It's official: USGA, R&A propose anchor ban

[BenSnead]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354748882' post='6024343']
Not really - the old Futura had a sole that appeared to be designed to help make a vertical stroke - the replacement had that changed. The difficulty is in judgement of the club being designed to be used effectively in a vertical or near-vertical manner. Not necessarily the way it is used but the way it is designed to be used, which may not be the same thing. I found the Torrance picture interesting - curved sole to enable the club to sit at a wide range of lie angles and long shaft to enable a vertical or near-vertical stroke. Not sure how that would have differed from the Futura in principle.
[/quote]

The Torrance putter head while fairly rounded is also quite long. That is a factor in judging if it can be 'effectively' rocked up and used vertically.

[spooky]

[quote name='BenSnead' timestamp='1354800080' post='6026619']
[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354748882' post='6024343']
Not really - the old Futura had a sole that appeared to be designed to help make a vertical stroke - the replacement had that changed. The difficulty is in judgement of the club being designed to be used effectively in a vertical or near-vertical manner. Not necessarily the way it is used but the way it is designed to be used, which may not be the same thing. I found the Torrance picture interesting - curved sole to enable the club to sit at a wide range of lie angles and long shaft to enable a vertical or near-vertical stroke. Not sure how that would have differed from the Futura in principle.
[/quote]

The Torrance putter head while fairly rounded is also quite long. That is a factor in judging if it can be 'effectively' rocked up and used vertically.
[/quote]
Obviously it can be used rather effectively in that way.

[Dire Wolf]

I'm going to add that fighting the yips and fighting yourself on the golf course are integral parts of the game, imo. There's a reason you can't take beta-blockers while playing in official tournaments. They're "drugs" that just about take the self-control issue out of the game. The USGA likely sees the stabilizing benefits of anchoring in the same way.

Putting yips are psychological. Players who claim to "need" anchoring are fixing their psychological problem with a shortcut that takes that challenge out of the game. And this shortcut can't be allowed for the same reason we don't eliminate fairway bunkers or OB or water that might psychologically intimidate you. There's nothing "arbitrary" about that.

[BenSnead]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354800041' post='6026617']
[quote name='BenSnead' timestamp='1354799827' post='6026607']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354797041' post='6026483']
I've had bad, long cases of the yips and I cured them with determination and practice with the short putter. I have no sympathy for anyone unwilling to do the same, and who thinks he's entitled to "buy a game" with a piece of equipment, which is what this is REALLY all about.
[/quote]

Wonderful point.
These guys like Els,Singh,Langer,Kite and Snead who just wouldn't put any work into their game are disgusting.
What would they have ever accomplished without 'cheater sticks'?
[/quote]

1. Are you seriously trying to say that the yips don't happen to players who are good at everything else?

2. How about we flip your sarcasm on its ear and take the more realistic approach that these players who worked so hard on the other aspects of their game should be able to apply the same determination to fixing their putting without resorting to specialized equipment made for a bannable method, especially if some schmoe off the street can do the same?
[/quote]

1. No. Even given the sarcasm I don't know where you got that.

2. I don't think that's at all the more realistic supposition. Mine is that given the absolute certainty of the immense amount of hard work many of the players that move to unconventional methods put into all aspects of the game if they [b]could [/b]have fixed the problem with simple work on the convential methods they started with and in some cases were great putters with for a while they [b]would[/b]'ve.

Then you have players like Hogan and Watson who never really fixed their putting problems. Or Miller who never really did even [b]with [/b]using unconventional methods. Or Phil who tried belly and gave it up and is now on claw. All just too lazy to work at conventional enough?

I have no problem using the broomstick unanchored. That could be because I'm just not really any good either way.
Comparing you and the clearly hard working great players taking 'the easy way' might be similar.

[Dire Wolf]

Nobody is entitled to a fully rounded golf game. Not even Ben Hogan.

[Mudguard]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354800955' post='6026677']
I'm going to add that fighting the yips and fighting yourself on the golf course are integral parts of the game, imo. There's a reason you can't take beta-blockers while playing in official tournaments. They're "drugs" that just about take the self-control issue out of the game. The USGA likely sees the stabilizing benefits of anchoring in the same way.
[/quote]

You can argue "integral part of the game" for many aspects. I believe hitting the centre of the clubface is an integral part of the game, why should they allow large headed clubs which give a poorer golfer a better chance of making good contact? Big headed drivers take the self control out of the game....

