The NBA basketball thread 2013-2014

[CourtJester]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1385437445' post='8208346']
[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385435346' post='8208136']
Buss Jr has been making terrible decisions ever since Daddy handed over the reigns, and today was just another one. Doesn't deserve much comment I don't think.



But hey, at least Laker fans will get to watch Kobe chuck it up and go for personal records the next 2 years as the Lakers are mired in mediocrity.
[/quote]

I would expect nothing else from a self admitted LeBron groupie that follows him from city to city. It's hard to understand the situation when you are not a fan of any team and rather only a groupie of a superstar.
[/quote]

A fan of the Lakers (and not Kobe) would (should) be pretty upset that Buss Jr chose to sign Kobe for another 2 years for ~25 a year, which will allow MAYBE 1 other max contract player and then leave nothing but pennies for 13 other [b]bums[/b].

Especially considering Kobe will be making about [u]6 million more a year than the [b]best player on the planet[/b] is making right now[/u].

Like I said, at least you will get to watch Kobe throw up a bunch of bricks every night as he chases stats on the All Time list, because there damn sure isn't going to be a bunch of winning or team basketball going on.

[somaplr]

Oh the irony in a Kobe hater being angry that he didn't take less money. Irony guy doesn't know he's ironic.

Kobe throwing up bricks? The heck are you talking about man? And here I thought we had intelligent bball conversations in the thread. You sound like one of those Tiger is a cheater haters almost...

[CourtJester]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385440614' post='8208578']
Oh the irony in a Kobe hater being angry that he didn't take less money. Irony guy doesn't know he's ironic.

Kobe throwing up bricks? The heck are you talking about man? And here I thought we had intelligent bball conversations in the thread. You sound like one of those Tiger is a cheater haters almost...
[/quote]

I'm not angry that he didn't take less money, I said Laker fans should be.

In fact [u]I'm quite looking forward[/u] to the mess that will be the Lakers the next few years, as I have enjoyed the mess the past few. You know that talk of Carmelo coming to LA? I REALLY hope he does. Watching Carmelo and Kobe fight over who gets to chuck the most would be most entertaining.


Kobe has the [b]most missed shots in NBA history[/b] (regular season + playoffs), while having played on stacked teams for the best franchise nearly his entire career.

Kobe has never come within 3% of averaging 50% in his career while having played with some of the best big men.


Kobe is a GREAT player, but is, by far, one of the most overrated EVER.


And no, Kobe is nowhere even close to Tiger's greatness.

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1385437445' post='8208346']
[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385435346' post='8208136']
Buss Jr has been making terrible decisions ever since Daddy handed over the reigns, and today was just another one. Doesn't deserve much comment I don't think.



But hey, at least Laker fans will get to watch Kobe chuck it up and go for personal records the next 2 years as the Lakers are mired in mediocrity.
[/quote]

I would expect nothing else from a self admitted LeBron groupie that follows him from city to city. It's hard to understand the situation when you are not a fan of any team and rather only a groupie of a superstar.
[/quote]

I'm confused as to why you've resorted to attacking him based on his opinion of the situation?

They signed a 35 year old Kobe to a 2 year 48.5 million dollar extension. The same Kobe that's coming off of an Achilles injury and hasn't played since April. I think they shoulda waited until he returned from injury to see how his body would respond before they gave him so much money.

Just my opinion though.

[gambit]

[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385441545' post='8208626']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385440614' post='8208578']
Oh the irony in a Kobe hater being angry that he didn't take less money. Irony guy doesn't know he's ironic.

Kobe throwing up bricks? The heck are you talking about man? And here I thought we had intelligent bball conversations in the thread. You sound like one of those Tiger is a cheater haters almost...
[/quote]

I'm not angry that he didn't take less money, I said Laker fans should be.

In fact [u]I'm quite looking forward[/u] to the mess that will be the Lakers the next few years, as I have enjoyed the mess the past few. You know that talk of Carmelo coming to LA? I REALLY hope he does. Watching Carmelo and Kobe fight over who gets to chuck the most would be most entertaining.


