Who has played the most British Isles courses?

duffer987 · March 13, 2019

I don't think there is a huge gap between Alwoodley, Ganton and Moortown, though I do think Ganton is the best of the three. Being one who despises harsh rough, I am not a huge fan of Ganton or Alwoodley. Both would be greatly improved by clearing out vegetation and offering a bit more space to play the game. This issue is especially annoying at Ganton because the conditions are superb and the bunkering often delightfully provacative. Its disheartening to hit drives down the middle in trying to challenge the bunkers and end up in the rough. The effect of the narrowed fairways (they used to be significantly wider) is if one can't carry the bunkers there is a forced layup. Given the excellent turf and well placed bunkers, it is a great shame that skirting the bunkers has practically been completely removed from the design unless the course is less than keen. Alwoodley doesn't have nearly the same issue with canted fairways off bunkers, but the rough is very penal and reduces the level of fun quite dramatically. Moortown, the least impressive design of the three, gets more from their property because of the presentation of wider fairways and more forgiving rough than the other two courses.

In general, the northern (including Notts & Woodhall Spa) big gun heathland/moorland courses are more rough and tumble compared to the London counterparts...with Walton Heath Old being a rather large exception!

Ciao

We don't need every course to be too open now though.

I really like Ganton. It's a proper grown ups test, without being penal about it IMHO. Apart from say 6 and 13 which really does pinch in in fairness, I cannot think of anywhere a well judged and executed tee ball is getting away from the fairway - barring drought conditions of course. Turning it off of and going over the bunkers and sliding it around the doglegs makes Ganton a treat off the tee, like Formby. You really need to be making a good pass at the ball to set up the approaches.

Of course as an overseas traveling golfer, I am not saying everything needs to be like Portrush - Dunluce (and with my limited exposure I do prefer St. George's Hill, Pulborough, and Swinley Forest to Ganton) but one of the things I look forward to in the UK/Ireland is getting challenged off the tee now and again. As in North America, most of our public 'destination' courses have gone so far to the wide side of the equation that you can get away with some unpleasantness off the tee and not really suffer for it.

El Gringo · March 13, 2019

I don't think there is a huge gap between Alwoodley, Ganton and Moortown, though I do think Ganton is the best of the three. Being one who despises harsh rough, I am not a huge fan of Ganton or Alwoodley. Both would be greatly improved by clearing out vegetation and offering a bit more space to play the game. This issue is especially annoying at Ganton because the conditions are superb and the bunkering often delightfully provacative. Its disheartening to hit drives down the middle in trying to challenge the bunkers and end up in the rough. The effect of the narrowed fairways (they used to be significantly wider) is if one can't carry the bunkers there is a forced layup. Given the excellent turf and well placed bunkers, it is a great shame that skirting the bunkers has practically been completely removed from the design unless the course is less than keen. Alwoodley doesn't have nearly the same issue with canted fairways off bunkers, but the rough is very penal and reduces the level of fun quite dramatically. Moortown, the least impressive design of the three, gets more from their property because of the presentation of wider fairways and more forgiving rough than the other two courses.

In general, the northern (including Notts & Woodhall Spa) big gun heathland/moorland courses are more rough and tumble compared to the London counterparts...with Walton Heath Old being a rather large exception!

Ciao
We don't need every course to be too open now though.
I really like Ganton. It's a proper grown ups test, without being penal about it IMHO. Apart from say 6 and 13 which really does pinch in in fairness, I cannot think of anywhere a well judged and executed tee ball is getting away from the fairway - barring drought conditions of course. Turning it off of and going over the bunkers and sliding it around the doglegs makes Ganton a treat off the tee, like Formby. You really need to be making a good pass at the ball to set up the approaches.

Of course as an overseas traveling golfer, I am not saying everything needs to be like Portrush - Dunluce (and with my limited exposure I do prefer St. George's Hill, Pulborough, and Swinley Forest to Ganton) but one of the things I look forward to in the UK/Ireland is getting challenged off the tee now and again. As in North America, most of our public 'destination' courses have gone so far to the wide side of the equation that you can get away with some unpleasantness off the tee and not really suffer for it.