I realise the yips are psychological, I can hit putts occasionally on the putting green and nothing happens. I work full time, play golf on Saturday and Sunday, and putt for an hour a week inbetween. I would love the time to overcome my issue, but there's only so much time. I don't want to spend my Saturday's shooting 77 with 40 putts. It's what nearly made me quit in the first place.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Mudguard' timestamp='1354821789' post='6028209']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354800955' post='6026677']
I'm going to add that fighting the yips and fighting yourself on the golf course are integral parts of the game, imo. There's a reason you can't take beta-blockers while playing in official tournaments. They're "drugs" that just about take the self-control issue out of the game. The USGA likely sees the stabilizing benefits of anchoring in the same way.
[/quote]

You can argue "integral part of the game" for many aspects. I believe hitting the centre of the clubface is an integral part of the game, why should they allow large headed clubs which give a poorer golfer a better chance of making good contact? Big headed drivers take the self control out of the game....

I realise the yips are psychological, I can hit putts occasionally on the putting green and nothing happens. I work full time, play golf on Saturday and Sunday, and putt for an hour a week inbetween. I would love the time to overcome my issue, but there's only so much time. I don't want to spend my Saturday's shooting 77 with 40 putts. It's what nearly made me quit in the first place.
[/quote]

If using an anchored putting stroke allows you to meet your other (more pressing) life responsibilities...

[i]...you go right ahead and anchor.[/i]

I went through a case of the driver yips about 10 years ago...and I'd be happy to give you some advice on how to handle the yips, if you're interested.

[jnradioactive]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1354822660' post='6028279']
[quote name='Mudguard' timestamp='1354821789' post='6028209']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354800955' post='6026677']
I'm going to add that fighting the yips and fighting yourself on the golf course are integral parts of the game, imo. There's a reason you can't take beta-blockers while playing in official tournaments. They're "drugs" that just about take the self-control issue out of the game. The USGA likely sees the stabilizing benefits of anchoring in the same way.
[/quote]

You can argue "integral part of the game" for many aspects. I believe hitting the centre of the clubface is an integral part of the game, why should they allow large headed clubs which give a poorer golfer a better chance of making good contact? Big headed drivers take the self control out of the game....

I realise the yips are psychological, I can hit putts occasionally on the putting green and nothing happens. I work full time, play golf on Saturday and Sunday, and putt for an hour a week inbetween. I would love the time to overcome my issue, but there's only so much time. I don't want to spend my Saturday's shooting 77 with 40 putts. It's what nearly made me quit in the first place.
[/quote]

If using an anchored putting stroke allows you to meet your other (more pressing) life responsibilities...

[i]...you go right ahead and [b]Cheat.[/b][/i]

I went through a case of the driver yips about 10 years ago...and I'd be happy to give you some advice on how to handle the yips, if you're interested.
[/quote]

FIFY...

[scotee]

[quote name='spooky' timestamp='1354756365' post='6024833']
[quote name='inpresX' timestamp='1354751683' post='6024555']
Gary McCord has been a supporter of face on putting:

I think the reason the shaft is not completely vertical in this shot is to keep the USGA happy. This technique is MUCH more effective when you hang the putter vertically by its own weight.

Link to the original article:
[url="http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/2011-01/fun-issue-gary-mccord-putting"]http://www.golfdiges...-mccord-putting[/url]
[/quote]
The rule we were discussing was created with the express intent of not enabling a vertical or near-vertical stroke. There's something rotten about trying to find ways around rules when you are fully aware of their intent. Like a lawyer getting a criminal off the hook on a technicality - clever, but somewhat distasteful.
[/quote]

[size=4][color=#000000]It's not about trying to get around the rule. It's about clearing up the confusion[/color][color=#000000]. The rule we are [/color][color=#000000]discussing is unclear. Either it is not in effect or has been [/color][color=#000000]unenforced. Guys have been plum bobbing their long putters for a long time in strokes like the side saddle shown above. The new rule is only about [/color][color=#000000]anchoring but I [/color][color=#000000]imagine that Mike Davis and Peter Dawson are reading these forum threads and saying "Oh crap we didn't think of that. Now we have to address something else." [/color][/size]

