Jordan Speith - Weak Era

[nicebutdim]

This is not a knock on Jordan Speith who is a talented young player, but the fact that a 22 year old who doesn't do anything incredibly, and is 30 yards shorter that Rory, almost won 3 majors in a row suggests something is amiss. At first I was confused and then I looked at the leader board this weekend and also thought about the broader competition he competes against. What I saw was guys like Mickelson who even though a great player is now closer to the Champions Tour than his prime, a prime that Tiger competed against and dominated. The same can be said for Furyk. Then there is Harrington who had a purple patch several years ago but is the definition of a player grinding the most out of his talent, and at 43 he still challenged the leader board. Also we saw the perennial "too-mentally-weak-to-win" nearly men in Dustin Johnson, Sergio Garcia (the old version), Ricky Fowler and Jason Day. The guys who make it look like a deep, talented field but are really just helping tv ratings whilst commentators try to sell you on their talent. The best of the rest was Adam Scott, Tiger Woods -2.0, who is should be an ultimate gauge of the strength of the tour. The only thing he had in common with Tiger was his swing and only won a major once the older talent declined. And bringing up the rear are the solid tour pros like Leishman, Rose, Westhouse-zen, Donald, Streb, Horschel and Zack Johnson who ultimately won.

 

Where have all the great players gone? Where are all the prime Palmer's, Casper's, Faldo's, Player's, Langer's, Trevino's, Snead's, Mickelson's, Furyk's, Singh' etc guys who were talented and mentally tough as nails. All I hear is that "the fields are so deep now". Sure, but where are the super talented guys at the very top that can crush it in Majors. The old guys from Tiger's era are still challenging the young 'stars' who can't get it done. That opened the door for a guy like Speith to come along and play consistent golf and show a bit of composure. And if thats all it takes to almost win 3 majors in a row then its clear there is a lot of snake oil being sold at the moment. Its like going to a restaurant with 200 'good' dishes on the menu and nothing truly delicious.

 

This is undoubtedly a weak era and I hope it doesn't last too long.

[CommerceTiger]

He putts incredibly..

[BoomerSooner214]

Wow.

[KYMAR]

Oh sweet! Another hot "back in my day,.." take.

Its impossible to compare the present and unknown future to a known and recorded past. At least without overlaying your own bias on either or both eras you're judging. You've done well there. So props.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1437459011' post='11990522']
Oh sweet! Another hot "back in my day,.." take.

Its impossible to compare the present and unknown future to a known and recorded past. At least without overlaying your own bias on either or both eras you're judging. You've done well there. So props.
[/quote]

The present as you call it has already taken place. Speith won 2 consecutive majors and nearly a third. The competition he faced is also known and their records (and some go back 20 years) are there to inspect.

[playa]

Furyk. Lol

[KYMAR]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1437459563' post='11990536']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1437459011' post='11990522']
Oh sweet! Another hot "back in my day,.." take.

Its impossible to compare the present and unknown future to a known and recorded past. At least without overlaying your own bias on either or both eras you're judging. You've done well there. So props.
[/quote]

The present as you call it has already taken place. Speith won 2 consecutive majors and nearly a third. The competition he faced is also known and their records (and some go back 20 years) are there to inspect.
[/quote]
The ones that go back 20years are not part of The Spieth, McilRoy, D. Johnson, Day etc era. Thats just beginning. You could have written this same thread last year and asked "Whos going to challenge Rory in this weak era damnit?" And that would have been silly today.

[carrier street]

This is so crazy, I'm ashamed to respond, but beer so here goes.

1. Love the Rory v Speith distance argument. Are you a Taylor Made as guy? Because you know what all of those commercials promising 15 more yards never promise? A LOWER EFFING SCORE.

2. Nearly all of the "mentally tough as nails" guys you listed have suffered from near or actual career ending battles with the yips. Nothing says mental toughness like the inability to consistently hole a putt of less than 3 feet.

I will now get off your lawn.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1437460024' post='11990544']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1437459563' post='11990536']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1437459011' post='11990522']
Oh sweet! Another hot "back in my day,.." take.

Its impossible to compare the present and unknown future to a known and recorded past. At least without overlaying your own bias on either or both eras you're judging. You've done well there. So props.
[/quote]

The present as you call it has already taken place. Speith won 2 consecutive majors and nearly a third. The competition he faced is also known and their records (and some go back 20 years) are there to inspect.
[/quote]
The ones that go back 20years are not part of The Spieth, McilRoy, D. Johnson, Day etc era. Thats just beginning. You could have written this same thread last year and asked "Whos going to challenge Rory in this weak era damnit?" And that would have been silly today.
[/quote]

The difference is that Rory is mercurial and when he plays to his potential he can crush the field by 9 strokes. That is a benchmark.

The reality is a very good but steady-eddy player almost won 3 majors in a row at a time when apparently we have the deepest most competitive talent pool in the games history. Speith's success suggests it may be deep but definitely not the most talented.

