whip to the point of the whipping being able to actually compress or put the hickory in compression. On the shaft if you make it a little long like 3 inches and cost the whipping with epoxy you can get some torque improvement but very little. Some old shafts with weak condition relating to torque can be improved. I see very little improvement improvement in stiffness. Whipping can help with swing weight.
My feeling about Jones Calamity Jane putter when J Victor East made his replacement putter he had to add back the whipping for weight. I have seen the original shaft and it was cracked but glued tight. The whipping added weight. Whipping on the hosel of a hickory driver is about one point depending on material-2 grams

[gvogel]

Happy New Year to everyone that enjoys the hickory game.

May you play many enjoyable rounds with your favorite hickory clubs this year!

[Fellaheen51]

A passing comment made in another thread piqued my curiosity about re-shafting woods with hickory. That is, installing one in a wood that originally had steel (or pyratone steel). I have several acquisitions that are potential candidates. A very nice Wilson Related 4100 "Fancy Face" (Ivora?) driver in particular. This topic was raised by HC in this thread:

 

(http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1099833-re-shafting-steel-shafted-woods-with-hickory/).

 

Also discussed the legality of re-shafts for SOHG play. Which, near as I could tell from reading, was determined to be a "maybe".

 

The ones I have are most assuredly shafted .294 (?). Definitely skinny at the hosel. Does a new, modern hickory shaft have a specific diameter tip size as 'standard'? Was there standardization of bore size for hickory shafted woods manufactured in the 20th century (i.e 1910 - 1935)?

 

Thinking this may be a way to go for the reasons HC mentioned in the referenced thread (availability of heads/clubs relative to cost). Removable of a shaft from an old persimmon wood head not withstanding. I have a suspicion that this may not be as "easy" as re-shafting a modern driver. Someone, please talk me out of this if it has the potential for becoming a major fiasco. TIA.

[majic]

I hope Bella will respond as he just did this.

As your question about legal for SoHG play go to hickorygolfers.com and read up on it.

 

[Fellaheen51]

Yes, t'was Bella mentioning this in the "Dave Wood's" thread this a.m. Tad, does your hickory wood shafts come with a standard tip size? Assuming one would need to "turn/shave them to fit" an individual vintage wood head. Concerned that going .294 would be to small for strength.

[Bella Woods]

A passing comment made in another thread piqued my curiosity about re-shafting woods with hickory. That is, installing one in a wood that originally had steel (or pyratone steel). I have several acquisitions that are potential candidates. A very nice Wilson Related 4100 "Fancy Face" (Ivora?) driver in particular. This topic was raised by HC in this thread:

 

(http://www.golfwrx.c...s-with-hickory/).

 

Also discussed the legality of re-shafts for SOHG play. Which, near as I could tell from reading, was determined to be a "maybe".

 

The ones I have are most assuredly shafted .294 (?). Definitely skinny at the hosel. Does a new, modern hickory shaft have a specific diameter tip size as 'standard'? Was there standardization of bore size for hickory shafted woods manufactured in the 20th century (i.e 1910 - 1935)?

 

Thinking this may be a way to go for the reasons HC mentioned in the referenced thread (availability of heads/clubs relative to cost). Removable of a shaft from an old persimmon wood head not withstanding. I have a suspicion that this may not be as "easy" as re-shafting a modern driver. Someone, please talk me out of this if it has the potential for becoming a major fiasco. TIA.

 

Fellaheen:

 

As Tad mentioned I am in the process of retrofitting my 1932 Spalding Cushion Neck woods. Mine were .294 tip blind bore Spalding "Mahogany" steel shafts - their proprietary form of a pyratone steel shaft, and the "dreaded Cushion Neck". I say dreaded because

nobody likes to mess with them - difficult to take out.

 

I basically removed the shafts, cut the hosel down 1/2" (almost all retro fit from steel to hickory will involve cutting the hosel to some

extent due to how skinny it is with the steel shaft). In my case they were very long hosels anyway, so you can't really tell. I was left

with .50 hosel width at the top after cutting the 1/2".

