Did Hogan swing low and left?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1356115929' post='6101321']
"did Hogan swing low and left?" In my view the answer is a qualified yes. Hogan's hand path through impact was lower and more left than most players

I don't see him throwing the clubhead anywhere. The video of him above where he demonstrated a practice swing (feel swing) is less than full power.
[/quote]

I agree it's lower than most players, because most players try to throw down the plane line. But he's much higher than the parametric acceleration guys and most one-planers, who are trying to make the hands follow a tight circle around their hips through impact and bending the plane line.

The feel swing is demoing something - if it's not the full release of the club head being thrown past the hands, just what feel is he trying to show there, a pivot stall, which he doesn't do in the real swing? Why would he do that?

[dairic]

"did Hogan swing low and left?" In my view the answer is a qualified yes. Hogan's hand path through impact was lower and more left than most players

 

I don't see him throwing the clubhead anywhere. The video of him above where he demonstrated a practice swing (feel swing) is less than full power.

 

I agree it's lower than most players, because most players try to throw down the plane line. But he's much higher than the parametric acceleration guys and most one-planers, who are trying to make the hands follow a tight circle around their hips through impact and bending the plane line.

 

The feel swing is demoing something - if it's not the full release of the club head being thrown past the hands, just what feel is he trying to show there, a pivot stall, which he doesn't do in the real swing? Why would he do that?

 

I agree MJ...he's going for a full release based on what you posted. In addition, what's the meaning of his hand action in his concentration drill if not trying to release them?

 

 

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1356122997' post='6101803']

That move got nothing to do with his real move at the end of the video or also nothing what he told us in 5L .. bowing the wrist at impact and keep on doing that. That wrist flip in slo mo happens just because his right shoulder stays in its position.

Always remember he was fighting with hook and he found the way to win that fight. Flipping the CH like that is not the way.
[/quote]

It's got everything to do with the real move because he fully releases the club head. It's not a wrist flip - the left wrist bends well after impact, because the club head was fully released.

Yes, he was fighting a hook, but didn't want to give up the power that any type of hold-off move costs, which is why he bent his irons open 3 degs, fully released the club head, and finished with high hands instead of swinging low/left.

[MizunoJoe]

"did Hogan swing low and left?" In my view the answer is a qualified yes. Hogan's hand path through impact was lower and more left than most players

 

I don't see him throwing the clubhead anywhere. The video of him above where he demonstrated a practice swing (feel swing) is less than full power.

 

I agree it's lower than most players, because most players try to throw down the plane line. But he's much higher than the parametric acceleration guys and most one-planers, who are trying to make the hands follow a tight circle around their hips through impact and bending the plane line.

 

The feel swing is demoing something - if it's not the full release of the club head being thrown past the hands, just what feel is he trying to show there, a pivot stall, which he doesn't do in the real swing? Why would he do that?

 

I agree MJ...he's going for a full release based on what you posted. In addition, what's the meaning of his hand action in his concentration drill if not trying to release them?

 

 

 

Exactly - good point, yet more clear evidence of a full release and no hold-off action.

[dairic]

Here's a few good quotes:

[i]"I tried all the conventional cures - opening the stance, altering the grip, using more left arm and cutting the ball. They all worked, but in the process they cut down my distance by five to 10 yards. Five yards is a long way. You can't give anybody five yards"[/i]

[i]"The two adjustmends had transformed pronation into a bonanza for me. They were so delicate that no one would ever think of looking for them - and I certainly was not going to tell anybody where to look. The first was in the grip. I moved my left hand one-eighth to one forth inch to the left so that the thumb was almost directly on top of the shaft. The second adjustment, which is the real meat of the "secret", was nothin more than a twist or cocking of the left wrist."[/i]

[i]"At this point the swing had been made hook proof. [b][u]No matter how much wrist I put into the downswing, no matter how hard I swung or how hard I tried to roll into and through the ball[/u][/b], the face could not close fast enough to become absolutely square at the moment of impact. The result was that lovely, long-fading ball which is a highly effective weapon on any golf course"[/i]

Ben Hogan did not hold anything back !!

