The NBA basketball thread 2013-2014

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385607769' post='8219354']
i know we've talked a lot about other players, but just going to point out that Lebron is averaging 26-7-6 and shooting 60% from the field and 48% from 3

Lebron just makes the ridiculous seem routine.

Paul George is having an awesome year, Lebron is taking a dump on PG's stats LOL.

King James....
[/quote]

I was actually talking to a friend about this tonight. KD is the 2nd best player in the league (IMO) and he's a [b]distant[/b] 2nd.

You have:

Lebron





Everyone else

[MtlJeff]

other guys that deserve some love:

Klay Thompson: 21 pts on great shooting, also covers point guards a lot. A very underrated defensive player

Arron Afflalo: 22 a game on 48% shooting with good defense, think this guy can help a contender?

Ty Lawson: 21 and 9 on 46% shooting, leading a secretly bad Denver team to over .500

Mike Conley: 19 and 6 on 48% shooting, a very good defender

Demar Derozan: 22 a game and good defense. He has been better for the Raps then Rudy Gay, he is shooting 40% from 3 but only 43% overall from the floor. Not suited to be a main guy....but he is sneaky underrated

[MtlJeff]

and OKC about to knock off SAS despite a 2-16 from my man Russell.

23pts from Reggie Jackson , 17-11 with 5 blocks from Ibaka and 12pts on 5-7 shooting from Jeremy Lamb

suck on that Bill Simmons!

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385608170' post='8219382']
other guys that deserve some love:

Klay Thompson: 21 pts on great shooting, also covers point guards a lot. A very underrated defensive player

Arron Afflalo: 22 a game on 48% shooting with good defense, think this guy can help a contender?

Ty Lawson: 21 and 9 on 46% shooting, leading a secretly bad Denver team to over .500

Mike Conley: 19 and 6 on 48% shooting, a very good defender

Demar Derozan: 22 a game and good defense. He has been better for the Raps then Rudy Gay, he is shooting 40% from 3 but only 43% overall from the floor. Not suited to be a main guy....but he is sneaky underrated
[/quote]

I think Wesley Matthews could be included here too. He's averaging 17 a game on 55% shooting (50% from 3). Who saw that coming this season?!

[somaplr]

[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385587392' post='8217802']
[quote name='Sidetracked' timestamp='1385528638' post='8214416']
I think Kyrie is overrated.
[/quote]

He is.

Too often at the end of games he turns into Derrick Rose and thinks he's suppose to 1v5 instead of using his team.


He's flashy, but he is no winner.

Also injury prone.
[/quote]

Show me one clip of Derrick Rose going one on five. You are ridiculous. Lol.

So now Rose is overrated as well and doesn't "use his team"...is that what you're saying?

So Kyrie is also like Rose in that he's flashy but not a winner? I'm not sure I can ben be involved in this thread if people actually agree with this - there is just too much "fandom" going on for you to think logically.

[somaplr]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385595148' post='8218426']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385580804' post='8217256']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385512666' post='8212988']
So we did this last year and it was a fun way to pass the time.....anyone want to try their hand at Bill Simmons style trade value? I would say this is my top 10

1) Kevin Durant (Durant is signed for 3 more years and Lebron is expiring, I bet you Miami thinks harder about a straight up swap then OKC does, as insane as that is to write)
2) Lebron
3) Anthony Davis (basically signed for 4 more years at an average of 7M a year, and he also has more ceiling then anyone below him)
4) Steph Curry (signed for 4 more years at an average of 11M a year, plus he's arguably a top 5 player in the NBA)
5) Paul George (he has a max deal now, so he's paid. But you also gt a chance to have one of the best 2 way players in the league for 5 years)
6) Russell Westbrook (4 more years at 16M a year for a top 2 way player)
7) Chris Paul (better player then Russell, but older and significantly higher paid, he will make 24M when he is 33 years old but hey he is signed at least)
8) Kevin Love (max deal, but 2 more years and he's one of the league's premier offensive players)
9) James Harden (same as above except longer contract and worse defense)
10) Kyrie Irving (scary injury problems and hasn't really made his team better, but 3 more years at under 10M for an offensive force)
[/quote]

Jeff if we are following Simmons rules - Do you think if GSW or NO called about a Paul trade - they'd even answer the phone? I dont think they would. I mean, it is Donald Sterling, but I dont think they trade Paul for Curry and/or Unibrow for Paul and pieces.

