Time Machine Greats Showdown

[Kirasdad]

I'd like to see them play 16 tournaments over four months

 

1. 4 Hickory

2. 4 Steel/Classic Era - blades & persimmon woods

3. 4 Modern

4. 4 with whatever clubs they think they play their best golf with

 

Now THAT would be some tournament series ... :)

 

Oh and they all use the same type of ball in each "quadrant" !

 

 

 

Using Geoff's creative (and excellent) criteria then I think Tiger, in his prime, wins comfortably. I think when he was swinging well, his late 90's move, his short game and putting skills would be hard to beat and would overcome the vicissitudes of the equipment over the eras.

[birly-shirly]

Moe Norman would be a good choice if the prizes were clocks or toasters.

I would have an extra-vigilant referee watching Gary Player and his caddy (cue Goldfinger music).

Five times Open Champion Peter Thomson may have been the greatest links golfer ever.

Bobby Locke won four Open Championships and competed successfully in America in the early 1950's,playing against and beating all the top US professionals of that period.

Greg Norman choked nearly as often as Ben Crenshaw.

Faldo might have won in '88 if his ball had not grabbed on the approach to that par five,he was robbed!

But at the end of it all I'm with '53 Precision....

Ben Hogan.

 

The "Hawk" by a landslide...

 

Well, the Hawk's average margin of victory against his own field was, what, 3 strokes?

 

I'd hesitate to predict a winner in the OP's tournament, but if you told me that someone had one by a landslide, I'd have a hunch that it would be the guy who occasionally won his majors by double-digits.

 

I'm kind of with Kirasdad on this one though. I just can't imagine golf being played any better than we saw in 2000. I grew up with the understanding that major championship golf was a tricky business, that champions had weaknesses, that favourites seldom won and that even winners hit bad shots. All that conventional wisdom seems to be suspended for 2 or 3 years there.

 

For greatest career, I still think Jack or Jones. Greatest act of mass hypnosis, Hogan. Greatest over-achiever - Trevino or Watson, either of whom could sneak the win.

[W C Franco]

Only the anally retentive would quibble about margins of victory,three strokes or thirty three makes no difference,if you win you win and the margin is irrelevant.

Mass hypnotism?Both Nicklaus and Woods benefitted from exhaustive media coverage,isn't that the same thing or are you suggesting that there was an element of trickery that Hogan introduced to make people admire him?

[scruffynick]

Moe Norman would be a good choice if the prizes were clocks or toasters.

I would have an extra-vigilant referee watching Gary Player and his caddy (cue Goldfinger music).

Five times Open Champion Peter Thomson may have been the greatest links golfer ever.

Bobby Locke won four Open Championships and competed successfully in America in the early 1950's,playing against and beating all the top US professionals of that period.

Greg Norman choked nearly as often as Ben Crenshaw.

Faldo might have won in '88 if his ball had not grabbed on the approach to that par five,he was robbed!

But at the end of it all I'm with '53 Precision....

Ben Hogan.

 

The "Hawk" by a landslide...

 

Well, the Hawk's average margin of victory against his own field was, what, 3 strokes?

 

I'd hesitate to predict a winner in the OP's tournament, but if you told me that someone had one by a landslide, I'd have a hunch that it would be the guy who occasionally won his majors by double-digits.

 

I'm kind of with Kirasdad on this one though. I just can't imagine golf being played any better than we saw in 2000. I grew up with the understanding that major championship golf was a tricky business, that champions had weaknesses, that favourites seldom won and that even winners hit bad shots. All that conventional wisdom seems to be suspended for 2 or 3 years there.

 

For greatest career, I still think Jack or Jones. Greatest act of mass hypnosis, Hogan. Greatest over-achiever - Trevino or Watson, either of whom could sneak the win.

Not sure I would put watson and Trevino as over achievers.....both are too greats in my eyes. I mean Watson won 5 open championships.....that's draw droppingly brilliant!

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

^^^^^ and TWICE at Augusta, his U.S. Open at freakin' Pebble Beach. a player of borderline talent is not an "achiever" of such things. what an epic career Tom had.

[scruffynick]

^^^^^ and TWICE at Augusta, his U.S. Open at freakin' Pebble Beach. a player of borderline talent is not an "achiever" of such things. what an epic career Tom had.

Couldn't agree more......I really wished he won at turnberry at the age of 59. His ball stricking is as good as anybody I've seen in the flesh.....faldo, Lyle, price being the best others I've seen

[birly-shirly]

Only the anally retentive would quibble about margins of victory,three strokes or thirty three makes no difference,if you win you win and the margin is irrelevant.

