Mclean rips infomercial A.J.

[tburke7]

http://www.jimmclean.com/usa/magic-methods-article.html

[samm980]

A.J. has said somethings about golf instruction that were very uncalled for. He really has been on the attack mode for awhile and I guess Jim finally got fed up with it.

[4rheel]

He didn't seemed too pleased with Kostis, either.

[tbowles411]

Geezo! His panties are in a wad! I'm not a McLean guy, but he's got lots of points and an incredible amount of cred!

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

Wow, pretty inflammatory. Whether or not McLean is right, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lawsuit come out of this. You can't accuse someone of plagary and fraud, and not expect to get sued - even if it's true.

[Putt4doh]

Here's a great thread on the very topic of AJ Bonar:

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?sh...25&hl=Bonar

 

 

It's nice to see that Jim McClean concurs with the membership of GolfWRX...it just never ceases to amaze me how well informed the membership here is. Quite impressive.

[fats]

Looks like Jim McLean should have a long sit down with Dr. Phil. :) rotflmao

[Charlie_Foxtrot]

Looks like Jim McLean should have a long sit down with Dr. Phil. :) rotflmao

 

 

So he can rip on him too ?

[jeffy]

Wow, pretty inflammatory. Whether or not McLean is right, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lawsuit come out of this. You can't accuse someone of plagary and fraud, and not expect to get sued - even if it's true.

 

 

AJ's the one who should be worrying about lawsuits...

[hayam]

Well. Jim Mclean did critisized Hank Haney when he started coaching Tiger.

 

Did any of his students win 5 consecutive times ?

Did Ian Baker turn his game around?

Thus its a little silly to think there is only " limited" methods to do things best or to get the most power.

 

Not to mention in Hogan's book, he talks about the hands at impact, Ernie talking about closing his hands at impact in his classic book. Vijay talking about closing the clubface at impact at certain articles. And they are all TOP golfer at one point. SO is it possible that the role of hands is misled by improper modern instructions? Lets take a minute to think about it.

 

I personally feel I should take this attack as a pinch of salt. And I realised one thing about all likewise "promise" of easy and better golf. When its too good to be true, it probably is .

[cmarkmyers]

Well I think Jim McLean is now writing for Golf Digest, which of course is the biggest rival to Golf Magazine. Someone correct me if I am wrong. And although I think he is more boring to listen to than my 8th grade history teacher he does make some good points.

 

Anytime anyone comes across like Bonar you have to be a bit of a skeptic. These guys who are first and foremost marketers should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

But like hayam and titleistmax said, there is some value in Bonars teaching (for some people) and McLean does acknowledge this.

[hayam]

This forum was created to help golfers of all skill levels to improve their game. As this forum is named, it is an Academy with Instructors that will come from different schools of thought. One is not necessarily better than the other nor will one method fit all. We will allow thoughtful and spirited discussions but, no personal attacks. This is an opportunity for everyone to bring their thoughts and issues to the range without fear of being ridiculed.

 

 

There is more than one way to swing a club, You can use your hands, arms, shoulder , body, ARMPITS, hips and legs to power a swing. Name it you have it. In tour everyweek. most way had won at least once. If u search the internet there is at least a 100's school of thoughts. In doubt we can ask Jim Furyk how he did it ...

 

but to the best of my knowledge, AJ bonar is not wrong nor misinformed. But maybe misunderstood due to too much informations in the internet and his turn people off guerilla technique.

 

The ball doesn't lie, The sound of the ball compressing in the air doesnt lie, The divot doesn't lie.

[Points]

Bonar is misinformed without question. He stated that two teachers teach a square to square method which is incorrect. He slams Search for the Perfect Swing for incorrect information. He goes on to steal an idea which is clearly stated in this book in regards to the screw driver analogy. When you print incorrect information with your name beside it, you clearly fall into the category of being misinformed.

 

As far as what AJ teaches, opening the face on the backswing and slaming is shut on the downswing cannot be considered a new idea. Closing the clubface is a pretty common idea within the golfing community.

