Ben Hogan 1988 Redline vs 1999 Apex Blade

I am curious to know how the 1988 Redline compares to the 1999 Apex. I had a set of the 1999 blades but sold them a while back, regretfully. I am going to buy another set but was curious to know how the Redlines compared. I have heard that many think it's Hogans best iron made. The 1999 is buttery smooth and has a fairly generous sweetspot for a blade. Do these clubs have the same feel and is the sweetspot size similar? I can hit the 1999 Apex but it does have a generous hitting zone for a blade. Will striking the Redlines prove to be more difficult? Any input would be very appreciated.

Have never hit the '99's but have had the '88's since they came out, and they are great clubs. Not that hard to hit--which is a comment I've gotten several times from other golfers who were curious to hit blades. Really sweet when contact is good.

Prior to that, had a set of '79 or '80 Apex "cameo" blades which were a little more difficult to hit than the '88's. FWIW, I've also picked up a set of Mizuno MP60's which are a little less sweet on good strikes...but maybe a little more forgiving than the '88's --kind of in between pure blades and a Ping type cavity back.

I have both sets of irons. IF you can consistently hit the sweet spot, there is no difference in playability between the two irons IMHO (assuming the same flex Apex shafts). If you are little looser on your swings, the '99s are definitely more forgiving than the '88s.

[quote name='dpark' timestamp='1323491279' post='3919397']
I have both sets of irons. IF you can consistently hit the sweet spot, there is no difference in playability between the two irons IMHO (assuming the same flex Apex shafts). If you are little looser on your swings, the '99s are definitely more forgiving than the '88s.
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If you want to know the difference and the story behind the design of the '99 and how the Apex Redline was an influence you can google a pdf document from Jeffsheetsdesign who along with Lanny Wadkins was responsible in their creation. Interesting read on how Spalding was very serious about keeping the Hogan brand alive.

[quote name='b4rn0wl' timestamp='1323437466' post='3915621']
I am curious to know how the 1988 Redline compares to the 1999 Apex. I had a set of the 1999 blades but sold them a while back, regretfully. I am going to buy another set but was curious to know how the Redlines compared. I have heard that many think it's Hogans best iron made. The 1999 is buttery smooth and has a fairly generous sweetspot for a blade. Do these clubs have the same feel and is the sweetspot size similar? I can hit the 1999 Apex but it does have a generous hitting zone for a blade. Will striking the Redlines prove to be more difficult? Any input would be very appreciated.
[/quote]

I'm not usually much of a poster but this is a topic near to my heart. I also have both the '88s and the '99s (and most other years too!). Together with the '73 blades I think they comprise the best of the Hogan line so you can't really go wrong, it's more a matter of preference.

Sutton and Frosty liked the '88 Redlines and I have to admit they sit beautifully and perform very well, especially the short irons which are just a masterful design. Many believe that the Redline Hogan short irons are simply unequaled. I've worn out more than one set of 'em. To me, the '99s don't sit quite as pretty as the '88s and feel the most "crisp", perhaps because of the firmer 1030 steel used in the (Endo Japan not Ft. Worth or Chicago) forging. Nonetheless, they are very, very solid and reliable performers. Just ask Langer who can't quite bring himself to file for divorce from them despite Adams pressures.

As far as playability goes, I've always gravitated toward performance results. That gravity has mostly landed me on the blades planet. I don't think either of these Hogan blades are really any harder to hit than cavity backs, except maybe the longest long irons. They both perform very well for solid strikers.

(For all it's worth, since I am free to be a brand Ho, my recent rotating stable of iron set "performers" is: '99 Hogan Apex, Scratch SB-1 and Titleist 670.......classic muscle stuff (but the Titleist 735CM set ain't bad either....maybe the best combo set I've ever used)

Good hunting b4rnOwl

OTP

I have read that 1994 was the last year of Ft. Worth forgings. Do you know if that is so? Is there a resource that kist at the years of production for all Hogan irons?

I played Apex II's in the mid 80's and PC's in the early 90's and wish I had kept those sets...oh well.

Don't recall any sets of LH Apex PCs... Redlines....Channelbacks.....

Lefthander Sam Adams (the PGA Tour golf pro, not the beer) won the Quad Cities Open over 36 years ago with Hogan Apex irons.

For you Hogan lovers I am going to post the 1999 and the 2006 model for sale shortly. I have used the Red Lines (and several other models, I'm a Hogan Whore), the 1999 model is much easier to hit.

hard to say what's the [i]best[/i] Hogan blade, I mean, he has his name on some awesome clubs through the 50's on...

Some of his [i]personal designs[/i], as it were, are stunning to regard.
I played both redlines models, the first one from '88 and then the last one in '94 with the Ft Worth on the hosel and they were not the same clubs. The '94 has a more overt muscle back and a tad bulkier than the first line of redlines from '88.