Mass hypnotism?Both Nicklaus and Woods benefitted from exhaustive media coverage,isn't that the same thing or are you suggesting that there was an element of trickery that Hogan introduced to make people admire him?

 

I agree. I was just trying to point out that expecting Hogan to beat all these other greats by a landslide is a bit unlikely. Don't you agree?

 

Mass hypnotism isn't a bad description for the hold that Hogan seems to have exerted on people, inside and outside the ropes. I happen to think Nicklaus and Woods had some of the same, though not perhaps to quite the same extent.

 

 

Moe Norman would be a good choice if the prizes were clocks or toasters.

I would have an extra-vigilant referee watching Gary Player and his caddy (cue Goldfinger music).

Five times Open Champion Peter Thomson may have been the greatest links golfer ever.

Bobby Locke won four Open Championships and competed successfully in America in the early 1950's,playing against and beating all the top US professionals of that period.

Greg Norman choked nearly as often as Ben Crenshaw.

Faldo might have won in '88 if his ball had not grabbed on the approach to that par five,he was robbed!

But at the end of it all I'm with '53 Precision....

Ben Hogan.

 

The "Hawk" by a landslide...

 

Well, the Hawk's average margin of victory against his own field was, what, 3 strokes?

 

I'd hesitate to predict a winner in the OP's tournament, but if you told me that someone had one by a landslide, I'd have a hunch that it would be the guy who occasionally won his majors by double-digits.

 

I'm kind of with Kirasdad on this one though. I just can't imagine golf being played any better than we saw in 2000. I grew up with the understanding that major championship golf was a tricky business, that champions had weaknesses, that favourites seldom won and that even winners hit bad shots. All that conventional wisdom seems to be suspended for 2 or 3 years there.

 

For greatest career, I still think Jack or Jones. Greatest act of mass hypnosis, Hogan. Greatest over-achiever - Trevino or Watson, either of whom could sneak the win.

Not sure I would put watson and Trevino as over achievers.....both are too greats in my eyes. I mean Watson won 5 open championships.....that's draw droppingly brilliant!

 

I'm a huge fan of both Watson and Trevino. By "over-achiever" I mean that, whilst I don't think anyone would put them in quite in the same class as Nicklaus, they were still able to beat him head to head.

 

LOL - I said either could actually win this event against Jones, Hogan, Nicklaus and Woods, and I'm being accused of running them down!

[carn9698]

Moe Norman would be a good choice if the prizes were clocks or toasters.

I would have an extra-vigilant referee watching Gary Player and his caddy (cue Goldfinger music).

Five times Open Champion Peter Thomson may have been the greatest links golfer ever.

Bobby Locke won four Open Championships and competed successfully in America in the early 1950's,playing against and beating all the top US professionals of that period.

Greg Norman choked nearly as often as Ben Crenshaw.

Faldo might have won in '88 if his ball had not grabbed on the approach to that par five,he was robbed!

But at the end of it all I'm with '53 Precision....

Ben Hogan.

 

The "Hawk" by a landslide...

 

Well, the Hawk's average margin of victory against his own field was, what, 3 strokes?

 

I'd hesitate to predict a winner in the OP's tournament, but if you told me that someone had one by a landslide, I'd have a hunch that it would be the guy who occasionally won his majors by double-digits.

 

I'm kind of with Kirasdad on this one though. I just can't imagine golf being played any better than we saw in 2000. I grew up with the understanding that major championship golf was a tricky business, that champions had weaknesses, that favourites seldom won and that even winners hit bad shots. All that conventional wisdom seems to be suspended for 2 or 3 years there.

 

For greatest career, I still think Jack or Jones. Greatest act of mass hypnosis, Hogan. Greatest over-achiever - Trevino or Watson, either of whom could sneak the win.

trevino and Watson were greats. Not over achievers. Sorry you had a brain freeze there.

[birly-shirly]

Well, Trevino didn't make your start sheet... ;)

 

You could put his and Watson's careers together and you'd still need to pull in Ray Floyd to match Jack. So, even although we're talking about ridiculously, preternaturally talented and driven individuals, they're still not in the same class.

 

Given Trevino's start in the game, I'd say he's as good an example of over-achievement as any. It doesn't have to carry a pejorative meaning, unless you believe that working your way to success is somehow a weakness.

 

Trevino never had the advantages of Jack's length or trajectory. For whatever reason, he was never able to contend at the Masters, and according to him, he only won the U.S. Open "in the mud".

