Recoil 95 vs Project X LZ Tour vs steel

[Mr Fade]

I know the steel vs graphite debate is up and running every once in a while, but I have a few specific questions that I need your help with. First, I like an iron shaft in the 90-95 gram range. Especially since I want them at +1. In the Mizuno fitting chart, there are five of them: Recoil, LZ Tour, KBS Tour 90, xp95 and Nippon 950. I have played a lot with both the KBS and the xp, and quite a bit with 950. They are pretty close with (to me anyway) the Nippon feeling the smoothest, the xp the softest and the KBS the most stable. Still, they are all soft tip for high launch. Always reg flex for me.

 

The first question hence is how the graphite options, LZ Tour and Recoil 95, compares to the three steel shafts? Anyone hit all these shafts in a Mizuno fitting? My only previous experience with a graphite iron shaft in this weight range is the Matrix Studio 94, which was a more mid/low launching shaft compared to the steel shafts above. The LZ and Recoil are described as mid launch. Would you describe them as more stable, "stiffer", lower launching etc than the steel shafts or would you say they are similar?

 

The second question is how you percieve the differences between the LZ Tour and the Recoil 95? The Recoils are 5 grams heavier and the LZ Tours are described as stiffer in but and tip, but softer in the mid section. Thats about all the info I have managed to gather...

 

Looking forward to hear about your experiences! Thanks!

[ChipNRun]

The LZ Tour is a lightweight graphite which varies in weight from 80-89 grams, whether in 5.0 or 6.0 flex. Shafts have firm tip and firm butt (.615 inch at end). but give extra flex in middle for medium launch. I have not hit this shaft.

See site: https://www.pxshaft....-graphite-iron/

 

Recoil 95 in F3-R and F4-S both range in weight from 90-96 grams. Specs indicate a lower launching, medium trajectory flight.

See site: https://www.ustmamiy...recoil-95-iron/

 

The Recoil 95 F3-R has ended up on my short list from several demo-day rough fittings. It has a good feel, and I would need launch data to see whether F3-R or F4-S would work best.

 

I'd say the LX Tour and Recoil versions are close enough together you would need to do a side-by-side to see which one you like best. They should launch a bit lower than the steel shafts you mentioned.

_________________________

 

As for the others, I played the NS Pro 8950GH (slightly higher launch than 950) in my Calla X20 Tours for five seasons. It worked well.

 

Now I have the KBS Tour 90 in my CB Pro Tungstens. I find the Tour 90 to be a solid but lively shaft. I spray the ball a bit left to right with it, but have very good distance control.

 

---------------------

Correction Note: Of course, the Mizuno iron head you choose will have a big impact on how well a given shaft works for you.

---------------------

[Mr Fade]

The LZ Tour is a lightweight graphite which varies in weight from 80-89 grams, whether in 5.0 or 6.0 flex. Shafts have firm tip and firm butt (.615 inch at end). but give extra flex in middle for medium launch. I have not hit this shaft.

See site: https://www.pxshaft....-graphite-iron/

 

Recoil 95 in F3-R and F4-S both range in weight from 90-96 grams. Specs indicate a lower launching, medium trajectory flight.

See site: https://www.ustmamiy...recoil-95-iron/

 

The Recoil 95 F3-R has ended up on my short list from several demo-day rough fittings. It has a good feel, and I would need launch data to see whether F3-R or F4-S would work best.

 

I'd say the LX Tour and Recoil versions are close enough together you would need to do a side-by-side to see which one you like best. They should launch a bit lower than the steel shafts you mentioned.

_________________________

 

As for the others, I played the NS Pro 8950GH (slightly higher launch than 950) in my Calla X20 Tours for five seasons. It worked well.

 

Now I have the KBS Tour 90 in my CB Pro Tungstens. I find the Tour 90 to be a solid but lively shaft. I spray the ball a bit left to right with it, but have very good distance control.

