It's official: USGA, R&A propose anchor ban

[spooky]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1354650899' post='6017923']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354649050' post='6017793']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1354648700' post='6017759']
Many patent drugs were sold promising miracles, too.But often, they were baseless and ummmmm....patently untrue.
Phil Rogers used a patented belly in the '60s. Paul Runyan anchored a short putter in the '30's, but it was of his own design. The patented putter was popularized by Azinger. He was definitely not the first to anchor a shorter putter.
The broomstick was not introduced until the early '80's when it was first used by Johnny Miller.There is no evidence that it was developed as a training aid, nor is there evidence refuting that idea.
[/quote]
I had the belly putter down as a practice aid for some reason - certainly that was the first time I saw one - can't remember when though. Regardless of the drug patent references, I would say that the invention absolutely did achieve it's stated goal.

Anyway, 500-600 years of the game trumps the relatively recent popularisation of anchoring and it is particularly disturbing to have seen 14-year old players using them.
[/quote]

I know Eyeline golf had a belly type extension you could use as a training aid, but that was fairly recent...don't forget Berhard Langer, Sam Torrence and other who all used anchored strokes in the 1980s...I don't understand why it would be disturbing to see anyone using an anchored stroke...is it a visual thing? Or do you think they're gaining an unfair advantage? Or do you simply not like it?? All answers are fine, just wondering...
[/quote]
As I've said many times, I always thought the broom putter shouldn't have been allowed purely because it was designed to be used in a vertical or near-vertical manner - there is a rule about that. I actually have more of a problem with the belly putter but concede that a rule about anchoring is the easiest way to deal with this and that includes the broom. I certainly believe the belly putter to provide a mechanically simpler technique that makes it far easier to consistently repeat a putting stroke and that this detracts from the game. I also believe that the idea has always clearly been to grab the club and swing it at the ball - sticking the butt in a fixed position feels inherently wrong to me (aside from the previous points made) and trying to find ways around the difficulty in this way just doesn't seem right to me. I hate the term 'unfair advantage' - they certainly provide an advantage over a putter that is not anchored at the butt.

[Dire Wolf]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1354647286' post='6017643']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354646190' post='6017565']
I suppose the anchoring people complaining about "arbitrary" definitions of golf strokes have always taken issue with the other definitions and rulings regarding what is and isn't a stroke?
[/quote]
I don't think that statement is relevant. The stroke rules until this recent ban, have been in place a very long time. Were they decided arbitrarily? We don't know. But this new one was and it is it we take issue with.
[/quote]


You do not know how much more or less "arbitrary" this decision is compared to previous definitions of what constitutes a stroke, and there was no complaint about those rulings for however long they've been on the books.

As I've said, the only "timing" I suspect would be acceptable among some opponents of this ruling is in the distant past, which isn't possible. You seem to be confirming that belief by excusing the prior "arbitrary" definitions because they've been around long enough to not really affect you.

[jnradioactive]

Many patent drugs were sold promising miracles, too.But often, they were baseless and ummmmm....patently untrue.

Phil Rogers used a patented belly in the '60s. Paul Runyan anchored a short putter in the '30's, but it was of his own design. The patented putter was popularized by Azinger. He was definitely not the first to anchor a shorter putter.

The broomstick was not introduced until the early '80's when it was first used by Johnny Miller.There is no evidence that it was developed as a training aid, nor is there evidence refuting that idea.

I had the belly putter down as a practice aid for some reason - certainly that was the first time I saw one - can't remember when though. Regardless of the drug patent references, I would say that the invention absolutely did achieve it's stated goal.

 

Anyway, 500-600 years of the game trumps the relatively recent popularisation of anchoring and it is particularly disturbing to have seen 14-year old players using them.

Unfortunately, there is no video and little documentation from long long ago. But, I do not think it unreasonable to think that the yips existed, even then. Where there are yips, there is tinkering. Where there is tinkering, who knows? Perhaps anchoring is far older a practice than many would care to believe. I would not discount the notion.