I cant say which of all the lines is 'the best', but I guess I prefer the Apex IIs from '83 most. A smallish muscle back with a rakish look and stunning performance.

they can be had cheap boys!

Jack, I picked up a set of Apex ll's a month and a half ago. I think I said in an earlier post somewhere that they looked unhit! 2-pitch . I have mp32's,33's, several sets of Wilson staff blades and currently have TM 92 Aussie blades in the bag. The Apex ll's are just as sweet as anything I have ever hit! An off center hit still seems to go a long way!

[quote name='Ricco' timestamp='1335921428' post='4828040']
Jack, I picked up a set of Apex ll's a month and a half ago. I think I said in an earlier post somewhere that they looked unhit! 2-pitch . I have mp32's,33's, several sets of Wilson staff blades and currently have TM 92 Aussie blades in the bag. The Apex ll's are just as sweet as anything I have ever hit! An off center hit still seems to go a long way!
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Hogan brought me back to blades.
The Apex IIs (congrats on the scoop!) just look so amazing behind the ball and feel as good as any American forged iron does, and they do have a little muscle back on them. Not at all impossible to use, especially in an era where the 4,3,2 irons aren't often in people's bags.
They are the perfect size for a club head.

Enjoy.

I have five sets of Hogan blades that I alternate playing. They are the '88 Redlines, '90 BH Grind, '93 Apex FT, '95 Channelbacks, and '99 Apex. They all feel and play great with the difference being the lofts of the older clubs are slightly weaker. I haven't had the '99 Apex very long, but so far I like it as much as all the others. I ran across the man (Tom Blough) who was the VP of Engineering for the Hogan Company from the mid 80's to the mid 90's. To shed some light on the forging question that keeps coming up, Cornell Foundry in Chicago forged all of the irons for the Hogan Company until the company was moved to Virginia in '94. At that point the forgings were then acquired from Endo in Japan. Even when the company was moved back to Fort Worth the forgings were still supplied by Endo. Fort Worth had the skilled craftsmen who machined, grooved, ground, chrome plated, and assembled all the clubs. Fort Worth did not have forging capabilities. The last Cornell iron forged for the Hogan company was the '93 Apex FT that has Ft. Worth stamped on the hosel. Cornell should get some credit for the role they played in all the successful irons produced for the Hogan Company, but I believe Endo is also a premier forging house.

I agree with those who have said that if you have a consistent swing you will hardly notice any difference between any of these models. It's important to note that other than how the BH Grind is finished on the backside, it's looks to be exactly the same forging as the Redline. So if you can't find the Redline for the price you want, you might find a set of BH Grinds more reasonable. There are so many great reviews of the Apex II that now I'm thinking I should pick up a set of those and possibly a set of Apex PC's too.

[quote name='al_romig' timestamp='1374561643' post='7519922']

I agree with those who have said that if you have a consistent swing you will hardly notice any difference between any of these models. It's important to note that other than how the BH Grind is finished on the backside, it's looks to be exactly the same forging as the Redline. So if you can't find the Redline for the price you want, you might find a set of BH Grinds more reasonable. There are so many great reviews of the Apex II that now I'm thinking I should pick up a set of those and possibly a set of Apex PC's too.
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That's interesting what your saying about the BH Grinds, I looked over a set recently and thought that they were real nice looking blades. I've never handled the 88 Redlines so I had no real idea of the similarities. The only Hogans I own currently are '74 Directors & 65 Percussion's, they're not in play as the shafts are too soft for me. The Cameo's, PC's and Redlines have been on my radar some time now...

j

Grinds have a significantly more square toe line than Redlines, which are quite round. Grinds seem very close to Apex II's in that regard. I've played 99's, Grinds, PC's, Redlines and Apex II's and I would agree that 99's are probably more forgiving than the others, but only slightly so.

[quote name='rtv' timestamp='1374604609' post='7523372']
Grinds have a significantly more square toe line than Redlines, which are quite round. Grinds seem very close to Apex II's in that regard. I've played 99's, Grinds, PC's, Redlines and Apex II's and I would agree that 99's are probably more forgiving than the others, but only slightly so.
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I must concede that the toe of the Grind is sharper than the Redlines and the relief grind on the back is a little different, but from playing both, I don't think I could tell the which I was hitting if the toe was covered.

[quote name='fluffy265' timestamp='1374573323' post='7520178']
[quote name='al_romig' timestamp='1374561643' post='7519922']
I agree with those who have said that if you have a consistent swing you will hardly notice any difference between any of these models. It's important to note that other than how the BH Grind is finished on the backside, it's looks to be exactly the same forging as the Redline. So if you can't find the Redline for the price you want, you might find a set of BH Grinds more reasonable. There are so many great reviews of the Apex II that now I'm thinking I should pick up a set of those and possibly a set of Apex PC's too.
[/quote]

That's interesting what your saying about the BH Grinds, I looked over a set recently and thought that they were real nice looking blades. I've never handled the 88 Redlines so I had no real idea of the similarities. The only Hogans I own currently are '74 Directors & 65 Percussion's, they're not in play as the shafts are too soft for me. The Cameo's, PC's and Redlines have been on my radar some time now...

j
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You could always get your Directors and Percussions back in play by getting them reshafted. One of the heads from my BH Grinds came off and I then noticed that all the hosel pins were missing. This suggested to me that all the shafts may have been replaced. There were no bands on the shafts when I got them either, so I wasn't certain they were even Apex shafts. I pulled the shafts and replaced them with KBS Tour shaft pulls that I found on eBay for $80. They're sweet hitting irons now and I know none of the heads will ever come flying off again.

