Men's day ideas.

[deadsolid...shank]

I've been visiting with one of our pros recently about the "demise" of our men's day, and we are looking for ideas.

 

In the past it's been well attended, but very casual. Most groups are well established and play their own game within their group. In the past then, everybody put in $10, $5 for skins and $5 for team total. The total consisted of one net ball per team using 100% of handicaps with the caveat that no one gets more than one stroke per hole.

 

Typically somewhere around 16-17 would win the team game. Our group, which typically consists of a one, three, three and a four finally gave up playing since we can't compete with the strokes (especially with some groups playing upper tees). As this game as dissapeared, the afternoon play all together as dwindled. They're trying to find something that will start to bring people back into the "big game".

 

The only idea I've had to even it out somewhat is to go to a one net, one gross ball.

 

Any ideas or thoughts are appreciated.

[Petethreeput]

Have you thought of a blind draw for the "team" games. Then your foursome can play Umbi but it might create more comeradery (sp?) after the round, and may encourage more folks to participate.

Just a thought.

[Guia]

Strippers.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1444790391' post='12453436']
Have you thought of a blind draw for the "team" games. Then your foursome can play Umbi but it might create more comeradery (sp?) after the round, and may encourage more folks to participate.

Just a thought.
[/quote]


I like the blind draw idea. But we still have to find a game that gives both the low and high caps a reasonable chance. Because the way it ended, it was getting pretty one sided. Take our group for instance, vs a group of four 20+ caps, one of them is going to make par most of the holes giving them net birdies everywhere. And it's doubtful they'll ever card a bogey. For our group, only one par five is a stroke hole, so while we'll make some naturals there, we're lucky to reach double digits under.

By the way, the skins were at net too.

Chris could probably still tell you who is each group. ?

[fore_life]

Make the team game hi/low? Lowest cap partners with highest and so on.

[Shilgy]

The fewer balls you count per hole the worse it would be for the low handicap team. Count two balls all the way around and you would be better off. Three balls per hole all the way would be better imo. Or two on the front and three on the back. One gross and one net would swing it too much to the low handicap team.

[Petethreeput]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1444793239' post='12453638']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1444790391' post='12453436']
Have you thought of a blind draw for the "team" games. Then your foursome can play Umbi but it might create more comeradery (sp?) after the round, and may encourage more folks to participate.

Just a thought.
[/quote]


I like the blind draw idea. But we still have to find a game that gives both the low and high caps a reasonable chance. Because the way it ended, it was getting pretty one sided. Take our group for instance, vs a group of four 20+ caps, one of them is going to make par most of the holes giving them net birdies everywhere. And it's doubtful they'll ever card a bogey. For our group, only one par five is a stroke hole, so while we'll make some naturals there, we're lucky to reach double digits under.

By the way, the skins were at net too.

Chris could probably still tell you who is each group. ?
[/quote]

I was thinking you were playing the team game hi/lo, and depending on the size of the teams maybe 1 gross/ 1 net if you are playing 4 man teams.

There is no way to make the skins equitable for disparate HI, at least in my eyes.

I think the blind draw, or having the pro shop look at HI's of those playing and then matching so the teams have similar handicaps could be the answer.

Split with Chris Monday but I get another chance at him this afternoon.

[PowerStomp]

It's tough to make things fair if every golfer doesn't have a handicap. I was handed a rag tag league that had anywhere from 8-40 golfers. usually we have a standard set of 15-20 golfers.

1st thing I did was told everybody that wanted to play you needed a GHIN handicap and you had to post scores. Thus eliminated 3 golfers who said they were 16 handicaps and would shoot 80.

So after the baggers lefts I had a decent group of guys who wanted to compete but not bet their life savings.

So based on the number of guys we have, I usually do 4 man teams and try to balance teams out by handicap. We always play best ball and I try and split the teams so that you are always playing against your competition ( Plus keeps the gimme putts down ). I throw match play in every so often just to keep it interesting.

We put $15 in and based on the number of golfers determines how many teams I pay.