 

---------------------

Correction Note: Of course, the Mizuno iron head you choose will have a big impact on how well a given shaft works for you.

---------------------

 

Thanks! Based on weight alone the LZ Tour might be a good option for me. I I had great numbers with the N.S Pro 8950 in a fitting a few years back, which is similar regarding weight. That said, I am thinking of the recoils as a lower launching shaft... I am going with the Hot Metals so launch and height is coming from the head rather than shaft. It´s quite windy where I play so no need for a high launch shaft in combination with the Hot Metals. On the other hand, the lower loft on every one of these distance irons might need the help of the likes of a xp95...

 

Anyone compared these shafts to each other? Especially the graphite options? When searching, there are A LOT more talk about the recoils over the years. Not as many got fitted with the LZ Tour I guess.

 

I am also kind of interested in the ascending weight in the recoils. Seems good to have a similar or higher weight shaft in the short irons. That would indicate a progressive swingweight, right?

[Stuart_G]

No experience with the LZ graphite but the Recoils is a bit stiffer feeling (IMO) than both the xp and kbs 90. Likely the stiffest of the options.

 

"Stable" really isn't the best term to use when describing shaft stiffness. Some people mistakenly equate a stiffer shaft with a more stable shaft - but don't let that fool you into thinking it will mean more consistent results. That's not how the shaft or the swing works. The most consistent results will come when the feel is just right for you, not too stiff, not too soft. What level of stiffness that might be is something you can only find out yourself by testing various options. So use any past experience with what worked and what hasn't worked - or even what felt good - to help guide you.

[Mr Fade]

No experience with the LZ graphite but the Recoils is a bit stiffer feeling (IMO) than both the xp and kbs 90. Likely the stiffest of the options.

 

"Stable" really isn't the best term to use when describing shaft stiffness. Some people mistakenly equate a stiffer shaft with a more stable shaft - but don't let that fool you into thinking it will mean more consistent results. That's not how the shaft or the swing works. The most consistent results will come when the feel is just right for you, not too stiff, not too soft. What level of stiffness that might be is something you can only find out yourself by testing various options. So use any past experience with what worked and what hasn't worked - or even what felt good - to help guide you.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience! The recoils might be ok for me if they are (a bit) stiffer feeling than xp and kbs tour 90. However, only if we talk nuances. I´m not interested in a heavy and stiff shaft by any means. Would you say that your impression of stiffer feeling is down to the actual bend profile of the shaft? I mean, the torque is higher than the steel options, which in my experience gives you a feeling of soft rather than stiff. On the other hand, I think the tip stiffness in itself might be stiffer in the recoils. I have no actual measurement though. Just speculating.

[Stuart_G]

Yes, it is the bend profile (including tip stiffness). For the majority of players, torque mostly just effects the feel of impact, not really of general stiffness. And more so on off-center hits then when the sweet spot is nailed.

[Mr Fade]

Yes, it is the bend profile (including tip stiffness). For the majority of players, torque mostly just effects the feel of impact, not really of general stiffness. And more so on off-center hits then when the sweet spot is nailed.

 

Would you rate the stiffness of the recoil 95 closer to a little bit heavier shaft? Let´s say a Modus 105? I was surprised when looking at the titleist shaft comparison chart to find the recoils closer to the Dynamic Gold then Nippon 950, regarding launch and spin that is. Still a lightweight shaft of course.

[Stuart_G]

Yes, it is the bend profile (including tip stiffness). For the majority of players, torque mostly just effects the feel of impact, not really of general stiffness. And more so on off-center hits then when the sweet spot is nailed.

 

Would you rate the stiffness of the recoil 95 closer to a little bit heavier shaft? Let´s say a Modus 105? I was surprised when looking at the titleist shaft comparison chart to find the recoils closer to the Dynamic Gold then Nippon 950, regarding launch and spin that is. Still a lightweight shaft of course.

 

First off, please don't assume any correlation between stiffness and weight. The two are fairly independent design choices by the designers. Well, in steel there will be some more restrictions than graphite at the extremes but there is still a lot of room for the designers to play with.