 

I then step reamed (not bored) the existing tapered bore (.294 at bottom and .320 at top) with .31, .33, .35 and .37 all the way down,

.39 two thirds of the way down, .41 on half of the way down and .43 three quarters of an inch down. Then I took a round file and

hand smoothed the steps down and finished off the top at .465 (very thin at top). So I ended up with a ..37 to .465 taper in the bore.

Took the hickory shafts I got from Tad and sanded/fitted them into the bore. Ended up within 1/2 degree of the original lie angles so I

was happy with that. You could fill the existing bore with say epoxy, and rebore them (as opposed to reaming them) but a reamer

will follow the existing hole so lie angle will remain the same for the most part.

 

Tad would know the "standard" taper on a shaft but I think it is somewhere around .37 at bottom and .50 at top - I know he told me

when I was discussing this project with him that you want it as thick as you can get it at the top of the hosel.

 

As far as SOHG legality - retrofitting irons (any iron) is not allowed - but any wood made prior to 1935 (even if it only came with

steel shafts and hickory was not an option - like my 1932 Spalding's) is allowed to be retrofitted. I wanted to do this because the

Spalding's are nice size heads designed to replicate the woods Bobby Jones played in his heyday and during the slam season.

 

Its not as easy as re-shafting a modern wood (or classic/persimmon for that matter), but I did not find it that difficult to do. You need

a good quality hickory shaft though.

 

I broke down a bought a frequency analyzer for myself for Christmas, and I am very impressed with the consistency of Tads

hickory shafts (the ones he has made for me) flex wise.

[Fellaheen51]

Thank you sir for your posting. A first rate tutorial on the process.

 

Now just need to determine ages of these woods to see if they're pre-1935 and candidates. Pretty sure the Wilson qualifies, based on comparative info I've gleaned.

 

Would think that some type of "documentation of age" would be necessary for legality purposes at a SOHG event.

[Bella Woods]

A couple of pics of the 1932 Spalding Cushion Neck Robert T. Jones, Jr. driver.....

 

The facing is not quite done at this point - started with quite a strong loft (8 degrees) and

would like to get it to 10 1/2 degrees. Currently it is at 10 degrees but I have to maintain face

progression too - if it ends at 10 degrees I'm OK with it from a playability standpoint. Face bulge is

currently 9 inch radius - would like to get it to 10 inch. A few cosmetic touch ups still needed too.

 

I ended up using a Jacobus insert style because I did not want to mess with the horn - its very

solid on these clubs. Some scoring lines (I think 5) will go in but no face screws. On the view from

the top, the inside top and bottom of the face will have some stain "feathered in" so the face does not

look as rounded as it does now from address position. The epoxy at the top of the hosel is for

added strength and will be tapered to fit under the whipping.

 

I was going to sand out the dents in the head (they look worse in the picture than in person) and

stain it a reddish color - but now am going to just leave them as they are (I don't want to change

the head characteristics) and put a coat of Mahogany stain on it to keep it original looking.

 

Driver is 43 3/4" long, 387 grams total weight and D-0 swingweight without head finished and neck

whipping. Should finish about D-2 when done. CPM is 298.5 on frequency - hickory equivalent of S 500

in True Temper flex.

 

 

 

 

[majic]

Wilson clubs are pretty easy to tell age. I don't have the list but I am sure if you contact Rob Ahlschwede the SoHG guy he can tell you. I think his contact info on web site

[majic]

Fellaheen let me know if I can help your hickory project [email protected]

[ebeer]

Just a few shots from the Morro Bay Hickory Clambake this weekend held at the Morro Bay Golf Course originally built in 1923. The course plays on a slope overlooking the coast with water visible on nearly every hole. It's very fun course that is well suited to hickory play, but watch out for the greens as local knowledge is key in predicting the many counter intuitive "uphill breakers". Even after two days of play, the final holes still produced looks of amazement and confusion as we watched putts challenge physics.

