Classic Blades

[CUTigers2011]

which should I go with?

I had a hard time deciding where to put this, but decided here was better than the equipment section with all the new club talk. And I saw one other thread very similar to this and it was posted in this section.

I had a modern mb set for a little while but decided swap them out for a players cb as my main iron set. I'd still like to have some blades and am looking at some of the classics, mainly because of price (sub $75) and because I think I'd enjoy having an old classic set around to play with from time to time. I've found two sets on my local craigslist that I'm interested in, Wilson Staff Fluid Feel and Hogan PC. They both seem to be in good shape, but I haven't had either in my hand yet.

How do these two compare as far as head shape, sole, toplines, weight, etc? From pictures it looks the toe on both is very square in the longer irons but the Wilson seem to look more rounded than the Hogan in toe of the short irons. Is this the case or am I just not seeing the pictures well? Thanks for the input!

[weeicemon]

Being a Hogan fan, I'm probably a bit biased. I've always thought that the Wilson Staff irons had a more square toe throughout the set than Hogan irons did. You don't mention which year the Staff's are but through 1975 the look from address was pretty much the same. The Hogan irons are more rounded and have a slightly thicker top line. While the PC irons are one of my least favorite, I would still favor them over a pre-1976 set of Wilson Staff's.

[CUTigers2011]

I'm no classic club aficionado so I really don't have much clue as to age, but I'm sure some here have an idea. Here's the picture of the Wilsons. I don't know if this picture of the Hogan is one from the actual set or just a random picture the guy found to put in the ad, I haven't even talked to the guy with the Hogans yet. I guess it's better than no picture at all even if it isn't from the actual set.

 

[XYB34A]

those are hogan PC's they were made from 1984 to 1987. my first set of new clubs that I bought for myself.

due to the design, PC's will have a lower flight than the Staff's will

both are excellent sets of clubs

[Iggypop]

These Wilsons are the first full set I had and they where great Irons with a nice profile, thin top line and a very square toe.
The Hogans are possibly more classic though?
For me the ultimate would be old Hogans or Mizunos.

[honketyhank]

I'm no classic club aficionado so I really don't have much clue as to age, but I'm sure some here have an idea. Here's the picture of the Wilsons. I don't know if this picture of the Hogan is one from the actual set or just a random picture the guy found to put in the ad, I haven't even talked to the guy with the Hogans yet. I guess it's better than no picture at all even if it isn't from the actual set.

 

 

The Wilson Staff irons look like mid to late 1980s. Good. But the Hogan PC's sure felt better on a good strike.

 

Just my opinion, but by that time the W/S irons were over the hill, the Hogans were still very good.

[dpark]

I am also a big Hogan fan but have played Wilson Fluid Feels as well.

The Hogans are more compact than most of the Wilson's I have played with. The Wilson's tend to have a sharper leading edge, so if you are a digger, expect some big beaver pelts.

The Apex PCs were a blade-on-blade design so they tend to have a lower ballflight than other models of that time like the Medallions or Redlines which had a low muscleback design that helped provide a higher trajectory.

Personally I would pick the Hogans even though the PCs were not the best irons Hogan made in that era, but you probably can't go wrong either way if you want a classic set of blades. Just make sure the PCs have the Apex 4 shafts in them. The Legend shafts weren't nearly as good.

In my current classic setup, I play Apex PCs WITH a Wilson Fluid Feel sand wedge

[freddiec]

I agree with DPark, both would be a good choice. I played the 84 Fluid feel model for a few years, then bought a really great used set of Hogan PCs in early 1987 and liked them more. I thought the PCs were a bit cleaner looking and they were more solid to me. At the time I was surrounded by a lot of Hogan players, so I was influenced a bit, but was glad I made the move. PCs are one of the best muscle back blades made in the 80s IMO>

[CUTigers2011]

[quote name='Iggypop' timestamp='1323388363' post='3913393']
These Wilsons are the first full set I had and they where great Irons with a nice profile, thin top line and a very square toe.
For me the ultimate would be old Hogans or Mizunos.
[/quote]

I do like the square toe look, so +1 for Wilsons. But there's other aspects that are more important to me than that.

