This is why Butch is the GOAT.

[MonteScheinblum]

He said this before he even saw it being measured.  I saw this live and was never able to find it until today.  I will be snide and condescending to those who called it terrible when I said it, to say apparently Butch is terrible too.  

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6WOBfUrVW3/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[golferdude54]

In TGM it's called extensor action which there is a pressure point for; it's between the top hand thumb and bottom hand thumbpad.

 

There is sort of a shift in width during the backswing, from P1 to P2 you want to push the clubhead as far away from your chest as possible without going off-plane (outside takeaway) then after P2 push the butt end of the grip as far away from your chest as possible all the way up to P4.

 

By the way, Butch wasn't the first to come up with this width concept. Jack Grout, Nicklaus' coach, wrote about this as one of his swing fundamentals in his book before Butch started teaching.

[KMeloney]

33 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

In TGM it's called extensor action which there is a pressure point for; it's between the top hand thumb and bottom hand thumbpad.

 

There is sort of a shift in width during the backswing, from P1 to P2 you want to push the clubhead as far away from your chest as possible without going off-plane (outside takeaway) then after P2 push the butt end of the grip as far away from your chest as possible all the way up to P4.

 

By the way, Butch wasn't the first to come up with this width concept. Jack Grout, Nicklaus' coach, wrote about this as one of his swing fundamentals in his book before Butch started teaching.

 

I see this as a earlier-wrist-c0ck concept, not a width concept.

[airjammer]

starting at 14:35. Mike says Butch is wrong and that’s not the fix. 
 

As with everything with modern golf instruction, absolutely no one is right according to someone else. 
 

For the record, I’ll take what Butch would tell me in an actual lesson over anybody’s 3d saying otherwise but that’s just me. 

[wagolfer7]

16 minutes ago, airjammer said:

starting at 14:35. Mike says Butch is wrong and that’s not the fix. 
 

As with everything with modern golf instruction, absolutely no one is right according to someone else. 
 

For the record, I’ll take what Butch would tell me in an actual lesson over anybody’s 3d saying otherwise but that’s just me. 

 

I did not take it as that as all.  

 

Mike is talking about what you want to actually do in the takeaway.  

 

Butch even says "if you want to exaggerate" you hinge up and then just turn "as a drill".  

 

They are closer to saying the same thing than further apart in my opinion.  And really unfair to say that "Mike" says "Butch" is wrong, when Mike never mentions Butch or his drill at all.    

 

You can get lost in the pointless who's 100% right and who's wrong discussion.  But there's a lot of good content that matches up together.  Finding consistency with Monte's stuff plus Padraig's stuff plus BodiTrak results has made figuring things out a lot easier.  

[airjammer]

He said you definitely don’t want to do that in the actual video. 
 

Had a lesson a couple months ago with a teacher who’s student recently won on the PGA tour that literally said the exact opposite of Butch’s drill for me personally and my takeaway is low and inside already. 
 

That is because there is old school and new school ways on swinging. Old school had much more radial and new school typically has a lot less. 
 

This hack motion graph shows about 25 degrees of radial added from address to top of backswing. For most people that will feel like Steve Stricker type of motion and that what Mike was showing imo. 
 

In the end players with above average hand eye coordination can make a lot of things kinda work. 

[MonteScheinblum]

This is just a disagreement of feels to use as a drill.  The agreement is in getting the proper hinge at p2 and p3.

[jj9000]

The only real difference is that he has pants on...vs...cargo shorts.

 

He's inside...vs...outside on a range.

 

...and it's not foggy as sht inside that studio vs. on the range.

 

Same drill...same message.

[MonteScheinblum]

7 minutes ago, jj9000 said:

The only real difference is that he has pants on...vs...cargo shorts.

 

He's inside...vs...outside on a range.

 

...and it's not foggy as sht inside that studio vs. on the range.

 

Same drill...same message.

I was actually wearing pants that day🤪

[txbadger]

50 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I was actually wearing pants that day🤪

 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, txbadger said:

 

10 years and 50 pounds ago

 

 

[Valtiel]

24 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

10 years and 50 pounds ago

 

 

[cgasucks]

Everytime I hear P2 or P3 crap I think of the location of where I parked my car at my local mall.  For me, I just let my wrists c0ck naturally when I turn my shoulders on my backswing.

[MonteScheinblum]

2 hours ago, cgasucks said:

Everytime I hear P2 or P3 crap I think of the location of where I parked my car at my local mall.  For me, I just let my wrists c0ck naturally when I turn my shoulders on my backswing.

P2 and p3 is not crap.

 

All it is is shorthand.  It’s easier to say p2 than say……shaft parallel in the backswing.