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1356127421' post='6102091']
Here's a few good quotes:

[i]"I tried all the conventional cures - opening the stance, altering the grip, using more left arm and cutting the ball. They all worked, but in the process they cut down my distance by five to 10 yards. Five yards is a long way. You can't give anybody five yards"[/i]

[i]"The two adjustmends had transformed pronation into a bonanza for me. They were so delicate that no one would ever think of looking for them - and I certainly was not going to tell anybody where to look. The first was in the grip. I moved my left hand one-eighth to one forth inch to the left so that the thumb was almost directly on top of the shaft. The second adjustment, which is the real meant of the "secret", was nothin more than a twist or cocking of the left wrist."[/i]

[i]"At this point the swing had been made hook proof. [b][u]No matter how much wrist I put into the downswing, no matter how hard I swung or how hard I tried to roll into and through the ball[/u][/b], the face could not close fast enough to become absolutely square at the moment of impact. The result was that lovely, long-fading ball which is a highly effective weapon on any golf course"[/i]

Ben Hogan did not hold anything back !!
[/quote]

I don't recall ever seeing those - thanks. Pretty convincing words from the man himself!

[ALIF]

I always have felt after reading his book that there was NO hold off move. He was fully releasing. He was hitting it with 3 right hands. Now, he wasn't flipping or scooping it, just fully realeasing the club head. He went left for sure. Did he go low also? Low relative to what? The ground? NO. Rickie Fowler? Yes!

[ej002]

MJ - are you throwing out a red herring with that practice swing video? Armswing with no core action, of course the club head passes the hands. Come on.

[TeeAce]

This, once again starts to be funny, or something like that. Guy with totally bent right wrist at impact was fully releasing the club face?? Really? Guy who told us we should bow our wrist at impact instead of cupping it was fully releasing? The guy who's hands were disappearing behind him from DTL view way before club head was flipping?

Enough for me... thanks.

By the way... I offered free possibility to people see some 3D measurements with high speed videos of some great shots where I could explain those things. There was two who called. Both were pros who are not very active here. What it tells? Are people here to learn things and see something new... or for some other reasons.

Happy holidays to everyone, I'm out again.

[Pinsplitter59]

I once almost joined a weird cult.
Scares me sh*tless to think of it,
will never do it again, no matter how enticing the offer.

[dairic]

This, once again starts to be funny, or something like that. Guy with totally bent right wrist at impact was fully releasing the club face?? Really? Guy who told us we should bow our wrist at impact instead of cupping it was fully releasing? The guy who's hands were disappearing behind him from DTL view way before club head was flipping?

 

Enough for me... thanks.

 

By the way... I offered free possibility to people see some 3D measurements with high speed videos of some great shots where I could explain those things. There was two who called. Both were pros who are not very active here. What it tells? Are people here to learn things and see something new... or for some other reasons.

 

Happy holidays to everyone, I'm out again.

 

Do you view bowing at impact as a static position he tried to maintain around impact or was it part of a dynamic motion through impact?

 

Based on everything he's written I believe it the later. Also, flipping is not the same as releasing. Secret along with his pivot driving so hard gives the illusion of him holding off his release. He left us clues in his writings about what his intentions were and he's been clear in various articles etc that he's trying to release that thing.

 

[tylerdurden]

I want to contribute my $0.02 without damaging too many reader's brain cells.

I general, I think most people who commented on this thread agree with each other even if they don't realize it.

Low and left is a relative concept IMO. It just means Hogan's hands exited more low and left than a someone like Ricky. IMO, Low and left has nothing to do with intent. When I say Hogan has a low left release, I'm literally just describing a DTL picture of Hogan immediately post impact.

So by that definition, yes, Hogan is pretty obviously lower and lefter than Ricky and most others.

Now, in terms of WHY Hogan appears low and left, IMO it's primarily because of his amazing pivot and his arms being connected to and dominated by his pivot. Along with the shallow approach of the club.

Basically a, to appear "low and left" do the following: 1- approach the ball shallow at P6 with arms in front/pitch right elbow 2- be/get on your left pivot point, 3- rotate super hard with the pivot and without any form of stall, while covering the ball.

Do that and you will appear low and left. Notice there was no low and left intent. And notice connection is pretty much automatic at that point. That's why you have some guys who are super connected the whole way with that release appearance (Hogan) and others who are very disconnected who get connected when it matters as a result of those conditions (Carl Petterson maybe? DToms?)

Also, not to bring slicefixer into this, but he is doesn't teach a hold off. And the release is just a product of everything that happens before it.

TeeAce, I'd like to talk to you about this on skype to hear your thoughts. Maybe you have that hold off wall drill so people can feel the right pivot?

But when you swing with speed, you can't hold the club off long post impact. If you pivot hard enough you'll get the woodland/hogan look, but even with those guys, the club gets fully released at some point, its just the pivot dominates the club until post impact.