Kobe has the [b]most missed shots in NBA history[/b] (regular season + playoffs), while having played on stacked teams for the best franchise nearly his entire career.

Kobe has never come within 3% of averaging 50% in his career while having played with some of the best big men.


Kobe is a GREAT player, but is, by far, one of the most overrated EVER.


And no, Kobe is nowhere even close to Tiger's greatness.
[/quote]

How is Kobe overrated? He's one of the greatest players ever. Respected by all his peers. One of the hardest working and most driven players. You don't get compared to MJ if you're overrated.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='gambit' timestamp='1385444327' post='8208740']
[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385441545' post='8208626']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385440614' post='8208578']
Oh the irony in a Kobe hater being angry that he didn't take less money. Irony guy doesn't know he's ironic.

Kobe throwing up bricks? The heck are you talking about man? And here I thought we had intelligent bball conversations in the thread. You sound like one of those Tiger is a cheater haters almost...
[/quote]

I'm not angry that he didn't take less money, I said Laker fans should be.

In fact [u]I'm quite looking forward[/u] to the mess that will be the Lakers the next few years, as I have enjoyed the mess the past few. You know that talk of Carmelo coming to LA? I REALLY hope he does. Watching Carmelo and Kobe fight over who gets to chuck the most would be most entertaining.


Kobe has the [b]most missed shots in NBA history[/b] (regular season + playoffs), while having played on stacked teams for the best franchise nearly his entire career.

Kobe has never come within 3% of averaging 50% in his career while having played with some of the best big men.


Kobe is a GREAT player, but is, by far, one of the most overrated EVER.


And no, Kobe is nowhere even close to Tiger's greatness.
[/quote]

How is Kobe overrated? He's one of the greatest players ever. Respected by all his peers. One of the hardest working and most driven players. You don't get compared to MJ if you're overrated.
[/quote]
[attachment=1964812:Kobe Bryant (kobebryant) on Twitter.png]

[somaplr]

[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385441545' post='8208626']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385440614' post='8208578']
Oh the irony in a Kobe hater being angry that he didn't take less money. Irony guy doesn't know he's ironic.

Kobe throwing up bricks? The heck are you talking about man? And here I thought we had intelligent bball conversations in the thread. You sound like one of those Tiger is a cheater haters almost...
[/quote]

I'm not angry that he didn't take less money, I said Laker fans should be.

In fact [u]I'm quite looking forward[/u] to the mess that will be the Lakers the next few years, as I have enjoyed the mess the past few. You know that talk of Carmelo coming to LA? I REALLY hope he does. Watching Carmelo and Kobe fight over who gets to chuck the most would be most entertaining.


Kobe has the [b]most missed shots in NBA history[/b] (regular season + playoffs), while having played on stacked teams for the best franchise nearly his entire career.

Kobe has never come within 3% of averaging 50% in his career while having played with some of the best big men.


Kobe is a GREAT player, but is, by far, one of the most overrated EVER.


And no, Kobe is nowhere even close to Tiger's greatness.
[/quote]

Boy aren't you a math wizard. Most missed shots in NBA history? Dude...like you're serious with that? That's the dumbest hater stat I've ever heard.

You know who he passed? MJ. You know who's 3rd? Kareem. You know who's 4th? Malone. Get outta here with all that nonsense.

[gambit]

Just my opinion but I think Kobe will be fine when he comes back. Maybe even better than last year because he finally got to take a break from basketball. His jumper should be money, but penetrating might be sketchy. Regardless he makes them better because now there's someone that demands the focus of the opposing D. Plus he has the heart of a champion.

And more to the money and the signing by the Lakers...sometimes it's better to keep one of your all time greats and chalk up a few bucks than it is to burn a bridge. And most Laker fans would never want to see Kobe in another uniform. That would be like seeing Magic in another uniform. It's rare you see a great player play his entire career with one team...ala Jeter.