If we are talking about a pure value situation, then I'd tend to agree with you. But we are talking about a trade situation.
[/quote]

I don't know, but the reverse is also true i'm pretty sure. If you are the GM of New Orleans and you get offered Paul for Davis straight up do you do it? I wouldn't

I made the argument last year that it's just really hard to gauge trade value when it comes to certain teams and certain players. I mean i agree with you, LAC would not trade CP3. But NO also wouldn't trade Davis. So i guess i just use salary as a bit of a tiebreaker there. And Paul is older, has had surgeries, and will make 24M in his nearing mid 30's.

Like how do you analyze a say, Westbrook for Paul trade? Chris Paul this season has been a better player, but the Thunder need a scorer more then a playmaker given their roster, and the Clips need a playmaker more then a scorer. Neither team would do the deal

I guess i just feel with Paul, what are you losing in those prospective trades? As the best player on his team he's never been past the second round. Plus you're paying him more then anyone else on the list. Would the Clips be much worse off with Curry? (as good as Paul has been). Plus they could use the Salary space to sign another player.
[/quote]

I think about 90% of the GMstake Chris Paul over Russ. Chris Paul scores just as much as a Russ does and way more efficiently. I mean I don't think there is even a debate who the best PG in the game is currently. Like Charles said its Chris then everyone else.

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385653144' post='8221172']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385595148' post='8218426']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385580804' post='8217256']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385512666' post='8212988']
So we did this last year and it was a fun way to pass the time.....anyone want to try their hand at Bill Simmons style trade value? I would say this is my top 10

1) Kevin Durant (Durant is signed for 3 more years and Lebron is expiring, I bet you Miami thinks harder about a straight up swap then OKC does, as insane as that is to write)
2) Lebron
3) Anthony Davis (basically signed for 4 more years at an average of 7M a year, and he also has more ceiling then anyone below him)
4) Steph Curry (signed for 4 more years at an average of 11M a year, plus he's arguably a top 5 player in the NBA)
5) Paul George (he has a max deal now, so he's paid. But you also gt a chance to have one of the best 2 way players in the league for 5 years)
6) Russell Westbrook (4 more years at 16M a year for a top 2 way player)
7) Chris Paul (better player then Russell, but older and significantly higher paid, he will make 24M when he is 33 years old but hey he is signed at least)
8) Kevin Love (max deal, but 2 more years and he's one of the league's premier offensive players)
9) James Harden (same as above except longer contract and worse defense)
10) Kyrie Irving (scary injury problems and hasn't really made his team better, but 3 more years at under 10M for an offensive force)
[/quote]

Jeff if we are following Simmons rules - Do you think if GSW or NO called about a Paul trade - they'd even answer the phone? I dont think they would. I mean, it is Donald Sterling, but I dont think they trade Paul for Curry and/or Unibrow for Paul and pieces.

If we are talking about a pure value situation, then I'd tend to agree with you. But we are talking about a trade situation.
[/quote]

I don't know, but the reverse is also true i'm pretty sure. If you are the GM of New Orleans and you get offered Paul for Davis straight up do you do it? I wouldn't

I made the argument last year that it's just really hard to gauge trade value when it comes to certain teams and certain players. I mean i agree with you, LAC would not trade CP3. But NO also wouldn't trade Davis. So i guess i just use salary as a bit of a tiebreaker there. And Paul is older, has had surgeries, and will make 24M in his nearing mid 30's.