[kellygreen]

[quote name='jnradioactive' timestamp='1354822839' post='6028293']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1354822660' post='6028279']
[quote name='Mudguard' timestamp='1354821789' post='6028209']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354800955' post='6026677']
I'm going to add that fighting the yips and fighting yourself on the golf course are integral parts of the game, imo. There's a reason you can't take beta-blockers while playing in official tournaments. They're "drugs" that just about take the self-control issue out of the game. The USGA likely sees the stabilizing benefits of anchoring in the same way.
[/quote]

You can argue "integral part of the game" for many aspects. I believe hitting the centre of the clubface is an integral part of the game, why should they allow large headed clubs which give a poorer golfer a better chance of making good contact? Big headed drivers take the self control out of the game....

I realise the yips are psychological, I can hit putts occasionally on the putting green and nothing happens. I work full time, play golf on Saturday and Sunday, and putt for an hour a week inbetween. I would love the time to overcome my issue, but there's only so much time. I don't want to spend my Saturday's shooting 77 with 40 putts. It's what nearly made me quit in the first place.
[/quote]

If using an anchored putting stroke allows you to meet your other (more pressing) life responsibilities...

[i]...you go right ahead and [b]Cheat.[/b][/i]

I went through a case of the driver yips about 10 years ago...and I'd be happy to give you some advice on how to handle the yips, if you're interested.
[/quote]

FIFY...
[/quote]

At the end of the day, golf is still just a game.

I game I happen to love a great deal...but it is still a game.

...and there are MANY things in life that are more important than it...or its (at times arcane and rather silly) rules.

I'd rather see someone "cut corners" in a game of recreational golf, than see him cut corners in real life just so that he can practice his non-anchored putting.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354800955' post='6026677']
I'm going to add that fighting the yips and fighting yourself on the golf course are integral parts of the game, imo. There's a reason you can't take beta-blockers while playing in official tournaments. They're "drugs" that just about take the self-control issue out of the game. The USGA likely sees the stabilizing benefits of anchoring in the same way.

Putting yips are psychological. Players who claim to "need" anchoring are fixing their psychological problem with a shortcut that takes that challenge out of the game. And this shortcut can't be allowed for the same reason we don't eliminate fairway bunkers or OB or water that might psychologically intimidate you. There's nothing "arbitrary" about that.
[/quote]

The yips are psychological, and there is no physical cure for a psychological problem.

What ALL of these alternative ways of putting do for the person with the yips, is that they REDUCE the physical cues that reinforce the bad mental habits that are the essence of the yips.

Its like dealing with my dogs. I've given my corgis ice cubes as a treat when I leave in the [i]morning [/i]for so long now, that whenever they see me reach into the freezer and grab one in the morning, [i]they sprint for their crates[/i]. But when I grab one during [i]evening[/i], [i]they don't[/i]. They associate getting ice in the morning with me rewarding them for doing something I want. They associate getting ice in the evening with me simply being glad to see them.

Recovering alcoholics and drug addicts have the same conditioned response around the physical habits and cues that used to surround their drug use...and not being aware of them, once they quit can trigger intense cravings and relapse.

The alternative putting styles break up those physical cues that the yippy player associates with MISSING short putts. Used properly the can be the foundation for building new mental habits. But if the player continues to have the same negative patterns of thinking...it is only a matter of time before the player begins to miss short putts with the new technique as well.

There are no magic bullets.

[Dire Wolf]

[quote name='Mudguard' timestamp='1354821789' post='6028209']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354800955' post='6026677']
I'm going to add that fighting the yips and fighting yourself on the golf course are integral parts of the game, imo. There's a reason you can't take beta-blockers while playing in official tournaments. They're "drugs" that just about take the self-control issue out of the game. The USGA likely sees the stabilizing benefits of anchoring in the same way.
[/quote]

You can argue "integral part of the game" for many aspects. I believe hitting the centre of the clubface is an integral part of the game, why should they allow large headed clubs which give a poorer golfer a better chance of making good contact? Big headed drivers take the self control out of the game....

