It's official: USGA, R&A propose anchor ban

[KYMAR]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1354304985' post='6001287']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1354302218' post='6001053']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1354296798' post='6000493']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1354294321' post='6000275']
It's a little surprising to see so many anchorers come out and admit the reason they defend it's use is because of the yips. T[i]hat admission [/i]completely backs up the premise that an anchored stroke doesn't necessarily give player a an advantage over player b. It gives them an advantage over their own lack of ability. Sound harsh? I guess it might, though it's not really meant that way. But there are numerous problems with my game, with everyones game, that could probably be helped immensely by either enacting or removing rules from the game. The psychological battle is part of the game. Golf is the only game that can be played by yourself and still feel like you are really competing, We compete against old man par, our best ever score, X of consecutive bogey free holes and against our limitations and abilities. No one can give me a good reason why a psychological issue should be given more weight than a physical one when it comes to reasons why we don't score as well as we would like. I have experienced the yips, I am pretty sure everyone has. But i didn't just give into it, surrender and start with the cry's into the night "I [i]can't[/i] putt with a standard length putter!" Of course you can, just perhaps not as effectively as you would like when you use the leverage of your body to counteract a natural and normal amount of psychological pressure that golf gives. It is part of the game and it should remain that way.
[/quote]
While I can see where you are coming from, it is clear to me that you have never had to face the dilemma of a physical or psychological impairment that could affect your game...aside from those that afflict all of us to some extent. If you had, I'd be surprised if I heard this same logic from you. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe your purism would force you to leave the game, as physical and psychological ills may force others to do the same. A shame, in either case, really, don't you agree?.
As I said to another, May you always stay healthy out there, may you never have to be forced to adopt a stupid looking method in order to stay in the game.
[/quote]

Purist? I am not sure about that. Though i do find it strange that the pro anchoring set have taken to making that a dirty word. Like if i or anyone else says something like "I am a golf purist" it's on par with "I am a racist" or "Women should be in the kitchen!" It's not. And I am not. And therefore I am living proof (I know how big you guys are on proof, or at least "tending toward") That it doesn't take what is considered to be a true purist to object to the notion that nerves, or twitchness or a shaky hand should be allowed to be compensated for by stabilizing a club against yourself. it is about an equal playing field right? And as I think of it, could we possibly have a twitchier masters champion? That is called pressure and it's part of the game.
I am somewhat disappointed by your poorly thought out assumptions ngb and had assumed that you had read my posts on the issue. Now it's fair to think you missed some but even in the one you quoted, i stated that I have at times struggled with the yips. Also, I have a mild form of a serious back disease that makes putting, specifically putting practice for any real period of time, very painful and difficult. I am lucky because most sufferers of this disease are precluded for many activities i can participate in. And if it ever gets to the point that the act of putting during play becomes too painful I will be thankful that the USGA has kept the long putter legal and made the effort to clearly show what a legal, non anchored putting stroke looks like.
[/quote]
I had no idea that you have played with pain or had the yips. If I had, I would have expected a more liberal attitude I guess, from you, then. Ahh....you are a puzzlement.
I believe that the term purist is tossed out in a sarcastic manner, at least in this argument. It seems that anyone who argues tradition, spirit, convention, yet embraces the changes that suit him, gets the label purist. I am guilty of both being this kind of purist ( at times) and of using the word to describe pro banners, such as yourself. ( I take it that you are renegeing on last nights giddy statement?) Anyway don't take it to heart, it's not like you are a fanboy or a hater. Those two words get my Irish blood really boiling.
and finally for the record, I am not shouting at you........I don't want others to get the wrong idea....
[/quote]

Yes well that's the thing about this that at least for me being a Pro-banner is the disconnect in conversing with those in favor of keeping them legal. I get totally the desire for golf to be as conquerable as it ever will be. It has always for me been a matter that the USGA just said it was for them. I have never felt comfortable with the idea that i could cut my putts down by 2 or 3 a round with an anchored putter, like it was a fair measure of my ability. Sort of like bowling competitively with those side bumpers up. I believe in golf the mental fortitude and overcoming things (i have had driver yips BAD for a full season not all that many moons ago) like the yips or psychological issues is at least half the battle. It seems to me that on some level, all bad swings made with a 5 iron, for anyone who has ever made a good swing with one, was an inability to mentally accomplish the task at that moment and it resulted in a poor result. Why should putting be any different? To me, overcoming those emotional or psychological obstacles by stabilizing a putter against a stationary object, yourself, takes away from the accomplishment because it's an attempt to merely mask a deficiency.