Like how do you analyze a say, Westbrook for Paul trade? Chris Paul this season has been a better player, but the Thunder need a scorer more then a playmaker given their roster, and the Clips need a playmaker more then a scorer. Neither team would do the deal

I guess i just feel with Paul, what are you losing in those prospective trades? As the best player on his team he's never been past the second round. Plus you're paying him more then anyone else on the list. Would the Clips be much worse off with Curry? (as good as Paul has been). Plus they could use the Salary space to sign another player.
[/quote]

I think about 90% of the GMstake Chris Paul over Russ. Chris Paul scores just as much as a Russ does and way more efficiently. I mean I don't think there is even a debate who the best PG in the game is currently. Like Charles said its Chris then everyone else.
[/quote]

I tend to agree. Westbrook, throughout his career, has given you about 20-7-5 while shooting about 43%. Paul has averaged 19-10-4 while shooting it at about 47%.

And, IMO, Westbrook is more apt to make a mistake in a crucial situation than Paul is. I don't necessarily have anything to back that up, I just know I'd rather have Paul in crunch time.

[somaplr]

[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385587392' post='8217802']
[quote name='Sidetracked' timestamp='1385528638' post='8214416']
I think Kyrie is overrated.
[/quote]

He is.

Too often at the end of games he turns into Derrick Rose and thinks he's suppose to 1v5 instead of using his team.


He's flashy, but he is no winner.

Also injury prone.
[/quote]

You don't know a damn thing about basketball if you are calling a 21 yr old all-star PG that plays on a horrible horrible team "flashy but not a winner". You literally have no clue.

[CourtJester]

6-19, 16 points, 4 TO, 3 AST, 31.5% in what will be the biggest game for the Cavaliers all season.

 

All-Star baby!

 

Future best PG in the NBA!

 

Kyrie leading the Cavs to yet another top lottery pick!

 

All hail the great Kyrie Irving!

 

 

Hey at least the Cavs got the great Anthony Bennett with the 1st pick! :cheesy:

[baseballfrk8998]

6-19, 16 points, 4 TO, 3 AST, 31.5% in what will be the biggest game for the Cavaliers all season.

 

All-Star baby!

 

Future best PG in the NBA!

 

Kyrie leading the Cavs to yet another top lottery pick!

 

All hail the great Kyrie Irving!

 

 

Hey at least the Cavs got the great Anthony Bennett with the 1st pick! :cheesy:

 

You're basing all of this off of one game against Miami? Stop trolling bro.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1385653804' post='8221244']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385653144' post='8221172']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385595148' post='8218426']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385580804' post='8217256']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385512666' post='8212988']
So we did this last year and it was a fun way to pass the time.....anyone want to try their hand at Bill Simmons style trade value? I would say this is my top 10

1) Kevin Durant (Durant is signed for 3 more years and Lebron is expiring, I bet you Miami thinks harder about a straight up swap then OKC does, as insane as that is to write)
2) Lebron
3) Anthony Davis (basically signed for 4 more years at an average of 7M a year, and he also has more ceiling then anyone below him)
4) Steph Curry (signed for 4 more years at an average of 11M a year, plus he's arguably a top 5 player in the NBA)
5) Paul George (he has a max deal now, so he's paid. But you also gt a chance to have one of the best 2 way players in the league for 5 years)
6) Russell Westbrook (4 more years at 16M a year for a top 2 way player)
7) Chris Paul (better player then Russell, but older and significantly higher paid, he will make 24M when he is 33 years old but hey he is signed at least)
8) Kevin Love (max deal, but 2 more years and he's one of the league's premier offensive players)
9) James Harden (same as above except longer contract and worse defense)
10) Kyrie Irving (scary injury problems and hasn't really made his team better, but 3 more years at under 10M for an offensive force)
[/quote]

Jeff if we are following Simmons rules - Do you think if GSW or NO called about a Paul trade - they'd even answer the phone? I dont think they would. I mean, it is Donald Sterling, but I dont think they trade Paul for Curry and/or Unibrow for Paul and pieces.

If we are talking about a pure value situation, then I'd tend to agree with you. But we are talking about a trade situation.
[/quote]

I don't know, but the reverse is also true i'm pretty sure. If you are the GM of New Orleans and you get offered Paul for Davis straight up do you do it? I wouldn't

I made the argument last year that it's just really hard to gauge trade value when it comes to certain teams and certain players. I mean i agree with you, LAC would not trade CP3. But NO also wouldn't trade Davis. So i guess i just use salary as a bit of a tiebreaker there. And Paul is older, has had surgeries, and will make 24M in his nearing mid 30's.

