Jordan Speith - Weak Era

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1437952863' post='12024014']
i cannot think of any sport involving physical and mental skills plus equipment improvements wherein the athletes performances have not become better in the past 50 or so years..
[/quote]
[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1437952863' post='12024014']
i cannot think of any sport involving physical and mental skills plus equipment improvements wherein the athletes performances have not become better in the past 50 or so years..
[/quote]

That's true JM. And in most sports bigger, faster, stronger is a huge, huge advantage. But less so in golf. Zack Johnson just beat Dustin Johnson in the Open. According to the bigger, faster, stronger, that shouldn't happen. That's the physical.

Mental skills? Are they any better now? I give you again Dustin Johnson (this era's Tom Weiskopf?)

Equipment. Well yeah, that's a given.

I just don't think golf eras compare well. Tiger would have excelled in Jacks era, and Jack would have excelled in Tiger's. Wouldn't it have been great to see them push each other. I really hope the Rory and Speith can develop that. It's not that often that you have two potential all time greats come along at the same time.

[cdodom91]

Jordan doesn't have to be good at everything! His short game and putting is amazing! Also, he happens to be very very accurate from 150 to 180 out which is the yardage most majors play from on second shot on par 4s. He's able to murder the par 4s.

I like to compare Jordan to a well coached and managed baseball team. Such as the Tampa bay rays or Oakland As of a few years ago. They didn't have the long ball hitters on their team but they knew getting on base was the most important thing to do. It gives your team a chance to score which is the objective of the entire game! Jordan is the same way! He's not this huge hitter but he isn't short by no means. But he hits his greens almost always and gives himself a chance to get that flat stick out as soon as possible.

OP,

You are trying to take away what this man is doing at such a young age. This guy has plenty of competition. It's not like he's putting up mediocre scores and winning.

[jmvargas]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1438000141' post='12026296']
[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1437952863' post='12024014']
i cannot think of any sport involving physical and mental skills plus equipment improvements wherein the athletes performances have not become better in the past 50 or so years..
[/quote]
[quote name='jmvargas' timestamp='1437952863' post='12024014']
i cannot think of any sport involving physical and mental skills plus equipment improvements wherein the athletes performances have not become better in the past 50 or so years..
[/quote]

That's true JM. And in most sports bigger, faster, stronger is a huge, huge advantage. But less so in golf. Zack Johnson just beat Dustin Johnson in the Open. According to the bigger, faster, stronger, that shouldn't happen. That's the physical.

Mental skills? Are they any better now? I give you again Dustin Johnson (this era's Tom Weiskopf?)

Equipment. Well yeah, that's a given.

I just don't think golf eras compare well. Tiger would have excelled in Jacks era, and Jack would have excelled in Tiger's. Wouldn't it have been great to see them push each other. I really hope the Rory and Speith can develop that. It's not that often that you have two potential all time greats come along at the same time.
[/quote]

....i was speaking in general of course...

when you combine all the factors i mentioned there is bound to be individuals who will rise above the rest in whatever era they are compared to the previous eras..

world records in athletics. swimming,the shooting sports and many other disciplines are regularly being improved/broken as the years pass by due to improved diets' training. equipment etc etc......and golf is no different.

jack was the best in his era just as tiger was in his....and perhaps it's now jordan and rory's turn...

[granite45]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1437923184' post='12021808'] athletes care more .[/quote]

That is very debatable. Especially in the money era.

If they care so much, do they change their clubs in the middle of a hot streak? Do they leave their championship starved hometown in free agency? Do they take plays off? Do they only play a couple tourneys a year? Do they even have a passion for the sport they play, or were they steered into it by coaches and agents? Do they appreciate the fans? Do they work on interview skills and become ambassadors of their sport?

Do they play hard with passion every single time because some starstruck kid is watching them for the first time? Do they take what the course gives them and not continually complain about the conditions? Do they get fined for etiquette violations and then their governing body hides it because of their image? Do they extend their careers with HGH? And then do they find ways to hide it with science and the black market?

I don't think athletes in this era care care more about anything... except money. Most could give less than two balls about the integrity and legacy of their chosen sports.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='granite45' timestamp='1438007997' post='12027040']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1437923184' post='12021808'] athletes care more .[/quote]

That is very debatable. Especially in the money era.

If they care so much, do they change their clubs in the middle of a hot streak? Do they leave their championship starved hometown in free agency? Do they take plays off? Do they only play a couple tourneys a year? Do they even have a passion for the sport they play, or were they steered into it by coaches and agents? Do they appreciate the fans? Do they work on interview skills and become ambassadors of their sport?

