Most unforgiving classic blade?

[Wknd_Warrior]

It's come to my attention that my fluid feel Haigs are probably a lot easier to hit than the fabled butter knives of old. I love my clubs, not looking to change, or punish myself lol, but now I'm curious.

 

So what's the most exacting punishing rattle your teeth out finger stinging not a hope of hitting it pure pin busting set of sticks from the old days that will actually perform when weilded properly?

 

I'm not looking for some old cast battleship grey unhittable bargain brand instruments of torture, just a really good forged set that demands precision like no other. And something I can pick up on the bay for a song and play a few rounds with to see what used to separate the wheat from the chaff in the old days.

 

Ordinary steel shafts though, like no older than late 50s.

[ScooterMcTavish]

LOL, opposite of the normal question in a thread.

I thought my Staff 63 Turfrider blades were pretty unhittable. The bore through hosel made them stiff as a bedsheets in winter (even though they had R shafts) and the sweet spot was so small, 80% of shots were hand singers. The 3 iron was so small, it looked like a miniature club, and the rock hard leather grips made sure you felt everything.

Gah!

[Club junkie]

This should be a fun one to watch. Ask this question in the equipment forum and see what happens. I think most wilson staffs have a pretty small sweet spot. I have a set of old PGA Ryder Cup blades. I'm not sure if they have a sweet spot. The grips a very slick leather. If I changed them it would help. Anyway, there always seems to be a set cheap on ebay.

[Blade Junkie]

The only classic blades I've ever hit that gave me stinging hands were the Hogan PCs. Having said that, some of the best shots I have ever hit have been with the same set

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1401159989' post='9371915']
It's come to my attention that my fluid feel Haigs are probably a lot easier to hit than the fabled butter knives of old.

[/quote]

Really? I'd take some convincing that this were true.

But if you want to make life hard and painful, I'd find something with heavy x-flex shafts and either leather or full-cord grips.

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1401159989' post='9371915']
So what's the most exacting punishing rattle your teeth out finger stinging not a hope of hitting it pure pin busting set of sticks from the old days that will actually perform when weilded properly?

[/quote]

For me it would these 1957 Hogan Precisions that I just picked up (not so cheaply) just last week:

[attachment=2244233:Precisions 5-27-14a.jpg]

[attachment=2244237:Precisions 5-27-14b.jpg]

I had high hopes for them since they are in such fantastic shape, including leather grips that are in extremely good shape, especially so after I treated them with leather conditioner and sweated them in the hot humid garage for 2 days.

I'm going to give them one more tryout at the range this week and if they don't get a lot better I'm going to put them back on the market. Right now I'd have to say they are my fourth favorite classic set that I own (out of 4!).

[ScooterMcTavish]

So Holden,

Have those bad boys shipped to work?

Thought the wife was doing the old "stink eye" for any new vintage sets you picked up.

BTW, those look super easy to hit. Not sure what your problem is.

LOL.

[HoldenCornfield]

Lol, she wasn't too enthused, and since I work at home I didn't have that shipping option.

But work has really picked up and Father's Day is just around the corner, right?

[oldschoolrocker]

HC,
Don't give up the ship yet. Sometimes it has taken me a couple of weeks of "wt*o" to get the groove on with a new to me set. Those look outstanding and would be a shame to throw the towell in early.

[Wknd_Warrior]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1401188629' post='9372751']
[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1401159989' post='9371915']
It's come to my attention that my fluid feel Haigs are probably a lot easier to hit than the fabled butter knives of old.

[/quote]

Really? I'd take some convincing that this were true.

But if you want to make life hard and painful, I'd find something with heavy x-flex shafts and either leather or full-cord grips.
[/quote]
leather grips are out lol, I'm not actually looking for hard and painful specifically

[ScooterMcTavish]

[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1401214465' post='9375113']
leather grips are out lol, I'm not actually looking for hard and painful specifically
[/quote]

Man, find some clubs with old cord grips. I had them on my Apex IIs, and they chewed my hands up something fierce.

No wonder Mr. Hogan has such calluses on his hands.