 

The event was two days of team match play: a two man scramble followed by four ball. We hit narrow window of good weather in a California winter where El Nino is packing a wet punch. Lots of great guys, including a few far travelers from Seattle and Virginia. Even managed pick up a nice muscle backed jigger from James Spence.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bella Woods]

Erik

 

Hope everybody had a good time, looks like its wet and cool

but at least you got it in........

[Maxwell]

A couple of pics of the 1932 Spalding Cushion Neck Robert T. Jones, Jr. driver.....

 

The facing is not quite done at this point - started with quite a strong loft (8 degrees) and

would like to get it to 10 1/2 degrees. Currently it is at 10 degrees but I have to maintain face

progression too - if it ends at 10 degrees I'm OK with it from a playability standpoint. Face bulge is

currently 9 inch radius - would like to get it to 10 inch. A few cosmetic touch ups still needed too.

 

I ended up using a Jacobus insert style because I did not want to mess with the horn - its very

solid on these clubs. Some scoring lines (I think 5) will go in but no face screws. On the view from

the top, the inside top and bottom of the face will have some stain "feathered in" so the face does not

look as rounded as it does now from address position. The epoxy at the top of the hosel is for

added strength and will be tapered to fit under the whipping.

 

I was going to sand out the dents in the head (they look worse in the picture than in person) and

stain it a reddish color - but now am going to just leave them as they are (I don't want to change

the head characteristics) and put a coat of Mahogany stain on it to keep it original looking.

 

Driver is 43 3/4" long, 387 grams total weight and D-0 swingweight without head finished and neck

whipping. Should finish about D-2 when done. CPM is 298.5 on frequency - hickory equivalent of S 500

in True Temper flex.

 

 

 

 

 

Bella Woods

I would imagine increasing loft or facing is allot of detailed work. I know just keeping original bulge and roll is. Question - when in your process of restoring a club like this, do you cut face lines using a thin blade saw or use a special rasp for putting fine grooves on wooden faces? Looking forward to seeing the finished club head.

Max

Canada

[Bella Woods]

Max

 

I cut the face lines right after the final adjustments are made to face bulge/roll/loft

(re: right after I have done the final "facing"). The driver in the pics got scoring lines

on it soon after the pics.

 

I use two different English dove tail saws to put lines on the hickories, one very fine and then

go over with the "regular" fine saw.

[Maxwell]

Max

 

I cut the face lines right after the final adjustments are made to face bulge/roll/loft

(re: right after I have done the final "facing"). The driver in the pics got scoring lines

on it soon after the pics.

 

I use two different English dove tail saws to put lines on the hickories, one very fine and then

go over with the "regular" fine saw.

 

Bella Woods - Would you share with me and others the type of English Dove Tail saw blade you use?

Are either of these two saws similar to what you would use?

 

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=48033&cat=1,42884

or

http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=48032&cat=1,42884

 

What are the saw tooth diameters on both of your English Dove Tail saws?

 

Max

Canada

[Bella Woods]

Max:

 

Both of my Dovetail saws just have round handles on them, 6 & 6 1/2 inch long

blades and are about 1 1/2" tall/wide.

 

They are made by Crown Hand Tools Ltd in Sheffield England, the thinner one

has about 0.02 blade thickness with very minimal "set", and the larger one has

about 0.035 blade thickness with a little larger "set". I don't remember the

official rake/set measurement from the company when I bought them.

[Maxwell]

Max:

 

Both of my Dovetail saws just have round handles on them, 6 & 6 1/2 inch long

blades and are about 1 1/2" tall/wide.

 

They are made by Crown Hand Tools Ltd in Sheffield England, the thinner one

has about 0.02 blade thickness with very minimal "set", and the larger one has

about 0.035 blade thickness with a little larger "set". I don't remember the

official rake/set measurement from the company when I bought them.

 

Thanks very much - Blair

[stixman]

This has been a detail which has baffled me over the years. I wound up cutting less than exact lines with a craft knife which didn't look very good.

Have either of you used a rasp as pictured? Does the rasp produce a face like the one pictured in the 'Slazenger One Piece' thread?

To my eye this would look more 'period authentic' than a line cut which I believe to be of a later epoch.

How is the Rasp used?

I have a good redundant rasp I used to use for sharpening the edges on my skis.