Like how do you analyze a say, Westbrook for Paul trade? Chris Paul this season has been a better player, but the Thunder need a scorer more then a playmaker given their roster, and the Clips need a playmaker more then a scorer. Neither team would do the deal

I guess i just feel with Paul, what are you losing in those prospective trades? As the best player on his team he's never been past the second round. Plus you're paying him more then anyone else on the list. Would the Clips be much worse off with Curry? (as good as Paul has been). Plus they could use the Salary space to sign another player.
[/quote]

I think about 90% of the GMstake Chris Paul over Russ. Chris Paul scores just as much as a Russ does and way more efficiently. I mean I don't think there is even a debate who the best PG in the game is currently. Like Charles said its Chris then everyone else.
[/quote]

I tend to agree. Westbrook, throughout his career, has given you about 20-7-5 while shooting about 43%. Paul has averaged 19-10-4 while shooting it at about 47%.

And, IMO, Westbrook is more apt to make a mistake in a crucial situation than Paul is. I don't necessarily have anything to back that up, I just know I'd rather have Paul in crunch time.
[/quote]

Right now i'd say Chris Paul is a better player no question, i've posted that twice i think in the last couple of pages. But i wouldn't trade Westbrook for Paul if i was Sam Presti.

Westbrook makes less money, has less injury history and is younger. You can't really look at entire careers especially for young players, Russell was top 10 in the NBA last year in scoring, assists and steals and shot just under 45% (not great, but not as bad as you might think).

He is not off to a good start this year however. But still given what we saw last year and how bad OKC looked without him, even though i fully admit CP3 is better right now i'm not sure if 90% of the GM's would make the trade in Presti's position

[CourtJester]

6-19, 16 points, 4 TO, 3 AST, 31.5% in what will be the biggest game for the Cavaliers all season.

 

All-Star baby!

 

Future best PG in the NBA!

 

Kyrie leading the Cavs to yet another top lottery pick!

 

All hail the great Kyrie Irving!

 

 

Hey at least the Cavs got the great Anthony Bennett with the 1st pick! :cheesy:

 

You're basing all of this off of one game against Miami? Stop trolling bro.

 

His FG/3p/FT%s have gotten worse every year he's been in the league.

 

Defenses are keying in on him because they know he's going to jack up terrible shots anyway.

 

 

Like I said, he's flashy and can make SportsCenter plays, but he is no winner.

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385683533' post='8222982']
Right now i'd say Chris Paul is a better player no question, i've posted that twice i think in the last couple of pages. But i wouldn't trade Westbrook for Paul if i was Sam Presti.

Westbrook makes less money, has less injury history and is younger. You can't really look at entire careers especially for young players, Russell was top 10 in the NBA last year in scoring, assists and steals and shot just under 45% (not great, but not as bad as you might think).

He is not off to a good start this year however. But still given what we saw last year and how bad OKC looked without him, even though i fully admit CP3 is better right now i'm not sure if 90% of the GM's would make the trade in Presti's position
[/quote]

I hear what you're saying and I agree with you.

What bothers me is that Westbrook is like a psychopath on the court when things aren't going his way. I've watched a couple of his games this season and he just doesn't seem to know when to stop shooting and he goes nuts when calls don't go his way.

That said, I'm a big time OKC fan and I hope they do well. They're a lot of fun to watch as a whole. I have nothing but respect for KD. Love the way he goes about his business.

[CourtJester]

Westbrick is very emotional, which is both his curse and his gift. When things are going right he's one of the best attackers in the league. When they aren't, he loses his cool quickly which is, of course, going to impact the team negatively.


If he can ever learn to control his emotions while maintaining his passion, his game will leap to the next level.