 

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='scooter67' timestamp='1354121090' post='5989883']
[i]One thing missed is all the Pga Professionals that have any(long or belly putters) sitting in his shop. The USGA should help them. They are stuck with these putters now. How would you like to have 5 or 10 sitting in your shop.[/i]
[/quote]

I don't believe you said this. The USGA is only responsible for the rules. Not someone's business inventory, unless of course it's a two way street, where that business owner provides a percentage of sales to the USGA, but we both know that is NOT the case. They own inventory losses from poor decisions, as well as the inventory gain from successful decisions.

[505]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354651480' post='6017959']I also believe that the idea has always clearly been to grab the club and swing it at the ball - sticking the butt in a fixed position feels inherently wrong to me (aside from the previous points made) and trying to find ways around the difficulty in this way just doesn't seem right to me.[/quote]

+1

Putting should be done the same way as the rest of the game. I can't remember ever seeing someone tee off while holding the butt of their driver up against their chest with their left hand.

Since this is causing so much drama, let's all just cart around our own Perfy Putting Robot and then everyone can be happy. People with the yips can keep playing, and since we all still have to read the line and judge the speed it's all the same... right?

[jnradioactive]

I also believe that the idea has always clearly been to grab the club and swing it at the ball - sticking the butt in a fixed position feels inherently wrong to me (aside from the previous points made) and trying to find ways around the difficulty in this way just doesn't seem right to me.

 

+1

 

Putting should be done the same way as the rest of the game. I can't remember ever seeing someone tee off while holding the butt of their driver up against their chest with their left hand.

 

Since this is causing so much drama, let's all just cart around our own Perfy Putting Robot and then everyone can be happy. People with the yips can keep playing, and since we all still have to read the line and judge the speed it's all the same... right? :yes:

 

You talking about me?

 

[Dire Wolf]

I'm sure many people felt the "timing" was wrong and the decision "arbitrary" when it came to many of these rulings, which are now just accepted because they've been around "a long time":

http://www.ruleshistory.com/clubs.html

[Vindog]

[quote name='505' timestamp='1354652758' post='6018051']+1

Putting should be done the same way as the rest of the game. I can't remember ever seeing someone tee off while holding the butt of their driver up against their chest with their left hand.

Since this is causing so much drama, let's all just cart around our own Perfy Putting Robot and then everyone can be happy. People with the yips can keep playing, and since we all still have to read the line and judge the speed it's all the same... right?
[/quote]

well the flaw in this idea is that putting is inherently different from a full swing, and the rules surrounding putters themselves are a bit different.

You don't see people anchoring drivers because of the obvious loss in swing speed, but it is, in fact, perfectly within the rules (until the change). The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish. Would you have players tee off left hand low? Claw grip? Pencil grip?

[Dire Wolf]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']
[quote name='505' timestamp='1354652758' post='6018051']+1

Putting should be done the same way as the rest of the game. I can't remember ever seeing someone tee off while holding the butt of their driver up against their chest with their left hand.

Since this is causing so much drama, let's all just cart around our own Perfy Putting Robot and then everyone can be happy. People with the yips can keep playing, and since we all still have to read the line and judge the speed it's all the same... right?
[/quote]

well the flaw in this idea is that putting is inherently different from a full swing, and the rules surrounding putters themselves are a bit different.

You don't see people anchoring drivers because of the obvious loss in swing speed, but it is, in fact, perfectly within the rules (until the change). The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish. Would you have players tee off left hand low? Claw grip? Pencil grip?
[/quote]


That's part of the point. Putters didn't start out being so different from other clubs. But enter design changes like the Schenectady and the sky has practically been the limit for proposed modifications to increasingly mechanize or circumvent the would-be difficult act of rolling the ball in the hole. The rules have had to account for that over the years. This is just one in a string of many.

[505]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish. Would you have players tee off left hand low? Claw grip? Pencil grip?
[/quote]

Those are all still golf strokes in my eyes, unlike the broom. The club is in both hands, and only both hands. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all shots be played with the exact same grip... but even you have to admit that the broom style isn't even close to a normal golf stroke. Not even remotely.

BTW, I got paired up with someone once that actually played all of his shots left hand low. He shot in the mid 80's. Was kind of impressive actually.