[quote name='dpark' timestamp='1323389555' post='3913475']
The Wilson's tend to have a sharper leading edge, so if you are a digger, expect some big beaver pelts.
[/quote]

Hmm, sharper leading edge. I like that look also but it doesn't mix all that well with my swing. I'd probably be harvesting some trophy beaver pelts!

[quote name='dpark' timestamp='1323389555' post='3913475']
The Apex PCs were a blade-on-blade design so they tend to have a lower ballflight than other models of that time like the Medallions or Redlines which had a low muscleback design that helped provide a higher trajectory.
[/quote]

Not sure PCs would give me a preferred flight then. I like to hit a pretty high ball.

The Mizuno comment has got me thinking real hard now. I played a set of T-Zoids for a while and loved them! Maybe I'll have to put some inexpensive Mizunos in the mix (MP-33, MP-32 ???) even though they aren't true "classics" as far as age is concerned.

[dpark]

[quote name='abajoczky' timestamp='1323447741' post='3916357']
Not sure PCs would give me a preferred flight then. I like to hit a pretty high ball.

The Mizuno comment has got me thinking real hard now. I played a set of T-Zoids for a while and loved them! Maybe I'll have to put some inexpensive Mizunos in the mix (MP-33, MP-32 ???) even though they aren't true "classics" as far as age is concerned.
[/quote]

If you are going to go the Mizzy direction, you really should look at the MP-14s. They are a great blade (even if they are pretty much a copy of the Hogan Personals from 1953, but that is a different conversation...) with a classic headshape, lower muscle back and IIRC a more blunted leading edge.

[Iggypop]

[quote name='dpark' timestamp='1323449127' post='3916451']
[quote name='abajoczky' timestamp='1323447741' post='3916357']
Not sure PCs would give me a preferred flight then. I like to hit a pretty high ball.

The Mizuno comment has got me thinking real hard now. I played a set of T-Zoids for a while and loved them! Maybe I'll have to put some inexpensive Mizunos in the mix (MP-33, MP-32 ???) even though they aren't true "classics" as far as age is concerned.
[/quote]

If you are going to go the Mizzy direction, you really should look at the MP-14s. They are a great blade (even if they are pretty much a copy of the Hogan Personals from 1953, but that is a different conversation...) with a classic headshape, lower muscle back and IIRC a more blunted leading edge.
[/quote]

Plus 1 - the reason I hanker for the MP14/29's are the likeness to the Hogan Personals and the fact Tiger bagged them at the start of it all and they are the closest to Faldo's blank holy grail TN-87's.
The 14's & 29's differ in offset profiles and lofts with the 29's lofted stronger (closer to Today's lofts).
If I could find an affordable set of Hogan Personals in good nick - well closed deal!

[OldTom]

Hi, just adding my 10 cents worth.

I replaced my modern Wilson's with some Fluid Feels. Dropped my handicap 3 shots down to 7 in the first 2 months. I've been using the Fluid Feels for 12 months and love them.
For a bit of variety I bought some Hogan Apex Grinds a couple of months back.
Both sets are similiar, stiff shafts, same length.
But for whatever the reason, the Fluid Feels are so much easier to hit than the Hogans. From the day I bought the Fluid Feels I could hit them standing on my head, but the Hogans are so different I have to put a totally alien swing on them.
Maybe the Fluids just suit my swing.
My suggestion...... buy both sets. For around $75 you can't go wrong.

[tembolo1284]

I give the Hogan PCs a slight edge.

[Shallowface]

[quote name='abajoczky' timestamp='1323311011' post='3908441']
I had a hard time deciding where to put this, but decided here was better than the equipment section with all the new club talk. And I saw one other thread very similar to this and it was posted in this section.

