Vokey tour issue or not?

[chiphunt]

On Ebay I happened across a listing for a tour issue SM4. Well the seller has great feedback rating with almost 300 total feedback. So I went ahead and ordered it. The head is wrapped in plastic and the club looks legit. The only problem I have is there is nothing about the club to indicate tour issue. There is a 5 digit computer etched serial number on the hosel and the other stamps, paint fill, etc is standard. Basically it looks like I got a custom ordered SM4 with a project X shaft. I emailed the seller and told him this looks like a legit Vokey that was custom ordered, but nothing about indicates it's tour issued. I asked if he could tell me anything about the wedge that would indicate it is a tour issue. His response was:

 

"This wedge was a custom order through the tour department...The player specifically requested for his initials not to be stamped on the back, but the general public cannot get ahold of this particular club."

What do you think?

[Johnny]

Tour Issue is one of the most over used phrases on ebay...

[muxi87]

Pics...

[Illest]

Wouldn't you be able to find out using the serial #?

[chiphunt]

[quote name='muxi87' timestamp='1329706259' post='4328311']
Pics...
[/quote]

Here is the completed listing:

[url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Titleist-Vokey-Tour-Issue-Spin-Milled-2012-SM4-Wedge-60-07-w-Project-X-6-0-/300659900959?pt=Golf_Clubs&hash=item4600ba021f"]http://www.ebay.com/...=item4600ba021f[/url]

From what I have learned, tour issue Vokeys either have no serial or the deep hand stamped black serial numbers. The one I received has a 5 digit computer etched (they are dots) on the hosel. Please don't be condescending because I wanted to purchas a tour issue Vokey. I have bought one tour issue product and it was a shaft. I've had a really good experience with it, so I thought I would try another product. Thanks for any help.

[practicetee]

Retail; it would't come sealed in plastic nor would they need a new hologram sticker on it if it were built for the tour. Its legit, just nothing special.

[Johnny]

wedge works comes to mind... still cheaper then ordering from them... but maybe not what you expected.

[chiphunt]

Thanks practicetee, that's exactly what I suspected.

[chiphunt]

Yeah Johnny, like I said I know the club is a legit custom ordered Vokey. The problem I have with it is a seller advertising it as tour issue when clearly it is not. This practice only hurts other sellers that are selling legitimate tour issue products. I'm not going to get into a debate about whether I should even buy tour issue products or not. Clearly it is just a personal choice. I just had a great experience with the one tour issue product I purchased and this was going for such a reasonable price I thought I would try it out. I sell quite a bit on Ebay and don't like someone just flat out lying about what they are selling.

[muxi87]

I see no reason it should've been advertised as tour issue.

[Jc0]

Check the serial number and see if its XXTXX. I actually found two tour serial wedges at an edwin watts once.

[chiphunt]

Yeah JC, I looked for that as well, but no T in the serial number. Like I said I emailed the seller and asked him for some indication that the club was tour issue and basically his response was nothing more than take my word for it. I have emailed him back asking what he wants to do to resolve the situation. I told him clearly this is just a basic custom ordered SM4 with an upgraded shaft option. I stated what practicetee stated and that is tour issue Vokeys wouldn't have the authetic label (no need), the head wouldn't be wrapped in plastic, and the serial number wouldn't be computer etched. This isn't a bad product for $130 total with shipping, but is not what I thought I was buying.

[square]

It is a brand new club with upgraded shaft , for correct retail price.
You don't have any reasonable claim against the seller.
Tour issue? That is a marketing expression, especially for a wedge. Actually there are no "Tour issue" produced clubs of any kind. These heads are all made in China on the same assembly line. "Tour issue" just menas the brand took some heads and put them in the inventory of the mobile truck which visits Tour stop driving ranges.
I suggest leaving the seller alone and enjoy playing your new wedge.

[quote name='chiphunt' timestamp='1329712457' post='4329191']
Yeah JC, I looked for that as well, but no T in the serial number. Like I said I emailed the seller and asked him for some indication that the club was tour issue and basically his response was nothing more than take my word for it. I have emailed him back asking what he wants to do to resolve the situation. I told him clearly this is just a basic custom ordered SM4 with an upgraded shaft option. I stated what practicetee stated and that is tour issue Vokeys wouldn't have the authetic label (no need), the head wouldn't be wrapped in plastic, and the serial number wouldn't be computer etched. This isn't a bad product for $130 total with shipping, but is not what I thought I was buying.
[/quote]

[SwingMan]

Next time, find a good club fitter.

Screw tour issue on ebay or most sites.

Some good club fitters have tour clubs - try them and get fit.

[chiphunt]

OK, so it's a market expression? Sounds to me like you sell tour issue clubs that aren't tour issued. What do I make of this link? http://www.vokey.com/wedgeworks/archive.aspx

This clearly states: Tour Issue wedges come directly from the [b]Tour Department[/b] and are hand-polished and [b]hand-finished by Bob's tour grinders[/b]. Featuring a raw unplated finish, these wedges will rust over time. All models have pre-2010 Spin Milled grooves. This is the final opportunity to purchase pre-2010 Spin Milled grooves through WedgeWorks. Delivery to U.S. addresses only.

Obviously this isn't an SM4, but when I see "tour issue" this is what I expect. I expect a head that comes from the tour department and not a mass produced wedge. I do not expect to receive a stock head with an upgraded shaft. Tour issue is not merely a marketing expression as you claim. I realize it's a fair price for the club, but this is not what I thought I was buying. I'm not going to leave negative feedback or anything, but to say I have no recourse is ridiculous.