I know it's a different mindset, and I am not attempting to accuse anchored users of anything, but at least it explains why I am against them, even though i am, or at least was, a perfect candidate to try one. This is why i think the ruling they made was right on the money. Keep the equipment legal, I may need it, and ban anchoring the club to retain the element of skill, both mental and physical, in all shots made on the course.

[nbg352]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1354307054' post='6001453']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1354304985' post='6001287']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1354302218' post='6001053']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1354296798' post='6000493']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1354294321' post='6000275']
It's a little surprising to see so many anchorers come out and admit the reason they defend it's use is because of the yips. T[i]hat admission [/i]completely backs up the premise that an anchored stroke doesn't necessarily give player a an advantage over player b. It gives them an advantage over their own lack of ability. Sound harsh? I guess it might, though it's not really meant that way. But there are numerous problems with my game, with everyones game, that could probably be helped immensely by either enacting or removing rules from the game. The psychological battle is part of the game. Golf is the only game that can be played by yourself and still feel like you are really competing, We compete against old man par, our best ever score, X of consecutive bogey free holes and against our limitations and abilities. No one can give me a good reason why a psychological issue should be given more weight than a physical one when it comes to reasons why we don't score as well as we would like. I have experienced the yips, I am pretty sure everyone has. But i didn't just give into it, surrender and start with the cry's into the night "I [i]can't[/i] putt with a standard length putter!" Of course you can, just perhaps not as effectively as you would like when you use the leverage of your body to counteract a natural and normal amount of psychological pressure that golf gives. It is part of the game and it should remain that way.
[/quote]
While I can see where you are coming from, it is clear to me that you have never had to face the dilemma of a physical or psychological impairment that could affect your game...aside from those that afflict all of us to some extent. If you had, I'd be surprised if I heard this same logic from you. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe your purism would force you to leave the game, as physical and psychological ills may force others to do the same. A shame, in either case, really, don't you agree?.
As I said to another, May you always stay healthy out there, may you never have to be forced to adopt a stupid looking method in order to stay in the game.
[/quote]

Purist? I am not sure about that. Though i do find it strange that the pro anchoring set have taken to making that a dirty word. Like if i or anyone else says something like "I am a golf purist" it's on par with "I am a racist" or "Women should be in the kitchen!" It's not. And I am not. And therefore I am living proof (I know how big you guys are on proof, or at least "tending toward") That it doesn't take what is considered to be a true purist to object to the notion that nerves, or twitchness or a shaky hand should be allowed to be compensated for by stabilizing a club against yourself. it is about an equal playing field right? And as I think of it, could we possibly have a twitchier masters champion? That is called pressure and it's part of the game.
I am somewhat disappointed by your poorly thought out assumptions ngb and had assumed that you had read my posts on the issue. Now it's fair to think you missed some but even in the one you quoted, i stated that I have at times struggled with the yips. Also, I have a mild form of a serious back disease that makes putting, specifically putting practice for any real period of time, very painful and difficult. I am lucky because most sufferers of this disease are precluded for many activities i can participate in. And if it ever gets to the point that the act of putting during play becomes too painful I will be thankful that the USGA has kept the long putter legal and made the effort to clearly show what a legal, non anchored putting stroke looks like.
[/quote]
I had no idea that you have played with pain or had the yips. If I had, I would have expected a more liberal attitude I guess, from you, then. Ahh....you are a puzzlement.
I believe that the term purist is tossed out in a sarcastic manner, at least in this argument. It seems that anyone who argues tradition, spirit, convention, yet embraces the changes that suit him, gets the label purist. I am guilty of both being this kind of purist ( at times) and of using the word to describe pro banners, such as yourself. ( I take it that you are renegeing on last nights giddy statement?) Anyway don't take it to heart, it's not like you are a fanboy or a hater. Those two words get my Irish blood really boiling.
and finally for the record, I am not shouting at you........I don't want others to get the wrong idea....
[/quote]

