what are your thoughts....

[tlhorsh]

Soooo....here is my quandary...i've never really ever been able to hit a 3 wood off of the deck, but once upon a time i could hit a 3 wood pretty well off of the tee...the 3 wood i've played for the last 8 years had one of the callaway uniflex steel shafts...i would spray that thing all over they yard....

 

i finally sent it in for a trade-in, and am looking at getting a newer used 3 wood but i've kind of been leaning to a 4 wood...the course i regularly play is not overly long (6300) and is pretty wide open (basically bomb and gouge). The par 5s are not overly long...

 

With the shallower faces of the newer 3 woods is it easier to get them airborne...would a 4 wood be easier yet...

 

I really value your opinion fellows and thought i would post here as opposed to the regular equipment forum and get some long winded technical answers....

 

thanks

[Fellaheen51]

Used a G20 4W for a couple of years. O.K. club, but found the shaft way to whippy. Always thought it may have been mislabeled. Switched to a V Steel 3w (and 5W) after reading all the hype <. Its true, really a stellar fairway wood. Shafted the 3W with a Grafalloy Epic that I had laying around. Have no problem launching the ball from a fairway lie. That had been a problem in the past.

 

Once one finds an agreeable head, then it becomes shaft related IMO. V's can be found at a reasonable cost on the Bay with prudent shopping. Lots of 3W's listed. Would think that a 4W would play similarly, with marginal at best loss of distance. Probably would have gone 4W, but the deal I found was a 3 & 5.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Morning!

 

I'd suggest not focusing on loft per se, as the way clubs are made now, there's no consistency between lofts, face depth, etc. At one time, I carried 2 x 5W in my bag, one 17* and one 21* - no kidding.

 

Furthermore, shaft is equally important, as depending on flex point, one can actually hit a higher, longer ball with a lower lofted, stronger flexed club. In short, there is little to choose from between a modern 3, 4, and 5W - one may be ideal for you based on a number of different factors.

 

I'm also not a big fan of shallow face woods either. I fought with a Nickent wood for a couple of years with no consistency, simply as the face was so shallow, it had zero forgiveness for swings slightly under or over the ball's equator. I was killing quail 30 yds from me, or popping balls hard left into a lagoon. Seriously.

 

If you wanted modern, my suggestion is to pick one you like the look of, and who's profile gives you confidence. That is the club that will work for you.

 

Of course, since you're in the classics forum, I'd instead suggest finding a nice vintage steel shafted set of persimmons you like with a shaft that suits you, and use your trade in dollars for new balls or shoes.

 

Me, I now I carry two persimmon Hogan woods. The 5W can be hit from anywhere, and is a money club. Tee, fairway, rough, etc. The 3W comes out less often, but is used off tees when the driver is misbehaving, when it's a short Par 4 and I'm aiming for a distance, or when it's windy, and conditions are firm, and I want a low running shot.

 

Actually, I think this may be some of the problem we have these days - no one wants to hit a low running shot that goes 210-230 yds - it looks ugly compared to an arcing shot that looks gorgeous, yet ends up in the same place.

 

No style points in golf, I always say.

[birly-shirly]

Probably my favourite fw is a 975F in 16.5*. Although that would be a classic 3 wood loft in real wood, it was apparently classed as a 4 wood by Titleist. I'm in no doubt that a little extra loft makes it easier to hit - I tried the next gen 980F which was a well-regarded club in 15* and did not get on with it.

 

I also have Steelhead 3W (15*) and 5W(18*) and I find the 5W goes very nearly as far as anything but a really well struck 3W.

 

I feel, unless a degree or two of loft is going to be the difference between getting up on a par 5 or long par 4, I'd always take the extra loft for playability.

 

I'd like to get a V steel, which I KNOW can be found in 16.5*....

[oldschoolrocker]

bs, I too am a fan of the older Titleist fairway metals, and the Callaway Steelheads as well. The Strong 3 Steelhead Plus was one of my all time favorites. Played it as a weak deuce and it was money. Broke the shaft, had it replaced and the club was never the same. Same thing happened on an old favorite putter back in the day. Was lights out with a Ping Pal 2, until the shaft broke. It was never the same. I picked up a Steelhead Plus 5 metal that's going in my modern bag. By far and away the best fairway wood, for me, was the blonde Ping Zing 3 wood.

[birly-shirly]

OSR - one of the things I did this winter was accumulate a pretty full set of ping laminate woods. I found Zings in 1, 3, 5 and 6, and Eye 2s in 1, 3, 4, 5 and 7. It's no doubt a quirk of my eye, but the black finished woods look smaller and better to me than the blondes. Looking forward to getting them onto the course as I like the combination of innovative design and traditional materials.

[Fellaheen51]

Also picked up a partial set of Pings last year on the dirt cheap. Eye 2 D, 4, 7. Something about those black heads and quirky shape was appealing. In addition, what was unusual and have no idea how common they were, the D and 4W were shafted with original Karsten Graphite shafts. The 7W is Karsten steel (Edit: Confirmed ZZ Lite in R).

