Hickory vs Titanium on a Trackman!

dparkdpark Members Posts: 2,535 ✭✭
Got to do something really fun today, hit my modern clubs side by side with hickory!



My club had a Titleist ball fitting today and I was the last fitting so they let me goof around with my hickory clubs on the Trackman.



The screen shot is of a hickory drive and the shot dispersion side of the screen you can see where the hickory drive landed vs. titanium. A 30 yard difference in carry (217.9 vs 248) and a 25 yard difference in total distance (237.5 vs 262)



Huge difference in clubhead speed. 93mph with hickory and 104mph with graphite. Not that I couldn't swing as hard with hickory, but the results get very inconsistent because of the high torque in the shaft. 93mph is a swing that gets me good, repeatable results.



The titleist fitter was impressed with the numbers for the hickory. Launch, spin and smash factor were all solid. Only way to hit the ball further would be to swing harder image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



Club specs:

Hickory: Forgan St Andrews 10*, 43", C-9 swingweight, original Forgan hickory shaft

Titanium: Cobra Zero Limits, 10.5*, 44.5", D-2 swingweight, Matrix HD-6 stiff shaft



89d5ce986f0ee2da29b2d90f4f3ec1fc.jpg



ecb5069ec8fb1cbe00b4892132359d82.jpg



d3aca48bb7107d1722069ea8bacc0bf0.jpg



Only thing that would have been better would have been to also get my persimmon woods measured on the Trackman too.
Old stuff:
1962 Tommy Armour AT2W Driver
1953 Macgregor M65W EOM 3 wood
1978 H&B PowerBilt Citation 4 wood
1984 Ben Hogan Apex PC 2-E
1968 Wilson Dual Wedge
1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye Putter

New stuff
Cobra ZL 10.5 driver
Adams 5050 16 fairway wood
Adams A2P 20* hybrid
Titleist 716 MB irons 4-PW
Callaway Mack Daddy wedges 52, 56, 60
Scotty Cameron Pro Platinum Napa

Comments

  • freddiecfreddiec Members Posts: 4,277 ✭✭
    Great post ��! Always fun to see a side by side comparison like this
  • dcopp7dcopp7 Members Posts: 987 ✭✭
    So what titleist are you getting?
    Callaway 3deep 14.5* 3 wood

    Cobra MAX 16.5* 3 wood

    Synchron Vespa 19* hybrid

    Dynacraft Prophet CB flexface 5i-PW

    Acer XB 52* & 58* wedges

    OLD Northwestern heel shaft putter
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,396 ✭✭
    Very interesting and revealing and yes I would be very curious as to the numbers with persimmon and steel--- Thanks for posting---- BTW hope Rick Shiels or one of those guys do not see this because they will be in a all night brain storming session trying to refute the results image/taunt.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':taunt:' />
  • dbleagdbleag Members Posts: 2,879 ✭✭
    OP - what kind of balls did you use?
  • ebeerebeer Swing Hickory! Members Posts: 269 ✭✭
    If I were a Cobra rep, I would not be thrilled in knowing that 100 years of technology innovation resulted in a mere 25yds!
    • Various Brassies depending on mood: Alex Herd, AG Spalding, etc
    • George Nicoll 2 Iron Tom Stewart: Jigger, Mashie, Mashie Niblick, Niblick
    • Putters: AG Spalding, Standard Mills, Tom Stewart - depends if I want to miss right or left ;)
    • NorCal Hickory - Pacific Hickory - StymieMagnet (this Instagram link has new hickory photos posted almost daily)
  • stixmanstixman Hew to the line. Let the divots fall where they may. 1926 Golf I Members Posts: 1,835 ✭✭
    ebeer wrote:


    If I were a Cobra rep, I would not be thrilled in knowing that 100 years of technology innovation resulted in a mere 25yds!




    You are being kind to the Cobra rep, it's minimum of 110 years. That Forgan Crown mark tells all!
  • deetsaldeetsal deetsal Members Posts: 1,380 ✭✭
    dpark wrote:


    Got to do something really fun today, hit my modern clubs side by side with hickory!



    My club had a Titleist ball fitting today and I was the last fitting so they let me goof around with my hickory clubs on the Trackman.



    The screen shot is of a hickory drive and the shot dispersion side of the screen you can see where the hickory drive landed vs. titanium. A 30 yard difference in carry (217.9 vs 248) and a 25 yard difference in total distance (237.5 vs 262)



    Huge difference in clubhead speed. 93mph with hickory and 104mph with graphite. Not that I couldn't swing as hard with hickory, but the results get very inconsistent because of the high torque in the shaft. 93mph is a swing that gets me good, repeatable results.