[quote name='carrier street' timestamp='1437460782' post='11990556']
This is so crazy, I'm ashamed to respond, but beer so here goes.

1. Love the Rory v Speith distance argument. Are you a Taylor Made as guy? Because you know what all of those commercials promising 15 more yards never promise? A LOWER EFFING SCORE.

2. Nearly all of the "mentally tough as nails" guys you listed have suffered from near or actual career ending battles with the yips. Nothing says mental toughness like the inability to consistently hole a putt of less than 3 feet.

I will now get off your lawn.
[/quote]

How many suffered from the yips in their primes?

[SunDevil009]

nicebutdim - Weak Post

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='TitleistDave2' timestamp='1437461072' post='11990562']
nicebutdim - Weak Post
[/quote]

Likewise.

[jmvargas]

"drive for show and putt for dough!"

.......there must be a reason why that saying has been around ever since i could remember and i started playing golf 57 years ago..

..jordan spieth's game is the best example of that....

[Yrrdead]

Maybe you missed this article about Speith's stats.

http://www.golfwrx.com/310268/a-statistical-analysis-of-what-makes-jordan-spieth-great/

[FargoRC]

What is the biggest equalizer in golf? Putting.

What Spieth is doing would translate in any era. You make a lot of putts and you are going to be bringing home some hardware or finishing high on the leaderboard. This isn't exactly something new.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='FargoRC' timestamp='1437462269' post='11990582']
What is the biggest equalizer in golf? Putting.

What Spieth is doing would translate in any era. You make a lot of putts and you are going to be bringing home some hardware or finishing high on the leaderboard. This isn't exactly something new.
[/quote]

True and his accuracy is good too. But Tiger Woods 10 years ago would have crushed this era and that includes Speith.

[FargoRC]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1437463066' post='11990592']
[quote name='FargoRC' timestamp='1437462269' post='11990582']
What is the biggest equalizer in golf? Putting.

What Spieth is doing would translate in any era. You make a lot of putts and you are going to be bringing home some hardware or finishing high on the leaderboard. This isn't exactly something new.
[/quote]

True and his accuracy is good too. But Tiger Woods 10 years ago would have crushed this era and that includes Speith.
[/quote]

He would have crushed in any era. Prime Tiger was like Rory and Spieth combined into one golfing machine.

[QEight]

If even the PGA [url="http://www.pga.com/usopen/multimedia/video/jordan-speith-us-open-chambers-bay-press-conference"]http://www.pga.com/usopen/multimedia/video/jordan-speith-us-open-chambers-bay-press-conference[/url] can not get his name right then it really is weak era, mentally.

[PZero]

[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1437463870' post='11990612']
If even the PGA [url="http://www.pga.com/usopen/multimedia/video/jordan-speith-us-open-chambers-bay-press-conference"]http://www.pga.com/u...ress-conference[/url] can not get his name right then it really is weak era, mentally.
[/quote]

That's awful.

[Jonesy]

I am still struggling to understand how this is a weak era?? Roughly the same guys are performing in every major over the last couple of years, Day has been an absolute dream in majors and Fowler, but because they aren't crushing the field by 8 shots at a time this era of players is weak? Surely if a player was destroying the field by 5+ shots every major then that era of players is weak because no one can challenge that player? I think it's awesome that there are bunched leaderboards in majors now and that it's not a dead giveaway as to who is going to win, there are rivalries now (note the plural of rivalry) and that makes all these tournaments so exciting! Perhaps you need to look at it that in this era all the current pro's are good and that any of them can actually win any given tournament.

Fantastic interpretation of Louis Oosthuizen's name by the way, westhouse-zen is definitely one of the more creative and ignorant ways of interpreting it.

[jubilee_links]

'Palmer's, Casper's, Faldo's, Player's, Langer's, Trevino's, Snead's, Mickelson's, Furyk's, Singh...'

Thats a good few decades of players you have in there - cant recall Arnie going head to head with Phil on the back 9 on Sunday.

Young Jordan Spieth is atually quite similar to Langer and Faldo - minimise mistakes

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Jonesy' timestamp='1437464550' post='11990628']
I am still struggling to understand how this is a weak era?? Roughly the same guys are performing in every major over the last couple of years, Day has been an absolute dream in majors and Fowler, but because they aren't crushing the field by 8 shots at a time this era of players is weak? Surely if a player was destroying the field by 5+ shots every major then that era of players is weak because no one can challenge that player? I think it's awesome that there are bunched leaderboards in majors now and that it's not a dead giveaway as to who is going to win, there are rivalries now (note the plural of rivalry) and that makes all these tournaments so exciting! Perhaps you need to look at it that in this era all the current pro's are good and that any of them can actually win any given tournament.

Fantastic interpretation of Louis Oosthuizen's name by the way, westhouse-zen is definitely one of the more creative and ignorant ways of interpreting it.
[/quote]

(b)oost-haze-zen?

Conversely bunched leaderboards full of players who are a known quantity (Rose, South African fella, Donald, Johnson 1 & 2) does not make an era strong. It can also mean there are no truly outstanding talents on display. 3-4 guys breaking from the peloton is ideally what you want.