Yes well that's the thing about this that at least for me being a Pro-banner is the disconnect in conversing with those in favor of keeping them legal. I get totally the desire for golf to be as conquerable as it ever will be. It has always for me been a matter that the USGA just said it was for them. I have never felt comfortable with the idea that i could cut my putts down by 2 or 3 a round with an anchored putter, like it was a fair measure of my ability. Sort of like bowling competitively with those side bumpers up. I believe in golf the mental fortitude and overcoming things (i have had driver yips BAD for a full season not all that many moons ago) like the yips or psychological issues is at least half the battle. It seems to me that on some level, all bad swings made with a 5 iron, for anyone who has ever made a good swing with one, was an inability to mentally accomplish the task at that moment and it resulted in a poor result. Why should putting be any different? To me, overcoming those emotional or psychological obstacles by stabilizing a putter against a stationary object, yourself, takes away from the accomplishment because it's an attempt to merely mask a deficiency.

I know it's a different mindset, and I am not attempting to accuse anchored users of anything, but at least it explains why I am against them, even though i am, or at least was, a perfect candidate to try one. This is why i think the ruling they made was right on the money. Keep the equipment legal, I may need it, and ban anchoring the club to retain the element of skill, both mental and physical, in all shots made on the course.
[/quote]
You've said more in this post than in all the others on this topic. I get it now. And yours is an opinion I can respect, even though it opposes mine. If only every other pro banner was as forthright with his/her reasoning,
I laughed at your use of "tended" I only used it because my evidence was not strong, I was walking toward thin ice and I knew it.I was trying to be careful....what a dead giveaway!

[tembolo1284]

Kymar sir...you are a poet. Good stuff.

[lumberman2462]

I've been thinking long and hard about this issue for the past few days - since the ruling. I don't use a long or anchored putter and probably never will even try it.....BUT I COULD CARE LESS IF SOMEONE ELSE DOES. My opinion comes down to the fact that you still have to read the green, judge the speed and make a stroke to get the ball rolling into the hole. Attaching ones elbows to the body or butt of the club in your stomach doesn't seem like that big of a deal.....to me.

The issue in this proposed rule that really bothers me is the mechanism and implementation. USGA & R&A propose the rule and then will finally decide on changing in 3-4 months and THEN make the rule effective years down the road. It's unbelievable that there are so many smart and capable people in both organizations that can screw this deal up. Saying something is going to be against the rules - i[i]n the future[/i] - is just setting up a perpetual public relations nightmare.

I can envision watching a round table discussion on The Golf Channel in about 20 years with Phil, Tiger, Ernie and whoever else is considered great in this era and the topic of major winners will be brought up and someone's gonna take a shot at Ernie for winning 3 majors.....[i]and a half[/i] - because he won with the belly putter.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Dillio187' timestamp='1354113589' post='5989113']
I don't use a long putter, but the USGA must be made up of politicians. You'd think they'd concentrate on real issues in the game like pace of play and golf ball technology, not something like this which has no statistical evidence to back up.
[/quote]

Why do hard things like that when you can do easy things that give the illusion of working for the game.

[spooky]

[quote name='lumberman2462' timestamp='1354308132' post='6001543']
I don't use a long or anchored putter and probably never will even try it.....BUT I COULD CARE LESS IF SOMEONE ELSE DOES.
[/quote]
So you do care then...

Sorry, tried to resist but...