[mnplayer]

I really have no problem with the contract, although the timing I think is very strange. He did take a pay cut compared to his current contract, and we are talking about the Lakers who signed a 3 BILLION dollar deal with Time Warner, I don't think the cap/luxury tax will be a big deal. I doubt Nash is back next year, Pau will probably have to take a pay cut to stay if they get another max player, and a lot of the bench will be able to get more money elsewhere if LA has Kobe, Melo???, and Pau just for the sake of discussion. I trust Mitch to get a good team put together for next year.

[somaplr]

[quote name='gambit' timestamp='1385482692' post='8210386']
Just my opinion but I think Kobe will be fine when he comes back. Maybe even better than last year because he finally got to take a break from basketball. His jumper should be money, but penetrating might be sketchy. Regardless he makes them better because now there's someone that demands the focus of the opposing D. Plus he has the heart of a champion.

And more to the money and the signing by the Lakers...sometimes it's better to keep one of your all time greats and chalk up a few bucks than it is to burn a bridge. And most Laker fans would never want to see Kobe in another uniform. That would be like seeing Magic in another uniform. It's rare you see a great player play his entire career with one team...ala Jeter.
[/quote]

Haha, well I'm not sure he's getting any better than last year...he averaged 27, 6 & 6...if you expect that you're going to be let down

[gambit]

Nash shouldn't be brought back. The D'Antoni and Nash deals were horrible. The only thing that would have made things worse is if Dwight would have signed with them too, but we all knew he was leaving. They should in no way bring Melo to LA. So talented but lazy on the boards and on D. He could average close to 10 boards but he just doesn't care. I'm surprised no one is talking about Lebron going to LA, especially since he will be a free agent. Hard to see him resigning with Miami without both of his buds there.

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='gambit' timestamp='1385486785' post='8210804']
Nash shouldn't be brought back. The D'Antoni and Nash deals were horrible. The only thing that would have made things worse is if Dwight would have signed with them too, but we all knew he was leaving. They should in no way bring Melo to LA. So talented but lazy on the boards and on D. He could average close to 10 boards but he just doesn't care. I'm surprised no one is talking about Lebron going to LA, especially since he will be a free agent. Hard to see him resigning with Miami without both of his buds there.
[/quote]

Lebron has a better chance of ending up back in Cleveland than he does in LA.

[CourtJester]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385480080' post='8210204']
[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385441545' post='8208626']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385440614' post='8208578']
Oh the irony in a Kobe hater being angry that he didn't take less money. Irony guy doesn't know he's ironic.

Kobe throwing up bricks? The heck are you talking about man? And here I thought we had intelligent bball conversations in the thread. You sound like one of those Tiger is a cheater haters almost...
[/quote]

I'm not angry that he didn't take less money, I said Laker fans should be.

In fact [u]I'm quite looking forward[/u] to the mess that will be the Lakers the next few years, as I have enjoyed the mess the past few. You know that talk of Carmelo coming to LA? I REALLY hope he does. Watching Carmelo and Kobe fight over who gets to chuck the most would be most entertaining.


Kobe has the [b]most missed shots in NBA history[/b] (regular season + playoffs), while having played on stacked teams for the best franchise nearly his entire career.

Kobe has never come within 3% of averaging 50% in his career while having played with some of the best big men.


Kobe is a GREAT player, but is, by far, one of the most overrated EVER.


And no, Kobe is nowhere even close to Tiger's greatness.
[/quote]

Boy aren't you a math wizard. Most missed shots in NBA history? Dude...like you're serious with that? That's the dumbest hater stat I've ever heard.

You know who he passed? MJ. You know who's 3rd? Kareem. You know who's 4th? Malone. Get outta here with all that nonsense.
[/quote]

I think you might be confused.

Havlicek is 2nd. Malone is 3rd. MJ is 4th. Kareem is 5th.

Everyone of those players, besides Havlicek, have made more shots than Kobe however.




