top tips for playing vintage gear

[golfnut1964]

What would be your best advice for playing vintage gear especially persimmon drivers ?

Im finding as a relative newbie ( 2 yrs exp playing vintage sticks) that when my tempo is

good I have better success. When I straight out start slicing I know im way off-the instant feedback

off the tee is one of the things I like about playing older gear.

 

When my timing or tempo are close or on, I hit gentle fades even straight drives with a piercing ball flight.

Using blades has def improved my ball striking as Im forced to concentrate that much more and accept

my limitations with length ( once again tempo/timing)

 

thnx in advance for any thoughts

[stevemcgee99]

Keep the swing path coming inside, and I find I need to have my hips started to turn before I release to hit the ball. I release late.

Maybe a less personal thing and more general advice is to tee the ball pretty darn low. My height is about the thickness of my bent finger under the ball.

I'm newer than you for sure. Since I've started a flatter swing, I can end up going a little left (never a hook). But straight flights are pretty cool.

[birly-shirly]

With persimmons, I think a 3 wood is often a smarter choice than driver if you want to maximise carry, say downwind or uphill, or if you need to draw the ball.

With irons, accept your limitations. Chances are you're not going to hit the ball as high, esp from any sort of sketchy lie, with a long iron as you might with a hybrid. Play conservatively if faced with forced carries over hazards. Distance loss probably isn't as big a deal as you think, so long as you think in terms of the specs of your clubs rather than the number on the sole. Blades probably do lose a little more yardage on mishits than cavity backs, so it pays to make allowances and club up.

With wedges, I think a lot of old school sand irons are less versatile from the fairway than their modern counterparts. I think it pays to learn to pitch with a classic pitching wedge, especially if it's set up with 50 - 52* loft. Get comfortable with running chips and pitches - though I'd probably say the same for modern gear too.

[ScooterMcTavish]

You seem to have learned the most important lesson, slowing down your tempo. However, once you get better at making contact, you can start adding distance back by accelerating through the ball.

As B-S mentioned, these older (and in many cases worn) clubs do not get the same spin as modern clubs. Play more bump and run unless conditions are super soft where you can get the ball to stop.

SMG was also right on teeing low. In hand with this, also use practice sessions to work on all aspects of ball position, and count the balls you hit.

For example, my Hogans have a sweet spot dangerously close to the hosel. However, on my first 20-30 shots, I pull my irons inside farther than I do on my next 20-30, and then my next 20-30 as I tire. So it's critical for me to move the ball around throughout the round. On the first hole, I may have the hosel at the equator of the ball. By seven, I may have 1/3rd of the ball past the hosel. By thirteen, I may have the ball right in front of the sweet spot.

This also works on woods, where the opposite happens to me. Fist tee, 1/3rd of the ball is outside the club face. 18th tee, 1/2 the ball is over the insert.

Knowing your swing and how it works at various parts of the round is important. Equally important is understanding what is happening on every shot, then adjusting based on your success at the range (hmmm, hit that one off the toe - better set up with the ball further inside next shot).

[scomac2002]

Lots of great advice here! I'm even newer to the world of vintage than golfnut as I only started playing vintage this season.

I'm in full agreement with Scott in tee it low; set-up off the hosel with your irons and alter ball position/stance throughout the round. I gleaned those tidbits from these guys earlier on and have applied them to my play with good results.

In terms of the short game, I've found my 9 iron to often be the club of choice for pitches from the fairway and chips if I want to get the ball rolling fairly quickly. I just seem to get cleaner contact with it than either my PW or SI. With approach shots I've also learned to hit it short and let the ball run on. In firm conditions I continue to be surprised at how far the ball will run out with long irons and woods that have considerably lower launch and less carry than modern counterparts. A couple of weeks ago I hit my 3W over 220 on a second shot into a par 5. I'll bet it rolled out close to 50 yards, leaving me with a chip and a putt for birdie! (Nope, I didn't make it! )

[oldschoolrocker]

I agree with with the majority. Temp...tempo...tempo seems to be the key. off the tee can be a tough nut to crack, so don't be afraid to experiment with different drivers and shaft flex. My second biggest mistake with the driver is trying to steer the ball, my first, trying to "hit" it and not swing the club. When I get these issues out of the way, just swing the club and visualize usually the results are pretty good. I usually tee a Quater to a Half the ball above the club face.