[Jamboy72]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1354294321' post='6000275']
It's a little surprising to see so many anchorers come out and admit the reason they defend it's use is because of the yips. T[i]hat admission [/i]completely backs up the premise that an anchored stroke doesn't necessarily give player a an advantage over player b. It gives them an advantage over their own lack of ability. Sound harsh? I guess it might, though it's not really meant that way. But there are numerous problems with my game, with everyones game, that could probably be helped immensely by either enacting or removing rules from the game. The psychological battle is part of the game. Golf is the only game that can be played by yourself and still feel like you are really competing, We compete against old man par, our best ever score, X of consecutive bogey free holes and against our limitations and abilities. No one can give me a good reason why a psychological issue should be given more weight than a physical one when it comes to reasons why we don't score as well as we would like. I have experienced the yips, I am pretty sure everyone has. But i didn't just give into it, surrender and start with the cry's into the night "I [i]can't[/i] putt with a standard length putter!" Of course you can, just perhaps not as effectively as you would like when you use the leverage of your body to counteract a natural and normal amount of psychological pressure that golf gives. It is part of the game and it should remain that way.
[/quote]

I don't disagree that the psychological battle is a significant part of the game...and it does show up in all facets of the game...my issue with this is the idea that the anchored putter gives someone an advantage over themselves...of course it does...that's the only reason anyone would use one...because it allows (or they think it allows) them to achieve a task more efficiently or with less error...but that in and of itself doesn't make it unique...overcoming natural deficiencies is the only reason people use different clubs...I understand the putter is used more often than any other club in the bag and such, this psychological element of the game must be confronted on 18 separate occasions per round (hold the chip in or hole out)...honestly, I don't have a problem with the USGA proposing a rule change...that is part of their job, even if they do it poorly...I do have an issue with the timing, rationale, and lack of clarity,etc. In addition, I would have thought they would have done a better job creating more of a black/white situation, rather than creating so much (perhaps 50 shades?) of grey....the fact they are proposing that the Kuchar method be allowed indicates to me that they really aren't entirely concerned with a "free stroke" where nerves and the psychological element of the game can have it's due impact....If I were on the other side of this conversation I'd be miffed that the "proposal" didn't go far enough...

[swingdoc80]

Began to get our first phone calls today at the shop demanding refunds for recently purchased belly putters. I suppose legally we could refuse based on the fact that it's the method rather than the actual putter but as the ruling outlaws using the putters in the manner intended then we really have no option than refund. Another nail in the coffin for smaller independent stores. Still st least there's not a recession going on.... Oh wait

[spooky]

[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354313243' post='6001895']
Began to get our first phone calls today at the shop demanding refunds for recently purchased belly putters. I suppose legally we could refuse based on the fact that it's the method rather than the actual putter but as the ruling outlaws using the putters in the manner intended then we really have no option than refund. Another nail in the coffin for smaller independent stores. Still st least there's not a recession going on.... Oh wait
[/quote]
There's no basis upon which a refund should be expected.

[swingdoc80]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354314416' post='6001983']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354313243' post='6001895']
Began to get our first phone calls today at the shop demanding refunds for recently purchased belly putters. I suppose legally we could refuse based on the fact that it's the method rather than the actual putter but as the ruling outlaws using the putters in the manner intended then we really have no option than refund. Another nail in the coffin for smaller independent stores. Still st least there's not a recession going on.... Oh wait
[/quote]
There's no basis upon which a refund should be expected.
[/quote]

I'm afraid your wrong. The ruling will prevent these putters being used in the way in which they were designed. In essence they are designed to be anchored. The permitted methods shown would require a more lofted putter for the left forearm method or if being held away from the body then you may as well use a standard putter whereas these people have paid more money for a belly or broom handle putter. In a business that relies on word of mouth and recommendations from clients it would cost us more in lost business than giving the refunds. Our hands are tied thanks to usga and r&a

[spooky]

