Vintage Kenneth Smith Blades. Handmade in Kansas City. Should I buy these?

[nickrobotron]

 

 

The current owner is a golf collector trying to purge some clubs to help with family affairs. I purchased a set of really nice '62 Power Thrust irons from him and he undersold them. He says these Kenneth Smith irons are in way better condition than the Hogan's. The grooves look brand new.

 

I have really been enjoying playing vintage clubs lately and would love to have these. I am also from Kansas City, so I love that these were handmade in my hometown.

 

I don't want to overpay though and I don't really want to waste my time with these if they are not going to be a top notch blade that are worth gaming.

 

What do you think these are worth? He's also throwing in the woods, but they are a little banged up. Any opinion at all would be much appreciated.

 

Nick

[nickrobotron]

They must have a different way of wording the wedge. The irons are 3-9, and a 99 wedge. What does that mean?

[Guia]

In their day they were considered the best custom clubs you could purchase, I always wanted some but could not bring myself to part with the money. Although they would be cool as a novelty item I don't think that they are anyway as playable as blades made in the past 25 years. The shafts are archaic by current standards. Still an interesting conversation piece. I personally have never been a fan of laminated woods, but to each their own.

Match them up with an old Sunday canvas bag and put them on display.

[Kirasdad]

I am not sure about the shafts being archaic. The dynamic/dynamic gold shaft family have been around for forty years and many tour guys have them in their irons. Are their shafts "antiques"? Don't know what year these Kenneth Smiths are manufactured but they look like a 70's era blade to me. The shaft in those is most likely a True Temper, and the playing characteristics wouldn't be too different from a dynamic gold of today. You would need to have them bent to your specs, but with a forged blade that is easy enough. The real issue here is cost. If these are mint, and they do look pretty clean in the pics, they are worth a bit more than a typical vintage set, but the market for vintage gear is a buyers market. You can buy just about any blade of the 60's, 70's or 80's for 75.00 or less. Special sets in pristine condition a little more, but if he is asking more than 100 that's reaching. These would be nice players, and with the whole KC angle, only you know how much they are "worth". Remember, on ebay people's asking price can be anything, and often are completely ridiculous. Make sure to check the sold listings for real value. The whole "modern blade" thing is moot in this case. Blades from the 40's and 50's are pretty hard to handle, but these clubs won't play any different than Hogan's or Wilson Staff's from the same 70's era, which don't play much different than a Mizono MP 33 IMO. Lofts will be a bit weaker, but that's about it.

Of course this post is being written by a guy who plays a bag full of 90 year old clubs so perhaps as a hickory golfer I just don't appreciate the technical innovations of today's clubs, lol. Those Smith's look pretty smooth, talk him into a decent price and play'em!

[nickrobotron]

I think I have enough vintage clubs. With 2 sets of Eye 2's, a set of 73 Apex, and 62 Power Thrusts, I am pretty well stocked. I don't play golf enough to fully enjoy the ones I have! I will probably pass. He wants $200.

[Wriggles]

I'm with Kirasdad on this. I'm not an expert on anything, but I'm a cheapskate. I'd go $100 on these, if I really wanted them. Clubs on Ebay run the range, from incredibly cheap to ridiculously high. I've never bought anything on Ebay, if I did, I'd be broke. I usually just go to thrift shops, and see what they have to offer. Sometimes, good deals occur. I've curtailed my club buying in the last couple years, gave some away to relatives. How many golf clubs does a person need?

Still have 100-150 clubs, a small amount in comparison to some fellows. I try to play them all, from hickories to relatively modern. All perform about the same for me, except the hickories. Hickories must be played with less distance in mind.

Play well!

[super20dan]

i owned and played (a lot) these irons. they are top quality stainless steel and will last a lifetime. they are demanding irons to hit like many blades of this era. the pw is a 19 and the sw is the 99. these irons were extremly customized to the original owner and may not fit you with out extencive adjustments. there was no such thing as off the rack from kenneth smith. the woods are very fragile and will eventually break. even in maple. the irons play much like wilson staffs from the 60,s. price of these was sky high back then . $110 per club

[BIG STU]

[quote name='nickrobotron' timestamp='1413099834' post='10273513']
I think I have enough vintage clubs. With 2 sets of Eye 2's, a set of 73 Apex, and 62 Power Thrusts, I am pretty well stocked. I don't play golf enough to fully enjoy the ones I have! I will probably pass. He wants $200.
[/quote]As nice and rare as they are I would not go over $100 myself and I dont think anyone else would either

[BIG STU]

[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1413097843' post='10273485']
I am not sure about the shafts being archaic. The dynamic/dynamic gold shaft family have been around for forty years and many tour guys have them in their irons. Are their shafts "antiques". Don't know what year these Kenneth Smiths are manufactured but they look like a 70's era blade to me. The shaft in those is most likely a True Temper, and the playing characteristics wouldn't be too different from a dynamic gold of today. You would need to have them bent to your specs, but with a forged blade that is easy enough. The real issue here is cost. If these are mint, and they do look pretty clean in the pics, they are worth a bit more than a typical vintage set, but the market for vintage gear is a buyers market. You can buy just about any blade of the 60's, 70's or 80's for 75.00 or less. Special sets in pristine condition a little more, but if he is asking more than 100 that's reaching. These would be nice players, and with the whole KC angle, only you know how much they are "worth". Remember, on ebay people's asking price can be anything, and often are completely ridiculous. Make sure to check the sold listings for real value. The whole "modern blade" thing is moot in this case. Blades from the 40's and 50's are pretty hard to handle, but these clubs won't play any different than Hogan's or Wilson Staff's from the same 70's era, which don't play much different than a Mizono MP 33 IMO. Lofts will be a bit weaker, but that's about it.