I still maintain that Durant needs Westbrick more than Westbrick needs him as shown by the % of assisted field goalds stat I've given in the past.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1385684318' post='8223026']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385683533' post='8222982']
Right now i'd say Chris Paul is a better player no question, i've posted that twice i think in the last couple of pages. But i wouldn't trade Westbrook for Paul if i was Sam Presti.

Westbrook makes less money, has less injury history and is younger. You can't really look at entire careers especially for young players, Russell was top 10 in the NBA last year in scoring, assists and steals and shot just under 45% (not great, but not as bad as you might think).

He is not off to a good start this year however. But still given what we saw last year and how bad OKC looked without him, even though i fully admit CP3 is better right now i'm not sure if 90% of the GM's would make the trade in Presti's position
[/quote]

I hear what you're saying and I agree with you.

What bothers me is that Westbrook is like a psychopath on the court when things aren't going his way. I've watched a couple of his games this season and he just doesn't seem to know when to stop shooting and he goes nuts when calls don't go his way.

That said, I'm a big time OKC fan and I hope they do well. They're a lot of fun to watch as a whole. I have nothing but respect for KD. Love the way he goes about his business.
[/quote]

Yeah, i would say he almost always takes 2-3 shots a game he has no business taking. I think OKC would be better off on days where he is struggling with the shot a bit, to play him with Jackson more and play him off the ball, but i'm not sure they want to risk insulting him or hurting his confidence.

He's not a pure creator, he creates assists just by being explosive and sucking in coverage (what might surprise a lot of people is that when he was out, OKC's assists went down, even assists as a percentage of baskets). But that is a result of his threat as as scorer opening things up for others (Ibaka is a great example)

For Russell to make the leap , when his shot isn't falling he needs to focus on the drive and dish or using his athletisism to get guys like Lamb and Ibaka more shots. He gets into the lane at will, no reason he can't pass more when he gets in.

but i'd still rank him in basically a tie with Curry right now for 2nd at the PG spot. he is a better defender but Curry's shooting is otherwordly

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385684968' post='8223066']
[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1385684318' post='8223026']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385683533' post='8222982']
Right now i'd say Chris Paul is a better player no question, i've posted that twice i think in the last couple of pages. But i wouldn't trade Westbrook for Paul if i was Sam Presti.

Westbrook makes less money, has less injury history and is younger. You can't really look at entire careers especially for young players, Russell was top 10 in the NBA last year in scoring, assists and steals and shot just under 45% (not great, but not as bad as you might think).

He is not off to a good start this year however. But still given what we saw last year and how bad OKC looked without him, even though i fully admit CP3 is better right now i'm not sure if 90% of the GM's would make the trade in Presti's position
[/quote]

I hear what you're saying and I agree with you.

What bothers me is that Westbrook is like a psychopath on the court when things aren't going his way. I've watched a couple of his games this season and he just doesn't seem to know when to stop shooting and he goes nuts when calls don't go his way.

That said, I'm a big time OKC fan and I hope they do well. They're a lot of fun to watch as a whole. I have nothing but respect for KD. Love the way he goes about his business.
[/quote]

Yeah, i would say he almost always takes 2-3 shots a game he has no business taking. I think OKC would be better off on days where he is struggling with the shot a bit, to play him with Jackson more and play him off the ball, but i'm not sure they want to risk insulting him or hurting his confidence.

He's not a pure creator, he creates assists just by being explosive and sucking in coverage (what might surprise a lot of people is that when he was out, OKC's assists went down, even assists as a percentage of baskets). But that is a result of his threat as as scorer opening things up for others (Ibaka is a great example)

For Russell to make the leap , when his shot isn't falling he needs to focus on the drive and dish or using his athletisism to get guys like Lamb and Ibaka more shots. He gets into the lane at will, no reason he can't pass more when he gets in.

but i'd still rank him in basically a tie with Curry right now for 2nd at the PG spot. he is a better defender but Curry's shooting is otherwordly
[/quote]

Agreed 100%.

Curry is absolute blast to watch play as well. He's probably the smoothest player in the NBA IMO.