[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354315487' post='6002057']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354314416' post='6001983']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354313243' post='6001895']
Began to get our first phone calls today at the shop demanding refunds for recently purchased belly putters. I suppose legally we could refuse based on the fact that it's the method rather than the actual putter but as the ruling outlaws using the putters in the manner intended then we really have no option than refund. Another nail in the coffin for smaller independent stores. Still st least there's not a recession going on.... Oh wait
[/quote]
There's no basis upon which a refund should be expected.
[/quote]

I'm afraid your wrong. The ruling will prevent these putters being used in the way in which they were designed. In essence they are designed to be anchored. The permitted methods shown would require a more lofted putter for the left forearm method or if being held away from the body then you may as well use a standard putter whereas these people have paid more money for a belly or broom handle putter. In a business that relies on word of mouth and recommendations from clients it would cost us more in lost business than giving the refunds. Our hands are tied thanks to usga and r&a
[/quote]
I don't believe I am wrong at all. A putter was purchased that was legal to use. The technique that they want to use is legal for another 3 years. Even after that the clubs will still be legal to use. They were sold in good faith and can still be used - no basis whatsoever for a refund to be [b]expected[/b]. Did you give refunds when the groove rule changed?

[Dire Wolf]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1354295345' post='6000369']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354286799' post='5999635']
There is not and never has been anything in the Rules of golf stating that everyone in the world has a right to play the game any way they want, and to be comfortable doing it.
[/quote]
Really? None of us knew that.
[/quote]

Seems like it.

Oh, you were being sarcastic. Then why are so many people bitching about NEEDING a longer putter because it's more comfortable? Or acting like the USGA/R&A have robbed them somehow? Or that injury or medical problems are the reason for their rule complaints?

[Dire Wolf]

[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354315487' post='6002057']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354314416' post='6001983']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354313243' post='6001895']
Began to get our first phone calls today at the shop demanding refunds for recently purchased belly putters. I suppose legally we could refuse based on the fact that it's the method rather than the actual putter but as the ruling outlaws using the putters in the manner intended then we really have no option than refund. Another nail in the coffin for smaller independent stores. Still st least there's not a recession going on.... Oh wait
[/quote]
There's no basis upon which a refund should be expected.
[/quote]

I'm afraid your wrong. The ruling will prevent these putters being used in the way in which they were designed. In essence they are designed to be anchored. The permitted methods shown would require a more lofted putter for the left forearm method or if being held away from the body then you may as well use a standard putter whereas these people have paid more money for a belly or broom handle putter. In a business that relies on word of mouth and recommendations from clients it would cost us more in lost business than giving the refunds. Our hands are tied thanks to usga and r&a
[/quote]

Take it up with your OEM reps.

[golfdad907]

 

 

USGA, R&A propose anchor ban

 

By Zak Kozuchowski

 

GolfWRX Managing Editor

 

The USGA and R&A have proposed a change to the Rules of Golf that will prohibit the anchoring of a club in during all strokes, including during putting.

The proposed rule will fall under Rule 14-1b, and state:

In making a stroke, the player must not anchor the club, either “directly” or by use of an “anchor point.”

 

Note 1

: The club is anchored “directly” when the player intentionally holds the club or a gripping hand in contact with any part of his body, except that the player may hold the club or a gripping hand against a hand or forearm.

 

Note 2

: An “anchor point” exists when the player intentionally holds a forearm in contact with any part of his body to establish a gripping hand as a stable point around which the other hand may swing the club.

 

The new rule will not alter equipment rules, meaning all conforming equipment including belly and long putters will remain legal. But belly and long putters will not be allowed to be anchored to the body, with the exception of putting styles like Matt Kuchar's, who won The Players Championship while anchoring his putter grip alongside his left forearm.

“We believe we have considered this issue from every angle but given the wide ranging interest in this subject we would like to give stakeholders in the game the opportunity to put forward any new matters for consideration,” said Peter Dawson, Chief Executive of The R&A.

 

Three of the last five major champions: Keegan Bradley, Webb Simpson and Ernie Els have won using anchored putting styles that would be prohibited under the new rule. The rule is expected to be finalized in the spring and go into effect Jan. 1, 2016, after a 90-day comment period that will allow industry members to address concerns about the anchor rule.