Do they play hard with passion every single time because some starstruck kid is watching them for the first time? Do they take what the course gives them and not continually complain about the conditions? Do they get fined for etiquette violations and then their governing body hides it because of their image? Do they extend their careers with HGH? And then do they find ways to hide it with science and the black market?

I don't think athletes in this era care care more about anything... except money. Most could give less than two balls about the integrity and legacy of their chosen sports.
[/quote]

Do golfers care more when the purses now are so huge that winning is not necessary to be extremely wealthy? Back in ye olden days winning meant food on the table. That probably narrowed the field a bit as not everyone could afford to be on tour, and the ones that could stay were hungry dogs. Jack, Arnold, Player, Watson, Trevino were all killers, despite the lack of pilates and weightlifting (excluding wee Gary that is).

[vman]

I think all tour pro's care about their performance regardless of purse size and as it happens,winning isn't that easy.

[Wknd_Warrior]

[quote name='cdodom91' timestamp='1438001575' post='12026414']
he happens to be very very accurate from 150 to 180 out which is the yardage most majors play from on second shot on par 4s.
[/quote]

Good point in general. I was looking at his stats page, comparatively his forte seems to be 175 - 225, probably because he hits the ball pretty straight and solid all the time, but he doesn't come off as a sharp shooter until he gets inside 100 yards. So he's getting strokes on long par 4s and just about any par 5.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='granite45' timestamp='1438007997' post='12027040']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1437923184' post='12021808'] athletes care more .[/quote]

That is very debatable. Especially in the money era.

If they care so much, do they change their clubs in the middle of a hot streak? Do they leave their championship starved hometown in free agency? Do they take plays off? Do they only play a couple tourneys a year? Do they even have a passion for the sport they play, or were they steered into it by coaches and agents? Do they appreciate the fans? Do they work on interview skills and become ambassadors of their sport?

Do they play hard with passion every single time because some starstruck kid is watching them for the first time? Do they take what the course gives them and not continually complain about the conditions? Do they get fined for etiquette violations and then their governing body hides it because of their image? Do they extend their careers with HGH? And then do they find ways to hide it with science and the black market?

I don't think athletes in this era care care more about anything... except money. Most could give less than two balls about the integrity and legacy of their chosen sports.
[/quote]

yeah those guys who couldn't even be bothered to practiced 2 hours a day back in the 60s, they totally cared a lot about their golf.

the guys who have been groomed for golf since they were 3, spend 8 hours a day practicing and another working out, those guys totally don't care at all.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1438038686' post='12030324']
[quote name='granite45' timestamp='1438007997' post='12027040']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1437923184' post='12021808'] athletes care more .[/quote]

That is very debatable. Especially in the money era.

If they care so much, do they change their clubs in the middle of a hot streak? Do they leave their championship starved hometown in free agency? Do they take plays off? Do they only play a couple tourneys a year? Do they even have a passion for the sport they play, or were they steered into it by coaches and agents? Do they appreciate the fans? Do they work on interview skills and become ambassadors of their sport?

Do they play hard with passion every single time because some starstruck kid is watching them for the first time? Do they take what the course gives them and not continually complain about the conditions? Do they get fined for etiquette violations and then their governing body hides it because of their image? Do they extend their careers with HGH? And then do they find ways to hide it with science and the black market?

I don't think athletes in this era care care more about anything... except money. Most could give less than two balls about the integrity and legacy of their chosen sports.
[/quote]

yeah those guys who couldn't even be bothered to practiced 2 hours a day back in the 60s, they totally cared a lot about their golf.

the guys who have been groomed for golf since they were 3, spend 8 hours a day practicing and another working out, those guys totally don't care at all.
[/quote]

Its not about not caring, its about whether they can settle into a comfortable routine that gives them a multi million dollar career. You don't need to win anymore to ride the gravy train. The big fight though is to get on and stay on the tour. Do that and a house in Florida awaits.

[Shilgy]

^^two things to that. So who in the heck were those "killers of yesteryear" beating week after week if you had to win to put food on the table? Must have been a lot of scrubs that played occasionally as a lark? The guys now have to work their asses of just to keep their card and that"comfy" life in Florida.

[mpfitz85]

This thread has taken some crazy turns and the main premise seems based on something completely unquantifiable.

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='mpfitz85' timestamp='1438058322' post='12032500']
This thread has taken some crazy turns and the main premise seems based on something completely unquantifiable.
[/quote]

Ya, threads tend to morph when they get long, lol.

Never liked hitting off mats myself. Must be real grass.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='mpfitz85' timestamp='1438058322' post='12032500']
This thread has taken some crazy turns and the main premise seems based on something completely unquantifiable.
[/quote]

All very informative and enjoyable so far. As a spiritual guardian of the game I believe it was paramount that I raised this issue.