Works out pretty well and the only issue I have is when I don't have balanced teams the team short uses a Ghost golfer that shoots par. New golfers that play that don't have handicaps - I calculate a 1 day handicap based on the score they shoot.

[hdr_ric]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1444793239' post='12453638']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1444790391' post='12453436']
Have you thought of a blind draw for the "team" games. Then your foursome can play Umbi but it might create more comeradery (sp?) after the round, and may encourage more folks to participate.

Just a thought.
[/quote]


I like the blind draw idea. But we still have to find a game that gives both the low and high caps a reasonable chance. Because the way it ended, it was getting pretty one sided. Take our group for instance, vs a group of four 20+ caps, one of them is going to make par most of the holes giving them net birdies everywhere. And it's doubtful they'll ever card a bogey. For our group, only one par five is a stroke hole, so while we'll make some naturals there, we're lucky to reach double digits under.

By the way, the skins were at net too.

Chris could probably still tell you who is each group.
[/quote]

Play best 2 balls net, and maybe 80% handicaps. Also, if some of the groups are playing forward tees, there is an additional handicap adjustment that you should be performing. Based on my experience, that should even things out.

Skins ... not sure there is a solution. I'd play them gross and let the high handicaps join or not as they wish.

An aside, 4 legitimate 20+ handicappers will all make bogey (or worse) on a number of holes, in my experience. A 20 capper is probably only making a handful of pars a round. Odds that they would ding/dong perfectly are slim.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='hdr_ric' timestamp='1445875608' post='12508264']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1444793239' post='12453638']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1444790391' post='12453436']
Have you thought of a blind draw for the "team" games. Then your foursome can play Umbi but it might create more comeradery (sp?) after the round, and may encourage more folks to participate.

Just a thought.
[/quote]


I like the blind draw idea. But we still have to find a game that gives both the low and high caps a reasonable chance. Because the way it ended, it was getting pretty one sided. Take our group for instance, vs a group of four 20+ caps, one of them is going to make par most of the holes giving them net birdies everywhere. And it's doubtful they'll ever card a bogey. For our group, only one par five is a stroke hole, so while we'll make some naturals there, we're lucky to reach double digits under.

By the way, the skins were at net too.

Chris could probably still tell you who is each group.
[/quote]

Play best 2 balls net, and maybe 80% handicaps. Also, if some of the groups are playing forward tees, there is an additional handicap adjustment that you should be performing. Based on my experience, that should even things out.

Skins ... not sure there is a solution. I'd play them gross and let the high handicaps join or not as they wish.

An aside, 4 legitimate 20+ handicappers will all make bogey (or worse) on a number of holes, in my experience. A 20 capper is probably only making a handful of pars a round. Odds that they would ding/dong perfectly are slim.
[/quote]

I like that idea. 2 best scores for each team. Realistically I doubt that we'll ever get the handcaps at 80% (although I 100% agree it should be). Everyone has always played using 100% and I don't think that will change. But if skins went to gross, that tilts that game back towards the better players. Each group then has an "advantage".

What I meant is they'll rarely card a net bogey, especially playing forward. Someone in the group is almost always making a bogey net par.

[deadsolid...shank]

Here's a thought for the tees. If you're forward (we go white, blue, black) or white, 80%, blues 90%, and blacks 100%. I don't know if that would make enought difference or not.

The argument is going to be (and I understand it) is they are playing the tees where their handicaps are established from, why should they then be penalized?

EDIT: Probably wouldn't work anyway. The low handicaps would actually benefit here too much. I would take my four up to the blue tees and not lose a stroke. I think it would have to be a six before you would drop a stroke moving up. And there's 600 yards difference in our blues to blacks. Back to the drawing board.

[hdr_ric]

Here's a thought for the tees. If you're forward (we go white, blue, black) or white, 80%, blues 90%, and blacks 100%. I don't know if that would make enought difference or not.

 

The argument is going to be (and I understand it) is they are playing the tees where their handicaps are established from, why should they then be penalized?