 

If you work off the idea that there are lots of different ways to swing the golf club, I find it hard to believe that there is some type of "magic move." Playing good golf takes time. For the higher hdcp, there are certain moves which will have a huge impact on their improvement. But in the end, improving ones game requires time and effort. To paraphrase Claude Harmon....Playing good golf is a challenge, playing great golf is very difficult, playing championship golf is for a select few.

[hayam]

Ooops , I didnt know bonar said such things.

 

I only read about the technique from here and some other swing forum... -.- ok . sorry for being misinformed :p . forgive me but i ceased reading any golf magazines for quite some time.

[Asleep]

...AJ Bonar is a snake oil salesman, a plagiarizer, a con artist, but also “a world class marketing expert!” After all a million suckers have apparently purchased his video tape. A great infomercial is obviously just too tantalizing for many viewers to pass up. We would all love a “Secret!” something quick and easy to save our golf. That is what Bonar and others like him sell...

 

MacLean needs to stop holding back and say what he really feels... :(

[press]

Intresting article, Mclean has a short fuse. About two years ago the Golf Channel had 4 or 5 of the top teachers on, maybe some of you saw it. Mclean, Flick, Harmon and a few others, I cant recall, anyway Mclean said that the amateurs he sees in golf today are far to active with their hands and arms and need to pay more attention to the big muscles, which he very well knows Flick teaches hands and arms. Immediatly Flick says that the amateurs he sees today have far to much body in the swing and need to pay more attention to hands and arms. They immediatly went to commerical and when they returned everyone was on a different subject. AJ is on the Flick side of teaching hands and arms body followes. Many people swing like this and are good players but the swing revolves around timing and tempo, some days you will be off and your scores may suffer. Body oriented swing has less emphasis on fast twitch muscles of the hands and arms but if your body gets too active your scores may suffer. Whos right, well if your hands are to active and you hook a lot, Mclean will help and if your body is too active and get way in front of the ball and slice, Flict will help. Well whos right? Oh by the way, there are many more compairsons that can be made, single and two plane swings etc. etc. etc.

[golfer456dad]

Thanks for the link to McLean's whining article. I will state up front that I am biased because I know AJ personally. He is a one of the nicest guys you will ever meet. I have witnessed AJ help golfers of all ability. He has been teaching "the secret" for many, many years but only recently via the infomercial did he take it to the masses. The one main difference I see between AJ and most teachers is that AJ is perfectly happy to help you in one lesson or maybe one day of his school (4 hours with 4 students). McLean and very frankly most teachers I have spent time with will give you little bits of info and have you beat range balls, or watch them hit balls, for the duration of the lesson and then schedule you for "a series of lessons at a discounted price" or just string you along with lesson after lesson. These little bits of info can get quite costly but we all know that is the best way for the teachers to put money in their pocket. McLean even admits that his method of teaching is in segments. Gotta get 'em to keep comin' back!! Also I have seen McLean's schools advertised all over the country so I wonder how much time he actually spends with the students versus his "qualified" instructors. AJ has one school and is hands on.

All right, my rant is over. AJ has joined up with a great marketing guy who has put lots of money in both of their pockets, but his teaching method isn't new, he has been doing it for a long time - I have known him since 1990 and he was teaching it then. He is a genuinely nice guy.

[jeffy]

 

He is a genuinely nice guy.

 

 

 

 

Genuinely nice guys do not use a highly touted cover article in a leading golf magazine to trash other professionals or disparage researchers for errors that they didn't make. I'd be happy to see McLean, Flick, Leadbetter, Cochran and Stubbs all sue his a**.

[Points]

Having never seen AJ teach, I cannot speak to his ability to help a student or his character. I only can go off of what he printed in a major publication which was a large amount of incorrect information.

As far as McLean is concerned, there are several incorrect statements which need to be cleared up. Only one of his golf schools even offers package lessons. Jim's locations offer golf schools, half day training sessions, and individual one hour lessons. That certainly does not appear to be the "gotta keep em coming back" Seems to me there is a large emphasis placed on getting the player better in the time you are with an instructor.

In terms of the segmented teaching system or 8 step swing as Jim calls it, this a merely a way to look at video and a student's swing. All teachers need a way to process information. If they don't every lesson is random and their consistency as a teacher is poor at best.