[quote name='square' timestamp='1329713357' post='4329285']
It is a brand new club with upgraded shaft , for correct retail price.
You don't have any reasonable claim against the seller.
Tour issue? That is a marketing expression, especially for a wedge. Actually there are no "Tour issue" produced clubs of any kind. These heads are all made in China on the same assembly line. "Tour issue" just menas the brand took some heads and put them in the inventory of the mobile truck which visits Tour stop driving ranges.
I suggest leaving the seller alone and enjoy playing your new wedge.

[quote name='chiphunt' timestamp='1329712457' post='4329191']
Yeah JC, I looked for that as well, but no T in the serial number. Like I said I emailed the seller and asked him for some indication that the club was tour issue and basically his response was nothing more than take my word for it. I have emailed him back asking what he wants to do to resolve the situation. I told him clearly this is just a basic custom ordered SM4 with an upgraded shaft option. I stated what practicetee stated and that is tour issue Vokeys wouldn't have the authetic label (no need), the head wouldn't be wrapped in plastic, and the serial number wouldn't be computer etched. This isn't a bad product for $130 total with shipping, but is not what I thought I was buying.
[/quote]
[/quote]

[square]

As far as I know Titleist makes all their Vokey wedges at the same wedge/iron casting foundry, and all their metal woods at the same metal wood casting foundry.
Titleist takes some of the heads and puts them in their component inventory for future assembly for their Tour player staff. Most of those heads stay in Carlsbad, and the mobil trucks/vans Titleist have at Tour stop driving ranges routinely restock their cupboards from the Carlsbad inventory.
In the end it's all still the same designed and produced heads from the same foundries producing the consumer retail Titleist inventory. The metal is the same, head shape, head weights etc... are all the same.
ebay has hundreds of listings for "Tour this" or "Tour that", but that's just an ebay seller looking for a sales angle.And Titleist-Vokey is following Cameron's lead, establishing "Wedgeworks", as a marketing angle to sell limited edition stuff. The link you provide, referring to "pre-2010 spin milled" sounds to me like old non-conforming groove inventory which Titleist is selling off because Tour players can no longer use those grooves.

[quote name='chiphunt' timestamp='1329748934' post='4331047']
OK, so it's a market expression? Sounds to me like you sell tour issue clubs that aren't tour issued. What do I make of this link? http://www.vokey.com/wedgeworks/archive.aspx

This clearly states: Tour Issue wedges come directly from the [b]Tour Department[/b] and are hand-polished and [b]hand-finished by Bob's tour grinders[/b]. Featuring a raw unplated finish, these wedges will rust over time. All models have pre-2010 Spin Milled grooves. This is the final opportunity to purchase pre-2010 Spin Milled grooves through WedgeWorks. Delivery to U.S. addresses only.

Obviously this isn't an SM4, but when I see "tour issue" this is what I expect. I expect a head that comes from the tour department and not a mass produced wedge. I do not expect to receive a stock head with an upgraded shaft. Tour issue is not merely a marketing expression as you claim. I realize it's a fair price for the club, but this is not what I thought I was buying. I'm not going to leave negative feedback or anything, but to say I have no recourse is ridiculous.


[/quote]

[jaskanski]

[quote name='chiphunt' timestamp='1329705490' post='4328189']
On Ebay I happened across a listing for a tour issue SM4. Well the seller has great feedback rating with almost 300 total feedback. So I went ahead and ordered it. The head is wrapped in plastic and the club looks legit. The only problem I have is there is nothing about the club to indicate tour issue. There is a 5 digit computer etched serial number on the hosel and the other stamps, paint fill, etc is standard. Basically it looks like I got a custom ordered SM4 with a project X shaft. I emailed the seller and told him this looks like a legit Vokey that was custom ordered, but nothing about indicates it's tour issued. I asked if he could tell me anything about the wedge that would indicate it is a tour issue. His response was:

[size="2"]"This wedge was a custom order through the tour department...The player specifically requested for his initials not to be stamped on the back, but the general public cannot get ahold of this particular club."
[/size]
What do you think?
[/quote]

"Tour Issued" is a much maligned and misused term for a generic type of club or piece of equipment. Unless you know the exact source and credibility of your item, any description would have to taken with a pinch of salt.
As with anything you buy on Ebay - do your homework. Get to know you product, ask plenty of questions of the seller, get them to provide proof or provenance of authenticity. Do they guarantee genuine? Do they offer a refund if not satisfied? These simple questions will happily be answered by a genuine seller of a genuine product who wants to have a happy customer. The same applies to any item you care to buy. Do you think a vase advertised as "Ming Dynasty" is 100% genuine without checking? Would you buy a Rolex without the correct paperwork and inspection from a professional jeweller?
The same applies to genuine Tour Issued equipment. The problem with many sellers is that they have no way (or need) to prove anything to support their claims. If they can however, the price is likely to increase to suit it's provenance. A wedge actually played on tour by player X is likely to be worth a lot more than any brand new wedge in shrink wrap, simply because it has history and credibility attached to it.
If all the seller can come up with is "Yah, it's tour issue because I say so", then it's just not worth risking buying it - any more than it's worth buying the Ming Dynasty vase with no proof behind it.
Use your brain as well as your eyes and ears to avoid disappointment - if it costs the same and looks the same as a retail SM4 - it's probably because it IS a retail SM4. Serials, as has proven in the past too many times with Titleist equipment, are totally meaningless in proving anything. Unless Bob himself hands you the wedge, expect to be unimpressed with any wedge you buy without doing the groundwork on it's provenance first. If you can't get a definitive answer, avoid it. It's not like we're down to the last 10 wedges in the world.