 

“Throughout the 600-year history of golf, the essence of playing the game has been to grip the club with the hands and swing it freely at the ball,” said USGA Executive Director Mike Davis. “The player’s challenge is to control the movement of the entire club in striking the ball, and anchoring the club alters the nature of that challenge. Our conclusion is that the Rules of Golf should be amended to preserve the traditional character of the golf swing by eliminating the growing practice of anchoring the club.”

 

Below is a graphic from the USGA that illustrates the new rule.

 

 

Finally! For those with bad backs, you can still use long putters just can't anchor.....about time! Now why wait to implement, Jan 1, 2013 sounds about right.

[swingdoc80]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354316158' post='6002103']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354315487' post='6002057']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354314416' post='6001983']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354313243' post='6001895']
Began to get our first phone calls today at the shop demanding refunds for recently purchased belly putters. I suppose legally we could refuse based on the fact that it's the method rather than the actual putter but as the ruling outlaws using the putters in the manner intended then we really have no option than refund. Another nail in the coffin for smaller independent stores. Still st least there's not a recession going on.... Oh wait
[/quote]
There's no basis upon which a refund should be expected.
[/quote]

I'm afraid your wrong. The ruling will prevent these putters being used in the way in which they were designed. In essence they are designed to be anchored. The permitted methods shown would require a more lofted putter for the left forearm method or if being held away from the body then you may as well use a standard putter whereas these people have paid more money for a belly or broom handle putter. In a business that relies on word of mouth and recommendations from clients it would cost us more in lost business than giving the refunds. Our hands are tied thanks to usga and r&a
[/quote]

Take it up with your OEM reps.
[/quote]

Unfortunately as stated above as the putters themselves are legal but no longer the accepted method I doubt there is much they would do except in a few cases where they may offer partial credits. Pretty sneaky move by the authorities to ensure no legal recourse from the manufacturers.

[spooky]

[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354318777' post='6002295']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354316158' post='6002103']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354315487' post='6002057']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354314416' post='6001983']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354313243' post='6001895']
Began to get our first phone calls today at the shop demanding refunds for recently purchased belly putters. I suppose legally we could refuse based on the fact that it's the method rather than the actual putter but as the ruling outlaws using the putters in the manner intended then we really have no option than refund. Another nail in the coffin for smaller independent stores. Still st least there's not a recession going on.... Oh wait
[/quote]
There's no basis upon which a refund should be expected.
[/quote]

I'm afraid your wrong. The ruling will prevent these putters being used in the way in which they were designed. In essence they are designed to be anchored. The permitted methods shown would require a more lofted putter for the left forearm method or if being held away from the body then you may as well use a standard putter whereas these people have paid more money for a belly or broom handle putter. In a business that relies on word of mouth and recommendations from clients it would cost us more in lost business than giving the refunds. Our hands are tied thanks to usga and r&a
[/quote]

Take it up with your OEM reps.
[/quote]

Unfortunately as stated above as the putters themselves are legal but no longer the accepted method I doubt there is much they would do except in a few cases where they may offer partial credits. Pretty sneaky move by the authorities to ensure no legal recourse from the manufacturers.
[/quote]
Maybe if the suppliers value your business then they will provide a refund or alternative stock on any returned putters, but I doubt it as there is no legitimate basis for a refund. Whether or not you want to do so as a gesture of goodwill is your decision of course.