There is plenty of room to disagree between reasonable folks. Ganton is afterall a championship course. However, Ganton's design is not properly shown in its current state...despite the recent reconstruction of Pandy which is a great step forward to making 17 & 18 better holes. IMO, Ganton would be a better course if it better supported fast and firm conditions. When I was there, the turf was second to none and the conditioning of the fairways and greens was superb...couldn't ask for better. Last I measured on several holes, Ganton had an average width of 36 yard wide fairways. Add in firmness, slope of fairways against the turn of doglegs, wind and severe rough, 36 yards is not wide enough to make the bunkering meaningful in terms of it being worth the risk of trying to skirt the bunkers. To me, 2, 3, 7, 8, 13, 14 & 16 were call compromised by overly narrow fairways and/or rough which was far too harsh. Essentially, the narrowness plays into the hands of long hitters because they can carry most of the important bunkers to more open parts of the course. That sort of presentation makes little sense to me if we really want to make what are some terrific bunkers truly meaningful. Another 10 yards of fairway and jungle clearance would make the world of difference.

Ciao

duffer987 · March 14, 2019

We don't need every course to be too open now though.
I really like Ganton. It's a proper grown ups test, without being penal about it IMHO. Apart from say 6 and 13 which really does pinch in in fairness, I cannot think of anywhere a well judged and executed tee ball is getting away from the fairway - barring drought conditions of course. Turning it off of and going over the bunkers and sliding it around the doglegs makes Ganton a treat off the tee, like Formby. You really need to be making a good pass at the ball to set up the approaches.

Of course as an overseas traveling golfer, I am not saying everything needs to be like Portrush - Dunluce (and with my limited exposure I do prefer St. George's Hill, Pulborough, and Swinley Forest to Ganton) but one of the things I look forward to in the UK/Ireland is getting challenged off the tee now and again. As in North America, most of our public 'destination' courses have gone so far to the wide side of the equation that you can get away with some unpleasantness off the tee and not really suffer for it.

There is plenty of room to disagree between reasonable folks. Ganton is afterall a championship course. However, Ganton's design is not properly shown in its current state...despite the recent reconstruction of Pandy which is a great step forward to making 17 & 18 better holes. IMO, Ganton would be a better course if it better supported fast and firm conditions. When I was there, the turf was second to none and the conditioning of the fairways and greens was superb...couldn't ask for better. Last I measured on several holes, Ganton had an average width of 36 yard wide fairways. Add in firmness, slope of fairways against the turn of doglegs, wind and severe rough, 36 yards is not wide enough to make the bunkering meaningful in terms of it being worth the risk of trying to skirt the bunkers. To me, 2, 3, 7, 8, 13, 14 & 16 were call compromised by overly narrow fairways and/or rough which was far too harsh. Essentially, the narrowness plays into the hands of long hitters because they can carry most of the important bunkers to more open parts of the course. That sort of presentation makes little sense to me if we really want to make what are some terrific bunkers truly meaningful. Another 10 yards of fairway and jungle clearance would make the world of difference.

Ciao

Fair enough. Maybe I hit a red riding hoodesque sweet spot between being too long a hitter and too short a hitter so enjoy it. Or playing the yellows at 6450 changes things up some vs the 6700 whites. For the record I last played it May '18 and Sept '15 before that, as my point of reference.

3 is driveable (boo subsequent 3 putt last time out) or an easy iron/hybrid between the bunkers, think any opening up just makes it easier without adding any genuine options. 2 fand 8 fit my eye/swing.

After taking another look I was off one when I said 6 I meant 7. As a drawer of the ball I agree that is tricky, I put one right along/over those bunkers and still ended up in the left rough, such is the camber.

Agree 13 per prior post and yeah 14 needs wind to be anything other than an iron/hybrid + wedge.

16 not sure what they can do, unless they chop those 2/3 trees down on the left side, as the way it falls away towards the road on the right doesn't leave them much on that side. That said, taken with the genre of tournament courses I think it makes for a proper, execute two well struck shots strong, very strong par 4. Be a fun way to close out a match :)

I guess maybe their choices are driven some by being an "England Golf Championship Venue"?

jonnymc44 · March 22, 2019

My dad's friend has played the top 100 UK courses. He has a ball marker from each one. If they didn't have a ball marker in the pro shop at the time he played he'd go back, play again and pick up a marker. He retired at 56 few years ago and has a camper van so just travels around finding hidden gems and adding new additions to the top 100 each year. What a life!

I've only played 8 of the top 100. Played many more regional courses when I was a junior and played for the club team. A few of my favourites, in no particular order: Royal Birkdale, Old Course, Silloth, Ganton, Formby, Hillside (back 9), Royal St David's, Notts Hollinwell.