 

Never got around to playing them (to many clubs, not enough time) save for the 7W. Very playable, really likes to go straight. Do not remember the loft (Edit: Per B-S, 29*), but a good substitute and some ways better than the modern 23* hybrid. A 170'ish club for me. Scooter ^ mentions a Hogan persimmon 5W. Use one as well with the same attributes mentioned with the Ping 7W. Likes to go straight. Since these are accuracy clubs, as opposed to distance, really questioning the need to have a hybrid in the modern bag. Particularly one that I've not hit all that well to begin with.

 

Another case of new not necessarily being better?

[oldschoolrocker]

bs, I don't think it's an illusion that the black eye2's are smaller than the blonde Zings. I believe they have a shallower head. Now, I like the eye2 as well. Have aquired an eye2 5 wood in great condition. It reminds me of a good retriever, sitting ready at the wait, calm, focused, give the command and its game on. Supreme confidence looking at it at address. A 7 in good condition would be quite the prize.

[birly-shirly]

The 7 wood is quite something. Ping was working to old school lofts, so the 7W is something like 29*! I got really lucky with mine condition wise.

 

The one concern I have is that, with that amount of loft, it looks like it has a huge amount of face progression - the leading edge seems to jut way out in front of the shaft. I'm not a huge fan of offset, but this is going to the opposite extreme. Maybe just something to get used to though.

 

I am hoping that with steel shafts, and accordingly less extreme lengths, I can integrate some of these lofted woods into the long end of the set more easily than graphite shafted woods or hybrids. Still need to be convinced though that I need to replace my long irons. Wind is a big factor where I play, and there's not a great premium on being able to hit drop-and-stop long approaches. With those qualifications, I still feel that the shorter shafts of long irons can still be easier to handle if a lower ballflight isn't a problem.

 

OSR - I have somehow acquired Zings in both blonde and black. I must measure and report back whether there really is a difference in depth, or if it's just visual.

[Fellaheen51]

Shallowface posted these two ads in another thread a year ago. Full credit to him. You had to mention that leading edge. Now that's all I see, looks like Jay Leno's chin!

 

 

 

[Boricua Golf]

I went from a 3W to a 4W and have been really happy with the results, it is a 17* Callaway XHot Pro (see signature), it is very versatile, off the tee is about 250 and off the turf I get around the 230-240 range, you are correct with the shallow head ease of getting the ball airborne, give it a try, it may be the best thing you might do for your game (or not), it worked for me, but it is ultimately up to you...good luck

[birly-shirly]

Sorry Fella - always happy for people to agree with me, but did not mean to poison the well for anyone!

 

It might actually make a good practice club for me. I can get a bit scoopy through the ball - maybe the extra effort to get that protuberance under the ball would be a good drill for me...

[Kirasdad]

Tad always says in regards to hickory clubs, "loft is your friend". This is also true IMO of fairway woods. Unless one has 100 plus mph swing speed I don't think a 3 wood should even be in the conversation, unless it's on a tee. I do agree that head shape and so on does come into it, but smash factor ball flight, etc. is usually so much better with more loft and a shorter length. One of the things I have been working with lately is setting up my modern bag AS IF it was a vintage bag. My Adams driver is 43.5 " long with a light weight grip and lead tape of the head to get the SW back to D2. I just as long as I ever was, maybe even longer, but more consistent. Same with fairway woods. I have 3 or 4 that I rotate in and out, none of them less than a 4 wood. They have steel shafts too. The shorter length is just easier to handle and the distance loss over graphite is just a few yards, and my dead center strikes are so much more cosistent that shot for shot I am probably longer with steel. I agree with Birly that the 975 series is a really good club. I have one that I bought for 10 bucks. The 975 is a small club head, as opposed to a shallow club head. I agree with Scooter there. They are not my cup of tea either. I have had a few that performed, but the odd miss is usually pretty bad.

 

There is a great post by Tom Wishon on the other (dark) side of the forum about downward loft creep and the disservice this has done to most golfers. In his opinion, all but the top most echelon of golfers would be far better off with say a 30 degree five iron and an 11 or 12 degree driver than 24 degrees and 9 degrees respectively.

 

Hmm...a 30 degree five iron, sounds familiar, ah yes, now I remember, my '73 Apex 5 iron was 30 degrees...when I was on the golf team in high school.

 

Back to the future.

[Shallowface]

Since the Ping fairway woods tend to be lighter than standard swingweights (generally C8) at their standard lengths, I always found them to be good candidates for extensions.

 

That way, I could have the forgiveness of the extra loft without giving up much if anything in distance. It's sort of like what Spalding did with their "half woods" concept, where for example a 3 1/2 wood had the shaft length of a 3 wood and the loft of a 4.

 

My go to fairway wood for years has been an Eye2 5 Wood extended to 43 inches. I can hit it as far as any 3 Wood metal or wood, and out of lies where I'd never consider trying a 3 Wood. It's a D6 swingweight (stock ZZ Lite), but that's never been a problem for me. And, for a standard 5 Wood shot, it's no problem to choke down on the grip, saving a slot in the bag for something else.