[hoganfan924]

Keep in mind the rule is still "proposed," with a comment period

[KYMAR]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354318953' post='6002301']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354318777' post='6002295']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354316158' post='6002103']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354315487' post='6002057']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354314416' post='6001983']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354313243' post='6001895']
Began to get our first phone calls today at the shop demanding refunds for recently purchased belly putters. I suppose legally we could refuse based on the fact that it's the method rather than the actual putter but as the ruling outlaws using the putters in the manner intended then we really have no option than refund. Another nail in the coffin for smaller independent stores. Still st least there's not a recession going on.... Oh wait
[/quote]
There's no basis upon which a refund should be expected.
[/quote]

I'm afraid your wrong. The ruling will prevent these putters being used in the way in which they were designed. In essence they are designed to be anchored. The permitted methods shown would require a more lofted putter for the left forearm method or if being held away from the body then you may as well use a standard putter whereas these people have paid more money for a belly or broom handle putter. In a business that relies on word of mouth and recommendations from clients it would cost us more in lost business than giving the refunds. Our hands are tied thanks to usga and r&a
[/quote]

Take it up with your OEM reps.
[/quote]

Unfortunately as stated above as the putters themselves are legal but no longer the accepted method I doubt there is much they would do except in a few cases where they may offer partial credits. Pretty sneaky move by the authorities to ensure no legal recourse from the manufacturers.
[/quote]
Maybe if the suppliers value your business then they will provide a refund or alternative stock on any returned putters, but I doubt it as there is no legitimate basis for a refund. Whether or not you want to do so as a gesture of goodwill is your decision of course.
[/quote]

I empathize with swingdoc and all retailers, especially small independents. But I also agree that there is no legit reason to ask for a refund. If the rule was enacted and enforced starting tomorrow, I could make a case. But people have 37 months to anchor it, or learn a new technique to putt with it without anchoring it.

[nbg352]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1354320885' post='6002431']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354318953' post='6002301']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354318777' post='6002295']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354316158' post='6002103']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354315487' post='6002057']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354314416' post='6001983']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354313243' post='6001895']
Began to get our first phone calls today at the shop demanding refunds for recently purchased belly putters. I suppose legally we could refuse based on the fact that it's the method rather than the actual putter but as the ruling outlaws using the putters in the manner intended then we really have no option than refund. Another nail in the coffin for smaller independent stores. Still st least there's not a recession going on.... Oh wait
[/quote]
There's no basis upon which a refund should be expected.
[/quote]

I'm afraid your wrong. The ruling will prevent these putters being used in the way in which they were designed. In essence they are designed to be anchored. The permitted methods shown would require a more lofted putter for the left forearm method or if being held away from the body then you may as well use a standard putter whereas these people have paid more money for a belly or broom handle putter. In a business that relies on word of mouth and recommendations from clients it would cost us more in lost business than giving the refunds. Our hands are tied thanks to usga and r&a
[/quote]

Take it up with your OEM reps.
[/quote]

Unfortunately as stated above as the putters themselves are legal but no longer the accepted method I doubt there is much they would do except in a few cases where they may offer partial credits. Pretty sneaky move by the authorities to ensure no legal recourse from the manufacturers.
[/quote]
Maybe if the suppliers value your business then they will provide a refund or alternative stock on any returned putters, but I doubt it as there is no legitimate basis for a refund. Whether or not you want to do so as a gesture of goodwill is your decision of course.
[/quote]

I empathize with swingdoc and all retailers, especially small independents. But I also agree that there is no legit reason to ask for a refund. If the rule was enacted and enforced starting tomorrow, I could make a case. But people have 37 months to anchor it, or learn a new technique to putt with it without anchoring it.
[/quote]
And it's not like the thunder clouds haven't been formed for many months, making this imminent and real. The folks who just recently bought long putters did so with full knowledge of the potential for a ban.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354274289' post='5999107']
[quote name='502 to Right' timestamp='1354255561' post='5998793']
Does anyone know if there is a fund to donate to that will sue the USGA and R&A over this? I'd gladly donate up to $10,000 to shove this decision up Davis' and Dawsons' rear ends.
[/quote]
Yep, send it over to me. I'll let you know when there is enough to progress matters.
[/quote]

Yes, I will lend my own expertise (plying key stakeholders with scotch) to this noble effort.

Send funds to bsc c/o madoff-save-my-belly-fund.