[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1385491312' post='8211222']
[quote name='gambit' timestamp='1385486785' post='8210804']
Nash shouldn't be brought back. The D'Antoni and Nash deals were horrible. The only thing that would have made things worse is if Dwight would have signed with them too, but we all knew he was leaving. They should in no way bring Melo to LA. So talented but lazy on the boards and on D. He could average close to 10 boards but he just doesn't care. I'm surprised no one is talking about Lebron going to LA, especially since he will be a free agent. Hard to see him resigning with Miami without both of his buds there.
[/quote]

Lebron has a better chance of ending up back in Cleveland than he does in LA.
[/quote]

People that think LeBron will ever play on the same team as Kobe (besides team USA) don't pay attention to basketball much I don't think.

[somaplr]

Obvious troll is obvious.

And btw man, if you think Kobe is the most overrated basketball player ever, I can't attest that you do or do not watch basketball. What I can attest to is how jaded you are and very little you know about the game.

[CourtJester]

Apparently, throwing out statistics makes one a troll now-a-days. Interesting.

The reaction on this forum to Kobe's new contract has been in stark contrast to the reaction from many Laker fans (read: not Kobe fans) I've seen on other sports forums.

Laker fans understand that the contract was absolutely terrible if the Lakers are actually trying to win, and I've seen this very opinion voiced numerous times.



Do I care if it was a terrible contract? Not at all, I enjoy seeing the once mighty Lakers on the downfall as Buss Jr continues to make one awful decision after another.

I tried to explain why the Lakers were going to be terrible last year and some people didn't want to believe it, and that's understandable, however this particular issue (whether it was a bad contract or not) seems to be pretty cut and dry.

Kobe's contract will pretty much single handily assure the Lakers have absolutely no chance of contending the next two years. Maybe that's Buss Jr's plan anyway? To "tank" in an underhanded fashion, while assuring tickets continue to be sold as Kobe continues his climb on the scoring list.

[somaplr]

Dude, throwing dumb stats our like "durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Kobe has missed the most shots evaaaaaaaa durrrrrrrrr" are not "stats". That's a longevity FACT, not a statistic that tells you anything besides he's played in the league a long time. It's not a coincidence that the top 5 scorers in the history of the NBA are in the top 6-7 missed shots of the NBA. It's like saying Jordan has missed the most game winners ever (which I think he has).

It's like saying Lebron is a loser because he's lost more finals games than he's won. It's just idiotic.

[CourtJester]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385494613' post='8211494']
Dude, throwing dumb stats our like "durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Kobe has missed the most shots evaaaaaaaa durrrrrrrrr" are not "stats". That's a longevity FACT, not a statistic that tells you anything besides he's played in the league a long time. It's not a coincidence that the top 5 scorers in the history of the NBA are in the top 6-7 missed shots of the NBA. It's like saying Jordan has missed the most game winners ever (which I think he has).

It's like saying Lebron is a loser because he's lost more finals games than he's won. It's just idiotic.
[/quote]

Kobe has played 9-11k fewer minutes than Malone/Kareem. That's the equivalent of 3-4 fewer seasons. Yet he has still managed to acquire the distinction of having missed the most shots in NBA history, in a much shorter time. A true testament to his dedication to chucking it up.

I do agree with you that saying LeBron is a loser because he's lost more Finals games than he's won is idiotic. Mainly because LeBron hasn't lost more Finals games than he's won.

[somaplr]

[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385497429' post='8211738']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385494613' post='8211494']
Dude, throwing dumb stats our like "durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Kobe has missed the most shots evaaaaaaaa durrrrrrrrr" are not "stats". That's a longevity FACT, not a statistic that tells you anything besides he's played in the league a long time. It's not a coincidence that the top 5 scorers in the history of the NBA are in the top 6-7 missed shots of the NBA. It's like saying Jordan has missed the most game winners ever (which I think he has).

It's like saying Lebron is a loser because he's lost more finals games than he's won. It's just idiotic.
[/quote]

Kobe has played 9-11k fewer minutes than Malone/Kareem. That's the equivalent of 3-4 fewer seasons. Yet he has still managed to acquire the distinction of having missed the most shots in NBA history, in a much shorter time. A true testament to his dedication to chucking it up.