Sorry I was hoping to organize my thoughts better but I did a crummy job.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1356192088' post='6104345']


TeeAce, I'd like to talk to you about this on skype to hear your thoughts. Maybe you have that hold off wall drill so people can feel the right pivot?

But when you swing with speed, you can't hold the club off long post impact. If you pivot hard enough you'll get the woodland/hogan look, but even with those guys, the club gets fully released at some point, its just the pivot dominates the club until post impact.

Sorry I was hoping to organize my thoughts better but I did a crummy job.
[/quote]

You are right on money here. Club releases anyway because of inner circle deceleration and by inertia. It's not active, it's just have to happen but it happens later than when you let it release to the impact.

Dairic: the bowing motion is dynamic motion that continues to that direction all the time. If you look carefully the last smaller image you see left wrist still in PF and the arm has rotated only with body. If the upper end of that arm would be fixed, it means there is arm or forearm rotation, but as it's not it stays pretty at the same orientation relative to the shoulder line.

What is missing in 5L is that left path of hands but we can see it in many of his videos and photos. So when we put that bowing and left hand path together we can get pretty close to what he also had to do to prevent hooking.

[ALIF]

+1 Teeace. He is fully releasing the club head. It's a by-product of his swing. He releases naturally b/c he pivots so hard and I agree his full release may have been later than others. I think we are all agreeing here, it's just that the terminology gets us confused as to what each other is saying at times.

[dairic]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1356192992' post='6104397']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1356192088' post='6104345']
TeeAce, I'd like to talk to you about this on skype to hear your thoughts. Maybe you have that hold off wall drill so people can feel the right pivot?

But when you swing with speed, you can't hold the club off long post impact. If you pivot hard enough you'll get the woodland/hogan look, but even with those guys, the club gets fully released at some point, its just the pivot dominates the club until post impact.

Sorry I was hoping to organize my thoughts better but I did a crummy job.
[/quote]

You are right on money here. Club releases anyway because of inner circle deceleration and by inertia. It's not active, it's just have to happen but it happens later than when you let it release to the impact.

Dairic: the bowing motion is dynamic motion that continues to that direction all the time. If you look carefully the last smaller image you see left wrist still in PF and the arm has rotated only with body. If the upper end of that arm would be fixed, it means there is arm or forearm rotation, but as it's not it stays pretty at the same orientation relative to the shoulder line.

What is missing in 5L is that left path of hands but we can see it in many of his videos and photos. So when we put that bowing and left hand path together we can get pretty close to what he also had to do to prevent hooking.
[/quote]

Sorry Tee but I have to respectfully disagree that the changes in the graphic is due to shoulder rotation only as opposed to post impact supination. I've seen nothing in anything that Ben Hogan has written that that's what he intended. That would be a static hand/wrist position being dragged by shoulder rotation. In other words, a held off release. In my opinion, its very clear that the palm of his hand in the graphic is more skyward looking after impact than before or at impact.

In 5 Lesson's he says: [i]"During this climactic part of the swing, the left wrist and the back of the left hand begin to supinate very slightly - that is to turn from a position where the palm is down to a position where the palm is up. [u]They continue to supinate throughout the rest of the swing"[/u][/i]

This supinating action has the affect of closing the club face, so this action will promote a hook. This is what Ben Hogan promoted in five lessons...a hooking ball flight....and not a fading ball flight.

His fading ball flight is the result of other compensations he added.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1356204533' post='6104937']


In 5 Lesson's he says: [i]"During this climactic part of the swing, the left wrist and the back of the left hand begin to supinate very slightly - that is to turn from a position where the palm is down to a position where the palm is up. [u]They continue to supinate throughout the rest of the swing"[/u][/i]

This supinating action has the affect of closing the club face, so this action will promote a hook. This is what Ben Hogan promoted in five lessons...a hooking ball flight....and not a fading ball flight.

His fading ball flight is the result of other compensations he added.
[/quote]

Here we go back to the start Just talked few days ago with one great teacher from US once again how Hogan used wrong word there and has confused so many during the years.

Hogan never talked about hooking ball flight but boring and low start. It's all there in pages 101-105.

But you are also right that normally that bowing motion (palmar flexion is the right term instead of supination) closes the face, but it's really much dependent of grip. And not only how strong the grip is, but also how perpendicular or linear it is relative to the shaft (long / short thumb + fingers /palm) Then there is few adjustments and few other moves that balances it and really prevents the face close too much.

