Simultaneous matches and a conceded putt

Friendly round, lots of wagering happening. A and B have a better ball match against C and D (actually the third of a 6-6-6 fun wager). Separately and simultaneously, A and C have a 1-on-1 match happening. C and D also have their usual 1-on-1 match going. A knocks a ball to two feet (below the hole!). D concedes the putt and bats it back to A. C says “wait!” But it’s too late. D has already batted the ball away. C seems upset and shakes his head. D apologizes. C hits his next shot rather poorly. D says, I think there’s a rule where we can replace A’s ball and have him putt it. C says, don’t bother. He misses the long comebacker and loses the hole in both of his 1-on-1 matches. D feels contrite.

Ok D was me. I’m telling you it was an obvious gimme by our standards (or almost anyone’s)! Ok not a good excuse, I know. I felt terrible. I wish I had told C to back off his shot and take some time while we replaced A’s ball on the green to the best of our ability. Could we have done that? I can’t find the rule.

Obviously having C and D as teammates while they’re also opponents is not great. (Should they help each other on reading putts?!). This happens all the time in our group because we find the 6-6-6 format a lot of fun. (The friendly trash talking is hilarious: “A, you’re terrible. You should have no confidence in your game. Until about an hour from now!” “B, great drive! Where the hell was that 2 holes ago?! Am I not an inspiring teammate compared to C? Wtf?!”) In a formal sense, is this allowed? With the 6-6-6 format, at some point, A and C were also simultaneous teammates and opponents.

That's something that would have to be determined before your round to cover that eventuality. There's not a RoG rule to cover this as it isn't a "sanctioned" format.

I'd suggest in the future you just play this as a everyone putts out so these circumstances don't come up. Mixing match and stroke play is a disaster waiting to happen.

> @lchang said:

>

> Ok D was me. I’m telling you it was an obvious gimme by our standards (or almost anyone’s)! Ok not a good excuse, I know. I felt terrible. I wish I had told C to back off his shot and take some time while we replaced A’s ball on the green to the best of our ability. Could we have done that? I can’t find the rule.

>

There is no Rule for that as the format is unknown to the Rules but I would have ruled there is no penalty for moving the ball as you were not C's opponent and the ball must be replaced.

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> That's something that would have to be determined before your round to cover that eventuality. There's not a RoG rule to cover this as it isn't a "sanctioned" format.

>

> I'd suggest in the future you just play this as a everyone putts out so these circumstances don't come up. Mixing match and stroke play is a disaster waiting to happen.

Which format isn’t sanctioned? Better ball is, right? I’m assuming you mean 6-6-6, but the issues still apply in the absence of that (ie, being opponents and BB teammates at the same time)

And there was no stroke play. Only match play.

C could have had A replace his ball, but did not. I view C’s “don’t bother” comment as C also conceding the putt to A.

I know that having a player simultaneously be a match play partner and an opponent is not specifically sanctioned by the rules, but I don’t find it explicitly forbidden either. I do know that it completely destroys the “advice”rules, as well as the rules of common sense IMO.

> @Sawgrass said:

> C could have had A replace his ball, but did not. I view C’s “don’t bother” comment as C also conceding the putt to A.

Yeah. I flustered C by batting it away. I should have insisted he back off his shot and we replace A’s ball (instead of just suggesting it). Can you point me to the rule that allows replacing A’s ball?

> I know that having a player simultaneously be a match play partner and an opponent is not specifically sanctioned by the rules, but I don’t find it explicitly forbidden either. I do know that it completely destroys the “advice”rules, as well as the rules of common sense IMO.

Yup. That’s what I would have guessed.

We play this way a lot - we just know to ask everyone if a putt is good or not. In your case, C definitely could have re-putted. As stated above, its good to let everyone know all the games going on, so they are conscious of giving putts.

> @jmkenn0 said:

> We play this way a lot - we just know to ask everyone if a putt is good or not. In your case, C definitely could have re-putted. As stated above, its good to let everyone know all the games going on, so they are conscious of giving putts.

Oh I knew there was another match, I just made the incorrect judgment that it was an obvious gimme for all parties. Mistake by me.

“C definitely could have re-putted.” This can’t be right, can it?!

> @lchang said:

> > @Sawgrass said:

> > C could have had A replace his ball, but did not. I view C’s “don’t bother” comment as C also conceding the putt to A.

>

> Yeah. I flustered C by batting it away. I should have insisted he back off his shot and we replace A’s ball (instead of just suggesting it). Can you point me to the rule that allows replacing A’s ball?

>

>

>

Interpretation 3.2b (2)/1 implies it.

> @lchang said:

> > @jmkenn0 said:

> > We play this way a lot - we just know to ask everyone if a putt is good or not. In your case, C definitely could have re-putted. As stated above, its good to let everyone know all the games going on, so they are conscious of giving putts.

>

> Oh I knew there was another match, I just made the incorrect judgment that it was an obvious gimme for all parties. Mistake by me.

>

> “C definitely could have re-putted.” This can’t be right, can it?!

It is right. In the AvC singles match, you (D) were an outside influence. So when you interfered with C's ball, from the perspective of the A/C match, C was actually required by R9.6 to replace the ball and carry on.

> @Sawgrass said:

> > @lchang said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > C could have had A replace his ball, but did not. I view C’s “don’t bother” comment as C also conceding the putt to A.

> >

> > Yeah. I flustered C by batting it away. I should have insisted he back off his shot and we replace A’s ball (instead of just suggesting it). Can you point me to the rule that allows replacing A’s ball?

> >

> >

> >

> Interpretation 3.2b (2)/1 implies it.

>

Ah! Thank you!