[swingdoc80]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354318953' post='6002301']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354318777' post='6002295']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354316158' post='6002103']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354315487' post='6002057']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354314416' post='6001983']
[quote name='swingdoc80' timestamp='1354313243' post='6001895']
Began to get our first phone calls today at the shop demanding refunds for recently purchased belly putters. I suppose legally we could refuse based on the fact that it's the method rather than the actual putter but as the ruling outlaws using the putters in the manner intended then we really have no option than refund. Another nail in the coffin for smaller independent stores. Still st least there's not a recession going on.... Oh wait
[/quote]
There's no basis upon which a refund should be expected.
[/quote]

I'm afraid your wrong. The ruling will prevent these putters being used in the way in which they were designed. In essence they are designed to be anchored. The permitted methods shown would require a more lofted putter for the left forearm method or if being held away from the body then you may as well use a standard putter whereas these people have paid more money for a belly or broom handle putter. In a business that relies on word of mouth and recommendations from clients it would cost us more in lost business than giving the refunds. Our hands are tied thanks to usga and r&a
[/quote]

Take it up with your OEM reps.
[/quote]

Unfortunately as stated above as the putters themselves are legal but no longer the accepted method I doubt there is much they would do except in a few cases where they may offer partial credits. Pretty sneaky move by the authorities to ensure no legal recourse from the manufacturers.
[/quote]
Maybe if the suppliers value your business then they will provide a refund or alternative stock on any returned putters, but I doubt it as there is no legitimate basis for a refund. Whether or not you want to do so as a gesture of goodwill is your decision of course.
[/quote]

The suppliers would get by Without us unfortunately so I doubt any help will be forthcoming. So it's either lose a few thousand pounds now but keep the customer or keep the money now and give up on their future income. Either way it's damaging.

[spooky]

Those aren't necessarily the only options. I personally wouldn't expect a shop to refund in these circumstances - I would think it was a bloody cheek to ask for a refund.

[bscinstnct]

Gut reaction by your customers.

Empathize with them and explain that you are victims as well.

They should understand that you are not responsible for returning money to them.

I think that there may end up being a "settlement" of sorts by the oems in some form of credit for future purchases. Speculation on my part but it makes sense.

If they are impatient, it should not be with you. You sold them in good faith.

You can look them in the eye and explain that they need to be patient.

A reasonable person will understand your position.

[Chief Illiniwek]

The putters aren't junk now. Accept the returns and sell them on eBay. You may not recoup all of your losses, but you certainly won't lose thousands. Unless of course you're being a bit dramatic to prove your point...

[jons1]

but the stigma associated with using one will basically outlaw these putters as soon as the rule goes into effect, if it hasn't already.

[H.A. Kerr]

[quote name='drn92' timestamp='1354219106' post='5996167']
Poorly thought out and poorly implemented. Makes me wonder where my annual donation to the USga is spent.
[/quote]
Man, taxes must drive you absolutely bananas.

[huntdog99]

Hi I am 30 yrs ago. Have we met? This is absurd. Why now? Because someone won a major or two? Give me a break. Its like the USGA has a need to prove why they are still relevant every now and again. Boo (and I don't even use one of the putters)!!!

[Mudguard]

I wonder if I could win 14 majors then I could suggest we go back to 200cc drivers. I see all these cheating sods each Saturday getting within 20m of my drives due to their oversized drivers.

[Chef Otto]

So looking at the illustration you can anchor your forearms with the short putter. But you can't when using the long putter. How in the world could they put this out without noticing the contradiction. Either you can anchor your forearms against your body or you can't it shouldn't matter on the length ofthe putter.

 

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[spooky]

[quote name='cardoustie' timestamp='1354292103' post='6000067']
2. How can the rule vilify one or two styles of anchoring but OK others. Don't give me the fulcrum argument.
[/quote]
Anchoring is all about the fulcrum that is created - anchors tend to attach things, such as the butt of the club, to a fixed point. It's exactly why the Kuchar (Langer) method is ok within these rules - the butt moves within the motion of the swing - it's not anchored within the motion of the swing.