[Vindog]

[quote name='505' timestamp='1354655050' post='6018215']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish. Would you have players tee off left hand low? Claw grip? Pencil grip?
[/quote]

Those are all still golf strokes in my eyes, unlike the broom. The club is in both hands, and only both hands. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all shots be played with the exact same grip... but even you have to admit that the broom style isn't even close to a normal golf stroke. Not even remotely.

BTW, I got paired up with someone once that actually played all of his shots left hand low. He shot in the mid 80's. Was kind of impressive actually.
[/quote]

A fella from the Big Break too (can't remember his name), also Tim Couch plays all of his short game shots LLL. Bunkers, chips, pitches...everything. (or he did)

[nbg352]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354653875' post='6018129']
I'm sure many people felt the "timing" was wrong and the decision "arbitrary" when it came to many of these rulings, which are now just accepted because they've been around "a long time":

[url="http://www.ruleshistory.com/clubs.html"]http://www.ruleshistory.com/clubs.html[/url]
[/quote]
We have no idea whether these old decisions were considered ill timed or arbitrary in their day. We do know that the anchoring ban is both.

[BenSnead]

[quote name='505' timestamp='1354652758' post='6018051']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354651480' post='6017959']I also believe that the idea has always clearly been to grab the club and swing it at the ball[/quote]

+1

Putting should be done the same way as the rest of the game.
[/quote]
I was just thinking about this from absolutely the opposite perspective.

What you say is a fundamental contradiction that has been a problem for a long time.
There is no reason an intelligent and creative person would go about solving the challenges of driving and putting in the same way.
They are very different -actually opposite in many ways - even within what's considered traditional technique and have been for at least a hundred years, probably much more.

I don't think forcing competitors to do something stupidly and inefficiently then complaining when some rebel and try to find better ways is within the spirit of sport.

The fact that nobody would anchor, straddle the line or billiard stroke a drive seems to me to support the idea of giving up this traditional foolishness that golf is all one 'thing' and just let people drive efficiently AND putt efficiently.

[BenSnead]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354655173' post='6018221']
[quote name='505' timestamp='1354655050' post='6018215']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish. Would you have players tee off left hand low? Claw grip? Pencil grip?
[/quote]

Those are all still golf strokes in my eyes, unlike the broom. The club is in both hands, and only both hands. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all shots be played with the exact same grip... but even you have to admit that the broom style isn't even close to a normal golf stroke. Not even remotely.

BTW, I got paired up with someone once that actually played all of his shots left hand low. He shot in the mid 80's. Was kind of impressive actually.
[/quote]

A fella from the Big Break too (can't remember his name), also Tim Couch plays all of his short game shots LLL. Bunkers, chips, pitches...everything. (or he did)
[/quote]

Coincidentally, Charlie Owens, who introduced the broomstick to pro golf hit all his other shots 'cross-handed'. And won on the senior tour doing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYyr9dvD4KE

[spooky]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']
The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish.
[/quote]
Why? I mean the fundamental aspect of taking a free swing with all clubs?

[505]

[quote name='BenSnead' timestamp='1354656454' post='6018319']
There is no reason an intelligent and creative person would go about solving the challenges of driving and putting in the same way.
[/quote]

You're totally right. Next time I go out to shoot some pool I'll just remind everyone that there is a fundamental difference between breaking and pocketing the 9, so from now on I'm going to only use a cue for break shots. For the others I'm going to roll the ball with my hand because I'm less likely to miss an easy tap in. They can all do it too so it's not an unfair advantage, who cares if we all now look like idiots?

Absolute nonsense.

[spooky]

[quote name='505' timestamp='1354655050' post='6018215']
BTW, I got paired up with someone once that actually played all of his shots left hand low. He shot in the mid 80's. Was kind of impressive actually.
[/quote]
I worked with a pro who used a different grip depending on the shape of shot he wanted - he was very effective doing this.

[Vindog]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354657792' post='6018433']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']
The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish.
[/quote]
Why? I mean the fundamental aspect of taking a free swing with all clubs?
[/quote]
Well, because they're not all the same. And even the fact that there are different rules surrounding the putter itself tells us that it's different. I understand the intent to define what a "stroke" should be, but using the argument that you've never seen a player tee off with an anchored club is not exactly winning the case.

I guess that's where I was going...