Hogan was genius in that area and understanding that connection and bowing are IMO wide road when getting closer his action

[dairic]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1356207059' post='6105053']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1356204533' post='6104937']
In 5 Lesson's he says: [i]"During this climactic part of the swing, the left wrist and the back of the left hand begin to supinate very slightly - that is to turn from a position where the palm is down to a position where the palm is up. [u]They continue to supinate throughout the rest of the swing"[/u][/i]

This supinating action has the affect of closing the club face, so this action will promote a hook. This is what Ben Hogan promoted in five lessons...a hooking ball flight....and not a fading ball flight.

His fading ball flight is the result of other compensations he added.
[/quote]

Here we go back to the start Just talked few days ago with one great teacher from US once again how Hogan used wrong word there and has confused so many during the years.

Hogan never talked about hooking ball flight but boring and low start. It's all there in pages 101-105.

But you are also right that normally that bowing motion (palmar flexion is the right term instead of supination) closes the face, but it's really much dependent of grip. And not only how strong the grip is, but also how perpendicular or linear it is relative to the shaft (long / short thumb + fingers /palm) Then there is few adjustments and few other moves that balances it and really prevents the face close too much.

Hogan was genius in that area and understanding that connection and bowing are IMO wide road when getting closer his action
[/quote]

yes but is it a boring ball flight that hooks or fades?

Have a read of the first paragraph in his 1955 Life magazine article. He describes there what kind of ball flight proper fundamentals should give.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1356207420' post='6105067']


yes but is it a boring ball flight that hooks or fades?

Have a read of the first paragraph in his 1955 Life magazine article. He describes there what kind of ball flight proper fundamentals should give.
[/quote]

It can do both, that's the secret. How to hit low fade with bowing.

And I really like this now because for me it seems that first time we are getting close... really close and when we agree what happened, we can start really to talk about how and how to achieve it.

[PingG10guy]

"did Hogan swing low and left?" In my view the answer is a qualified yes. Hogan's hand path through impact was lower and more left than most players

 

I don't see him throwing the clubhead anywhere. The video of him above where he demonstrated a practice swing (feel swing) is less than full power.

 

I agree it's lower than most players, because most players try to throw down the plane line. But he's much higher than the parametric acceleration guys and most one-planers, who are trying to make the hands follow a tight circle around their hips through impact and bending the plane line.

 

The feel swing is demoing something - if it's not the full release of the club head being thrown past the hands, just what feel is he trying to show there, a pivot stall, which he doesn't do in the real swing? Why would he do that?

 

I agree MJ...he's going for a full release based on what you posted. In addition, what's the meaning of his hand action in his concentration drill if not trying to release them?

 

 

 

Exactly - good point, yet more clear evidence of a full release and no hold-off action.

 

Yep tons of PA3. Minimum hand movement and max Ch movement. Beautiful pics

[dpb5031]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1356192088' post='6104345']
I want to contribute my $0.02 without damaging too many reader's brain cells.

I general, I think most people who commented on this thread agree with each other even if they don't realize it.

Low and left is a relative concept IMO. It just means Hogan's hands exited more low and left than a someone like Ricky. IMO, Low and left has nothing to do with intent. When I say Hogan has a low left release, I'm literally just describing a DTL picture of Hogan immediately post impact.

So by that definition, yes, Hogan is pretty obviously lower and lefter than Ricky and most others.

Now, in terms of WHY Hogan appears low and left, IMO it's primarily because of his amazing pivot and his arms being connected to and dominated by his pivot. Along with the shallow approach of the club.

Basically a, to appear "low and left" do the following: 1- approach the ball shallow at P6 with arms in front/pitch right elbow 2- be/get on your left pivot point, 3- rotate super hard with the pivot and without any form of stall, while covering the ball.

Do that and you will appear low and left. Notice there was no low and left intent. And notice connection is pretty much automatic at that point. That's why you have some guys who are super connected the whole way with that release appearance (Hogan) and others who are very disconnected who get connected when it matters as a result of those conditions (Carl Petterson maybe? DToms?)

Also, not to bring slicefixer into this, but he is doesn't teach a hold off. And the release is just a product of everything that happens before it.

TeeAce, I'd like to talk to you about this on skype to hear your thoughts. Maybe you have that hold off wall drill so people can feel the right pivot?

