Kansas City - Best Golf/Country Club

[tnord]

i used to play OP all the time, and I'd even be first out in the morning....but that whole wave system totally stinks. you play the front in an hour and a half, then get up to 10 tee and have to wait for multiple groups to go to finish off the wave.

St Andrews is a better course and the pace is better, but it's harder to get on.

Deer Creek is probably a better course than Brookridge, but it doesn't even have a range.

if you're out that far south, Wolf Creek is probably the hardest course in town, but I'm not sure how much fun you'd have as a 20 there.

Going back to your original post...the 27 hole setup at BR is nice, even on Monday you can still go over and play the 9 hole. It's a nice little perk nobody else would have. I fought for years to get an online tee time system there since it can get busy, and they have a little bit of a wonky call-in/day-of-play system there. They finally started it right when i left so i don't know how it's working. But yes, between about 7am and noon on Sat/Sun you have to be on top of things to get a time. It's the drawback of having a full membership.

The whole Brookridge thing really kinda makes me both sad and angry. If the previous owners' plans were just to sell out to a land developer, i don't understand why they piled so much money into the clubhouse, hired GREAT staff, etc. If the financials weren't going well at BR....why did they buy Leawood and go through the same process?

Meadowbrook selling out and shutting down makes sense. I did not like that golf course and they are (were?) really short on membership. Brookridge makes me wonder what the state of things are when a full, successful, profitable, attainable, "every man" golf club can't survive.

[tnord]

i used to play OP all the time, and I'd even be first out in the morning....but that whole wave system totally stinks. you play the front in an hour and a half, then get up to 10 tee and have to wait for multiple groups to go to finish off the wave.

St Andrews is a better course and the pace is better, but it's harder to get on.

Deer Creek is probably a better course than Brookridge, but it doesn't even have a range.

if you're out that far south, Wolf Creek is probably the hardest course in town, but I'm not sure how much fun you'd have as a 20 there.

Going back to your original post...the 27 hole setup at BR is nice, even on Monday you can still go over and play the 9 hole. It's a nice little perk nobody else would have. I fought for years to get an online tee time system there since it can get busy, and they have a little bit of a wonky call-in/day-of-play system there. They finally started it right when i left so i don't know how it's working. But yes, between about 7am and noon on Sat/Sun you have to be on top of things to get a time. It's the drawback of having a full membership.

The whole Brookridge thing really kinda makes me both sad and angry. If the previous owners' plans were just to sell out to a land developer, i don't understand why they piled so much money into the clubhouse, hired GREAT staff, etc. If the financials weren't going well at BR....why did they buy Leawood and go through the same process?

Meadowbrook selling out and shutting down makes sense. I did not like that golf course and they are (were?) really short on membership. Brookridge makes me wonder what the state of things are when a full, successful, profitable, attainable, "every man" golf club can't survive.

[artica]

[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1429470436' post='11392601']If I lived at 159th and Antioch, I would be joining Wolf Creek. Last I heard, their junior memberships were very reasonable considering the quality of coarse.[/quote]

I would but I would like my daughters to join me more often, get them enrolled in junior programs. The family part of this is important to me. Wolf creek is men only right?

[artica]

[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1429470436' post='11392601']If I lived at 159th and Antioch, I would be joining Wolf Creek. Last I heard, their junior memberships were very reasonable considering the quality of coarse.[/quote]

I would but I would like my daughters to join me more often, get them enrolled in junior programs. The family part of this is important to me. Wolf creek is men only right?

[QMany]

[quote name='artica' timestamp='1429471534' post='11392683']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1429470436' post='11392601']If I lived at 159th and Antioch, I would be joining Wolf Creek. Last I heard, their junior memberships were very reasonable considering the quality of coarse.[/quote]
I would but I would like my daughters to join me more often, get them enrolled in junior programs. The family part of this is important to me. Wolf creek is men only right?
[/quote]
Family is more important. Personally, I hate their men-only rules. I would probably join the club if my fiancé would be able to join me for dinner.

It is unfortunate that Ironhorse pace of play has gotten so slow. I feel they have one of the best practice facilities in town.

[QMany]

[quote name='artica' timestamp='1429471534' post='11392683']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1429470436' post='11392601']If I lived at 159th and Antioch, I would be joining Wolf Creek. Last I heard, their junior memberships were very reasonable considering the quality of coarse.[/quote]
I would but I would like my daughters to join me more often, get them enrolled in junior programs. The family part of this is important to me. Wolf creek is men only right?
[/quote]
Family is more important. Personally, I hate their men-only rules. I would probably join the club if my fiancé would be able to join me for dinner.

It is unfortunate that Ironhorse pace of play has gotten so slow. I feel they have one of the best practice facilities in town.