I do agree with you that saying LeBron is a loser because he's lost more Finals games than he's won is idiotic. Mainly because LeBron hasn't lost more Finals games than he's won.
[/quote]

2007 - They got swept by the Spurs 4-0
2011 - They got beat by the Mavs 4-2
2012 - They beat OKC 4-1
2013 - They beat the Spurs 4-3


Go ahead and add those up for me and get back to me. I'll wait.

[CourtJester]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385498870' post='8211890']
[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385497429' post='8211738']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385494613' post='8211494']
Dude, throwing dumb stats our like "durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Kobe has missed the most shots evaaaaaaaa durrrrrrrrr" are not "stats". That's a longevity FACT, not a statistic that tells you anything besides he's played in the league a long time. It's not a coincidence that the top 5 scorers in the history of the NBA are in the top 6-7 missed shots of the NBA. It's like saying Jordan has missed the most game winners ever (which I think he has).

It's like saying Lebron is a loser because he's lost more finals games than he's won. It's just idiotic.
[/quote]

Kobe has played 9-11k fewer minutes than Malone/Kareem. That's the equivalent of 3-4 fewer seasons. Yet he has still managed to acquire the distinction of having missed the most shots in NBA history, in a much shorter time. A true testament to his dedication to chucking it up.

I do agree with you that saying LeBron is a loser because he's lost more Finals games than he's won is idiotic. Mainly because LeBron hasn't lost more Finals games than he's won.
[/quote]

2007 - They got swept by the Spurs 4-0
2011 - They got beat by the Mavs 4-2
2012 - They beat OKC 4-1
2013 - They beat the Spurs 4-3


Go ahead and add those up for me and get back to me. I'll wait.
[/quote]

My fault, you're right.

I forgot about the loss against OKC.


Either way I don't think the 07 Finals should count against him considering that team had no business being there in the first place, and the only reason they were there was LeBron.

[somaplr]

[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385501003' post='8212118']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385498870' post='8211890']
[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385497429' post='8211738']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385494613' post='8211494']
Dude, throwing dumb stats our like "durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Kobe has missed the most shots evaaaaaaaa durrrrrrrrr" are not "stats". That's a longevity FACT, not a statistic that tells you anything besides he's played in the league a long time. It's not a coincidence that the top 5 scorers in the history of the NBA are in the top 6-7 missed shots of the NBA. It's like saying Jordan has missed the most game winners ever (which I think he has).

It's like saying Lebron is a loser because he's lost more finals games than he's won. It's just idiotic.
[/quote]

Kobe has played 9-11k fewer minutes than Malone/Kareem. That's the equivalent of 3-4 fewer seasons. Yet he has still managed to acquire the distinction of having missed the most shots in NBA history, in a much shorter time. A true testament to his dedication to chucking it up.

I do agree with you that saying LeBron is a loser because he's lost more Finals games than he's won is idiotic. Mainly because LeBron hasn't lost more Finals games than he's won.
[/quote]

2007 - They got swept by the Spurs 4-0
2011 - They got beat by the Mavs 4-2
2012 - They beat OKC 4-1
2013 - They beat the Spurs 4-3


Go ahead and add those up for me and get back to me. I'll wait.
[/quote]

My fault, you're right.

I forgot about the loss against OKC.


Either way I don't think the 07 Finals should count against him considering that team had no business being there in the first place, and the only reason they were there was LeBron.
[/quote]

So the only records that count is when you team up with 2 other all-stars?

So all the "bad shots" Kobe had to take when he was with Smush, Mihm, Sasha, Kwame, Brian Cook, Medvendenko, Walton and Mckie shouldn't count either. Only the makes from those seasons should count because his team was WAY worse than Cleveland's cast then.

[CourtJester]

[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385501890' post='8212200']
[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385501003' post='8212118']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385498870' post='8211890']
[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385497429' post='8211738']
[quote name='somaplr' timestamp='1385494613' post='8211494']
Dude, throwing dumb stats our like "durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Kobe has missed the most shots evaaaaaaaa durrrrrrrrr" are not "stats". That's a longevity FACT, not a statistic that tells you anything besides he's played in the league a long time. It's not a coincidence that the top 5 scorers in the history of the NBA are in the top 6-7 missed shots of the NBA. It's like saying Jordan has missed the most game winners ever (which I think he has).

