Are all 7 irons created equal? The answer is yes.

[Z1ggy16]

I didn't know we all played golf on a simulator

You don't, but with HMT it's pretty accurate. Besides, if it wasn't valid why are people getting fit indoors at all? Furthermore... how do you know how far you actually carry your irons outdoors unless hitting to exact distances on a range? Unless you find pitch marks from your landing spot, the only way you know is by going on simulators to get good guesses, and by experience playing. Can you honestly tell the difference between 165 yards and 170 yards from the fairway just by eye-balling it? You generally just see the end result, which includes roll out.

 

My experience playing both players and GI clubs tells me that my 7i doesn't carry noticeably further (or shorter) than one another. I know that my GI iron rolls out more because on most of my approaches I find myself closer to the middle and back of greens than I do on the front when the flags are closer to the front of the green.

[phatchrisrules]

I didn't know we all played golf on a simulator

You don't, but with HMT it's pretty accurate. Besides, if it wasn't valid why are people getting fit indoors at all? Furthermore... how do you know how far you actually carry your irons outdoors unless hitting to exact distances on a range? Unless you find pitch marks from your landing spot, the only way you know is by going on simulators to get good guesses, and by experience playing. Can you honestly tell the difference between 165 yards and 170 yards from the fairway just by eye-balling it? You generally just see the end result, which includes roll out.

 

My experience playing both players and GI clubs tells me that my 7i doesn't carry noticeably further (or shorter) than one another. I know that my GI iron rolls out more because on most of my approaches I find myself closer to the middle and back of greens than I do on the front when the flags are closer to the front of the green.

 

Thanks for this and the video you posted. I don't know why people are getting so up in arms about this? I hit them all within 5 yards of each other. Don't believe me? Try it out for yourself and see what happens, maybe your results will be different. All I know is I tried it twice, did it again with different players with varying swing speeds, and I got the same results. I've said it before and you agreed with me that people on here think club designers are stupid or something. They know how to get the golf club to launch high, spin, and to go an anticipated distance. There appears to now be several tests out there that are at least showing that even at 5* of loft separation the carry distance isn't much different, or at the very least it is less than we should expect given the loft separation. Maybe it's all the guys who have bruised egos now that they can't claim they hit it a full club longer with their blade 7i because their buddy is using a GI with strong lofts that are chiming in with the snide remarks?

[Z1ggy16]

I didn't know we all played golf on a simulator

You don't, but with HMT it's pretty accurate. Besides, if it wasn't valid why are people getting fit indoors at all? Furthermore... how do you know how far you actually carry your irons outdoors unless hitting to exact distances on a range? Unless you find pitch marks from your landing spot, the only way you know is by going on simulators to get good guesses, and by experience playing. Can you honestly tell the difference between 165 yards and 170 yards from the fairway just by eye-balling it? You generally just see the end result, which includes roll out.

 

My experience playing both players and GI clubs tells me that my 7i doesn't carry noticeably further (or shorter) than one another. I know that my GI iron rolls out more because on most of my approaches I find myself closer to the middle and back of greens than I do on the front when the flags are closer to the front of the green.

 

Thanks for this and the video you posted. I don't know why people are getting so up in arms about this? I hit them all within 5 yards of each other. Don't believe me? Try it out for yourself and see what happens, maybe your results will be different. All I know is I tried it twice, did it again with different players with varying swing speeds, and I got the same results. I've said it before and you agreed with me that people on here think club designers are stupid or something. They know how to get the golf club to launch high, spin, and to go an anticipated distance. There appears to now be several tests out there that are at least showing that even at 5* of loft separation the carry distance isn't much different, or at the very least it is less than we should expect given the loft separation. Maybe it's all the guys who have bruised egos now that they can't claim they hit it a full club longer with their blade 7i because their buddy is using a GI with strong lofts that are chiming in with the snide remarks?

Just physics wise, the reason we are seeing these results is because it's a 7i. Swing speeds are slow enough for most players to not make launch conditions that much different. The shaft length is the same pretty much between all the 7i's, therefore ball speeds for one person should remain virtually the same, as the loft isn't going to have huge impacts on speeds (as shown by the video above). As swing speeds in the 80s to maybe 90s, the effect that loft has on the spin shouldn't be massive, therefore... the results are fairly consistent with logic. Now once you add in different lies, wind, slope, etc.. all bets are off. But to do an apples to apples approach, closed data like this is best.

 

If you did this test with driver, using 8, 9.5, and then 10.5* heads (same head, just different static lofts) with same shaft, with same player, my guess is there would be a slight difference with carry, probably to the tune of 5-7 yards simply due to the high speeds involved. The longer the ball travels, the more effect LA and spin will have.

[Ampire2121]

I didn't know we all played golf on a simulator

You don't, but with HMT it's pretty accurate. Besides, if it wasn't valid why are people getting fit indoors at all? Furthermore... how do you know how far you actually carry your irons outdoors unless hitting to exact distances on a range? Unless you find pitch marks from your landing spot, the only way you know is by going on simulators to get good guesses, and by experience playing. Can you honestly tell the difference between 165 yards and 170 yards from the fairway just by eye-balling it? You generally just see the end result, which includes roll out.

 

My experience playing both players and GI clubs tells me that my 7i doesn't carry noticeably further (or shorter) than one another. I know that my GI iron rolls out more because on most of my approaches I find myself closer to the middle and back of greens than I do on the front when the flags are closer to the front of the green.