    The titleist fitter was impressed with the numbers for the hickory. Launch, spin and smash factor were all solid. Only way to hit the ball further would be to swing harder image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    Club specs:

    Hickory: Forgan St Andrews 10*, 43", C-9 swingweight, original Forgan hickory shaft

    Titanium: Cobra Zero Limits, 10.5*, 44.5", D-2 swingweight, Matrix HD-6 stiff shaft



    89d5ce986f0ee2da29b2d90f4f3ec1fc.jpg



    ecb5069ec8fb1cbe00b4892132359d82.jpg



    d3aca48bb7107d1722069ea8bacc0bf0.jpg



    Only thing that would have been better would have been to also get my persimmon woods measured on the Trackman too.The real test would be to hit each at the at the same swing speed that will show the technology diff.
  • deetsaldeetsal deetsal Members Posts: 1,380 ✭✭
    The test should be same swing speed, that will show the real difference. Should still Dr substantial.
  • dubbelbogeydubbelbogey Members Posts: 440 ✭✭
    deetsal wrote:


    The test should be same swing speed, that will show the real difference. Should still Dr substantial.




    It would be interesting to choke up on the modern driver so the effective club length is the same as the vintage club.
  • DcohenourDcohenour Members Posts: 610 ✭✭
    edited Jun 4, 2018 #11
    The scoring difference between the 2015 US Open and the 1915 US Open is about 30 strokes. I suspect that if one were to look back through the stats, we would find about a 2-3% improvement between eras (hickory to steel, steel to graphite, wood to laminate to alloy) Add to that the improvement in physique, the ball technology, and course management, my sense is that the game is relatively the same all things considered. Scores should be lower, but we really have no way of knowing how the players of the teens and twenties would play if they had modern equipment. We could have current players play with hickory on 100 year old courses, which would be, imo, a fantastic event to witness. Even having them go back to the 1960's equipment and play an entire tournament, like at Oakmont for instance, would be amazing.



    Something like that, at the end of the season, would be fun for everyone. Make it a huge charity event. Oh well...in my dreams. To the main point though, the comparison between hickory and a modern club is interesting, even if I have no idea what those numbers mean.

    image/to_become_senile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':to_become_senile:' />
    OGA #1972-2018
  • majicmajic Charter Members Posts: 1,218 ✭✭
    My results show on the average 10% reduction in distance for the hickory. This is a hickory at 43 inches and modern at 45 inches. This is very good info based on many players.
  • dparkdpark Members Posts: 2,535 ✭✭
    dbleag wrote:


    OP - what kind of balls did you use?




    For the modern clubs, I hit both the Pro-V1 and the X. Virtually no difference off the driver, and that is supposed to be intentional. The differences were seen with the 7-iron and partial wedges. Much higher apex and more spin with the Pro-V1x.



    For the hickory driver, I only hit the Pro-V1. The fitter said there wouldn't be much difference with the X off the driver, same as with my Cobra. Didn't hit the irons.
    Old stuff:
    1962 Tommy Armour AT2W Driver
    1953 Macgregor M65W EOM 3 wood
    1978 H&B PowerBilt Citation 4 wood
    1984 Ben Hogan Apex PC 2-E
    1968 Wilson Dual Wedge
    1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye Putter

    New stuff
    Cobra ZL 10.5 driver
    Adams 5050 16 fairway wood
    Adams A2P 20* hybrid
    Titleist 716 MB irons 4-PW
    Callaway Mack Daddy wedges 52, 56, 60
    Scotty Cameron Pro Platinum Napa
  • dparkdpark Members Posts: 2,535 ✭✭
    dcopp7 wrote:


    So what titleist are you getting?




    Switching from Pro-V1 to the X. The higher spin and trajectory was significant for me off the irons and wedges. Don't like the feel off the putter, but I'll get used to it (I hope).
    Old stuff:
    1962 Tommy Armour AT2W Driver
    1953 Macgregor M65W EOM 3 wood
    1978 H&B PowerBilt Citation 4 wood
    1984 Ben Hogan Apex PC 2-E
    1968 Wilson Dual Wedge
    1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye Putter

    New stuff
    Cobra ZL 10.5 driver
    Adams 5050 16 fairway wood
    Adams A2P 20* hybrid
    Titleist 716 MB irons 4-PW
    Callaway Mack Daddy wedges 52, 56, 60
    Scotty Cameron Pro Platinum Napa
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,396 ✭✭
    Dcohenour wrote:


    The scoring difference between the 2015 US Open and the 1915 US Open is about 30 strokes. I suspect that if one were to look back through the stats, we would find about a 2-3% improvement between eras (hickory to steel, steel to graphite, wood to laminate to alloy) Add to that the improvement in physique, the ball technology, and course management, my sense is that the game is relatively the same all things considered. Scores should be lower, but we really have no way of knowing how the players of the teens and twenties would play if they had modern equipment. We could have current players play with hickory on 100 year old courses, which would be, imo, a fantastic event to witness. Even having them go back to the 1960's equipment and play an entire tournament, like at Oakmont for instance, would be amazing.