Of course this post is being written by a guy who plays a bag full of 90 year old clubs so perhaps as a hickory golfer I just don't appreciate the technical innovations of today's clubs, lol. Those Smith's look pretty smooth, talk him into a decent price and play'em!
[/quote]IMHO nothing hits like a set of MP-33s I played a set of them for quite a few years untill I wore them out and I have hit all of the best including Macs Hogans,Wilson and Spalding. About the only two clubs that hit like them are Miuras or my new set of Infiniti TS-10s which are a Japanese forging also. But that is just my opinion which aint chisled in stone and is subject to review and redicule

[super20dan]

i admit i have avoided the mizino sets so far-afraid i might become obsesed with them and collecting all the best models etc. bad enough now. there is a set of ms 9,s i could get dirt cheap at an obscure pawn shop. been there for years

[Texsport]

Any vintage iron set I consider must be looked at very objectively.

If they are intended as a playing set, the lofts, lies, shafts, and shaft lengths are key, as older clubs generally have weaker lofts and different shaft flexes and lengths. If a set can be bent to your specifications and remain playable, I'd go for them. However, the sole bounces are usually decreased when bending to stronger, modern lofts. Be careful that enough bounce remains to allow good playability after alteration.

If modern lofts and distance maximums are no a concern - if you have 120 mph swing speed and want high trajectories - then this doesn't matter.

If you are buying for display, then the only thing that matters is the price.

Texsport

[rex235]

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1413162682' post='10276325']
i admit i have avoided the mizino sets so far-afraid i might become obsesed with them and collecting all the best models etc. bad enough now. there is a set of ms 9,s i could get dirt cheap at an obscure pawn shop. been there for years
[/quote]

Super-

If they're still there, get the MS-9s....

[rex235]

[quote name='nickrobotron' timestamp='1413099834' post='10273513']
I think I have enough vintage clubs. With 2 sets of Eye 2's, a set of 73 Apex, and 62 Power Thrusts, I am pretty well stocked. I don't play golf enough to fully enjoy the ones I have! I will probably pass. He wants $200.

[/quote]

Nick-

With Kenneth Smith, their motto was "Hand Made to Fit You!", so everything about them from their length, shaft, grip, and swingweight was custom,and they were very big on swingweight.
Along with the REG No, you could even get your name and initials stamped on them.

Kansas City or no, basically you get someone else's custom set..

Yes, they made LH sets too... A HS teammate of mine wanted me to purchase his dad's set of LH KS woods , but at -1/2" length and 2 degrees upright lie, it just wasn't a good fit.

[super20dan]

are the mizuno ms9 a desirable model? i think they are from the mid 1980,s?

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='super20dan' timestamp='1413237038' post='10280281']
are the mizuno ms9 a desirable model? i think they are from the mid 1980,s?
[/quote]

Late 80s, I believe. And yes. Very much yes. Companions to the MP-9s, predecessor to the MS-11/MP-11s I own.

47° PW, fwiw.

[Kirasdad]

I played the 11's years ago. Great irons, great. Unparalleled feel.

Did I say they were good?

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1413256894' post='10282285']
Did I say they were good?
[/quote]

Are they good? Really?

[super20dan]

i will go back for another look. there are 2 sets of irons and assorted woods -all for 50$ -i cant remember what the second set is.

[pdgolferman]

April, 1950

[attachment=2457863:111.png]

[MoaningM]

Do they have stainless steel ferrules as well or just painted plastic?

[nickrobotron]

Steel ferrules.

[super20dan]

every smith i have seen had steel ferrels too

[MoaningM]

Cant say i have ever seen clubs with stainless ferrules. Must add a bit of extra swingweight some of them look chunky ferrules,too.

Nice finishing touch though!

[oldschoolrocker]

Found a set of KS about a year ago. Totally not my specs so they went by way of the bay. The SS ferrules were sharp. Also saw a single fg17 with a SS ferrule and it looked outstanding. I could see myself with a full compliment of those.

[Kathy Marie]

I agree very cool...

Could steel ferrules be used to adjust swingweight though? Just a thought...

[bullrambler]

My guess is that these clubs are stainless. That creates limited options for bending. If they are close to your specs then they could be considered a worthy purchase. If you think $100 is a fair offer - all he can say is no.

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='bullrambler' timestamp='1413558183' post='10304847']
My guess is that these clubs are stainless. That creates limited options for bending. If they are close to your specs then they could be considered a worthy purchase. If you think $100 is a fair offer - all he can say is no.
[/quote]

Such as I've seen Kenneth Smith irons were advertised as being forged stainless steel. That in itself doesn't mean they're more difficult to bend, there are many grades of stainless across the metallurgy spectrum. Not all stainless is like 15-5 (which was considered largely unbendable).

[super20dan]

they are indeed stainless steel. lack the butter soft well srtuck blade feel of most from this era

[Guia]

Those are original Kenneth Smith, the company was sold and the purchasing company continued to make KS irons for several years. There is always a However, they kept the name but not the quality and changed the design.

[1957Strat]

Just stumbled upon this thread. I have a set of the original Kenneth Smith Royal Signet blades that were custom built for me; one of the last sets made. To clear up some misconceptions… They are forged stainless steel. Soft! stainless and have as much of a ‘buttery’ feel as any of the carbon steel classic blades I have. They just didn’t have to be plated because of the SS, though they will rust if left out wet etc. with no care as there is a fairly high carbon content.

The ferrules are not steel, they are turned aluminum.

The irons are wonderful, world class sticks…it’s truly a shame they are no longer available. The ones pictured in this thread look like they are from the 70’s; mine don’t look outdated as those but more like the final design of the Mac VIP’s (3 step).

Cheers.