[MtlJeff]

In other news, i'm shocked at how bad the Nets have been....They are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Even without D-Will they are still playing Garnett, Pierce and Joe Johnson....4-11 is brutal. I have to think they will turn it around, but i'm shocked that even with KG they are so bad defensively, they are worse then a year ago

The east is like the French countryside during world war 1.

I feel like a team like Toronto could end up with a #3 seed. And that is a sad sad state of affairs

[MtlJeff]

6-19, 16 points, 4 TO, 3 AST, 31.5% in what will be the biggest game for the Cavaliers all season.

 

All-Star baby!

 

Future best PG in the NBA!

 

Kyrie leading the Cavs to yet another top lottery pick!

 

All hail the great Kyrie Irving!

 

 

Hey at least the Cavs got the great Anthony Bennett with the 1st pick! :cheesy:

 

You're basing all of this off of one game against Miami? Stop trolling bro.

 

His FG/3p/FT%s have gotten worse every year he's been in the league.

 

Defenses are keying in on him because they know he's going to jack up terrible shots anyway.

 

 

Like I said, he's flashy and can make SportsCenter plays, but he is no winner.

 

Court, did you see the Waiters articles today?

 

Apparently in the players only meeting they held, Waiters accused Irving of playing "buddy ball" with Tristan Thompson and freezing him out. He also said the Cavs coaches looked the other way on Irving's atrocious D while benching him for making the same mistakes on the other end

 

I mean, not that i totally trust everything Waiters says. But the Cavs are a mess right now. This is Kyrie's 3rd year in the league. The next couple of seasons are key for him. His teammates need to buy in that he is a leader and a winner, and he needs to improve on the defensive side. Waiters was not wrong about that

 

I think he has a crap-ton of potential. We shall see

[CourtJester]

6-19, 16 points, 4 TO, 3 AST, 31.5% in what will be the biggest game for the Cavaliers all season.

 

All-Star baby!

 

Future best PG in the NBA!

 

Kyrie leading the Cavs to yet another top lottery pick!

 

All hail the great Kyrie Irving!

 

 

Hey at least the Cavs got the great Anthony Bennett with the 1st pick! :cheesy:

 

You're basing all of this off of one game against Miami? Stop trolling bro.

 

His FG/3p/FT%s have gotten worse every year he's been in the league.

 

Defenses are keying in on him because they know he's going to jack up terrible shots anyway.

 

 

Like I said, he's flashy and can make SportsCenter plays, but he is no winner.

 

Court, did you see the Waiters articles today?

 

Apparently in the players only meeting they held, Waiters accused Irving of playing "buddy ball" with Tristan Thompson and freezing him out. He also said the Cavs coaches looked the other way on Irving's atrocious D while benching him for making the same mistakes on the other end

 

I mean, not that i totally trust everything Waiters says. But the Cavs are a mess right now. This is Kyrie's 3rd year in the league. The next couple of seasons are key for him. His teammates need to buy in that he is a leader and a winner, and he needs to improve on the defensive side. Waiters was not wrong about that

 

I think he has a crap-ton of potential. We shall see

 

Yea I did see that LOL.

 

Apparently the word is that Waiters and Thompson almost came to blows!

 

I think Waiters was partially right in this situation. I think the Cavs are trying to push Kyrie as "the guy" after LeBron left, so they are as Waiters puts it, looking the other way at the mistakes he often makes.

 

It doesn't help that Potato Head is a Yes Man coach whose entire career was made by LeBron, so unfortunately Kyrie is in the same bad spot as far as leadership is concerned as LeBron was.

 

I've never liked Kyrie as a player, not at Duke and not in the NBA. To me it seems he thinks the game revolves around him.

 

Maybe he's like that because someone lied to him and told him he could be the next LeBron, when what he needs to be doing is keeping his head down and his ears open.

[somaplr]

It always amazes me how everyone is an expert on this situation without ever seeing the Cavs play - I think they've been on one nationally televised game so far this year. So unless you live in Ohio, and have Fox Sports Ohio, most people have never even seen them play.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385692813' post='8223472']
It always amazes me how everyone is an expert on this situation without ever seeing the Cavs play - I think they've been on one nationally televised game so far this year. So unless you live in Ohio, and have Fox Sports Ohio, most people have never even seen them play.
[/quote]

I've watched them a couple of times this year at least. We have NBA game night on the NBA network aswell as court surfing on the score (a canadian channel). I watched their entire game against the 76ers for example and that wasn't nationally televised.