> @antip said:

> > @lchang said:

> > > @jmkenn0 said:

> > > We play this way a lot - we just know to ask everyone if a putt is good or not. In your case, C definitely could have re-putted. As stated above, its good to let everyone know all the games going on, so they are conscious of giving putts.

> >

> > Oh I knew there was another match, I just made the incorrect judgment that it was an obvious gimme for all parties. Mistake by me.

> >

> > “C definitely could have re-putted.” This can’t be right, can it?!

>

> It is right. In the AvC singles match, you (D) were an outside influence. So when you interfered with C's ball, from the perspective of the A/C match, C was actually required by R9.6 to replace the ball and carry on.

Maybe some confusion here. C is the one who DID putt, and missed. He can’t get a do-over just because he was frustrated by the concession given to A.

> @HitEmTrue said:

> > @antip said:

> > > @lchang said:

> > > > @jmkenn0 said:

> > > > We play this way a lot - we just know to ask everyone if a putt is good or not. In your case, C definitely could have re-putted. As stated above, its good to let everyone know all the games going on, so they are conscious of giving putts.

> > >

> > > Oh I knew there was another match, I just made the incorrect judgment that it was an obvious gimme for all parties. Mistake by me.

> > >

> > > “C definitely could have re-putted.” This can’t be right, can it?!

> >

> > It is right. In the AvC singles match, you (D) were an outside influence. So when you interfered with C's ball, from the perspective of the A/C match, C was actually required by R9.6 to replace the ball and carry on.

>

> Maybe some confusion here. C is the one who DID putt, and missed. He can’t get a do-over just because he was frustrated by the concession given to A.

>

>

Yes. I think both @antip and @jmkenn0 both meant A could putt the conceded putt after replacement. C isn’t allowed to redo anything.

> @lchang said:

> > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > @antip said:

> > > > @lchang said:

> > > > > @jmkenn0 said:

> > > > > We play this way a lot - we just know to ask everyone if a putt is good or not. In your case, C definitely could have re-putted. As stated above, its good to let everyone know all the games going on, so they are conscious of giving putts.

> > > >

> > > > Oh I knew there was another match, I just made the incorrect judgment that it was an obvious gimme for all parties. Mistake by me.

> > > >

> > > > “C definitely could have re-putted.” This can’t be right, can it?!

> > >

> > > It is right. In the AvC singles match, you (D) were an outside influence. So when you interfered with C's ball, from the perspective of the A/C match, C was actually required by R9.6 to replace the ball and carry on.

> >

> > Maybe some confusion here. C is the one who DID putt, and missed. He can’t get a do-over just because he was frustrated by the concession given to A.

> >

> >

>

> Yes. I think both @antip and @jmkenn0 both meant A could putt the conceded putt after replacement. C isn’t allowed to redo anything.

Indeed. But it is more than "could". My point was D's concession was not binding on the other singles match D was not part of and for that other match the rules (9.6) actually require the knocked away ball to be replaced.

C here! Additional context, I was playing miserable all day (midst of a swing change) and mounted a late stage rally from 5 down to 2 down, putting to extend the match with A. Also a few presses on the bet w/ D that were in play. I wasn't going to pull a Kutcher-Garcia on A for the putt, but the distraction was obvious (at least enough for D to make this post! haha) as I was already on edge from the crap golf all day. I should have backed off and refocused.

Unrelated - the last time the 3 of us played together, D&A are jabbering about A's clubs while I tee it up on a par 3 w/ hazards in play, in the midst of a great round for me at that course. Start of my downswing, D clangs A's club and I cold skull one into the crap. HMMMmmmm...maybe related afterall... I smell conspiracy, @lchang!! :)

(Or maybe I need to not go TNT Nitro so much)

> @"Audi A-Fore" said:

> C here! Additional context, I was playing miserable all day (midst of a swing change) and mounted a late stage rally from 5 down to 2 down, putting to extend the match with A. Also a few presses on the bet w/ D that were in play. I wasn't going to pull a Kutcher-Garcia on A for the putt, but the distraction was obvious (at least enough for D to make this post! haha) as I was already on edge from the crap golf all day. I should have backed off and refocused.

>

> Unrelated - the last time the 3 of us played together, D&A are jabbering about A's clubs while I tee it up on a par 3 w/ hazards in play, in the midst of a great round for me at that course. Start of my downswing, D clangs A's club and I cold skull one into the crap. HMMMmmmm...maybe related afterall... I smell conspiracy, @lchang!! :)

>

> (Or maybe I need to not go TNT Nitro so much)

Ok, first of all, there was a light shining off the iron face that reflected onto you distracting you. And it was completely by accident and made no sound at all. But, uh, yeah: feel pretty bad about that one, too. Hope this doesn’t feel like a pattern. Errrr, there was the time my son when he was a few years younger, yelled to me right during your backswing on 18 (all of these were on the same course!). Ok maybe there’s a pattern! ?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️

We play round robin (6-6-6) and flip the burger (even better) a lot and this scenario comes up a lot.

You were well within your right to concede A’s putt in the better ball (6-6-6) match. The putt is good and can not be rescinded for that match.

In the A-C individual match, you are an outside agency. C did not concede the putt. Then you moved the ball. The ball is replaced, and at that point, C can concede it or make A putt it.

We usually also have a skins game going among the other groups. So we’ll say stuff like, “That putt is good in the team game and the individual match, but you have to putt it for the skins game.”

You just have to keep everything straight when playing multiple games in multiple forms.

This is more of an etiquette questions and it would come down the customs and traditions and those in the wager. That someone went on tilt due to conceded 2ft putt is crazy. Sounds it's putt everything out when you play with Mr. C.