 

But until you get into the 125/130 weights for the Nippons, the Nippons are relatively soft shafts compared to most other steels. I haven't seen hard data on the Recoils to support it (and no personal experience with the Nippons) but from what I've read here, I'd expect the Recoils to be noticeably stiffer than the Nippon 105's. I've had some grips with Titleists chart for certain shafts but I think the placement of the Recoils is not that far off. I'd personally put them closer to the KBS Tours (heavier originals) but with a softer (smoother) butt side stiffness.

 

But, for full disclosure, feels can vary a lot between different individuals so testing is the only way to really be sure and validate any of this.

[RainShadow]

I've tried both and the PX LZ Tour (graphite) just felt dead to me.

I played the Recoil 95 F3 for 3 years in 2014 Apex irons. Really enjoyed them. They may play or feel a bit stiff to flex, but not much. I moved to Steelfiber 110cw stiff after and may take is this:

The Recoil flight was much like KBS Tour, while the Steelfibers flight was closer to DG. The Recoils just feel more alive through the ball.

As far as a comparison between the Modus 105 (which I'm playing now) and the Recoil 95, i think the pronounced kick feel is similar, although the flights are not.

The Recoils are great if your are going graphite. They got rid of my elbow pain rather quickly.

[Stuart_G]

I played the Recoil 95 F3 for 3 years in 2014 Apex irons. Really enjoyed them. They may play or feel a bit stiff to flex, but not much. I moved to Steelfiber 110cw stiff after and may take is this:

 

The Recoil flight was much like KBS Tour, while the Steelfibers flight was closer to DG. The Recoils just feel more alive through the ball.

 

Not surprising since your comparing F3 (reg) Recoils to Stiff Steel fibers. But it's still a common observation even for a same flex comparison, just to a much lesser degree.

 

 

As far as a comparison between the Modus 105 (which I'm playing now) and the Recoil 95, i think the pronounced kick feel is similar, although the flights are not.

 

Is that the stiff Modus 105's or Regulars? I'm guessing stiff.

[RainShadow]

I played the Recoil 95 F3 for 3 years in 2014 Apex irons. Really enjoyed them. They may play or feel a bit stiff to flex, but not much. I moved to Steelfiber 110cw stiff after and may take is this:

 

The Recoil flight was much like KBS Tour, while the Steelfibers flight was closer to DG. The Recoils just feel more alive through the ball.

 

Not surprising since your comparing F3 (reg) Recoils to Stiff Steel fibers. But it's still a common observation even for a same flex comparison, just to a much lesser degree.

 

 

As far as a comparison between the Modus 105 (which I'm playing now) and the Recoil 95, i think the pronounced kick feel is similar, although the flights are not.

 

Is that the stiff Modus 105's or Regulars? I'm guessing stiff.

Stiff

[Stuart_G]

Thanks.

[Bill Guy]

I play Recoil 95 F4 (S) in all my Mizuno JPX900 forged irons and also put them in several wedges. I have to say I am delighted with them and the combo.They produce a strong low to mid laser straight flight for me/ I tried the new JPX919 hot metal with the same shaft in 5 iron and found its chunkier head produced a slightly higher flight.

[duffer987]

I've tried both and the PX LZ Tour (graphite) just felt dead to me.

I played the Recoil 95 F3 for 3 years in 2014 Apex irons. Really enjoyed them. They may play or feel a bit stiff to flex, but not much. I moved to Steelfiber 110cw stiff after and may take is this:

The Recoil flight was much like KBS Tour, while the Steelfibers flight was closer to DG. The Recoils just feel more alive through the ball.

As far as a comparison between the Modus 105 (which I'm playing now) and the Recoil 95, i think the pronounced kick feel is similar, although the flights are not.

The Recoils are great if your are going graphite. They got rid of my elbow pain rather quickly.

To follow on from this good post, I have a question for the gang...