I had a modern mb set for a little while but decided swap them out for a players cb as my main iron set. I'd still like to have some blades and am looking at some of the classics, mainly because of price (sub $75) and because I think I'd enjoy having an old classic set around to play with from time to time. I've found two sets on my local craigslist that I'm interested in, Wilson Staff Fluid Feel and Hogan PC. They both seem to be in good shape, but I haven't had either in my hand yet.

How do these two compare as far as head shape, sole, toplines, weight, etc? From pictures it looks the toe on both is very square in the longer irons but the Wilson seem to look more rounded than the Hogan in toe of the short irons. Is this the case or am I just not seeing the pictures well? Thanks for the input!
[/quote]

I remember when the PCs came out. The story was a lot of Hogan Staff club pros jumped ship because they were so difficult to hit. A lot of them went over to Ping because the Eye2 was so much easier to hit for both them and their membership.

Because of the weight distribution on the back of the club, the Staff irons tend to be easier to hit because the sweet spot is lower and not so far in the heel. This particular set of Staffs has a fairly narrow sole, and I prefer the wider sole of the 84-85 model (or the 67s, 69s, 71s, and 73s).

I know the Hogan clubs have a certain mystique because of the man associated with them, but I've always thought they were overrated, especially when it came to quality. The only ones that I ever really liked were the Spalding/Callaway versions.

[CUTigers2011]

Rather than start another thread I figured I would just revive this one and throw out another couple options for y'all to pitch in on. I've been dragging my feet on these and the Fluid Feels are gone. But I came across another set of PCs that includes a Hogan staff bag, umbrella, and misc. woods.

 

Can you classics experts also weigh in on these two Macgregor sets as well?

 

Macgregor VIPs 2-10

 

Macgregor Tourney 2-10

I'm still waiting on close up pictures to confirm but I believe this is the model. I haven't been able to find much at all on these.

My link

 

Thanks again!

[honketyhank]

Rather than start another thread I figured I would just revive this one and throw out another couple options for y'all to pitch in on. I've been dragging my feet on these and the Fluid Feels are gone. But I came across another set of PCs that includes a Hogan staff bag, umbrella, and misc. woods.

 

Can you classics experts also weigh in on these two Macgregor sets as well?

 

Macgregor VIPs 2-10

 

Macgregor Tourney 2-10

I'm still waiting on close up pictures to confirm but I believe this is the model. I haven't been able to find much at all on these.

My link

 

Thanks again!

Kind of hard to tell from the photo exactly which year the VIPs are from, but they are quality blades - forged, nice feel. They would probably rank with the PC's and Wilson Staff's mentioned earlier.

 

The Tourneys are late 1970s castings. In my collection of Macgregor Tourneys, I didn't even bother to pick up this model. I don't know how it would play, but it looks like it would not feel very nice on a well struck shot and it might feel like an electric shock on a mis-hit. In my opinion, this Tourney model was a mistake. The 1970's, in general, were not kind to the Tourney name.

[CUTigers2011]

Thanks Hank. Good info there on the Tourneys. I'm going to pass on those.

 

Unfortunately, it looks like the guy with the PCs has turned out to be a total *poop* head seller so I won't be spending any money with him.

 

In continuation of derailing my own thread by including clubs to compare that weren't in the title I have one more to add. (and I've changed the subtitle so I guess technically it's not derailed it anymore)

 

I read in some other threads about manufacturers selling tour vs retail (in pro shops vs department stores) back then. Were the retail models not made as well and similar to like the box sets that you can get in the big box stores today?

 

Once again I've been struggling to find info on another set that I've found. Does anybody have info on this particular set of Macs? Looks like the markings are the Nicklaus signature (obviously), TSL, and I can't clearly make out the marking on the toe. Looks kind of like a 271, but these don't look anything like Mac 271 sets that I've found. And I haven't found anything at all on Mac Majestic woods. They look like they're in good shape to me. I have face pictures and they look good as well.