[spooky]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354658054' post='6018453']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354657792' post='6018433']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']
The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish.
[/quote]
Why? I mean the fundamental aspect of taking a free swing with all clubs?
[/quote]
Well, because they're not all the same. And even the fact that there are different rules surrounding the putter itself tells us that it's different. I understand the intent to define what a "stroke" should be, but using the argument that you've never seen a player tee off with an anchored club is not exactly winning the case.

I guess that's where I was going...
[/quote]
Well, I wouldn't have tried that one... anchoring a driver would be daft. I don't see the problem with a stroke that is commonly accepted as being traditional - grip the club and swing it freely. If someone finds it difficult then that's a shame but it's not meant to be an easy game.

[Vindog]

[quote name='505' timestamp='1354655050' post='6018215']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish. Would you have players tee off left hand low? Claw grip? Pencil grip?
[/quote]

Those are all still golf strokes in my eyes, unlike the broom. The club is in both hands, and only both hands. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all shots be played with the exact same grip... but even you have to admit that the broom style isn't even close to a normal golf stroke. Not even remotely.

[/quote]

It doesn't even closely resemble golf, not at all, but..let me ask.

If a player continued to use an un-anchored broomstick, this immediately resembles golf, even though the butt end of the club is a mere inches different from where it looks nothing like golf?

[Jamboy72]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354651480' post='6017959']
[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1354650899' post='6017923']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354649050' post='6017793']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1354648700' post='6017759']
Many patent drugs were sold promising miracles, too.But often, they were baseless and ummmmm....patently untrue.
Phil Rogers used a patented belly in the '60s. Paul Runyan anchored a short putter in the '30's, but it was of his own design. The patented putter was popularized by Azinger. He was definitely not the first to anchor a shorter putter.
The broomstick was not introduced until the early '80's when it was first used by Johnny Miller.There is no evidence that it was developed as a training aid, nor is there evidence refuting that idea.
[/quote]
I had the belly putter down as a practice aid for some reason - certainly that was the first time I saw one - can't remember when though. Regardless of the drug patent references, I would say that the invention absolutely did achieve it's stated goal.

Anyway, 500-600 years of the game trumps the relatively recent popularisation of anchoring and it is particularly disturbing to have seen 14-year old players using them.
[/quote]

I know Eyeline golf had a belly type extension you could use as a training aid, but that was fairly recent...don't forget Berhard Langer, Sam Torrence and other who all used anchored strokes in the 1980s...I don't understand why it would be disturbing to see anyone using an anchored stroke...is it a visual thing? Or do you think they're gaining an unfair advantage? Or do you simply not like it?? All answers are fine, just wondering...
[/quote]
As I've said many times, I always thought the broom putter shouldn't have been allowed purely because it was designed to be used in a vertical or near-vertical manner - there is a rule about that. I actually have more of a problem with the belly putter but concede that a rule about anchoring is the easiest way to deal with this and that includes the broom. I certainly believe the belly putter to provide a mechanically simpler technique that makes it far easier to consistently repeat a putting stroke and that this detracts from the game. I also believe that the idea has always clearly been to grab the club and swing it at the ball - sticking the butt in a fixed position feels inherently wrong to me (aside from the previous points made) and trying to find ways around the difficulty in this way just doesn't seem right to me. I hate the term 'unfair advantage' - they certainly provide an advantage over a putter that is not anchored at the butt.
[/quote]

That's fair...just interesting where people decide to draw certain lines...the long putter, as you state, is intended to be used in a near vertical fashion, but it clearly does not violate any rules of golf...it may bump up against them, but it certainly doesn't break any rules....it's interesting that when we put limits on things, whether it be how a club is used or the size of a club, grooves, etc. some people are applauded for pushing boundaries and some people are seen as circumventing a rule...And I wish it was as simple as how one feels about the difficulty of the game because for every person who feels it's not right to limit the difficulty of putting, thousands more are all about hitting the ball further and straighter...

[505]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354658445' post='6018495']
[quote name='505' timestamp='1354655050' post='6018215']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish. Would you have players tee off left hand low? Claw grip? Pencil grip?
[/quote]

Those are all still golf strokes in my eyes, unlike the broom. The club is in both hands, and only both hands. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all shots be played with the exact same grip... but even you have to admit that the broom style isn't even close to a normal golf stroke. Not even remotely.