[Shallowface]

Shallowface posted these two ads in another thread a year ago. Full credit to him. You had to mention that leading edge. Now that's all I see, looks like Jay Leno's chin!

 

 

 

That extreme degree of face progression was evident on pretty much all of the high lofted wooden woods of the past. It was probably the biggest reason they never got over to any great degree, especially with good players.

 

The story of Lee Trevino's custom made 6 wood is a good example. He had Bert Dargie take a 3 wood block and cut the extra loft back into the head, which would eliminate a lot of that face progression.

 

It also explains why hybrids succeeded where lofted woods failed. The offset that a lot of people don't like on hybrids is as much as anything a way to reduce that face progression and make a 25 degree lofted metal wood somewhat palatable.

 

If you can get past the look of the old high lofted woods, they actually play very well, especially out of the rough. That leading edge beats the hosel to the ball by a mile and allows for some very good shots from the rough. A few good shots can make an otherwise ugly club seem beautiful.

[Fellaheen51]

SF, your last sentence above sums it up. Nothing like a little positive reinforcement to influence opinion. Wouldn't call the Ping Eye 2 an ugly club (not VAS ugly), just unusual in a quirky design sort of way. Has rather shapely curves that are unique.

 

Thanks for sharing the "1/2" club info. Always wondered why they were labeled as such. One more classic club fact learned and filed away. Actually got me to thinking a bit. The V Steel 5W is something of a outlier for me. Usually going 3W/7W. May install an extension to lengthen it out to a 3W length (43") and see how it plays. Yeah, think that just may be a real player. If not, can easily revert back to what it is currently.

 

Always something new to try in the never ending quest for the perfect golf club(s).

[birly-shirly]

I like the looks of the Eye 2s mostly, but comparing a laminate Zing 6 wood side by side with the Eye 2 7 wood, I would say that Ping made a definite effort to reduce the face angle progression in the later club.

[tlhorsh]

Well took the plunge today and ordered a 2015 tight lies 4 wood and Adams pro hybrid. We shall see.

[Wriggles]

The best 3W I've ever hit is the Callaway FT-iz. Second best is a King Cobra offset Ti 3W. Bought a set of the Cobras back in 1998, couldn't hit the driver or the 5W, but the 3W is fantastic. It's pretty beat up, but I still use it occasionally.

 

As far as the Ping black laminates, I have a 3 and 5. I extended the 3W a couple inches, and plays as well as any driver. Not good off the deck, though, I keep the 5W for that.

 

Earlier this year, I extended a R11 3W that I bought two years ago. I didn't like it in the least, seemed I didn't slice it, but it would just hit left as straight as an arrow. (I'm a lefty.) I've only since extension used it a couple times, for my left shoulder has been hurting for a month of so. I've been relegated to chipping and putting. But performance seems to have improved.

 

I don't know how long my shoulder will prevent golf, but yesterday, I hit a couple wedge shots and my shoulder started aching. A buddy had shoulder surgery in late January and has been in pain since. Doc told him a long road to recovery. I'd rather give up golf than get the surgery. Hard words, but hate the thought of surgery.

[scomac2002]

The 3W is a tough task master and yet like the 3 iron it maybe the most rewarding club to strike well. I've tried several different models over the years both newer versions and older. If I'm honest, I can't say that I hit one that much better than the next with the possible exception of a Cobra AMP. I suspect it has far more to do with the operator than the instrument. I play a 4W 7W combo now and have for quite a few years in the modern bag. The 4W offers a bit more room for error I tell myself as I usually manage to find at least one good shot in that club every round, but if I was truly honest with myself I wouldn't carry a fairway wood with less than 20° of loft if consistency was really the goal. Maybe one day I'll learn to listen to myself. ;)

[Juice__25]

TL, I use a 3w cut down an inch, and a 7w cut down an inch. Those may not be as long off the tee but in the fw, the woods just seem to perform as it feels I can attack down on the ball more.

[tlhorsh]

Just got the text that my 4wood and hybrid arrived from 3Balls.com now i'm like a kid on christmas eve...can't wait to get home to unbox...

 

and i know that i'm not talking about my classic stuff but i know you guys won't judge and give me all kinds of technical talk...

[stevemcgee99]

I played an older 2w and 4w off the deck and really liked them. Higher lofted than the later woods - 3w/4w - that are also steeper lie.

 

The older woods (M23) were shaped as if to squish through the fairway better. Always felt really confident. I liked the 2w for making up on longer par 4's or 5's, then I started driving with it.

 

4w is what I use on the hilly courses, especially Lincoln Park, Gleneagles, Crystal Springs, Tilden Park, Lake Chabot, Presidio, and Indian Valley. Need the height to get up onto those greens.

 

I wouldn't feel too confident with a metal fairway wood. At least not the one that came with my 'old' metal set I never use anymore. WAY too big! I like having a 4 wood the size of a modern GI 9 iron lol!

 

** And to me, fairway woods should be HEAVY.

 

SMACK!