Just throwing in this picture cause they're included with the irons

 

EDIT: For some reason the iron picture came up pretty small. The one emailed to me in much larger. I'll try to get a bigger picture of it

 

[honketyhank]

The closest looking irons I can find in Kaplan to those are some late Tommy Armour MacGregor irons from 1966: model 234 "Iron Master". Obviously not the same, but MacGregor had many models with the same basic forging (not these forgings), spanning many years. The funny thing is that if I did not see the MacGregor and Nicklaus stampings, I could be fooled into thinking they might be Wilson Staffs from the late 1950s. The TA Iron Masters of 1966 are given very little play in the catalogs reproduced by Kaplan -- which leads me to believe they were probably 2nd or 3rd line clubs. At that time TA's name was still on some top line clubs.

My further guess would be that the clubs you show are probably from the very beginning of Jack Nicklaus' participation as a staff player for MacGregor. Within a few years his name was on the MacGregor VIP line and TA's name was nowhere to be found.

So my conjecture is that these are clubs whose design was probably considered to be sound but dated by MacGregor and they put their new staff player's name on them. He was maybe not yet in a position to say "hey, wait a minute, those are not what I would choose." He would soon be in a position to be the tail wagging the dog and he got his name put onto some quality VIPs, etc. But my guess is that these are some interesting relics of Jack's early association with MacGregor.

Bottom line: Interesting collectors' value for those looking for the Nicklaus name on the club, but I would sure want to try them out if I intended to use them on the course. And I could be dead wrong.

edit:

look at the length of the hosels on those irons. that alone leads to a guess of earlier rather than later in Jack's career.

[rex235]

[quote name='dpark' timestamp='1323389555' post='3913475']
I am also a big Hogan fan but have played Wilson Fluid Feels as well.

The Hogans are more compact than most of the Wilson's I have played with. The Wilson's tend to have a sharper leading edge, so if you are a digger, expect some big beaver pelts.

The Apex PCs were a blade-on-blade design so they tend to have a lower ballflight than other models of that time like the Medallions or Redlines which had a low muscleback design that helped provide a higher trajectory.

Personally I would pick the Hogans even though the PCs were not the best irons Hogan made in that era, but you probably can't go wrong either way if you want a classic set of blades. Just make sure the PCs have the Apex 4 shafts in them. The Legend shafts weren't nearly as good.

In my current classic setup, I play Apex PCs WITH a Wilson Fluid Feel sand wedge
[/quote]

Dpark-

And yours is not just any Wilson Staff "Fluid Feel" Sand Wedge....

It's the 1972 Wilson Staff "Buttonback" Dynapower SW... after the Bullet Backs, and before the "Adjusta Backs"

In nearly 20 years of Wilson Staff Fluid Feel Sand Wedges, it's the [i][b][u]ONLY[/u][/b] model made without the [b]"Dynapower"[/b][/i] stamp...

All the other Wilson Staff Fluid Feel Dynapower Sand Wedge models have it...from 1957 to 1975.

Not your model year.

It's a "stealth" collectible.

Great Wedge.

[CUTigers2011]

Thanks again hank! I did notice that these have some lonnnnng hosels on them. I also notice (from the original picture that's larger) that the grips look great and all of the shaft labels are there and don't really appear to be peeling.

I definitely don't plan on playing with these, that's what I have MP 57s and R9 woods for. I just think it would be cool to have and to break them out for a round once a year or so.

Heck for $40 I bet I could unload them here if I end up wanting to get rid of them and cover my expenses.

[farmer]

Abajoczy, those Macs are dept store clubs. They will be a distinct step down in quality from the Mac pro-line clubs of the same time. If you could find some, Wilson X31's were good irons and had some forgiveness. My experience back in the day was that Hogan's were hard to hit, even for their time.

[super20dan]

i have both vintage staff and hogans. the hogans are hands down better clubs.

[Jack Pearsall]

Jack P used Hogan PCs for numerous years during his prodigious phase.
JP was prodigious about everything during those years.