[tnord]

FWIW...i thought BR was a pretty family friendly place in multiple ways.

the pool area always had lots of kids to play with, the clubhouse dress code isn't so stuffy that it makes it a pain to bring kids, the jr golf program utilizes the 9 hole course which is very beginner friendly (but still interesting enough for some monday practice), and has multiple tees for different "levels" of jr golfer marked in the fairways. many social events were also kid friendly.

the old pro used to have multi-day jr golf clinics which to me always seemed VERY well attended, and the jr golf "league" seemed to happen every friday over on the 9 hole. i drove by there on my way to work and always saw the parents and kids over there early on friday morning.

is John Leineman still the GM there? He came from Wolf Creek and I thought he was a really good guy that I had a lot of confidence in to make the right changes.

[tnord]

FWIW...i thought BR was a pretty family friendly place in multiple ways.

the pool area always had lots of kids to play with, the clubhouse dress code isn't so stuffy that it makes it a pain to bring kids, the jr golf program utilizes the 9 hole course which is very beginner friendly (but still interesting enough for some monday practice), and has multiple tees for different "levels" of jr golfer marked in the fairways. many social events were also kid friendly.

the old pro used to have multi-day jr golf clinics which to me always seemed VERY well attended, and the jr golf "league" seemed to happen every friday over on the 9 hole. i drove by there on my way to work and always saw the parents and kids over there early on friday morning.

is John Leineman still the GM there? He came from Wolf Creek and I thought he was a really good guy that I had a lot of confidence in to make the right changes.

[pdakc]

[quote name='tnord' timestamp='1429464927' post='11392205']
there's a guy on here that joined lionsgate recently who was at brookridge with me for 3 years or so before we moved. he'll probably find this eventually.

i was there for maybe 4 years after the clubhouse remodel....i'd be really surprised if they weren't making decent money on the place. golf membership was full the entire time i was there, for both the 18 and the 9 hole side, F&B was a breakeven (good for private clubs), and they kept raising dues. if it was such a horrible business model and they were doing poorly, i don't know why the same owners would buy Leawood South and do the exact same thing.

i was on the "member advisory board" for a couple years as well, and since it was a privately held club i didn't know the exact financials, but i certainly didn't get the impression they were struggling for cash flow.

and the gym was GREAT. i don't remember it really ever being prohibitively busy...except for Jan 2 through March 1, as is typical, and it wasn't even that bad then.

i'd join there again if the price was right and i had a good way out if the developer decides to shut the place down.
[/quote]

TNord - I think I need some further clairification on my comment as to BR's financial situation. While I do believe they were profitable, or at least maintainable, previously, my comment was intended to address the fact that the new owners paid approximately 3 times what the club initially sold for back in 2008 i think? and now, their debt being increased by $10MM or so requires a different financial model to cover those expenses. While the club may have been making money when the debt was $5mm, when it's $17.5MM (sale price last year), you have a much larger mountain to climb. You are correct in that their business model did translate (relatively) well to Leawood SOuth, from what I understand.

As far as Lion's Gate goes, I left Loch Lloyd last year for myriad issues, but one of them being that Lion's Gate is exponentially closer for me, and a hell of a deal.

ARTICA - if you contact Nick Trias at Lionsgate and tell him you're interested in a junior membership, he will send you all the details. PM me if you can't find his email on the Lions Gate website.

[artica]

Pdakc, thanks for the note. In touch with Nick via email. Just a few exchanges so far. I asked for a visit this Friday. I will update you as things develop. I appreciate the help so far, Evan has also been very helpful.

[tnord]

pdakc - thanks for that. i didn't realize you were talking about the financial model of the new ownership, and not the two private investors that owned it previously.

sidebar - has leawood south's membership recovered?

[pdakc]

Not sure about Leawood South. I know a couple members who rave about the place, but I also know that they (along with blue hills and probably everywhere in JOCO) got slammed by an influx of new members with the demise of Meadowbrook. What surprises me the most is how Lionsgate has really presented some very reasonable offers for membership, especially without longterm commitments and other things typically found in higher end clubs. i think the financial security of being a ClubCorp club probably allows them to get away with more. I am still throwing around the idea of joining there, but with a 5 month old at home and a wife who just quit her job to stay home full time, I'm going to wait a bit for my finances to normalize before signing up, me thinks.

Tnord - How is Prairie Dunes so far this year? I made it out for my first trip last June and havent stopped thinking about it since then. I even tried to convince my wife that we should join as national members, but she wasn't having any of that. Unbelievable track, can't wait to get back sometime.

[dlygrisse]

Take a look at Blue Hills as a good option, IMO a great course with a nice facility. Right off of state line road down south on the MO side.

[dlygrisse]

If you want a good deal, look at Canyon Farms, formally Golf Club of Kansas, it was in serious trouble but was just bought by a person who is going to drop some money into it, build a clubhouse and make it a first class club long term. Right now the price can't be beat, and it is a very interesting course.

[tnord]

could anybody really get slammed by members from meadowbrook? didn't they only have ~100 anyway?

Canyon Farms/GCOK is a course I really enjoy playing. Their membership "structure" has always been a little wonky, and in a constant state of flux, but the course itself is great I think.

Prairie Dunes is wonderful. I'll just say we live very close by and are there all the time. #2 green has been slightly reshaped, and now has 2 or 3 more legitimate pin positions. It just reopened and I think they did a really good job with it. Staff is awesome(even you Billy!!!), tournaments are very well run, chef is doing a really good job, men's card room is a hoot, and I can't emphasize enough how challenging and enjoyable the course is day to day.