[Ol_Pardner]

Agree with Blade Junkie--Most Unforgiving: Hogan Apex PC; MOST REWARDING: HOGAN APEX PC--> Find that Sweet-Spot, then watch it fly with Laser precision!!! [Of all the things I miss since growing old, I miss my mind and not being able to hit my APEX PCs anymore, the Most!]

[dbuck47]

Back around 1992, I decided I must have a set of hot lofted cavity backs. I am a 14ish handicap, and was about the same or maybe a tad better back then. I had been hitting my 1979 Wilson Staff Tour Blades for 13 years. I had in my mind I would get some PINGs, but the youngster at the golf shop suggested Tommy Armour 845's. He asked what I was playing and I said Wilson Staffs, and he said with all the wisdom and experience his 19 years could muster, "The most traded club in the game."

"Why?" I asked.

"Because they are so hard to hit," he said.

Well, up until then, I had never considered them "hard to hit". I knew you had to hit them properly, and they didn't always go where I wanted, but never had trouble getting them in the air.

Short story long, I bought some Titleist DCI's with the gold pyramid. I liked them and still do. At first, I got more distance and certainly the dispersion was tighter. After a while though, I was hitting the same club for a given distance as before. After about 6-12 months of not touching my Staffs, I picked them up one day and found I could barely get them off the ground. Hmmm.

After that, I re-oriented myself with the Staffs, and made it a point to hit a few balls or play a round with them every month or so.

[birly-shirly]

Every iron has a sweetspot somewhere. But I don't think there's any objective reason in terms of physics or engineering why any one blade style iron should have a larger sweetspot than another, or be any more forgiving in terms of strikes that miss the sweetspot by either a little or a lot.

However, I'm sure that some irons have their sweetspot hidden away somewhere where you are not accustomed to looking for it. That might be a little towards the heel, or it might be out in the middle of the face.

I got a used set of "hard to hit" Apex PCs that have been the set of clubs that I've kept coming back to for 10 or 15 years. I went back to them again just recently and wondered why I'd ever strayed. A few years after I got the Hogans, I got a set of Mizuno TP Originals because I remember hitting a pal's Mizunos in the early 90s and thinking they were the softest iron I could imagine. I hit those Mizunos on occasion for maybe 2 or 3 years, and never liked them or felt I hit them well, until finally something clicked for me this winter and I finally saw what all of the fuss is about.

But a bad fitting could make good clubs hard to hit. Old soft forgings could be knocked out of spec, and that could make them hard to hit. I've bought used sets of irons and found clubs that were easily 4* or 5* out. That's enough to make a long iron punitive, and prone to digging too. The wrong shaft, or the right shaft in the wrong hands, could feel nasty - nasty enough to disrupt your ability to put a good swing on the ball. And too stiff of a shaft, or too hard of a grip, could make your mishits properly sting. You might not hit the ball any worse, but it'll feel awful.

Holden - those Precisions look stunning. I really hope you work things out with them. If ever there was a set that I'd want to like, that would be them. Hopefully OSR will be proven right in time.

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1401206808' post='9374329']
HC,
Don't give up the ship yet. Sometimes it has taken me a couple of weeks of "wt*o" to get the groove on with a new to me set. Those look outstanding and would be a shame to throw the towell in early.
[/quote]

Good advice, OSR. I took the 3, 6, and 9 irons of this set along with the same from my Hogan Medallions, PC7's, and Wilson Turfriders at lunch today to the range. I made a conscious effort to hit the Precisions more in the heel - since they have a longer hosel - and that made a big difference. I really hit the 3 and 6 irons well, the 9 iron not so much -- I think I need to check the swingweight on that one.

The leather grips are causing me a little disconnect still. I'm used to playing a thin, corded rubber grip and have built up some calluses from hitting so many balls this spring. These are tacky for old leather but they're a larger diameter than I'm used to and just don't have the same grit to them.

Normally I would have no compunction about cutting off the original grips for new ones and would have done so already on these but the Hogan Precisions are one of the few iron sets that actually have some collectible value, and more so with original shafts and leather grips.