[/quote]

It doesn't even closely resemble golf, not at all, but..let me ask.

If a player continued to use an un-anchored broomstick, this immediately resembles golf, even though the butt end of the club is a mere inches different from where it looks nothing like golf?
[/quote]

Of course not... although I never said I agreed 100% with the way they worded the rule. I was hoping that they would go further and say no anchoring of any sort (kucher method included), and the putter has to be the shortest club in the bag.

[nbg352]

[quote name='505' timestamp='1354657877' post='6018441']
[quote name='BenSnead' timestamp='1354656454' post='6018319']
There is no reason an intelligent and creative person would go about solving the challenges of driving and putting in the same way.
[/quote]

You're totally right. Next time I go out to shoot some pool I'll just remind everyone that there is a fundamental difference between breaking and pocketing the 9, so from now on I'm going to only use a cue for break shots. [b]For the others I'm going to roll the ball with my hand because I'm less likely to miss an easy tap in[/b]. They can all do it too so it's not an unfair advantage, who cares if we all now look like idiots?

Absolute nonsense.
[/quote]
Yes what you suggest is absolute nonsense. Not to mention, it's also against the rules. And always has been.

[spooky]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1354658672' post='6018503']
That's fair...just interesting where people decide to draw certain lines...the long putter, as you state, is intended to be used in a near vertical fashion, but it clearly does not violate any rules of golf...it may bump up against them, but it certainly doesn't break any rules....it's interesting that when we put limits on things, whether it be how a club is used or the size of a club, grooves, etc. some people are applauded for pushing boundaries and some people are seen as circumventing a rule...And I wish it was as simple as how one feels about the difficulty of the game because for every person who feels it's not right to limit the difficulty of putting, thousands more are all about hitting the ball further and straighter...
[/quote]
There is a rule that states a variation in lie angle can be required where the club is designed to be used in a vertical or near-vertical manner but it is extremely vague and never seems to have been enforced for some reason. Clearly there was an intent for a pendulum motion not to have been permitted. Good points though.

[Vindog]

[quote name='505' timestamp='1354658736' post='6018509']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354658445' post='6018495']
[quote name='505' timestamp='1354655050' post='6018215']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish. Would you have players tee off left hand low? Claw grip? Pencil grip?
[/quote]

Those are all still golf strokes in my eyes, unlike the broom. The club is in both hands, and only both hands. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all shots be played with the exact same grip... but even you have to admit that the broom style isn't even close to a normal golf stroke. Not even remotely.

[/quote]

It doesn't even closely resemble golf, not at all, but..let me ask.

If a player continued to use an un-anchored broomstick, this immediately resembles golf, even though the butt end of the club is a mere inches different from where it looks nothing like golf?
[/quote]

Of course not... although I never said I agreed 100% with the way they worded the rule. I was hoping that they would go further and say no anchoring of any sort (kucher method included), and the putter has to be the shortest club in the bag.
[/quote]

I think the length rules should be the same across the board. 48" no exception for putters. This rules out dropping with a broomie for an extra few inches.

[nbg352]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354658383' post='6018487']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354658054' post='6018453']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354657792' post='6018433']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']
The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish.
[/quote]
Why? I mean the fundamental aspect of taking a free swing with all clubs?
[/quote]
Well, because they're not all the same. And even the fact that there are different rules surrounding the putter itself tells us that it's different. I understand the intent to define what a "stroke" should be, but using the argument that you've never seen a player tee off with an anchored club is not exactly winning the case.

I guess that's where I was going...
[/quote]
Well, I wouldn't have tried that one... anchoring a driver would be daft. I don't see the problem with a stroke that is commonly accepted as being traditional - [b]grip the club and swing it freely[/b]. If someone finds it difficult then that's a shame but it's not meant to be an easy game.
[/quote]
You have been bandying this about as if it is a rule. It is not. Nowhere in the rules of golf is this term used, loosely or precisely.Perhaps you can elaborate?