I realise the yips are psychological, I can hit putts occasionally on the putting green and nothing happens. I work full time, play golf on Saturday and Sunday, and putt for an hour a week inbetween. I would love the time to overcome my issue, but there's only so much time. I don't want to spend my Saturday's shooting 77 with 40 putts. It's what nearly made me quit in the first place.
[/quote]

I would have no problem rolling back equipment standards to return ballstriking to a higher premium, so the sweet spot argument doesn't change what I'm saying. But that's a sidenote. [b]The rule in question is about a TECHNIQUE integral to the game (including mental technique), not equipment standards.[/b] [b]That's the difference between arguing whether a baseball glove should be limited in size and whether or not it's legal to stand on home plate to draw beanballs and walks.[/b]

Again, nobody it entitled to a golf game. You may just have to accept that you can't buy a putting game. Sorry.

[Dire Wolf]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1354885566' post='6031991']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354800955' post='6026677']
I'm going to add that fighting the yips and fighting yourself on the golf course are integral parts of the game, imo. There's a reason you can't take beta-blockers while playing in official tournaments. They're "drugs" that just about take the self-control issue out of the game. The USGA likely sees the stabilizing benefits of anchoring in the same way.

Putting yips are psychological. Players who claim to "need" anchoring are fixing their psychological problem with a shortcut that takes that challenge out of the game. And this shortcut can't be allowed for the same reason we don't eliminate fairway bunkers or OB or water that might psychologically intimidate you. There's nothing "arbitrary" about that.
[/quote]

The yips are psychological, and there is no physical cure for a psychological problem.

What ALL of these alternative ways of putting do for the person with the yips, is that they REDUCE the physical cues that reinforce the bad mental habits that are the essence of the yips.

Its like dealing with my dogs. I've given my corgis ice cubes as a treat when I leave in the [i]morning [/i]for so long now, that whenever they see me reach into the freezer and grab one in the morning, [i]they sprint for their crates[/i]. But when I grab one during [i]evening[/i], [i]they don't[/i]. They associate getting ice in the morning with me rewarding them for doing something I want. They associate getting ice in the evening with me simply being glad to see them.

Recovering alcoholics and drug addicts have the same conditioned response around the physical habits and cues that used to surround their drug use...and not being aware of them, once they quit can trigger intense cravings and relapse.

The alternative putting styles break up those physical cues that the yippy player associates with MISSING short putts. Used properly the can be the foundation for building new mental habits. But if the player continues to have the same negative patterns of thinking...it is only a matter of time before the player begins to miss short putts with the new technique as well.

There are no magic bullets.
[/quote]

Really? So simplified mechanics don't make mechanical execution easier? The "placebo effect" doesn't also exist?

What if anchoring, in part, removes some physical variable that was causing psychological confusion and dread? Then the physical change is creating psychological change.

I know quite a bit about psychology and the yips. If these items/techniques didn't work in SOME way, they wouldn't be used by players looking for this exact fix. You can argue that it's temporary or not a "magic bullet" but that doesn't matter. Something doesn't need to work 100% of the time to still create issues.

[rafal]

It's gotta be one of the most unproductive threads in wrx history.

Even the ones during TW scandal were more beneficial to the humankind.

[Vindog]

[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1354891376' post='6032465']
It's gotta be one of the most unproductive threads in wrx history.

Even the ones during TW scandal were more beneficial to the humankind.
[/quote]

With posts like this, I can't help but wonder why!!!

[Dire Wolf]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354892815' post='6032587']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1354891376' post='6032465']
It's gotta be one of the most unproductive threads in wrx history.

Even the ones during TW scandal were more beneficial to the humankind.
[/quote]

With posts like this, I can't help but wonder why!!!
[/quote]

What is a discussion thread on the internet supposed to "produce" anyway? Consensus? Never happens.

Discussion? Oh yeah, that's right. ;p

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354890878' post='6032425']
Really? So simplified mechanics don't make mechanical execution easier? The "placebo effect" doesn't also exist?

What if anchoring, in part, removes some physical variable that was causing psychological confusion and dread? Then the physical change is creating psychological change.