[super20dan]

hogan pc isnt hard to hit for me whats hard to hit are my old wilson staffs from the 60,s. i played kenneth smith,s for many years till i bought ping eye2,s . after several years with the pings i tried the kenneth smiths again. couldnt get them airborn and you talk about sting from miss hits. a very demanding blade. i gave them away like a fool. my macgregor mt,s have the rough cord grips -they will make a man of you! talk about a grip that lasts

[ScooterMcTavish]

[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1401227273' post='9376661']

The leather grips are causing me a little disconnect still. I'm used to playing a thin, corded rubber grip and have built up some calluses from hitting so many balls this spring. These are tacky for old leather but they're a larger diameter than I'm used to and just don't have the same grit to them.

Normally I would have no compunction about cutting off the original grips for new ones and would have done so already on these but the Hogan Precisions are one of the few iron sets that actually have some collectible value, and more so with original shafts and leather grips.
[/quote]

Leather grips are first God's natural casing for delicious food, then serve as a lovely casing for golf goodness.

Couple of tips:
- Give 'em a good clean with saddle soap - it has moisturizers that soften them up. Plus it gets the oil and eccch off them
- Spray 'em down with leather conditioner; it has oils that are absorbed by the grips for long term rejuvenation
- Dampen part of your golf towel when you are playing them. A slight wipe with water on the leather makes it super tacky - wearing a cabretta (not synthetic) glove also helps with this

I changed the leather grip on my Wilson Harmonized wedge (it was an illegal reminder), and still miss the leather to this day. Some hit a point of no return, but yours certainly sound playable.

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1401227999' post='9376769']
[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1401227273' post='9376661']
The leather grips are causing me a little disconnect still. I'm used to playing a thin, corded rubber grip and have built up some calluses from hitting so many balls this spring. These are tacky for old leather but they're a larger diameter than I'm used to and just don't have the same grit to them.

Normally I would have no compunction about cutting off the original grips for new ones and would have done so already on these but the Hogan Precisions are one of the few iron sets that actually have some collectible value, and more so with original shafts and leather grips.
[/quote]

Leather grips are first God's natural casing for delicious food, then serve as a lovely casing for golf goodness.

Couple of tips:
- Give 'em a good clean with saddle soap - it has moisturizers that soften them up. Plus it gets the oil and eccch off them
- Spray 'em down with leather conditioner; it has oils that are absorbed by the grips for long term rejuvenation
- Dampen part of your golf towel when you are playing them. A slight wipe with water on the leather makes it super tacky - [b]wearing a cabretta (not synthetic) glove also helps with this[/b]

I changed the leather grip on my Wilson Harmonized wedge (it was an illegal reminder), and still miss the leather to this day. Some hit a point of no return, but yours certainly sound playable.
[/quote]

Surely, on a thread such as this, gloves should be out of play. Bare hands and callouses only. Vinegar at owner's discretion.

[Wknd_Warrior]

lol, I just wanna know what it's like to try and play with the clubs Hogan himself would have gladly left in the garage.

[Wknd_Warrior]

It's come to my attention that my fluid feel Haigs are probably a lot easier to hit than the fabled butter knives of old.

 

 

Really? I'd take some convincing that this were true.

 

 

 

I'm not sure, would you call these muscle backs? because they have a bulge half way up the club. This creates a bit of a verticle "cut muscle" type effect I would imagine around the lower hitting area.

 

They have the bore through hosel so the sweet spot is probably pretty close to the center of the club, and the bulge get's larger out towards the toe as well. I find them very forgiving on toe hits, especially inside 170 yards. In fact when I first started playing them I remember making a deliberate effort to move my miss out away from the heel.

 

I figure they were the "gentlemens" clubs of the day, not quite as bone jarring as the offerings from other brands at the time.

 

Those clubs that actually look like a butter knife for real strike me as being fairly brutal, even compared to mine.

[Kirasdad]

[quote name='HoldenCornfield' timestamp='1401203012' post='9373915']
[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1401159989' post='9371915']
So what's the most exacting punishing rattle your teeth out finger stinging not a hope of hitting it pure pin busting set of sticks from the old days that will actually perform when weilded properly?