[KUJayhawks]

No love for Hallbrook? My wife and I joined about two years ago and love it. Fazio course, challengIng and a great clubhouse. We hired a new superintendent last year that I really think will make the course even better. He's really made a commitment to making upgrades. New, course wide irrigation system last year and redoing bunkers this year. We've also got a large group of younger members, under 40, that have groups out all the time.

Brand new workout facility, great pool and 6 tennis courts. Have played most clubs in town and I don't know of any that have the total package that Hallbrook does. Just my $0.02

[QMany]

Hallbrook is nice. They were in our KC Cup pod last year. Unfortunately, the greens were frustratingly slow when we played there.

What are they asking for as far as initiation/dues now?

[KUJayhawks]

[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1429930869' post='11437365']
Hallbrook is nice. They were in our KC Cup pod last year. Unfortunately, the greens were frustratingly slow when we played there.

What are they asking for as far as initiation/dues now?
[/quote]

Must've caught it on a bad weekend, greens were pretty good last year. Did have quite a bit of winter kill, though. our zoysia didn't handle that winter very well.

We've got our blast off scramble tomorrow, kind of a fun "opening weekend" get together. They were rolling 10.5 yesterday and we're going to try and get them closer to 12 tomorrow. Not sure if the rain tonight is going to allow that but it should be fun either way.

[tnord]

Hallbrook was ~$25k buy in at one point wasn't it?

[KUJayhawks]

[quote name='tnord' timestamp='1429974950' post='11439457']
Hallbrook was ~$25k buy in at one point wasn't it?
[/quote]

I think it just got bumped up to 35.

[tnord]

i thought it was up there.

just out of curiosity, how much is KCCC and Mission Hills?

[QMany]

[quote name='KUJayhawks' timestamp='1430071671' post='11445561']
[quote name='tnord' timestamp='1429974950' post='11439457']
Hallbrook was ~$25k buy in at one point wasn't it?
[/quote]
I think it just got bumped up to 35.
[/quote]
YIKES! That is steep.

[pdakc]

The last I checked on Mission Hills and Indian Hills, both were around 25k for a junior, and 30-35k for full member, but that was several (4-5) years ago.

[QMany]

When taking into account initiation fees and dues, I have to think Shadow Glen is the best deal in the city. Let alone that it is arguably the best course in the city, they have an unbelievable practice facility with new indoor bays and welcoming clubhouse with dining.

[pdakc]

[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1430166845' post='11453359']
When taking into account initiation fees and dues, I have to think Shadow Glen is the best deal in the city. Let alone that it is arguably the best course in the city, they have an unbelievable practice facility with new indoor bays and welcoming clubhouse with dining.
[/quote]

Shadow Glen is top notch, but it's a victim of its own geography. I live just far enough away from it that I wouldn't consider joining, solely because to get there late afternoon/early evening is quite the endeavor. I do think that's what keeps its prices in the realm of sanity, as opposed to the Mission Hills/Indian Hills courses.

[QMany]

I completely agree about Shadow Glen's location, which is very similar in nature to Wolf Creek. I am a suburb guy, so it can be the same amount of time for me to get to either of those compared to a Mission/Indian/KCCC and much easier drive.

[artica]

I decided to pull the trigger with Brookridge. Two reasons played large factors in my decision making:

1. First time joining a club, I travel for work so this financially (no initiation) gave me an opportunity to understand and evaluate how much time I will actually use the club.
- if I end up using it, more than likely after a few years before my junior period expires (35 years old) I will move to lionsgate. Brookridge might close in 5 years anyways.

2. One of my close friends wanted to join as well and this was location wise best option for both. Having him, his wife and kids join also gave my family immediate friends inside.

Things looked great there. Great bar area and restaurant, gym provided more than what I would have expected. Staff was extremely cordial from top to bottom. Course was decent, nothing too long or too crazy. Although the creek running through the entire thing kept me thinking water hazard too much but it also added character. Looking forward to it.

[MetalStretcher]

[quote name='artica' timestamp='1430325443' post='11466233']
I decided to pull the trigger with Brookridge. Two reasons played large factors in my decision making:

1. First time joining a club, I travel for work so this financially (no initiation) gave me an opportunity to understand and evaluate how much time I will actually use the club.
- if I end up using it, more than likely after a few years before my junior period expires (35 years old) I will move to lionsgate. Brookridge might close in 5 years anyways.

2. One of my close friends wanted to join as well and this was location wise best option for both. Having him, his wife and kids join also gave my family immediate friends inside.

Things looked great there. Great bar area and restaurant, gym provided more than what I would have expected. Staff was extremely cordial from top to bottom. Course was decent, nothing too long or too crazy. Although the creek running through the entire thing kept me thinking water hazard too much but it also added character. Looking forward to it.
[/quote]

How are you liking Brookridge? I'm looking at them and Country Club of Leawood(Leawood South) right now. I am in no position to spend 5K+ on an initiation fee and this will be our first club membership as well.