[Maxwell]

This has been a detail which has baffled me over the years. I wound up cutting less than exact lines with a craft knife which didn't look very good.

Have either of you used a rasp as pictured? Does the rasp produce a face like the one pictured in the 'Slazenger One Piece' thread?

To my eye this would look more 'period authentic' than a line cut which I believe to be of a later epoch.

How is the Rasp used?

I have a good redundant rasp I used to use for sharpening the edges on my skis.

 

Stixman - No I have not used the rasp in the picture nor have I hand cut face lines with a small diameter, so close together or shallow.I do have older steel shafted(Horton/Bristol) persimmon woods with small diameter, close together and shallow face lines. This area of persimmon woods 4R's is something I need to read up on. I have no experience at all with Hickory shaft golf clubs. Tad Moore and others would have more experience on hickory shaft club faces. Others, at this forum, may actually have this tool and have actually used it. They may choose to share their experience/knowledge with us - just like Bella Woods did with hand saws.

 

You wrote," To my eye this would look more 'period authentic' than a line cut which I believe to be of a later epoch". For me to comment on this statement first requires an understanding of how the rasp works and when it was used in the manufacturing process of the club. I just don't have that knowledge Stixman.

 

Donna and I enjoy reading and travel to our local St. Catharines Downtown Library every Wednesday evening after dinner. Last night, after we entered our library, I changed into a pair of new leather slippers. I guess I'm getting,"more comfortable" while I'm there. They were a Christmas gift from Donna. I'm going to start some investigating(from our library)into rasps and their use and try to find out what type of rasp this is called and how it was used. If I find accurate and reliable information, I'll try to keep those following this thread informed. We have several, " Flea Markets" in the Niagara Peninsula where we live. It would not surprise me to find such a tool sitting on a table for sale," for a couple of shekels". There are some very knowledgeable Hickory Shaft guys out there who just may have this tool and know how it was used. Their knowledge and input on this subject would be invaluable.

Max

Canada

[guisician]

This has been a detail which has baffled me over the years. I wound up cutting less than exact lines with a craft knife which didn't look very good.

Have either of you used a rasp as pictured? Does the rasp produce a face like the one pictured in the 'Slazenger One Piece' thread?

To my eye this would look more 'period authentic' than a line cut which I believe to be of a later epoch.

How is the Rasp used?

I have a good redundant rasp I used to use for sharpening the edges on my skis.

 

Stixman - No I have not used the rasp in the picture nor have I hand cut face lines with a small diameter, so close together or shallow.I do have older steel shafted(Horton/Bristol) persimmon woods with small diameter, close together and shallow face lines. This area of persimmon woods 4R's is something I need to read up on. I have no experience at all with Hickory shaft golf clubs. Tad Moore and others would have more experience on hickory shaft club faces. Others, at this forum, may actually have this tool and have actually used it. They may choose to share their experience/knowledge with us - just like Bella Woods did with hand saws.

 

You wrote," To my eye this would look more 'period authentic' than a line cut which I believe to be of a later epoch". For me to comment on this statement first requires an understanding of how the rasp works and when it was used in the manufacturing process of the club. I just don't have that knowledge Stixman.

 

Donna and I enjoy reading and travel to our local St. Catharines Downtown Library every Wednesday evening after dinner. Last night, after we entered our library, I changed into a pair of new leather slippers. I guess I'm getting,"more comfortable" while I'm there. They were a Christmas gift from Donna.(See attached picture) I'm going to start some investigating(from our library)into rasps and their use and try to find out what type of rasp this is called and how it was used. If I find accurate and reliable information, I'll try to keep those following this thread informed. We have several, " Flea Markets" in the Niagara Peninsula where we live. It would not surprise me to find such a tool sitting on a table for sale," for a couple of shekels". There are some very knowledgeable Hickory Shaft guys out there who just may have this tool and know how it was used. Their knowledge and input on this subject would be invaluable.

Max

Canada

 

Leather slippers (especially those with a plaid lining) have been proven to increase blood flow to the brain; enjoy the benefit!