But when you swing with speed, you can't hold the club off long post impact. If you pivot hard enough you'll get the woodland/hogan look, but even with those guys, the club gets fully released at some point, its just the pivot dominates the club until post impact.

Sorry I was hoping to organize my thoughts better but I did a crummy job.
[/quote]

Right on the money Tyler! The low/left appearance is relative, and is a by-product of the other conditions you mentioned.

I also agree with TeeAce...the club does release fully, but it is due to forces, not intentional rolling or supination at the ball.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1356148419' post='6103235']
MJ - are you throwing out a red herring with that practice swing video? Armswing with no core action, of course the club head passes the hands. Come on.
[/quote]

That's not a practice swing - he's demonstrating the feel of full release, and it's not a flip as some here keep saying, just the natural consequence of the left wrist bending as the club head overtakes well after impact, if there is no holding off. The club head passes his hands in a full swing also, just not as dramatically as the demo, because of the full pivot, as seen here at :46 as the hands come out from behind the left shoulder -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1356215116' post='6105427']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1356192088' post='6104345']
I want to contribute my $0.02 without damaging too many reader's brain cells.

I general, I think most people who commented on this thread agree with each other even if they don't realize it.

Low and left is a relative concept IMO. It just means Hogan's hands exited more low and left than a someone like Ricky. IMO, Low and left has nothing to do with intent. When I say Hogan has a low left release, I'm literally just describing a DTL picture of Hogan immediately post impact.

So by that definition, yes, Hogan is pretty obviously lower and lefter than Ricky and most others.

Now, in terms of WHY Hogan appears low and left, IMO it's primarily because of his amazing pivot and his arms being connected to and dominated by his pivot. Along with the shallow approach of the club.

Basically a, to appear "low and left" do the following: 1- approach the ball shallow at P6 with arms in front/pitch right elbow 2- be/get on your left pivot point, 3- rotate super hard with the pivot and without any form of stall, while covering the ball.

Do that and you will appear low and left. Notice there was no low and left intent. And notice connection is pretty much automatic at that point. That's why you have some guys who are super connected the whole way with that release appearance (Hogan) and others who are very disconnected who get connected when it matters as a result of those conditions (Carl Petterson maybe? DToms?)

Also, not to bring slicefixer into this, but he is doesn't teach a hold off. And the release is just a [b]product of everything that happens before it[/b].

TeeAce, I'd like to talk to you about this on skype to hear your thoughts. Maybe you have that hold off wall drill so people can feel the right pivot?

But when you swing with speed, you can't hold the club off long post impact. If you pivot hard enough you'll get the woodland/hogan look, but even with those guys, the club gets fully released at some point, its just the pivot dominates the club until post impact.

Sorry I was hoping to organize my thoughts better but I did a crummy job.
[/quote]

Right on the money Tyler! The low/left appearance is relative, and is a by-product of the other conditions you mentioned.

I also agree with TeeAce...the club does release fully, but it is due to forces, not intentional rolling or supination at the ball.
[/quote]

lol TD I said that...and said it was relative earlier and the only way to be realistically low and left was to short arc aka rec0ck the lead wrist as fast as possible. ie specialty shots.

But Hogan was definitely more low and more left than [b]most[/b]. Look at his stance/posture. Most guys would be crazy steep with that address position. The only type of swing I can think of that would look more/similarly low left to Hogan is a CP cut shot. some of the Mike Mcnary stuff comes to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhJsr7eQXEc

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1356215476' post='6105437']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1356148419' post='6103235']
MJ - are you throwing out a red herring with that practice swing video? Armswing with no core action, of course the club head passes the hands. Come on.
[/quote]

That's not a practice swing - he's demonstrating the feel of full release, and it's not a flip as some here keep saying, just the natural consequence of the left wrist bending as the club head overtakes well after impact, if there is no holding off. The club head passes his hands in a full swing also, just not as dramatically as the demo, because of the full pivot, as seen here at :46 as the hands come out from behind the left shoulder -

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg[/media]
[/quote]

Yep. Lose PA2, lose PA3 then swivel to the hinge.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1356215116' post='6105427']
I also agree with TeeAce...the club does release fully, but it is due to forces, not intentional rolling or supination at the ball.
[/quote]

Yes it fully releases, but due to the obvious forces generated by the upper and lower body pivot, and not some mysterious forces resulting from some sort of hold-off effort as T claims. And I haven't seen any claims in this thread that he intentionally rolls the left wrist through impact, although in the Hogan quotes above provided by dairic, he says he could roll as hard as possible through impact, and still not close the face fast enough to worry about hooking because of the weakened grip and left wrist manipulations.