 

I've hit on CFS Regulars and C-Taper Lite 105s as my favorite steel iron shafts and have tried all sorts of graphite/composite shafts and find the UST Recoil 95 F3 my favorites by a long shot.

I actually got some new 919F/Ts with them and do really like them, but it seems they cause more of a twing in the elbow than the steel shafts (which do have Prosoft inserts) do.

 

Should that be the case in comparison to the steel shafts?

I guess - all things being equal - I would have hoped the Recoils to not have any adverse effect on the body, otherwise I might as well just stick with the steel shafts.

[Stuart_G]

To follow on from this good post, I have a question for the gang...

 

I've hit on CFS Regulars and C-Taper Lite 105s as my favorite steel iron shafts and have tried all sorts of graphite/composite shafts and find the UST Recoil 95 F3 my favorites by a long shot.

I actually got some new 919F/Ts with them and do really like them, but it seems they cause more of a twing in the elbow than the steel shafts (which do have Prosoft inserts) do.

 

Should that be the case in comparison to the steel shafts?

I guess - all things being equal - I would have hoped the Recoils to not have any adverse effect on the body, otherwise I might as well just stick with the steel shafts.

 

Completely depends on the specific cause for that twinge and nature of the underlying injury. It's uncommon but not unheard of.

 

The graphite (and prosoft inserts) benefit comes from reducing the shock of impact with the ball/ground and the amount any existing condition may be aggravated by that impact. However, if the injury or aggravation of an existing injury is a result of some action during the swing, and not impact, then the graphite is not going to really provide any help. The only question that would remain is how the swing may have changed and what caused it going from those steel to that graphite. It could be the slightly lighter weight, change in stiffness feel - or something else in the build other than the shaft change - swing weight, head design, grip size, etc.. Any of those could result in a change to rhythm, tempo, grip pressure, the effort put into the swing, the swing plane and AoA, etc... Any of which can change the amount of strain on a particular tendon or other part of the body.

[duffer987]

^Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Your last point was what I was leaning towards, there might be a slight change in my pass at the ball with the Recoils as compared to the CFS/C-Taper Lites, that is doing it more so than the material of the shaft.

[nostatic]

Curious if there are more experiences with the LZ Tour graphite iron shaft, especially compared to Recoil 95. Looking at Hot Metal Pros, bought a test 7-iron with the Recoil 95 F4 and have gotten good results, but curious about the LZ Tour. I know it is a bit lighter, and I can get a bit quick but am about midway through rebuilding my swing and getting flatter and smoother.

[texasspartan]

Just spent a couple hours on the launch monitor yesterday hitting these shafts in various club heads. Settled on the Mizuno 919 hot metal with Project X shafts. Numbers were almost identical with the Recoil shafts. These were consistently better than any of the steel shafts that I tried and I tried four or five different ones. Flip a coin (for me) between the recoil and project x. I load the shaft quite hard at the top of the swing and found these graphite shafts had better overall numbers. It wasn't close on the distance. The launch angle was better, ball speed was better. Can't wait to get them and test them out on the course. The reason I am getting new irons is that a major manufacturer replace my set with the latest and greatest model because the iron inserts kept breaking. It was a very generous gesture on their part but their new irons coupled with the stock shafts they now use are way to soft for me and too light. I lost a club's distance and I have a hard time with consistency with such a light shaft. Played them once didn't want to delay the inevitable.

[johnnybogey]

I finished installed Recoil 95 prototypes F4 SS1x last night and really like them.

 

Came from recoil 110 F4 and Steelfiber i95 stiff SS1x. Moved away from the recoil 110 because I wanted to go down in weight. Moved away from SF i95 because even soft stepped, the shaft just felt dead.

 

I went with the 95 prototypes because I felt the regular recoil 95 would be too high launch. They are perfect. IMO, they sit right in between regular recoils and steelfiber. More torque than regular recoils but not as stout as steelfibers and they still have a kick to them.