I know quite a bit about psychology and the yips. If these items/techniques didn't work in SOME way, they wouldn't be used by players looking for this exact fix. You can argue that it's temporary or not a "magic bullet" but that doesn't matter. Something doesn't need to work 100% of the time to still create issues.
[/quote]

Simplified mechanics improve consistency...but that is a different problem than the yips. Such mechanics may prevent the missing of lots of short putts that gives rise to the yips....but (by itself) won't cure them once they've taken hold.

The placebo effect does exist...and like the yips...it is fueled by the mind expecting a particular result. In medical drug trials, not only will you see people "get better" with the administration of sugar pills...they'll often report SIDE-EFFECTS from those same sugar pills. Driven entirely by what the patient EXPECTS to happen to them.

Consider it this way. Any physical cues or habits that the yippy putter has are like the stem and leaves of a weed. The pattern of negative thinking, negative expectation and fear are the ROOT of the weed. Hacking away at the stem and the leaves will make the weed go away for awhile. But as long as the root is intact, it will eventually grow back.

The only way to kill the weed for good, is to go after the root. But of course going after the stem and leaves---along with the root---kills the weed that much faster.

[Dire Wolf]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1354895278' post='6032829']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354890878' post='6032425']
Really? So simplified mechanics don't make mechanical execution easier? The "placebo effect" doesn't also exist?

What if anchoring, in part, removes some physical variable that was causing psychological confusion and dread? Then the physical change is creating psychological change.

I know quite a bit about psychology and the yips. If these items/techniques didn't work in SOME way, they wouldn't be used by players looking for this exact fix. You can argue that it's temporary or not a "magic bullet" but that doesn't matter. Something doesn't need to work 100% of the time to still create issues.
[/quote]

Simplified mechanics improve consistency...but that is a different problem than the yips. Such mechanics may prevent the missing of lots of short putts that gives rise to the yips....but (by itself) won't cure them once they've taken hold.

The placebo effect does exist...and like the yips...it is fueled by the mind expecting a particular result. In medical drug trials, not only will you see people "get better" with the administration of sugar pills...they'll often report SIDE-EFFECTS from those same sugar pills. Driven entirely by what the patient EXPECTS to happen to them.

Consider it this way. Any physical cues or habits that the yippy putter has are like the stem and leaves of a weed. The pattern of negative thinking, negative expectation and fear are the ROOT of the weed. Hacking away at the stem and the leaves will make the weed go away for awhile. But as long as the root is intact, it will eventually grow back.

The only way to kill the weed for good, is to go after the root. But of course going after the stem and leaves---along with the root---kills the weed that much faster.
[/quote]


[b]Why am I talking to someone who denies anchoring helps the yips, and another guy who says he needs anchoring to fix the yips, in the same thread?[/b]

/headscratch

If someone with the yips has positive reinforcement from the simplified putting mechanics and results of an anchored putter, [b]he can reprogram his brain to EXPECT to make short putts (or at least not FEAR missing them so much), which short-circuits the yip trigger. [/b] In the cases where he misses, he has a large body of positive reinforcement from the made putts with the new putter/method to overcome or explain the miss, and the yips do not "take hold" again.

Now, per the "no magic bullet" angle, this is not a guarantee to never miss a makeable putt and never fear the outcome of a putt. But it is a huge potential band-aid for yippy putters, and I don't see how anyone can try and parse away that fact, as evidenced by testimonial and performance of innumerable pros and amateurs.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354896563' post='6032979']
[b]Why am I talking to someone who denies anchoring helps the yips, and another guy who says he needs anchoring to fix the yips, in the same thread?[/b]

/headscratch

If someone with the yips has positive reinforcement from the simplified putting mechanics and results of an anchored putter, [b]he can reprogram his brain to EXPECT to make short putts (or at least not FEAR missing them so much), which short-circuits the yip trigger. [/b]In the cases where he misses, he has a large body of positive reinforcement from the made putts with the new putter/method to overcome or explain the miss, and the yips do not "take hold" again.

Now, per the "no magic bullet" angle, this is not a guarantee to never miss a makeable putt and never fear the outcome of a putt. But it is a huge potential band-aid for yippy putters, and I don't see how anyone can try and parse away that fact, as evidenced by testimonial and performance of innumerable pros and amateurs.
[/quote]

We're not that far apart.