[johnnydman]

Like others have already said, Driver Tempo. For me, A smoother, slightly slower swing than modern.
I also tee the ball lower than with moderns.

[jonnygrouville]

Part of the joy of vintage golf, for me, is the absence of swing thoughts. The more I think about, the worse I hit it.

I am generally just thinking about getting the ball out of the middle of the clubface and that seems to be enough.

[BIG STU]

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1434365931' post='11753296']
With persimmons, I think a 3 wood is often a smarter choice than driver if you want to maximise carry, say downwind or uphill, or if you need to draw the ball.

With irons, accept your limitations. Chances are you're not going to hit the ball as high, esp from any sort of sketchy lie, with a long iron as you might with a hybrid. Play conservatively if faced with forced carries over hazards. Distance loss probably isn't as big a deal as you think, so long as you think in terms of the specs of your clubs rather than the number on the sole. Blades probably do lose a little more yardage on mishits than cavity backs, so it pays to make allowances and club up.

With wedges, I think a lot of old school sand irons are less versatile from the fairway than their modern counterparts. I think it pays to learn to pitch with a classic pitching wedge, especially if it's set up with 50 - 52* loft. Get comfortable with running chips and pitches - though I'd probably say the same for modern gear too.
[/quote]On the old school sand irons it depends on the grind. Now if you have been playing most all your life like I have with the older equipment you learn to manulipate the wedges differently and remember we only had limited offerings and we had to learn to work them. Since I switched back to using my vintage irons for front line gamers I have went back to my old game of bump and run with my pitching wedge which is 48*

[golfnut1964]

BIG STU-your short sided to a back pin with very little room on the green. Elevated green calls for a flop or something similar...what do you do ?

[Kirasdad]

I would never pretend to give anyone swing advice with vintage, hickory or even modern. That is a slippery slope of the slipperiest kind. It has also been my experience having played a good bit of all three kinds of golf that my swing is pretty much my swing, I don't think it changes with different gear with the possible exception of hickory where I think that my transition is a little more deliberate, but just a little. Even then the change is more of an adjustment than a specific change. It just happened gradually as my body got used to the clubs.

My advice would be to look for a 2 wood. As Tad is fond of saying of hickory, "loft is your friend" and that is true of vintage as well. Take a modern driver, a Callaway Blaster Mega Driver for example, I would swing that thing around the mid nineties mph. My hickory driver with it's shorter and heavier shaft would be 90 mph or even high 80's. famous club designers like Tad Moore and Tom Wishon would say I would need at that 95/96 speed a modern driver of 10.5/11 degrees. So in vintage you could do the math and say 13 or even 14 degrees. So a 2 wood or even for slower swingers a 3 wood, as some have already mentioned.

You have to be creative in your short game. The wedges aren't made for flops generally speaking so try not to short side yourself, and learn how to use a vintage pw, which is the loft if a modern gap, but with probably less bounce. Play conservative. Know your yardages and don't BS yourself. It will kill you in vintage. My Palmer Standard 7 iron is more like 140 max and if I am playing conservatively I am thinking 130-135. You'll hit a lot more greens that way and you'll swing much more consistently than trying to get the max out of every club, which is the more modern approach. Play course yardages you can handle, 6000-6400 for most, and you can enjoy yourself immensely. If you try and play the same game your been playing with your 26 degree modern six iron there is only frustration in your future. I would say play by yourself the first few rounds. Get used to the new/old game in private. Then slowly introduce to folks you trust until you have the experience and fortitude to play with anyone. If you play vintage with modern players don't try and "keep up".