It's like saying Lebron is a loser because he's lost more finals games than he's won. It's just idiotic.
[/quote]

Kobe has played 9-11k fewer minutes than Malone/Kareem. That's the equivalent of 3-4 fewer seasons. Yet he has still managed to acquire the distinction of having missed the most shots in NBA history, in a much shorter time. A true testament to his dedication to chucking it up.

I do agree with you that saying LeBron is a loser because he's lost more Finals games than he's won is idiotic. Mainly because LeBron hasn't lost more Finals games than he's won.
[/quote]

2007 - They got swept by the Spurs 4-0
2011 - They got beat by the Mavs 4-2
2012 - They beat OKC 4-1
2013 - They beat the Spurs 4-3


Go ahead and add those up for me and get back to me. I'll wait.
[/quote]

My fault, you're right.

I forgot about the loss against OKC.


Either way I don't think the 07 Finals should count against him considering that team had no business being there in the first place, and the only reason they were there was LeBron.
[/quote]

So the only records that count is when you team up with 2 other all-stars?

So all the "bad shots" Kobe had to take when he was with Smush, Mihm, Sasha, Kwame, Brian Cook, Medvendenko, Walton and Mckie shouldn't count either. Only the makes from those seasons should count because his team was WAY worse than Cleveland's cast then.
[/quote]

The primary reason Kobe was stuck with those guys was because of his ego. He couldn't stand playing 2nd fiddle to a guy far better than himself, and ended up running him out of town.


The difference is LeBron was taking scrubs to the best record in the league and deep Play Off runs, while Kobe was taking scrubs to losing records and 1st round exits.

[mnplayer]

This is unrelated to the discussion you two are having and I think it is a bit more relevant.

Court, I don't think it's fair to say that Kobe's contract is completely devastating in the way that you suggest it to be. If we assume that Nash and Pau are both gone(I think this is a pretty safe bet based on the cap and the money Pau would want, and Nash being amnestied) then you have Kobe at 22.5 million, Young at 1.2 million, Sacre at 900k. That leaves 36.5 million based on the projected cap. Carmelo can get a bit over 22 million in LA from what I've seen, theoretically with Melo in LA on a max deal there is around 14.5 million left to fill out the roster, and Sacre may be gone as well.

We aren't dealing with a hard cap and the Lakers can dip into the luxury tax especially when you consider the time warner deal I'm not worrying much about the salary cap. Where you have to worry is how much like Kobe is Kobe going to look like when he comes back, I really don't like the contract before he's played a minute off the injury. Loyalty is one thing but I think that is pure stupidity, and I don't think that can be argued no matter how big of a Kobe or Laker fan you are. I would have loved to see Kobe back at 15-17 to give us some more flexibility but that is almost a 50% pay cut so you can't realistically expect that.

[CourtJester]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1385504082' post='8212352']
This is unrelated to the discussion you two are having and I think it is a bit more relevant.

Court, I don't think it's fair to say that Kobe's contract is completely devastating in the way that you suggest it to be. If we assume that Nash and Pau are both gone(I think this is a pretty safe bet based on the cap and the money Pau would want, and Nash being amnestied) then you have Kobe at 22.5 million, Young at 1.2 million, Sacre at 900k. That leaves 36.5 million based on the projected cap. Carmelo can get a bit over 22 million in LA from what I've seen, theoretically with Melo in LA on a max deal there is around 14.5 million left to fill out the roster, and Sacre may be gone as well.

We aren't dealing with a hard cap and the Lakers can dip into the luxury tax especially when you consider the time warner deal I'm not worrying much about the salary cap. Where you have to worry is how much like Kobe is Kobe going to look like when he comes back, I really don't like the contract before he's played a minute off the injury. Loyalty is one thing but I think that is pure stupidity, and I don't think that can be argued no matter how big of a Kobe or Laker fan you are. I would have loved to see Kobe back at 15-17 to give us some more flexibility but that is almost a 50% pay cut so you can't realistically expect that.
[/quote]

Kobe is actually at almost 25 million, but it doesn't matter. The way the math works out, the Lakers will be able to sign one max contract player next season and then have peanuts left over to fill out the roster.