 

Watson was a much better ballstriker after he had stopped winning majors. Prior to that, he was long, somewhat wild and a great scrambler and putter. A "Watson par" meant something similar to a "Seve par" and is as much a compliment to someone's golf as "over-achiever".

[Blade Junkie]

I think B-S has just gone 1-up :)

 

 

If I was one of these golfing Billionaires, like say Trump or the Go-daddy guy, I'd love to take this thread's idea and turn it into a "Field of Dreams" style golfing movie ... I doubt it would make any money at the box office but who cares !

[carn9698]

Well, Trevino didn't make your start sheet... ;)

 

You could put his and Watson's careers together and you'd still need to pull in Ray Floyd to match Jack. So, even although we're talking about ridiculously, preternaturally talented and driven individuals, they're still not in the same class.

 

Given Trevino's start in the game, I'd say he's as good an example of over-achievement as any. It doesn't have to carry a pejorative meaning, unless you believe that working your way to success is somehow a weakness.

 

Trevino never had the advantages of Jack's length or trajectory. For whatever reason, he was never able to contend at the Masters, and according to him, he only won the U.S. Open "in the mud".

 

Watson was a much better ballstriker after he had stopped winning majors. Prior to that, he was long, somewhat wild and a great scrambler and putter. A "Watson par" meant something similar to a "Seve par" and is as much a compliment to someone's golf as "over-achiever".

i hear a very loud truck reversing here. Had to do the same myself a few times on here also. Trevino was not dominant like Watson was, but what a fighter.

 

Some truths in what you say about Watson being a tad wild off the tee, but his irons were always accurate. I watched him a lot in his majors period and after and he knocked the pin out.

 

He was a massive hitter as a young guy though. Driving the 1st in 82 at Troon on the 3rd day springs to mind. With persimmon!

[birly-shirly]

Since when did explaining yourself become reversing a truck?

 

Have I inadvertently stumbled into a presidential nomination debate?

[oldschoolrocker]

I am placing my money on a dark horse, Lord Bryon. He seemed to handle the transition from hickory to steel okay, so I see no reason he couldn't do the same with respect to the modern gear.

[Juice__25]

Hmm, stick with me on this, an idea to level the playing field. No driver and No putter...Everyone gets one Hogan Ft. Worth 15 in a 20*. They get one month to practice and it's a one round single club match! Winner take all.

[birly-shirly]

Then Seve ...

 

... by a landslide ;) ...Trevino in 2nd!

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Ok, so, to get new life into this thread and skip further discussions on "achievement"... I'd suggest, and if you'd like something to do for a few minutes this week might be fun, everyone to seed this field of our for match event (to get to an even number I threw Rory in to represent the current era, and Mickelson in so we have one lefty)... so here in order, our collective input on players for the field...

 

Seve B. Greg N.

Billy C. Moe N.

Nick F. Arnold P.

Walter H. Gary P.

Ben H. Gene S.

Bobby J. Sam S.

Rory M. Lee T.

Phil M. Harry V.

Jack N. Tom W.

Byron N. Tiger W.

[birly-shirly]

My top 4 matchplay seeds (in order) would be Jones, Hagen, Seve and Player, except Player doesn't appear to have qualified despite completing a career grand slam! If Player remains NFI'd, Hogan can sub for him.

[Juice__25]

He went back and edited so it is more realistic. Must not have attached back half of the alphabet.

[carn9698]

Ok, so, to get new life into this thread and skip further discussions on "achievement"... I'd suggest, and if you'd like something to do for a few minutes this week might be fun, everyone to seed this field of our for match event (to get to an even number I threw Rory in to represent the current era, and Mickelson in so we have one lefty)... so here in order, our collective input on players for the field...

 

Seve B. Greg N.

Billy C. Moe N.

Nick F. Arnold P.

Walter H. Gary P.

Ben H. Gene S.

Bobby J. Sam S.

Rory M. Lee T.

Phil M. Harry V.

Jack N. Tom W.

Byron N. Tiger W.

strong field

 

 

[carn9698]

My top 4 matchplay seeds (in order) would be Jones, Hagen, Seve and Player, except Player doesn't appear to have qualified despite completing a career grand slam! If Player remains NFI'd, Hogan can sub for him.

player does need to be in.

 

Big Watson fan myself, so hard to put him in but he should be there. Little guy throwing the kitchen sink at the ball. Great fighter and way ahead of his time on fitness.