[505]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1354658889' post='6018529']
[quote name='505' timestamp='1354657877' post='6018441']
[quote name='BenSnead' timestamp='1354656454' post='6018319']
There is no reason an intelligent and creative person would go about solving the challenges of driving and putting in the same way.
[/quote]

You're totally right. Next time I go out to shoot some pool I'll just remind everyone that there is a fundamental difference between breaking and pocketing the 9, so from now on I'm going to only use a cue for break shots. [b]For the others I'm going to roll the ball with my hand because I'm less likely to miss an easy tap in[/b]. They can all do it too so it's not an unfair advantage, who cares if we all now look like idiots?

Absolute nonsense.
[/quote]
Yes what you suggest is absolute nonsense. Not to mention, it's also against the rules. And always has been.
[/quote]

But I want to keep playing the game man. Every once in awhile I top an easy one with a cue, and this is the only way I can keep playing.

[nbg352]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354659011' post='6018535']
[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1354658672' post='6018503']
That's fair...just interesting where people decide to draw certain lines...the long putter, as you state, is intended to be used in a near vertical fashion, but it clearly does not violate any rules of golf...it may bump up against them, but it certainly doesn't break any rules....it's interesting that when we put limits on things, whether it be how a club is used or the size of a club, grooves, etc. some people are applauded for pushing boundaries and some people are seen as circumventing a rule...And I wish it was as simple as how one feels about the difficulty of the game because for every person who feels it's not right to limit the difficulty of putting, thousands more are all about hitting the ball further and straighter...
[/quote]
There is a rule that states a variation in lie angle can be required where the club is designed to be used in a vertical or near-vertical manner but it is extremely vague and never seems to have been enforced for some reason. Clearly there was an intent for a pendulum motion not to have been permitted. Good points though.
[/quote]
It has never been enforced because it does not exist. Period. If it existed, it would not be vague and it would be enforced.

[spooky]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1354659279' post='6018571']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354658383' post='6018487']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354658054' post='6018453']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354657792' post='6018433']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354654065' post='6018141']
The idea that all strokes should be the same is outlandish.
[/quote]
Why? I mean the fundamental aspect of taking a free swing with all clubs?
[/quote]
Well, because they're not all the same. And even the fact that there are different rules surrounding the putter itself tells us that it's different. I understand the intent to define what a "stroke" should be, but using the argument that you've never seen a player tee off with an anchored club is not exactly winning the case.

I guess that's where I was going...
[/quote]
Well, I wouldn't have tried that one... anchoring a driver would be daft. I don't see the problem with a stroke that is commonly accepted as being traditional - [b]grip the club and swing it freely[/b]. If someone finds it difficult then that's a shame but it's not meant to be an easy game.
[/quote]
You have been bandying this about as if it is a rule. It is not. Nowhere in the rules of golf is this term used, loosely or precisely.Perhaps you can elaborate?
[/quote]
What on earth are you talking about? At what point did I say or infer it was a rule? Come on fella, get a grip (and swing freely) - I simply said consistently that I feel this is how the game should be played. You're stretching a bit there and possibly just trying to argue for the sake of it. I don't see the point of your response.

[spooky]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1354659462' post='6018589']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354659011' post='6018535']
[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1354658672' post='6018503']
That's fair...just interesting where people decide to draw certain lines...the long putter, as you state, is intended to be used in a near vertical fashion, but it clearly does not violate any rules of golf...it may bump up against them, but it certainly doesn't break any rules....it's interesting that when we put limits on things, whether it be how a club is used or the size of a club, grooves, etc. some people are applauded for pushing boundaries and some people are seen as circumventing a rule...And I wish it was as simple as how one feels about the difficulty of the game because for every person who feels it's not right to limit the difficulty of putting, thousands more are all about hitting the ball further and straighter...
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There is a rule that states a variation in lie angle can be required where the club is designed to be used in a vertical or near-vertical manner but it is extremely vague and never seems to have been enforced for some reason. Clearly there was an intent for a pendulum motion not to have been permitted. Good points though.
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It has never been enforced because it does not exist. Period. If it existed, it would not be vague and it would be enforced.
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You sure you want to go there? You are stating that there is no rule relating to putters that are intended to be used in vertical or near-vertical manner?