I completely understand the loyalty part, and think the Lakers keeping Kobe was definitely the right move. What I don't understand is the contract itself. They could have signed him at say 16-17m/yr and then had a lot to work with to bring in solid role players.

The way it works out now, Kobe (the next 2 years) will STILL be the highest paid player in the league, and likely won't even be a top 5 player. That's simply bad decision making if the Lakers are looking to win. If they are looking to fill seats while they wait out the storm then it's great decision making.

[mnplayer]

Completely fair to not be happy with the money he's going to make but my real problem is the timing of the deal. This as the first offer doesn't make sense to me, they didn't even attempt to see if he would be willing to take 16-17 to have more money for the rest of the roster. That doesn't make any sense to me. And as for the timing, why not wait until Kobe plays 20 games and you at least see if he looks like Kobe? And yes my mistake, Kobe at 23.5 next year, 25 the year after.

[scratchswinger]

What seems to be forgotten here is that the Lakers (including Jerry) have a long history of awarding players that have earned it. This contract does not make a ton of sense basketball wise, I think we can all agree on that. But what some of you are unable to see is that this contract means more than basketball. The Lakers are a brand, in LA they are huge. Kobe is a massive part of the Lakers and the fan base. Awarding Kobe with this contract before he has even played a game is a true testament to the Lakers and the Buss families loyalty. Jerry once gave Magic a 25 year, 25 million dollar contract, and at the time only two other players were currently making 1 million. So slam on Jim all that you want, when you are on the outside looking in you have tunnel vision. The fact of the matter is, this was a decision by the entire Buss family and it is inline to exactly what his father would have done.

Kobe is going to play 20 years for one team and will surpass Stocktons record of 19 seasons. The legacy of the Lakers and Kobe will be difficult to ever beat. As great as LeBron is, he has not done it like Kobe did. LeBron walked away from adversity, Kobe has welcomed it.

This contract in no way handcuffs the Lakers. We still have room to sign one max contract and one mid level. We could easily sign LeBron or Melo and get another guy to play alongside them. Nash can be waived and taken off the books, Pau will have the option to sign for a hometown discount. Will we win a title the next two years with Kobe's current deal, probably not. Will it mean more to this city and the fan base to watch Mamba throwing bricks the next two years in purple and gold, undoubtedly!

It would have been nice to see Kobe take a smaller contract, but I can't blame him for taking the money.

[CourtJester]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1385507042' post='8212574']
The legacy of the Lakers and Kobe will be difficult to ever beat. As great as LeBron is, he has not done it like Kobe did. LeBron walked away from adversity, Kobe has welcomed it.

[/quote]

This is one of the biggest piles of crap I've ever heard.

LeBron played on one of the worst franchises in the NBA the first 7 years of his career, playing with tomato cans and did not complain once.

Kobe [u]FORCED[/u] his way onto the Lakers (just like Magic), the unequivocally best franchise in the NBA, on draft night, ran Shaq out of town because he couldn't stand being 2nd fiddle and then DEMANDED (to the media no less) that the Lakers trade him when he realized he needed help unless they could put a whole pile of talent around him.

We've all seen what Kobe has done when his teams aren't stacked to the roof, and it's a whole lot of bad records and early exits.


LeBron is already tied with Kobe for rings as best player on the team.

By the end of LeBron's career, the only thing he will not have surpassed Kobe in will be missed shots and rapes. Bookmark it, and take it to the bank.

[MtlJeff]

I don't always agree with Court, but i do agree with a lot of the Kobe sentiments above. I'll be the first to say Kobe was a phenomenal 2 way player for many years, is still a terrific well rounded offensive player late in his career, and you can't disregard that even after Shaq he won 2 titles as the undisputed best player on the Lakers, something not many players can say.