Just picked up a set of 88' redlines. Can't wait to get them and get down the course

which model apex did justin lenard win the british open with? you have to give spalding credit. they tried to offer some really high quality hogan models.its just that it was too late it seems. i love the 99 apex+ so soft feeling

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1390913911' post='8549515']
which model apex did justin lenard win the british open with? you have to give spalding credit. they tried to offer some really high quality hogan models.its just that it was too late it seems. i love the 99 apex+ so soft feeling
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Justin played the '94 Channel Backs.

thanks sweet looking blades-were those the last hogan irons to win a major?. it would take some work -but wouldnt you like to know who has the most major wins. hogan -macgreggor or wilson. seems jack carried mac all by himself for a long time.

[quote name='Coleygolfer' timestamp='1390913124' post='8549477']
Just picked up a set of 88' redlines. Can't wait to get them and get down the course
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Congrats to you! The '88 Redline blades remind me of my '74 Apex blades everytime I see them. I hope they serve you well!

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1390935804' post='8551915']
thanks sweet looking blades-were those the last hogan irons to win a major?. it would take some work -but wouldnt you like to know who has the most major wins. hogan -macgreggor or wilson. seems jack carried mac all by himself for a long time.
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Don't forget about Johnny Miller, Tom Weiskopf, Tom Watson and David Graham.

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1390935804' post='8551915']
thanks sweet looking blades-were those the last hogan irons to win a major?. it would take some work -but wouldnt you like to know who has the most major wins. hogan -macgreggor or wilson. seems jack carried mac all by himself for a long time.
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Would guess Wilson narrowly from Macgregor, and Hogan a long way back. Wilson of course has the opportunity to add to its tally.

No biggie though. I have one set of Macs stashed at my parents house for visits, 1 Wilson (on long term loan to a pal) and 3 sets of Hogans which I keep at home.

Tour and major wins are as much about custom shop and endorsement money, even back in the day, as the quality of the off the shelf product. I hate to say it, but when I was a kid, Wilson looked very like any of the giants of today with its big, expensively bought tour staff. What was worse, if these things matter to you, was that staff players in those days were probably playing something a bit further from the current retail offering than you see nowadays. Langer was the European poster boy - but I'm pretty sure he was playing a set of old tour blade heads and Hogan shafts. Faldo was a Wilson staffer, and could rarely bring himself to put Wilson heads of any description in his bag. I think he liked Wilson gloves though.

Like pretty much anything else, it's the work that needs done by hand that adds to the cost of a product. So I expect that a tour pro would have access to a level of custom shaping and grinding that most of us can only dream of. Or, for that matter, dream of having the expertise to exploit!

Remember that all of Hogan and Nelson's major wins were with MacGregor...

[quote name='HoganApexBlades' timestamp='1390936686' post='8552011']
[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1390935804' post='8551915']
thanks sweet looking blades-were those the last hogan irons to win a major?. it would take some work -but wouldnt you like to know who has the most major wins. hogan -macgreggor or wilson. seems jack carried mac all by himself for a long time.
[/quote]

Don't forget about Johnny Miller, Tom Weiskopf, Tom Watson and David Graham.
[/quote]

Thought Watson was with Ram? Found an article suggesting he started with them around 1974 or 1975...

all watson,s majors were with ram pretty shure . hogans dominated the 80,s

Who was gaming Hogans in the 80s?

Wadkins, Kite and O'Meara come to mind - though I think O'Meara had moved on before he broke through as a major winner. I'll admit, my perspective as a european is probably a tad skewed, but I don't remember any of the dominant players of that era (Watson, Strange, Norman, Seve, Langer or Faldo) playing Hogans.

[size=5]David Frost......wasn't Strange with Macgregor before going to Maruman?[/size]

[size=5]Kite was a Wilson Staff player before moving to Hogan.[/size]

FWIW, Furyk won the '03 US Open with a set of Apex Plus cavity backs. That model got quite a bit of play on tour in the early 00s. Those and the Titleist DCI 990s. Good times. Not sure if Langer is still bagging the '99 Apex long irons or not--he did for a looooonnnnggg time.

A lot of the pros from Texas in the 80s and 90s started out with Hogan--then they'd sign with another company for more money as they became bigger names. Not sure anyone from the Euro tour ever bagged them.