[Lodestone]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1438079358' post='12032938']
[quote name='mpfitz85' timestamp='1438058322' post='12032500']
This thread has taken some crazy turns and the main premise seems based on something completely unquantifiable.
[/quote]

All very informative and enjoyable so far. As a spiritual guardian of the game I believe it was paramount that I raised this issue.
[/quote]

At last, a GlfWrxer who can keep his role in perspective .

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1438052666' post='12032028']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1438038686' post='12030324']
[quote name='granite45' timestamp='1438007997' post='12027040']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1437923184' post='12021808'] athletes care more .[/quote]

That is very debatable. Especially in the money era.

If they care so much, do they change their clubs in the middle of a hot streak? Do they leave their championship starved hometown in free agency? Do they take plays off? Do they only play a couple tourneys a year? Do they even have a passion for the sport they play, or were they steered into it by coaches and agents? Do they appreciate the fans? Do they work on interview skills and become ambassadors of their sport?

Do they play hard with passion every single time because some starstruck kid is watching them for the first time? Do they take what the course gives them and not continually complain about the conditions? Do they get fined for etiquette violations and then their governing body hides it because of their image? Do they extend their careers with HGH? And then do they find ways to hide it with science and the black market?

I don't think athletes in this era care care more about anything... except money. Most could give less than two balls about the integrity and legacy of their chosen sports.
[/quote]

yeah those guys who couldn't even be bothered to practiced 2 hours a day back in the 60s, they totally cared a lot about their golf.

the guys who have been groomed for golf since they were 3, spend 8 hours a day practicing and another working out, those guys totally don't care at all.
[/quote]

Its not about not caring, its about whether they can settle into a comfortable routine that gives them a multi million dollar career. You don't need to win anymore to ride the gravy train. The big fight though is to get on and stay on the tour. Do that and a house in Florida awaits.
[/quote]

comfortable routine? these guys spend 8+ hours a day practicing every day to keep their cards. there's 1000+ mini tour guys grinding it out everyday trying to make it on tour. you act like they just practice for 2 hours a day to make 1.5 mil a year. not that simple at all. for every 1 dude on tour, there's 100 that aren't even covering their expenses playing, let alone making money.

[granite45]

Thread is going off the rails...

The original debate was if today's athletes "care more."

I have a hard time believing that the professionals of 20, 40, or 60 years ago were hacks who only practiced 2 hours a day (that's a direct quote BTW).

And, 8 hours of practice a day means nothing if it doesn't translate to performance. I could care less how many hours someone puts in. If they have a good school and know how to practice efficiently, you'll see the results in performance.

I'm never impressed when someone has a compulsion to tell you how much they practice. I'll be impressed when they actually perform. This applies to a whole lot more than just golf BTW.

[pinhigh27]

it's not a direct quote since no one called them hacks....

It's couldn't care less. If you could care less, that means you care somewhat.

That's funny because hogan was the king of bragging about how much he practiced, meanwhile no current tour pros ever really talk about it.

It's not debatable that today's players on average work much harder at their games than did the guys in past.

[RoverRick]

Yeah what ever happened to the good ole days when we had deserved champions like Todd Hamilton and Stewart Cink and Ben Curtis, Mark O'Meara, Justin Leonard, and Padraig a couple of times. Guys who have dominated the tour and won several times a year. Well, maybe not.

[pinhigh27]

thats the whole reason it's more competitive now. because those random guys can come out and win a major, when 60 years ago, there were truly only 10 guys in field that could win the tournament.

If the lakers and the celtics are the only teams in the entire NBA that can win a title, that's a lot less competitive than if there's 8 teams that have an honest shot

[Anonymosity]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1438052666' post='12032028']
Its not about not caring, its about whether they can settle into a comfortable routine that gives them a multi million dollar career. You don't need to win anymore to ride the gravy train. The big fight though is to get on and stay on the tour. Do that and [color=#ff0000][size=5][b]a house in Florida awaits[/b].[/size][/color]
[/quote]

Ew, that sounds more like a punishment. Hard pass!

Edit: Yes, I get the irony, and maybe hypocrisy, of posting that when my location is "Detroit, MI".

[Shilgy]

[quote name='RoverRick' timestamp='1438134825' post='12038610']
Yeah what ever happened to the good ole days when we had deserved champions like Todd Hamilton and Stewart Cink and Ben Curtis, Mark O'Meara, Justin Leonard, and Padraig a couple of times. Guys who have dominated the tour and won several times a year. Well, maybe not.
[/quote]wow, now guys with 2 and 3 majors are called out by a guy on a keyboard.