Play your game. Have fun.

[dbuck47]

Lower your expectations and enjoy the game.

I do not mean try less or concentrate less. Accept that at least initially, you are giving up some distance. Expect to hit your target, but expect that target to be shorter than it was. High expectations lead to stress, and stress leads to tension, and tension is the enemy of tempo. Realistic targets lead to achievement, and achievement builds confidence. Confidence leads to relaxation, and relaxation is the friend of tempo.

[jonnygrouville]

On the short-sided question, with hickories, you work out how to bumble your way onto the green (percentage shot - jigger or something), take your bogey and walk to the tee a happy chap.

Vintage, the same as ever. The best tip I have ever had for playing these shots when you don't have a lob wedge offering lots and lots of loft is to really, really weaken your left hand grip. Can really over-do this, a proper no-knuckle effort. Then chuck the clubhead at it from the top and you'll be popping them up off hard-pan, cart-path, whatever.

[stevemcgee99]

dbuck sounds like a Jedi. And I'd agree.

With any change we'll decrease performance at least temporarily.

Regarding the 'gotta hit it high and drop it straight down with backspin' assumption - No, you don't. You can also hit it somewhere else on the green, then putt once or twice. Rolling off the back of an elevated green will more likely leave you with three shots than just getting on somewhere else that's makeable.

[Eidolon]

All is good advice. One thing I've used for some of my students is visual. You see plenty of technique for modern equipment and your mental pics feed off of that. Youtube several 70's/80's us & brit open final rounds. Lots out there! Study method, style, and situational need. It refreshes old memories and educates also. Your results may vary . Mike

[TimV]

Tempo is King. Make sure you snap the wrist thru and make a full follow through.
I don't agree that you need to give up the driver and go with a 3 Wood. I think you just have to find the right driver. I was killing (for me) my MacGregor XP/seventy today and hitting it close to the same distance of my best drives with a modern driver.

[stevemcgee99]

I watch a lot of the old games on YouTube, and it seems to help me.

[Danny Young]

Really think i might take my vintage sticks out this week sometime.

Going to play my Hogan 73 dictators and my Hogan 53 woods

[TimV]

[quote name='Danny Young' timestamp='1435610132' post='11857060']
Really think i might take my vintage sticks out this week sometime.

Going to play my Hogan 73 dictators and my Hogan 53 woods
[/quote]

Do It! Do It! Do It!!!

[Blade Junkie]

Re flop shot, find a sand wedge that has a little less bounce ( I find quite a few sand irons in vintage sets have been put through the grinder by a previous owner!) lay it back to add loft, and think "soft hands" when you hit it. And practice

[BIG STU]

[quote name='golfnut1964' timestamp='1434425569' post='11759478']
BIG STU-your short sided to a back pin with very little room on the green. Elevated green calls for a flop or something similar...what do you do ?
[/quote]Sorry did not see this sooner. Depends on a lot of factors including the lie and distance. But generally I go upstairs or uptown and try to take it to the pin. I usually get aggressive with it on those shots. Getting back to the lie. My Cleveland 56 is a low bounce and my 60 is about 12* I know just the opposite from most folks but that's how I roll. If it is a hardpan lie I would take the 56 and choke down and open it slightly and really hit down on it. If it was a lie in good grass I take the 60 and open it up all the way and accelerate through it no fear. When I am putting well I will try to get it at least to 6 or 8 feet and get it down. When I am not putting well I tend to get too aggressive. But all in all I take everything into consideration I have done screwed up to begin with by short siding myself. I have to take a deep breath and think what to do to minimalize the damage and not compound my mistake and make the big number

[fluffy265]

This isn't really advice but just another opportunity to preach to the choir....
Playing a vintage set up has made me appreciate the traditional courses design and layout, which tests all the clubs in the bag. Keeping this in mind playing a vintage setup should make how the hole is to be played more obvious. You can't rock up to the course with todays "driver and wedge" mentality. Get familiar with your long irons and fairway woods!
What really sold me on the vintage bag though was that my equipment set up progress's though the bag properly, so my natural swing works with every club. I'm no longer forced to have some entirely separate driver swing like I needed to with the tin can's.