 

That’s fine that yours set naturally but you’re in an extreme minority.

 

Every time on the news would you rather them say the UN and NATO or……The United Nations and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization?

Edited May 1 by MonteScheinblum

[TheDeanAbides]

8 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I was actually wearing pants that day🤪

And that's why I never watch that video. If you've got pants on it never happened. 

[TedKnight]

18 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

He said this before he even saw it being measured.  I saw this live and was never able to find it until today.  I will be snide and condescending to those who called it terrible when I said it, to say apparently Butch is terrible too.  

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6WOBfUrVW3/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

LOL…..Why would anything these guys say irritate you?  

I have a question, is this promoting active forearms in the BS?

 

TK

 

[MK7Golf21]

8 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

P2 and p3 is not crap.

 

All it is is shorthand.  It’s easier to say p2 than say……shaft parallel in the backswing.

 

That’s fine that yours set naturally but you’re in an extreme minority.

 

Every time on the news would you rather them say the UN and NATO or……The United Nations and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization?

 

At least acronyms resemble what is being referenced. If I was an instructor, I might be more annoyed having to teach and remind people what the p positions are versus just saying shaft parallel on backswing. I've been around the p system for years and admittedly have to look up the positions when reading references to make sure I'm right because I don't use them all the time.

[IndyArcher]

8 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

P2 and p3 is not crap.

 

All it is is shorthand.  It’s easier to say p2 than say……shaft parallel in the backswing.

 

That’s fine that yours set naturally but you’re in an extreme minority.

 

Every time on the news would you rather them say the UN and NATO or……The United Nations and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization?

 

Is there a diagram somewhere here that shows where the different positions are? I read that frequently, but need a visual to embed in my mind. 

[nitram]

31 minutes ago, IndyArcher said:

 

Is there a diagram somewhere here that shows where the different positions are? I read that frequently, but need a visual to embed in my mind. 

Just Google "Golf P System" . . .

[IndyArcher]

8 minutes ago, nitram said:

Just Google "Golf P System" . . .

 

Perfect! Thank you!

[mukster]

Mac  O Grady does a wonderful job of explaining this. Yes, I am currently down that rabbit hole. 😎

It's good having a cargo short pants warrior confirming this. 

 

[jonsnow]

25 minutes ago, mukster said:

Mac  O Grady does a wonderful job of explaining this. Yes, I am currently down that rabbit hole. 😎

It's good having a cargo short pants warrior confirming this. 

 

Been down that rabbit hole myself. "One thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three..."

 

[Scottbox]

13 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

10 years and 50 pounds ago

 

 

THE YETI DOES EXIST!

[Scottbox]

12 hours ago, cgasucks said:

Everytime I hear P2 or P3 crap I think of the location of where I parked my car at my local mall.  For me, I just let my wrists c0ck naturally when I turn my shoulders on my backswing.

"Words and letters are hard."

[rx1232]

 

at the 9:30 mark the drill is remarkably similar if not the exact same as the one butch said. 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

3 hours ago, Scottbox said:

"Words and letters are hard."

 

Way back in high school I was walking down the hallway and heard some dummies talking about their algebra class.

 

"I don't know what all these letters and crap have to do with anything. I thought we were learning math."

 

🙄

 

[Shilgy]

On 4/30/2024 at 11:05 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

He said this before he even saw it being measured.  I saw this live and was never able to find it until today.  I will be snide and condescending to those who called it terrible when I said it, to say apparently Butch is terrible too.  

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6WOBfUrVW3/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Monte, you had another version of that hinge drill.  Rather the Ryan Moore/Butch version where the hinge is in front of the player you had one here that was two or three steps.

 

Please refresh my memory 🤔

[Hilts1969]

7 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Monte, you had another version of that hinge drill.  Rather the Ryan Moore/Butch version where the hinge is in front of the player you had one here that was two or three steps.

 

Please refresh my memory 🤔

 

Probably 

c0ck

Hinge 

Turn 

[SNIPERBBB]

On 5/1/2024 at 1:39 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

P2 and p3 is not crap.

 

All it is is shorthand.  It’s easier to say p2 than say……shaft parallel in the backswing.

 

That’s fine that yours set naturally but you’re in an extreme minority.

 

Every time on the news would you rather them say the UN and NATO or……The United Nations and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization?

What they should say is probably not allowed on the forum...

 

 

[Divot License]

On 4/30/2024 at 7:05 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

He said this before he even saw it being measured.  I saw this live and was never able to find it until today.  I will be snide and condescending to those who called it terrible when I said it, to say apparently Butch is terrible too.  

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6WOBfUrVW3/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Proof Monte was preaching this 10 years ago