[Bear Trader]

I was going to make this thread but decided against after I got a warning for saying I will root against Spieth. So yes this is true you know you are in a weak ear when the likes of Sergio who was crushed mentally by Tiger can be in contention time and time again going in to a major.

Just look at the people contending all the time in Majors - Day, Scott, DJ, Sergio e.t.c add the total number of wins they have and you will see this era is a joke. Compare that to Tiger, Phil, Els, Monty, e.t.c and you will see a clear difference.

[TimBen]

Isn't he above average on every single stat they track on the tour?

Suggesting he might be really good all round?

With his putting being way above average. His demeanor and mental strength also don't harm him.

I love Rory and have for ages. But the way Spieth takes on a golf course is very nice to watch.

His scores aren't bad either.

[vman]

This is a laugh out loud thread.To quote"to come along and play consistent golf and show a bit of composure" and "if that's all it takes to almost win 3 majors in a row" and "snake oil"….very funny stuff.

[KYMAR]

[quote name='Bear Trader' timestamp='1437468892' post='11990700']
I was going to make this thread but decided against after I got a warning for saying I will root against Spieth. So yes this is true you know you are in a weak ear when the likes of Sergio who was crushed mentally by Tiger can be in contention time and time again going in to a major.

Just look at the people contending all the time in Majors - Day, Scott, DJ, Sergio e.t.c add the total number of wins they have and you will see this era is a joke. Compare that to Tiger, Phil, Els, Monty, e.t.c and you will see a clear difference.
[/quote]


You want to compare the lifetime achievements of 4-6 guys mostly under 25 to the same number of guys who are mostly over 43 and call that somehow conclusive?

Also. You think its proof that this is a weaker era than previous ones because Sergio Garcia can hang around a leaderboard? Lol, wow

[Gem]

[quote name='Bear Trader' timestamp='1437468892' post='11990700']
I was going to make this thread but decided against after I got a warning for saying I will root against Spieth. So yes this is true you know you are in a weak ear when the likes of Sergio who was crushed mentally by Tiger can be in contention time and time again going in to a major.

Just look at the people contending all the time in Majors - Day, Scott, DJ, Sergio e.t.c add the total number of wins they have and you will see this era is a joke. Compare that to Tiger, Phil, Els, Monty, e.t.c and you will see a clear difference.
[/quote]

I would say the complete opposite. I thought that the standard of player during Tiger's era was pretty poor whereas now there are many players capable of fantastic play.
Tiger would have still won most of the events he won but there was not even one realistic challenger to him.

[rafal]

Tiger was the biggest beneficiary of a weak era.

[nicebutdim]

[quote name='Gem' timestamp='1437470108' post='11990734']
[quote name='Bear Trader' timestamp='1437468892' post='11990700']
I was going to make this thread but decided against after I got a warning for saying I will root against Spieth. So yes this is true you know you are in a weak ear when the likes of Sergio who was crushed mentally by Tiger can be in contention time and time again going in to a major.

Just look at the people contending all the time in Majors - Day, Scott, DJ, Sergio e.t.c add the total number of wins they have and you will see this era is a joke. Compare that to Tiger, Phil, Els, Monty, e.t.c and you will see a clear difference.
[/quote]

I would say the complete opposite. I thought that the standard of player during Tiger's era was pretty poor whereas now there are many players capable of fantastic play.
Tiger would have still won most of the events he won but there was not even one realistic challenger to him.
[/quote]

Phil Mickelson? VJ Singh? Ernie Els? and a very strong chasing pack several of which still compete today.

The idea that Tiger's era was weak and this era is stronger is complete baloney. Appears to me to be the opposite. When Donald, Westwood and Scott each had a go at being numero uno you know that things have tapered off. And players like Justin Rose having a sudden renaissance and cracking top 5. These guys went up because great players went down due to getting older.

[QEight]

[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1437471045' post='11990756']
Phil Mickelson? VJ Singh? Ernie Els? and a very strong chasing pack several of which still compete today.
[/quote]

I would not say they were strong as they were (mostly) just chasing TW...

How on earth can you really compare one 15 year time span to another when some people overlap eras and some only peak shortly/early/late/never?

[Gem]

[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1437471441' post='11990764']
[quote name='nicebutdim' timestamp='1437471045' post='11990756']
Phil Mickelson? VJ Singh? Ernie Els? and a very strong chasing pack several of which still compete today.
[/quote]

I would not say they were strong as they were (mostly) just chasing TW...

How on earth can you really compare one 15 year time span to another when some people overlap eras and some only peak shortly/early/late/never?
[/quote]

A strong era is when other guys can win against each other under the utmost pressure. Mickleson, Els and others did not have the balls to do this and noone else did either, that is why I say Tiger's era was particularly weak in comparison to other ones. Look at the time when you had Jack, Arnie, Player, Snead, Watson, etc. All could win down the stretch.