The physical change is often HELPFUL but is not [b][i]SUFFICIENT[/i][/b] to cure the yips by itself. The pattern of thinking, emotion, and expectation has to change or the yips will simply comeback. Physical changes (used properly) can speed up that change, but are not sufficient to induce that change by themselves.

Imo, the best examples of how the yips really work aren't in golf...they're in baseaball. Infielders (catchers especially) will often develop the "throwing yips" on short, routine throws where there is a high expectation of success.

The best example of this in the last generation was former LA Dodgers' second baseman Steve Sax. Sax was for lionshare of his career an all-star, Gold Glove second-baseman. One of the best of his generation. But late in his career he developed the yips on throws to first. Any difficult throw...especially throws that required him to simply react-and-throw (like the pivot on the double-play) he could throw absolute strikes to first base (or anywhere else on the field).

But give him a hard hit ground ball or one-hopper....where he had time to stop and THINK about how he was going to throw the ball and what MIGHT happen on the throw...he was liable to throw the ball in the dirt or throw the ball so wildly that first baseman had no chance to make a catch. Sometimes throwing the up into the stands and completely out of play.

Even though I knew nothing of the yips at the time (late 1980s), I knew enough about baseball to realize that the foundation of his throwing problem was that he had lost the trust in it to just simply THROW, and accept the result. Anytime he had time to think about his throwing, you knew he was in trouble.

Dealing with the physical cues and habits that people associate with negative outcomes IS helpful...but ONLY helpful to the extent that it helps to unravel the bad mental habits that they are tied to. Simply changing the physical without addressing the underlying mental will not produce a lasting solution.

I speak with the confidence I do because I battled a case of the driver yips that nearly ran me out of golf. For nearly two seasons, any time I stepped on to a golf course and tried to hit a teed up wood club...I'd top it. I quickly went from a player who regularly threatened 80 (and once shot a 75), to one that couldn't break 110 with a hammer.

...and I won't tell you the kind of panic that resulted anytime I stepped on to a tee box with any kind of forced carry...

Now a swing flaw led to the misses that eventually caused my case of the yips...but what maintained it was the fear, panic, embarrassment, physical tension, and constant mental images of my topping my next tee shot that CEMENTED the yips into place.

What fixed them was changing the swing flaw...[i][b]but primarily dealing with the bad mental habits that grew up around the flaw.[/b][/i] I had to discipline my mind to focus on the good results...and forget the bad ones. To (when stepping up for a tee shot) to focus on what I WANTED to happen, rather than letting my mind run wild with fearful images of what MIGHT happen.

The yips are fixed..[i][b].but even to this day...If I start letting negative images creep back into my head the same mis-hits start to occur. Even after the swing change.[/b][/i] Thats when I stop...calm myself down...and realize that its a cue that I've let my mental game get sloppy.

[nbg352]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354896563' post='6032979']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1354895278' post='6032829']
[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354890878' post='6032425']
Really? So simplified mechanics don't make mechanical execution easier? The "placebo effect" doesn't also exist?

What if anchoring, in part, removes some physical variable that was causing psychological confusion and dread? Then the physical change is creating psychological change.

I know quite a bit about psychology and the yips. If these items/techniques didn't work in SOME way, they wouldn't be used by players looking for this exact fix. You can argue that it's temporary or not a "magic bullet" but that doesn't matter. Something doesn't need to work 100% of the time to still create issues.
[/quote]

Simplified mechanics improve consistency...but that is a different problem than the yips. Such mechanics may prevent the missing of lots of short putts that gives rise to the yips....but (by itself) won't cure them once they've taken hold.

The placebo effect does exist...and like the yips...it is fueled by the mind expecting a particular result. In medical drug trials, not only will you see people "get better" with the administration of sugar pills...they'll often report SIDE-EFFECTS from those same sugar pills. Driven entirely by what the patient EXPECTS to happen to them.

Consider it this way. Any physical cues or habits that the yippy putter has are like the stem and leaves of a weed. The pattern of negative thinking, negative expectation and fear are the ROOT of the weed. Hacking away at the stem and the leaves will make the weed go away for awhile. But as long as the root is intact, it will eventually grow back.