 

 

It doesn't matter what tees the handicap index is established from. See link/information below. (Caveat - getting stubborn, math deficient people to actually "believe" this is extremely difficult - good luck!).

 

http://usga.org/Rule...Manual/Rule-03/

 

 

3-5. Players Competing from Different Tees or Men and Women from Same Tees

a. Different Tees: Men vs. Men; Women vs. Women; Women vs. Men

Different tees usually have different Ratings. Because a USGA Course Ratingreflects the probable score of a scratch golfer, the higher-rated course is more difficult, and the player playing from the set of tees with the higher USGA Course Rating receives additional stroke(s) equal to the difference between each USGA Course Rating, with .5 or greater rounded upward. The additional stroke(s) are added to the Course Handicap of the player playing from the higher-rated set of tees. (See Decision 3-5/1.)

Example 1: If men playing from the middle tees where the men's USGA Course Rating is 70.3 compete against men playing from the back tees where the men's USGA Course Rating is 72.6, the men playing from the back tees will add two strokes (72.6 - 70.3 = 2.3 rounded to 2 ) to their Course Handicap.

[PowerStomp]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1445879419' post='12508594']
[quote name='hdr_ric' timestamp='1445875608' post='12508264']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1444793239' post='12453638']
[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1444790391' post='12453436']
Have you thought of a blind draw for the "team" games. Then your foursome can play Umbi but it might create more comeradery (sp?) after the round, and may encourage more folks to participate.

Just a thought.
[/quote]


I like the blind draw idea. But we still have to find a game that gives both the low and high caps a reasonable chance. Because the way it ended, it was getting pretty one sided. Take our group for instance, vs a group of four 20+ caps, one of them is going to make par most of the holes giving them net birdies everywhere. And it's doubtful they'll ever card a bogey. For our group, only one par five is a stroke hole, so while we'll make some naturals there, we're lucky to reach double digits under.

By the way, the skins were at net too.

Chris could probably still tell you who is each group. ��
[/quote]

Play best 2 balls net, and maybe 80% handicaps. Also, if some of the groups are playing forward tees, there is an additional handicap adjustment that you should be performing. Based on my experience, that should even things out.

Skins ... not sure there is a solution. I'd play them gross and let the high handicaps join or not as they wish.

An aside, 4 legitimate 20+ handicappers will all make bogey (or worse) on a number of holes, in my experience. A 20 capper is probably only making a handful of pars a round. Odds that they would ding/dong perfectly are slim.
[/quote]

I like that idea. 2 best scores for each team. Realistically I doubt that we'll ever get the handcaps at 80% (although I 100% agree it should be). Everyone has always played using 100% and I don't think that will change. But if skins went to gross, that tilts that game back towards the better players. Each group then has an "advantage".

What I meant is they'll rarely card a net bogey, especially playing forward. Someone in the group is almost always making a bogey net par.
[/quote]

I'll add that we play 100% of handicaps. When I schedule a round say at Course A - I specify that the we will play from the white tees - Slope rating 120.

Then with every golfer I use the Course Handicap Tables For USGA Slope Ratings xx-xxx - find my slope rating for the course we're playing and mark down all golfers handicap based on a 120 slope rating course. If I have Golfers that want to play back or forward I then use the slope rating for those tees. Keeps everybody nice and orderly.

When playing skins - I only throw 1 caveat out and that is no skin can be won on a gross bogey score. The guys that are getting 2 strokes a hole don't like it but without that rule you're higher handicaps tend to reap a large % of the skins.

This system works. Plus using the handicap tables allows mixed level golfers compete - it's actually pretty amazing how well it works.

I hope this makes sense.

[deadsolid...shank]

Here's a thought for the tees. If you're forward (we go white, blue, black) or white, 80%, blues 90%, and blacks 100%. I don't know if that would make enought difference or not.

 

The argument is going to be (and I understand it) is they are playing the tees where their handicaps are established from, why should they then be penalized?

 

 

It doesn't matter what tees the handicap index is established from. See link/information below. (Caveat - getting stubborn, math deficient people to actually "believe" this is extremely difficult - good luck!).