That doesn't mean i'm an expert. But i've seen them this year for sure

[somaplr]

Who said Kyrie was the Best PG in the game??? Or even the best future PG? I've never heard a respected person utter that.

For some biased person to say "he's not a winner" is complete crap. You know why? Because nobody knows.

To pick out a game against one of the best defensive teams in the game and declare that's who he is all the time - is idiocy. It's like picking out Russell going 2-16 and saying SEE SEE he's horrible. It's just troll hater )$&@

[MtlJeff]

the time i referenced was an ESPN 5 on 5 a year ago where they asked the panelists who would be the best PG 3 years from now, and i believe all 5 or 4/5 said Irving. I didn't mean that as a shot though, i've watched Kyrie a lot and his offensive game is amazing. Also i think the ESPN 5 on 5 guys say a lot of dumb stuff, but frankly i actually do think if Kyrie is the best PG in the game 3 years from now it would not surprise me. He just needs to improve on D and get out of his moderate shooting slump. I'm an unabashed Westbrook lover but Kyrie has shot 40% since the all star break last season, which is sub-Westbrookian levels.

I like Kyrie, i still had him 10th in my trade value

[CourtJester]

I've had League Pass for years now, and I assumed most posters in this thread had it also.

Kyrie has won [u][b]29.4%[/b][/u] of his games since coming into the league.

Kyrie inherited an 18 win team and... won 17 games([u]-1[/u]). Year 2 they won 28 games([u]+11[/u]). Year 3 could be one of his worst yet, it's certainly his worst shooting year.


Let's compare that to what LeBron did.

LeBron inherited a 16 win team and won 33 in his first year([u]+17[/u]). Year 2 they won 43 ([u]+10[/u]). Year 3 they won 48 ([u]+5[/u]). Through 3 seasons LeBron was able to add 32 wins. The Cavaliers might not win 32 games this season.

Through his first 3 seasons LeBron won [u][b]50.4%[/b][/u] of his games, and he inherited a WORSE team than Kyrie did.


Saying that Kyrie isn't a winner has nothing to do with how I feel about him as a player, it's a simple statistical fact.

[MtlJeff]

BTW you are totally allowed to be irrationally in love with a player of your choosing. On golfwrx that is known as the MtlJeff Russell Westbrook corollary. You just need to declare it

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385694596' post='8223560']
I've had League Pass for years now, and I assumed most posters in this thread had it also.

Kyrie has won [u][b]29.4%[/b][/u] of his games since coming into the league.

Kyrie inherited an 18 win team and... won 17 games([u]-1[/u]). Year 2 they won 28 games([u]+11[/u]). Year 3 could be one of his worst yet, it's certainly his worst shooting year.


Let's compare that to what LeBron did.

LeBron inherited a 16 win team and won 33 in his first year([u]+17[/u]). Year 2 they won 43 ([u]+10[/u]). Year 3 they won 48 ([u]+5[/u]). Through 3 seasons LeBron was able to add 32 wins. The Cavaliers might not win 32 games this season.

Through his first 3 seasons LeBron won [u][b]50.4%[/b][/u] of his games, and he inherited a WORSE team than Kyrie did.


Saying that Kyrie isn't a winner has nothing to do with how I feel about him as a player, it's a simple statistical fact.
[/quote]

You're comparing Kyrie to the best player on the planet over the last 5-7 years? Everyone is going to pale in comparison to LBJ. If you want to hate the guy, fine, but don't try to convince others he's terrible by comparing him to LBJ.

Paul Pierce won 24 games the season before Garnett got to town.

New Orleans had 3 losing seasons while Paul was there.

They're obviously both losers as well.

[mnplayer]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385693550' post='8223500']
Who said Kyrie was the Best PG in the game??? Or even the best future PG? I've never heard a respected person utter that.