[/quote]

For me it would these 1957 Hogan Precisions that I just picked up (not so cheaply) just last week:

[attachment=2244233:Precisions 5-27-14a.jpg]


[attachment=2244237:Precisions 5-27-14b.jpg]

I had high hopes for them since they are in such fantastic shape, including leather grips that are in extremely good shape, especially so after I treated them with leather conditioner and sweated them in the hot humid garage for 2 days.

I'm going to give them one more tryout at the range this week and if they don't get a lot better I'm going to put them back on the market. Right now I'd have to say they are my fourth favorite classic set that I own (out of 4!).
[/quote]

I'm right there with you HC. I had a partial set of Precisions 4-9 that I used for most of a season. It was an experience, and to be honest, not a very good one. I did hit some good shots with them from time to time, but it was tough sledding over the long haul. To be fair, I acquired them trom two different sources so they had different shafts, but the flex was the same, and I really think the culprit was clubhead design.These clubs have such a pedigree too. All the Hoganista's rave about them. I suspect it's at least somewhat due to the fact that it was the Hawk's first club that had his name on it, and the fact that they are pretty to look at, as opposed to being played regularly these days. I bet if you took a poll of all of us in this homey corner of golfwrx, you'd find most guys sets are from the 80's, their gamers anyway. My since acquired Apex II's are miles more user friendly than my Precisions.That has held true for me generally in the vintage arena. Anything made before the late 60's, early 70's have been tough, for me anyway. Those clubs are tiny sweet spot diggers for the most part. I played a round with a friend's Hogan Power Thrusts and they were even less friendly than the Precisions. Riley King, one of the real authorities on classic golf and the founder of Persimmon Golf Today (great site BTW) is a big believer in user friendly classics and has articles posted about what to look for, and what to generally avoid. The good news is if you decide to dump them, you'll sell them in a minute and probably make a little for your trouble. My mismatched ones sold quickly on ebay and yours are much nicer.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Yep HC, looking at the pics again, and those sure are some pretty clubs. Elegant, and understated.

[Mitchell]

I once tried a set of Powerbilt Scotch Blades that were particularly difficult for me to hit with any consistency- went back to my set of Golden Ram Tour Grinds and joy immediately returned to iron play.

[JMSDKS]

I have a 1992 Hogan 1 iron with an Apex 5 shaft. When hit perfectly it still feels like a telephone pole and gets about 4 feet off the ground.

[Texsport]

I'd bet these old blades are quite a bit less harsh if shafted with modern graphite iron shafts.

Texsport

[Wknd_Warrior]

[quote name='JMSDKS' timestamp='1401248653' post='9379417']
I have a 1992 Hogan 1 iron with an Apex 5 shaft. When hit perfectly it still feels like a telephone pole and gets about 4 feet off the ground.
[/quote]
lol

[ScooterMcTavish]

[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1401308316' post='9383997']
[quote name='JMSDKS' timestamp='1401248653' post='9379417']
I have a 1992 Hogan 1 iron with an Apex 5 shaft. When hit perfectly it still feels like a telephone pole and gets about 4 feet off the ground.
[/quote]
lol
[/quote]
When I had my Apex II set, it also came with a 1 iron that had an Apex PRO 5 shaft.

Telephone pole is a very apt description.

[Soloman1]

I understand the OP clarified no later than the 1950's, but I can't remember playing 1950's clubs. I'm sure I did in the early 1960's when I started, but I can't remember.

My early 1980's Titlelist Tour Models (1-PW) were about as demanding and unforgiving as my first wife. Good riddance to both of them.

[Swoosh-Thud]

Only remember the 60s clubs. I never liked any of the Wilson staffs at all. The old Titleist Tour blades were just as horrible, not a fan of the Apex IIs either, even though I have a mint set (though better than those other turds). McGs & Palmers were ok. Always liked Rams. I absolutely hated leather grips. I'd rather give up golf than play with those abominations.

[Wknd_Warrior]

No older than the 50s, I'm thinking steel shafted classics