 

http://usga.org/Rule...Manual/Rule-03/

 

 

3-5. Players Competing from Different Tees or Men and Women from Same Tees

a. Different Tees: Men vs. Men; Women vs. Women; Women vs. Men

Different tees usually have different Ratings. Because a USGA Course Ratingreflects the probable score of a scratch golfer, the higher-rated course is more difficult, and the player playing from the set of tees with the higher USGA Course Rating receives additional stroke(s) equal to the difference between each USGA Course Rating, with .5 or greater rounded upward. The additional stroke(s) are added to the Course Handicap of the player playing from the higher-rated set of tees. (See Decision 3-5/1.)

Example 1: If men playing from the middle tees where the men's USGA Course Rating is 70.3 compete against men playing from the back tees where the men's USGA Course Rating is 72.6, the men playing from the back tees will add two strokes (72.6 - 70.3 = 2.3 rounded to 2 ) to their Course Handicap.

 

Ok, to be honest I've never paid much attention to the differences. So our white tees are 69.2 and the blacks are 73.5. So those of us playing the blacks add four "pops".?

[hdr_ric]

Here's a thought for the tees. If you're forward (we go white, blue, black) or white, 80%, blues 90%, and blacks 100%. I don't know if that would make enought difference or not.

 

The argument is going to be (and I understand it) is they are playing the tees where their handicaps are established from, why should they then be penalized?

 

 

It doesn't matter what tees the handicap index is established from. See link/information below. (Caveat - getting stubborn, math deficient people to actually "believe" this is extremely difficult - good luck!).

 

http://usga.org/Rule...Manual/Rule-03/

 

 

3-5. Players Competing from Different Tees or Men and Women from Same Tees

a. Different Tees: Men vs. Men; Women vs. Women; Women vs. Men

Different tees usually have different Ratings. Because a USGA Course Ratingreflects the probable score of a scratch golfer, the higher-rated course is more difficult, and the player playing from the set of tees with the higher USGA Course Rating receives additional stroke(s) equal to the difference between each USGA Course Rating, with .5 or greater rounded upward. The additional stroke(s) are added to the Course Handicap of the player playing from the higher-rated set of tees. (See Decision 3-5/1.)

Example 1: If men playing from the middle tees where the men's USGA Course Rating is 70.3 compete against men playing from the back tees where the men's USGA Course Rating is 72.6, the men playing from the back tees will add two strokes (72.6 - 70.3 = 2.3 rounded to 2 ) to their Course Handicap.

 

Ok, to be honest I've never paid much attention to the differences. So our white tees are 69.2 and the blacks are 73.5. So those of us playing the blacks add four "pops".?

 

Correct.

 

The guys playing up should use their index and the slope from the white tees to get a course handicap. You'd do the same using the slope from back tees. Then anyone playing the back tees would get an additional adjustment, in this example 4 strokes.

[Dada2Three]

[quote name='Shilgy' timestamp='1444846088' post='12455850']
The fewer balls you count per hole the worse it would be for the low handicap team. Count two balls all the way around and you would be better off. Three balls per hole all the way would be better imo. Or two on the front and three on the back. One gross and one net would swing it too much to the low handicap team.
[/quote]

Our big game is 2 net balls and 3 net balls on Par 3s at 100% handicaps and a net skins game. Everyone seems pretty happy with it.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='Dada2Three' timestamp='1445895342' post='12509802']
[quote name='Shilgy' timestamp='1444846088' post='12455850']
The fewer balls you count per hole the worse it would be for the low handicap team. Count two balls all the way around and you would be better off. Three balls per hole all the way would be better imo. Or two on the front and three on the back. One gross and one net would swing it too much to the low handicap team.
[/quote]

Our big game is 2 net balls and 3 net balls on Par 3s at 100% handicaps and a net skins game. Everyone seems pretty happy with it.
[/quote]

I like this idea too. Lots of good stuff guys. I discussed the handicap adjustments by tee box with our head pro today. I think at least we have some ideas out there.