For some biased person to say "he's not a winner" is complete crap. You know why? Because nobody knows.

To pick out a game against one of the best defensive teams in the game and declare that's who he is all the time - is idiocy. It's like picking out Russell going 2-16 and saying SEE SEE he's horrible. It's just troll hater )$&@
[/quote]

I think it's safe to say that a good amount of people(if not most) point to Kyrie as the next great point guard in the league, or even the next best player in the league.

[sefus12]

The late 90s/early 2000s kind of drove me away from the NBA game. It was a bit of a low after the greats of the late 80s/early 90s retired. I'm a huge college bball fan, so I was still getting my bball fix. Lebron's emergence and then the Mavs winning the finals (Go Dirk!) turned me back on to the League and now that UK (Yep, huge Cats fan) has a lot of players in the mix I've really gotten back into watching. Now I just have to decide if I want to drop the money to get the NBA network so I can watch Bledsoe run things out in Phoenix a few nights a week...

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='sefus12' timestamp='1385730262' post='8224350']
The late 90s/early 2000s kind of drove me away from the NBA game. It was a bit of a low after the greats of the late 80s/early 90s retired. I'm a huge college bball fan, so I was still getting my bball fix. Lebron's emergence and then the Mavs winning the finals (Go Dirk!) turned me back on to the League and now that UK (Yep, huge Cats fan) has a lot of players in the mix I've really gotten back into watching. Now I just have to decide if I want to drop the money to get the NBA network so I can watch Bledsoe run things out in Phoenix a few nights a week...
[/quote]

Not that this will be a happy memory for you, but my favorite basketball game ever was probably Kentucky/Arizona in 1997. What an amazing game. I think it was Epps who hit the big 3 at the end to send it to OT

[somaplr]

[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385694596' post='8223560']
I've had League Pass for years now, and I assumed most posters in this thread had it also.

Kyrie has won [u][b]29.4%[/b][/u] of his games since coming into the league.

Kyrie inherited an 18 win team and... won 17 games([u]-1[/u]). Year 2 they won 28 games([u]+11[/u]). Year 3 could be one of his worst yet, it's certainly his worst shooting year.


Let's compare that to what LeBron did.

LeBron inherited a 16 win team and won 33 in his first year([u]+17[/u]). Year 2 they won 43 ([u]+10[/u]). Year 3 they won 48 ([u]+5[/u]). Through 3 seasons LeBron was able to add 32 wins. The Cavaliers might not win 32 games this season.

Through his first 3 seasons LeBron won [u][b]50.4%[/b][/u] of his games, and he inherited a WORSE team than Kyrie did.


Saying that Kyrie isn't a winner has nothing to do with how I feel about him as a player, it's a simple statistical fact.
[/quote]

I hope you didnt waste a lot of time coming up with that - but comparing Kyrie thru years 19-21 to LBJ is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I mean we are talking about one of the best basektball players of a generation here. When we are evaluating situtaions in the basketball universe, you do know that you don't compare every given situation to what LeBron has done or will do? I know when the tide goes out you have LBJ underoos on, but that doesn't mean everyone else is a loser because they didnt reach what LBJ does. I lived there at that time, I know this.

I lived in Cleveland from 2002-2005, so I know quite a bit about what the Cavs did or did not have at that time. And Kyrie doesn't the same talent team as LBJ had when he came into the league. I'm not sure how old you were then, but Ilgauskas was an All-Star when LeBron joined the Cavs. Then they added a Drew Good and he got near his apex and had Flip Murray during his 2 year NBA "wow, look at Flip Murry" seasons. Then Larry Hughes just coming off All-Star season a season later. I'm not sure how on earth you think that Dion Waters, Tristan Thompson, CJ Miles and a half paralized Andy is better than Z, Gooden, Hughes, Murry - who were seasoned veterans at that point mind you and some were either all-stars or coming off all-star performances. Arguing about the 2002-2005 Cavs is kind of ridiculous, considering I went to about 20 games a year b/c of company season tickes.

Anyways, I'm off this Kyrie jump. Moving on.