But the 3 peat Lakers had a lot of problems. Not to rehash what we talked about last year too much (somaplr, we discussed Kobe at length last year) but who knows how many titles the Shaqobe Lakers could have won. Kobe did seem very intent on getting rid of Shaq to make it his team, and then he demanded a trade when things weren't going well (they came very close to trading him to the Pistons for Rip Hamilton and others). He has been a pretty big pouter IMO at various points in his career. He wants great talent around him but ONLY if they defer to him without hesitation. There were reports that even before Howard got traded there, he and Kobe had a call that almost derailed the whole deal (Kobe basically told him, if you come here just know it's my team no matter what)...I think Kobe's legacy will be that of a super talent that was remarkably difficult to play with or get along with, and someone as obsessed with his legacy as he was with winning. He will also receive the credit he's due as one of the alltime toughest and hardest working players on the court.

I'm not a huge fan of his in the end. I respect the talent, but think his own ambition hurt his career both in perception and actuality.

And i don't blame the Lakers for resigning him. They have serious cash....and even Mark Cuban said there are some guys that mean enough to your franchise that you go down with the ship....he said that about Dirk.

[MtlJeff]

As far as Lebron, you can't disregard that he left his hometown team, even though they had a horrific team around him. I wonder how much effort he put into trying to get Bosh or Wade to come to Cleveland. I'm sure they could have freed up some salary to get one of them.

Lebron shouldn't get a pass for that. And if he leaves Miami he shouldn't get a pass for being one of the few alltime greats who just switches teams left and right. I think theres something to be said for sticking it out like Tim Duncan has done

But i think the difference between Lebron and Kobe when their careers are over (and they have presumably similar amounts of titles) will be that everyone loved playing with Lebron

[MtlJeff]

speaking of Duncan, he is my favorite basketball player ever. We're talking about Kobe's contract extension. Tim Duncan makes less then Javale Mcgee. He made less money then [i]friggin Javale Mcgee[/i] last season when he was quite possibly the best center/forward in the NBA at 36 years old

Since they drafted Tim Duncan their worst season is 50-32, their second worst season is 53-29 and their 3rd worst 54-28 (which was the Knicks record last year in a great year for them). They have 9 seasons with 58 wins or more and 4 titles with him as the undisputed best player

And when he got older, he took less money so they could stay competitive

Tim Duncan is the man!

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='CourtJester' timestamp='1385507834' post='8212618']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1385507042' post='8212574']
The legacy of the Lakers and Kobe will be difficult to ever beat. As great as LeBron is, he has not done it like Kobe did. LeBron walked away from adversity, Kobe has welcomed it.

[/quote]

This is one of the biggest piles of crap I've ever heard.

LeBron played on one of the worst franchises in the NBA the first 7 years of his career, playing with tomato cans and did not complain once.

Kobe [u]FORCED[/u] his way onto the Lakers (just like Magic), the unequivocally best franchise in the NBA, on draft night, ran Shaq out of town because he couldn't stand being 2nd fiddle and then DEMANDED (to the media no less) that the Lakers trade him when he realized he needed help unless they could put a whole pile of talent around him.

We've all seen what Kobe has done when his teams aren't stacked to the roof, and it's a whole lot of bad records and early exits.


LeBron is already tied with Kobe for rings as best player on the team.

By the end of LeBron's career, the only thing he will not have surpassed Kobe in will be missed shots and rapes. Bookmark it, and take it to the bank.
[/quote]

If LeBron had to jump ship from his own hometown and "Take his talents" to two other great players to get his titles. Say what you want about Kobe, but don't use LeBron as ammo. The dude lives in a glass house.

You have readily admitted being a LeBron groupie, following him from city to city and in your own words "whatever team he is on is your favorite team". With that groupie mentality I don't blame you for bashing the Kobe deal, you obviously have no idea what a player and team can mean to a city/ community.

BTW- You keep taking these low blows every time you post by mentioning the "rape" and "missed shots" and you will easily be thought of as a troll. However, I understand that you don't care.

Like I said before...

[attachment=1965514:Kobe Bryant (kobebryant) on Twitter.png]