As far as wedges go there are plenty of great ones out there, it just might take a while to find what really works for you and if you don't find one, get out the grinder!

J

[BIG STU]

[quote name='fluffy265' timestamp='1435652967' post='11860740']
This isn't really advice but just another opportunity to preach to the choir....
Playing a vintage set up has made me appreciate the traditional courses design and layout, which tests all the clubs in the bag. Keeping this in mind playing a vintage setup should make how the hole is to be played more obvious. You can't rock up to the course with todays "driver and wedge" mentality. Get familiar with your long irons and fairway woods!
What really sold me on the vintage bag though was that my equipment set up progress's though the bag properly, so my natural swing works with every club. I'm no longer forced to have some entirely separate driver swing like I needed to with the tin can's.

As far as wedges go there are some plenty of great ones out there, it just might take a while to find what really works for you and if you don't find one, get out the grinder!

J
[/quote]Great Post!! I especially like the part about get out the grinder. I will grab a grinder in a heartbeat!

[jbucher]

Good thread as I plan on Friday to take out the Vintage bag and swing away and have fun. Don't know if this might tweak some of you vintage folks, I have a new set of Game Golf tags installed in my vintage clubs. GG log in created for vintage bag. I figure a club difference on irons to start with and see what happens.
In GG you can create different challenges and have created a Pre 1980 club challenge.
[url="http://www.gamegolf.com/challenges/1558/leaderboard"]http://www.gamegolf.com/challenges/1558/leaderboard[/url]
Lets see if any one else with game golf joins?
Jimmy B

[Kathy Marie]

Jimmy, THANKS for doing this!!!

Blending the Latest Tech with Vintage Clubs--How COOL is THAT?!?!?!!!





KM

[stevemcgee99]

Let's get enough data to put the 'older clubs are less accurate with less distance' story to rest.

Like 'Trevino and Hogan didn't hit as far'. Data shows differently.

[oldschoolrocker]

Interesting concept.

[Fellaheen51]

Had to look up "Game Golf"; unfamiliar with it. While this is an interesting concept (quoting OSR), I'm technologically adverse while out on the golf course. I do not have the time nor patience to "fiddle" with electronic devices while playing. Takes away from my focus of trying to hit the damn ball properly. However, more power to anyone who actively uses such tools. Would be interesting to see the data if this gets off the ground.

As for the topic at hand, I have one main focus when playing vintage clubs (especially persimmon).........SWING SLOW.

[jbucher]

Hello all, with 3 rounds in the in the books here are some stats. Clubs are W/S X-31 woods 1 wood @ 10*-3 wood @14*- 4 wood @ 20*/ W/S 1973 Dyna-power Irons. Acushnet wide flange bullseye putter. I am a 12 handicap.
2 rounds at Foster Golf Links 4804 YRDS ( yeah short) Par 68
Maplewood 5698 YRDS Par 72
Stats are combined for the 3 rounds
55% frwys
35% GIRS
1.9Putts
Driver average 236, long of 284. First round with the driver was a bit frustrating. Settled down and slowed tempo and drives went straight.
Irons, well there is a sweet spot on them I hit it infrequently. The 3rd round went better with the Irons and figuring out the yardages.
Fridays first 18 at Maplewood my wife and i played with 2 younger guys that haven't played with someone playing Woods. They were impressed. Second round back at Foster played with a Father and his 18 year old son. It was nice to out distance the youngster on several drives.
More rounds to come in the future!
Jimmy B