 

 

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

My top 4 matchplay seeds (in order) would be Jones, Hagen, Seve and Player, except Player doesn't appear to have qualified despite completing a career grand slam! If Player remains NFI'd, Hogan can sub for him.

entire field is available now.... and seed them off the strength of the player 1-20 (in your opinion) in relation to the FIELD, not their strength in just a match event! a great way for us to show our preferences... take your time (this one might need a PEN and PAPER, yikes!) there is no rush... just curious to see what everyone on here so far comes up with!

 

Seve B. Greg N.

Billy C. Moe N.

Nick F. Arnold P.

Walter H. Gary P.

Ben H. Gene S.

Bobby J. Sam S.

Rory M. Lee T.

Phil M. Harry V.

Jack N. Tom W.

Byron N. Tiger W.

[Blade Junkie]

I think Bobby Locke should be in ... have them play seven 3-balls ... :)

 

Or if 20 is the limit then he has to be in instead of Moe Norman, who, despite his legendary accuracy and ball-striking, really doesn't deserve to be included in this company in my opinion.

[Whiskey_fire]

Boys 2000 tiger blows these guys all away. He wins by 10-12 shots and the rest are over par.

[carn9698]

I think B-S has just gone 1-up :)

 

 

If I was one of these golfing Billionaires, like say Trump or the Go-daddy guy, I'd love to take this thread's idea and turn it into a "Field of Dreams" style golfing movie ... I doubt it would make any money at the box office but who cares !

my kind of movie

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

I think Bobby Locke should be in ... have them play seven 3-balls ... :)

 

Or if 20 is the limit then he has to be in instead of Moe Norman, who, despite his legendary accuracy and ball-striking, really doesn't deserve to be included in this company in my opinion.

I know, but I mentioned him earlier in the thread as a "wild card"... this is just a fun exercise... how many people might actually seed him above dead last 20th in the field? we will see!

 

EDIT: or if you want to throw Moe Norman out, and put in YOUR wildcard go ahead! we'll see what "wildcard" happens to get the most votes and include THEM in the seeding!

 

where I'm going with this is to see if between all our votes, we can get a vote count to "seed" the field.

[carn9698]

Boys 2000 tiger blows these guys all away. He wins by 10-12 shots and the rest are over par.

no way sorry but just no way. Tiger on 2000 and mid naughties was a phenom, but these guys had the talent to put him under pressure. They would not have been intimidated by him to the same extent or even at all.

[carn9698]

My top 4 matchplay seeds (in order) would be Jones, Hagen, Seve and Player, except Player doesn't appear to have qualified despite completing a career grand slam! If Player remains NFI'd, Hogan can sub for him.

entire field is available now.... and seed them off the strength of the player 1-20 (in your opinion) in relation to the FIELD, not their strength in just a match event! a great way for us to show our preferences... take your time (this one might need a PEN and PAPER, yikes!) there is no rush... just curious to see what everyone on here so far comes up with!

 

Seve B. Greg N.

Billy C. Moe N.

Nick F. Arnold P.

Walter H. Gary P.

Ben H. Gene S.

Bobby J. Sam S.

Rory M. Lee T.

Phil M. Harry V.

Jack N. Tom W.

Byron N. Tiger W.

 

Just imagine the tension on he practice putting green with these lot!

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Carn, ^^^^ lol, there would be none. remember everyone is stepping out of a time capsule, with a clean slate. nobody would know each other... every player and their caddie would be looking around thinking, "who's THAT dude and WHY is he wearing those ugly clothes?"

 

EDIT: I personally believe that it's clearly Hogan that wins best dressed award.

[Juice__25]

Carn, ^^^^ lol, there would be none. remember everyone is stepping out of a time capsule, with a clean slate. nobody would know each other... every player and their caddie would be looking around thinking, "who's THAT dude and WHY is he wearing those ugly clothes?"

 

EDIT: I personally believe that it's clearly Hogan that wins best dressed award.

 

Ooooh, I didn't want to mention this, but could you imagine some of these guys stepping out of a time capsule to see tiger playing? I would like to think, they thought game and not color. Crazy to think how far we've come. Would there be an intimidation factor there?

[Juice__25]

Carn, ^^^^ lol, there would be none. remember everyone is stepping out of a time capsule, with a clean slate. nobody would know each other... every player and their caddie would be looking around thinking, "who's THAT dude and WHY is he wearing those ugly clothes?"

 

EDIT: I personally believe that it's clearly Hogan that wins best dressed award.

 

Plus everyone from the future tense would know everyone from the past? Rory would know of the other's greatness? Tiger would know of Nicklaus. Nicklaus will know of Vardon, etc. Past exploits would be intimating especially if Tiger necessarily didn't know of his progress from 2001-2016, since he is 2000 Tiger. For all he knows he never got close to Jack.