[ALIF]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1356216638' post='6105507']
[quote name='dpb5031' timestamp='1356215116' post='6105427']
I also agree with TeeAce...the club does release fully, but it is due to forces, not intentional rolling or supination at the ball.
[/quote]

Yes it fully releases, but due to the obvious forces generated by the upper and lower body pivot, and not some mysterious forces resulting from some sort of hold-off effort as T claims. And I haven't seen any claims in this thread that he intentionally rolls the left wrist through impact, although in the Hogan quotes above provided by dairic, he says he could roll as hard as possible through impact, and still not close the face fast enough to worry about hooking because of the weakened grip and left wrist manipulations.
[/quote]

It's funny you mention this. When I first read Hogan's book I was about 16. I read that and thought ok, weak grip, cupped at top then roll the wrists as hard and as fast as I could. I couldn't hook it. I used to think that's what he did when I was a kid. Lol.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1356218257' post='6105573']

It's funny you mention this. When I first read Hogan's book I was about 16. I read that and thought ok, weak grip, cupped at top then roll the wrists as hard and as fast as I could. I couldn't hook it. I used to think that's what he did when I was a kid. Lol.
[/quote]

And that's what Hogan thought he did when you were a kid.

[Crab Daddy]

I don't see how the left wrist can rotate when the right elbow is that tight to the body at impact. From DTL, you can see the index finger-thumb gap of the right hand at impact. Post-impact, the right arm disconnects from the torso and the arms rotate.
Where am I off base there?


Certainly, he releases fully, but no pro is fully released at impact. You want the cub to be accelerating through impact, correct?
There is a Palmer-like character to his finish with irons (minus the head bobbing). Is that not from the arm connection maintained through impact? The arms moving with the body, leftward initially, then up once the right arm disconnects from the torso? Woods (+long irons?) move upward diagonally because of the longer swing and greater force created mean that the arms' connections are lost sooner and the arms rotate faster.

[ej002]

MJ - agreed, I must have missed your point.

Is T really advocating a hold off or a delay of the full release? big difference.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='Crab Daddy' timestamp='1356224813' post='6105915']
I don't see how the left wrist can rotate when the right elbow is that tight to the body at impact. From DTL, you can see the index finger-thumb gap of the right hand at impact. Post-impact, the right arm disconnects from the torso and the arms rotate.
Where am I off base there?

Certainly, he releases fully, but no pro is fully released at impact. You want the cub to be accelerating through impact, correct?
There is a Palmer-like character to his finish with irons (minus the head bobbing). Is that not from the arm connection maintained through impact? The arms moving with the body, leftward initially, then up once the right arm disconnects from the torso? Woods (+long irons?) move upward diagonally because of the longer swing and greater force created mean that the arms' connections are lost sooner and the arms rotate faster.
[/quote]

Okay. Great observations. Misconceptions? Here's my thoughts...

Hogan's left hand is keeping the same pressures it had at address p1. The right hand lifeline comes off the club in transition so forget the thumb. Its gone.

From my personal experience if you lose the lead hand wrist c0ck before the lead hand rolls you change your armswing. At the correct rates from down the line your right elbow must move away from the right hip to hit it from the inside unless you turn faster than Hogan.

75% of what I have posted in this thread is from Dana dhalquist, iteachgolf, and lake. All info previously posted in other threads. You guys should use the search function. Hogan's business has been in the streets since 2009ish

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Crab Daddy' timestamp='1356224813' post='6105915']
I don't see how the left wrist can rotate when the right elbow is that tight to the body at impact. From DTL, you can see the index finger-thumb gap of the right hand at impact. Post-impact, the right arm disconnects from the torso and the arms rotate.
Where am I off base there?


Certainly, he releases fully, but no pro is fully released at impact. You want the cub to be accelerating through impact, correct?

[/quote]

Hogan said he COULD roll hard without hooking, but in the swings I've posted, he clearly doesn't do more than a half-roll of the arched left wrist through impact and the bent left wrist after impact proves he wasn't trying to full roll the left wrist.

From impact through ball separation, the left wrist should still be uncocking and it should not be bending, so yes, you don't want full release before or at impact. As for accelerating through impact, you try to by pivoting hard, but the velocity of the club head at separation is at best 20% lower than it was at impact, due to energy losses from the collision with the ball.