    Something like that, at the end of the season, would be fun for everyone. Make it a huge charity event. Oh well...in my dreams. To the main point though, the comparison between hickory and a modern club is interesting, even if I have no idea what those numbers mean.

    image/to_become_senile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':to_become_senile:' />
    I agree and I have said that for years. As it being a charity event that is one fantastic idea. The only drawback I see is that it would not have much mainstream support. The mainstream guys could not appreciate the old stuff like we do after all we played it and to some extent still play it. And truthfully I ain't too "hip" on the numbers thing either. I have only been on a Trackman one time and it was a friend of mine's machine and I trusted what he was telling me. I did learn what others had said about Titleist drivers as in they spin a lot because I saw the sidespin I was putting on my 915 with my anti hook cut swing . But I also saw something else and he backed it up. I am more accurate with the 915 because I know what it is going to do (in most cases) and can compensate for it. That Homna in my signature is a lot hotter off the face but I do not control it quite as well not bad but not as good
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,396 ✭✭
    deetsal wrote:


    The test should be same swing speed, that will show the real difference. Should still Dr substantial.
    That would be hard for the average human to do with the different swing weights and sizes of the heads> Think as in air displacement and the overall weights of the clubs. But now on a machine like an Iron Byron that would be in the words of Artie Johnson "verrry interesting"
  • SteveNZSteveNZ Members Posts: 636 ✭✭
    BIG STU wrote:

    deetsal wrote:


    The test should be same swing speed, that will show the real difference. Should still Dr substantial.
    That would be hard for the average human to do with the different swing weights and sizes of the heads> Think as in air displacement and the overall weights of the clubs. But now on a machine like an Iron Byron that would be in the words of Artie Johnson "verrry interesting"




    Stu - this is the one thing that is missing from the current distance debate - some science. To anyone's eye the ball is travelling further "than it used to" (combo of ball itself, club tech and increased player athleticism), and indeed too far at the very highest level (IMHO) but what is needed is some rigorous Iron Byron testing, in very small swing speed increments to see what effect the current ball is having, compared to an old ball, or even a "rolled-back" ball. Smarter people than me are of the belief that the vast majority of golfers do not swing fast enough to see any difference between a ProV and a "rolled-back" ball (so no one is going to be taking their 20 yards away) and I'd assume that some Iron Byron testing would confirm that - but we just need to see it!
  • Chris122Chris122 Banned Posts: 611 ✭✭
    I've read this several times,it is an eye-opener but mostly I'm impressed (and envious!) of the OP's ability.
  • BIG STUBIG STU Members Posts: 11,396 ✭✭
    Chris122 wrote:


    I've read this several times,it is an eye-opener but mostly I'm impressed (and envious!) of the OP's ability.
    I will agree he has some good tempo and rhythm to his swing to be able to hit a Hickory that good. But from what I have seen most guys that play hickory a lot do have good timing and tempo. And from the numbers he put up with the hickory he is also an excellent ball striker. Yeah I am envious too
  • dparkdpark Members Posts: 2,535 ✭✭
    BIG STU wrote:
    Chris122 wrote:


    I've read this several times,it is an eye-opener but mostly I'm impressed (and envious!) of the OP's ability.
    I will agree he has some good tempo and rhythm to his swing to be able to hit a Hickory that good. But from what I have seen most guys that play hickory a lot do have good timing and tempo. And from the numbers he put up with the hickory he is also an excellent ball striker. Yeah I am envious too




    Thanks Big Stu and Chris122!



    I do have an old school swing, much more like Payne Stewart than Tiger, with a very smooth transition at the top. It also probably helps that I play persimmon regularly as well, so the small head doesn't bother me.
    Old stuff:
    1962 Tommy Armour AT2W Driver
    1953 Macgregor M65W EOM 3 wood
    1978 H&B PowerBilt Citation 4 wood
    1984 Ben Hogan Apex PC 2-E
    1968 Wilson Dual Wedge
    1964 Acushnet O-SET M6S Bullseye Putter

    New stuff
    Cobra ZL 10.5 driver
    Adams 5050 16 fairway wood
    Adams A2P 20* hybrid
    Titleist 716 MB irons 4-PW
    Callaway Mack Daddy wedges 52, 56, 60
    Scotty Cameron Pro Platinum Napa
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