By no means can one say that AJ is on to something revolutionary. I have talked to a lot of older teachers who have taught this way for a long time. Read older books and you will see his move described. Open the face up and slam it shut for distance is a way to swing the golf club. unfortunately,it is not THE MAGIC MOVE.

If AJ is on the Flick side of teaching, why slam Flick in his article? As far as the hands are concerned, Jim states in his piece that it is something he teaches to higher hdcp players. It is a very common teaching idea. However, it cannot be a teachers sole teaching idea.

Hope this helps to clear up some misconceptions.

[jdhonger]

As an instructor, I have not always agreed with McLean, but I am on his side here. I have seen the AJ DVD as well as watched him in person. It is like your uncle giving you golf tips: said with care and concern to you, but without merit. I have watched McLean give lessons, and somethings people will like, and others they will not like. But AJ will give you info that will work today, and destroy you in 2 weeks time.

 

One thing that I can tell you is that I also saw Flick give a teaching seminar 2 years ago. He said that, while the average golfer/mid-to-high handicapper should be taught to be more sensitive with the hands, the top amateurs and pros focus on the body controlling the swing. He does not work with Lehman so much on hands/arms as much as body in control. Likewise, when he worked with Phillip Francis as a young junior, all the instruction was on hands and arms sensitivity. Now, as a young man, he and Francis work on getting the body to control the swing. Short game becomes more reliant on sensitivity with the hands.

[duker51]

I attended his ½ day school last week while on vacation. I read AJ’s article and wanted to hear more. I have good days and bad with my full swing and figured AJ’s school would be worth a try. I’m a 12 hdcp due to a good short game. I found AJ insightful and entertaining. His explanations and coaching were first rate. The concepts on “his” version of the swing were easy to understand.

 

I experienced some of the hooking you guys have mentioned. AJ had me make one adjustment (keeping my left shoulder in), and I began to cream the ball. Overall, this swing worked quite well for me, including the driver. What I like most about the technique, is the simplicity of it. There is no talk of clearing the hips or keeping the head still. It’s all about applying the tool to the back of the ball while hitting down on it, with an aggressive turn of the forearms/wrists. I picked up the instruction quickly.

 

We were hitting off of mats, so I want to work with it on grass to see if my results will be as good.

 

I’m glad I took the lesson; it was a ton of fun well worth the money. It is winter where I live so it will be tough to work on this for a few months. I’ll report back once I’ve put the work in and taken my swing to the course.

[MacBLT]

Wow!

 

I am not surprised to see him go off on AJ as a form of retaliation for previous comments or whatever it was that happened between them.

 

But the comment about the 20 Handicapper winning the club championship: "But, can you imagine a club where a 20 handicapper wins the club championship? This has to be the worst playing membership in the world." was completely unexpected.

 

I still can't believe the posted this on his website; after all he is suppossed to be in the business of helping the hacking masses not attacking them...

[DanZ]

But the comment about the 20 Handicapper winning the club championship: "But, can you imagine a club where a 20 handicapper wins the club championship? This has to be the worst playing membership in the world." was completely unexpected.

 

I too am confused by this part. Isn't the whole idea of the handicap system that anyone can win just by having a better day than their usual score?

[Points]

I don't think that it is an attack on the 20 hdcp of the world. Most Club Championships are determined either by medal play or match play. Typically, there are no strokes given. If at the end of the competition the 20 hdcp wins, the field was very weak. The twenty hdcp can have the occasional good round but generally will not have two to three consecutive low rounds in the mid to low seventies. If they do, you might want to check the number of rounds which they are actually posting.

[hoganfan924]

AJ is certainly a very rich Bonar!! (sorry, couldn't help myself)

 

I was curious and borrowed his tapes a few years ago from a co-worker. They were full of card tricks, AJ playing silly tunes on his guitar, swinging a golf club with a baseball bat for a clubhead and offering very little in the way of real instuction. Completely worthless snake oil IMHO. While I'm no Mclean fan, I've got to side with him here!

 

AJ:

World class swing coach? Not even close

Marketing genius? Perhaps

Rich? Probably