The only way to kill the weed for good, is to go after the root. But of course going after the stem and leaves---along with the root---kills the weed that much faster.
[/quote]


[b]Why am I talking to someone who denies anchoring helps the yips, and another guy who says he needs anchoring to fix the yips, in the same thread?[/b]

/headscratch

If someone with the yips has positive reinforcement from the simplified putting mechanics and results of an anchored putter, [b]he can reprogram his brain to EXPECT to make short putts (or at least not FEAR missing them so much), which short-circuits the yip trigger. [/b]In the cases where he misses, he has a large body of positive reinforcement from the made putts with the new putter/method to overcome or explain the miss, and the yips do not "take hold" again.

Now, per the "no magic bullet" angle, this is not a guarantee to never miss a makeable putt and never fear the outcome of a putt. But it is a huge potential band-aid for yippy putters, and I don't see how anyone can try and parse away that fact, as evidenced by testimonial and performance of innumerable pros and amateurs.
[/quote]
Does Bernhard Langer know about this sure cure?

[mikpga]

1. Unfortunate they waited so long to address this.
2. Glad they finally did.
3. Will not negatively effect the growth of the game.

[mikpga]

1. Unfortunate they waited so long to address this.
2. Glad they finally did.
3. Will not negatively effect the growth of the game.

[swingdoc80]

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1354904355' post='6033797']
1. Unfortunate they waited so long to address this.
2. Glad they finally did.
3. Will not negatively effect the growth of the game.
[/quote]

1.unfortunate that they ever did and then decided to focus on the one thing that has made the least difference in the past forty years
2. Stupid decision
3. It already has I'm afraid

[mikpga]

For those who think it will negatively effect the game...lets hear some examples...

[Sean2]

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1354904355' post='6033797']
1. Unfortunate they waited so long to address this.
2. Glad they finally did.
3. Will not negatively effect the growth of the game.
[/quote]
That sums it up nicely.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Dire Wolf' timestamp='1354895153' post='6032821']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1354892815' post='6032587']
[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1354891376' post='6032465']
It's gotta be one of the most unproductive threads in wrx history.

Even the ones during TW scandal were more beneficial to the humankind.
[/quote]

With posts like this, I can't help but wonder why!!!
[/quote]

What is a discussion thread on the internet supposed to "produce" anyway? Consensus? Never happens.

Discussion? Oh yeah, that's right. ;p
[/quote]

A thread should produce perspectives, but depending on the topic, experience, that's about it. Arguing over who's right or wrong is a total waste of energy, not to mention server space.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1354906961' post='6034075']
For those who think it will negatively effect the game...lets hear some examples...
[/quote]

The last time I tried to answer a question like that:

1. It was demanded that I "prove" that this things would occur.

2. Then I was criticized for my inability to "prove" things that would happen in response to a rule change that won't even go into effect for another three years.

[mikpga]

Kellygreen, I will go back and read your posts. Kinda lost interest in the back and forth. Just wanted to hear some examples.

[swingdoc80]

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1354906961' post='6034075']
For those who think it will negatively effect the game...lets hear some examples...
[/quote]

Competition entries will go down, I know several players who have already cancelled memberships to clubs thus losing competition entry fees and. Pro shop sales,

A few people with physical difficulties where the longer putters have enabled them to keep practicing and playing will quit or again cancel club memberships thus losing income for the clubs.

It also will have the effect of spoiling the enjoyment for lots of people, it will be very difficult for people to go back to an inferior method of putting, not because they get any illegal advantage with a longer putter but because, quite simply because they prefer it.

For example I will be cancelling my society subscriptions and subscriptions to the local golf unions whose scratch events I frequent as I would not be able to play in the events thus losing them income (and I am not alone in doing this).

On the retail side of things it has already created several disputes which I have mentioned earlier so will not repeat here.

The bottom line is the decision has benefitted nobody and has damaged several.

[nbg352]

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1354908428' post='6034227']
Kellygreen, I will go back and read your posts. Kinda lost interest in the back and forth. Just wanted to hear some examples.
[/quote]
Any response to this would be purely subjective and impossible to prove.
But the flamers would have a heyday with it anyway, so why bother?
Suffice to say, there are many. closer to its pulse than I am, who firmly believe golf will suffer. And, even if they say it without providing their idea of proof, ( they can't, it hasn't happened yet), I'm more inclined to take to their point of view than that of any amateur opinion to the contrary, here.