 

Thanks for this and the video you posted. I don't know why people are getting so up in arms about this? I hit them all within 5 yards of each other. Don't believe me? Try it out for yourself and see what happens, maybe your results will be different. All I know is I tried it twice, did it again with different players with varying swing speeds, and I got the same results. I've said it before and you agreed with me that people on here think club designers are stupid or something. They know how to get the golf club to launch high, spin, and to go an anticipated distance. There appears to now be several tests out there that are at least showing that even at 5* of loft separation the carry distance isn't much different, or at the very least it is less than we should expect given the loft separation. Maybe it's all the guys who have bruised egos now that they can't claim they hit it a full club longer with their blade 7i because their buddy is using a GI with strong lofts that are chiming in with the snide remarks?

I did, it goes longer on course and the simulators. Never said your test was invalid, but just can't state a blanket statement saying all 7 irons are the same.

 

I've had different results, and i also have a different golf swing than you.

[mootrail]

Meaningless. Your premise is self fulfilled by your bias and results. Using only four irons of your choice and only Ping irons save one proves what? Maybe Ping designs their 7 irons to fit that distance gap. Otherwise, not much.

 

I know nothing about your golf swing or ball striking; but you said it yourself; your results could be skewed by your shaft choice. Base on your numbers, your shaft choice seems way too heavy and the wrong flex entirely. I'm close to you SS with irons and I would never put a heavy stiff board like a KBS Tour 120 in my irons.

 

What your results should really be telling you is: the KBS Tour 120 Stiff is a horrible shaft for my swing as I am not seeing any distance gain with different lofts in the 7 iron range.

 

Lastly, loft is a key factor in how far a golf ball goes. Your blanket title is completely false.

[Golfrnut]

I didn't know we all played golf on a simulator

You don't, but with HMT it's pretty accurate. Besides, if it wasn't valid why are people getting fit indoors at all? Furthermore... how do you know how far you actually carry your irons outdoors unless hitting to exact distances on a range? Unless you find pitch marks from your landing spot, the only way you know is by going on simulators to get good guesses, and by experience playing. Can you honestly tell the difference between 165 yards and 170 yards from the fairway just by eye-balling it? You generally just see the end result, which includes roll out.

 

My experience playing both players and GI clubs tells me that my 7i doesn't carry noticeably further (or shorter) than one another. I know that my GI iron rolls out more because on most of my approaches I find myself closer to the middle and back of greens than I do on the front when the flags are closer to the front of the green.

 

Thanks for this and the video you posted. I don't know why people are getting so up in arms about this? I hit them all within 5 yards of each other. Don't believe me? Try it out for yourself and see what happens, maybe your results will be different. All I know is I tried it twice, did it again with different players with varying swing speeds, and I got the same results. I've said it before and you agreed with me that people on here think club designers are stupid or something. They know how to get the golf club to launch high, spin, and to go an anticipated distance. There appears to now be several tests out there that are at least showing that even at 5* of loft separation the carry distance isn't much different, or at the very least it is less than we should expect given the loft separation. Maybe it's all the guys who have bruised egos now that they can't claim they hit it a full club longer with their blade 7i because their buddy is using a GI with strong lofts that are chiming in with the snide remarks?

Just physics wise, the reason we are seeing these results is because it's a 7i. Swing speeds are slow enough for most players to not make launch conditions that much different. The shaft length is the same pretty much between all the 7i's, therefore ball speeds for one person should remain virtually the same, as the loft isn't going to have huge impacts on speeds (as shown by the video above). As swing speeds in the 80s to maybe 90s, the effect that loft has on the spin shouldn't be massive, therefore... the results are fairly consistent with logic. Now once you add in different lies, wind, slope, etc.. all bets are off. But to do an apples to apples approach, closed data like this is best.

 

If you did this test with driver, using 8, 9.5, and then 10.5* heads (same head, just different static lofts) with same shaft, with same player, my guess is there would be a slight difference with carry, probably to the tune of 5-7 yards simply due to the high speeds involved. The longer the ball travels, the more effect LA and spin will have.

 

All else being equal, we can already compute the changes per degree of loft with launch angle, spin rate, etc. Launch angle is the 2nd biggest change that will effect total numbers, although not all that much. Spin rate does not change distance all than much at all. With a driver, there's little change, with the irons where the swing speed is lower and spin rates are already higher...it's virtually non-existent.

[bladehunter]

I didn't know we all played golf on a simulator

You don't, but with HMT it's pretty accurate. Besides, if it wasn't valid why are people getting fit indoors at all? Furthermore... how do you know how far you actually carry your irons outdoors unless hitting to exact distances on a range? Unless you find pitch marks from your landing spot, the only way you know is by going on simulators to get good guesses, and by experience playing. Can you honestly tell the difference between 165 yards and 170 yards from the fairway just by eye-balling it? You generally just see the end result, which includes roll out.

 

My experience playing both players and GI clubs tells me that my 7i doesn't carry noticeably further (or shorter) than one another. I know that my GI iron rolls out more because on most of my approaches I find myself closer to the middle and back of greens than I do on the front when the flags are closer to the front of the green.

 

Thanks for this and the video you posted. I don't know why people are getting so up in arms about this? I hit them all within 5 yards of each other. Don't believe me? Try it out for yourself and see what happens, maybe your results will be different. All I know is I tried it twice, did it again with different players with varying swing speeds, and I got the same results. I've said it before and you agreed with me that people on here think club designers are stupid or something. They know how to get the golf club to launch high, spin, and to go an anticipated distance. There appears to now be several tests out there that are at least showing that even at 5* of loft separation the carry distance isn't much different, or at the very least it is less than we should expect given the loft separation. Maybe it's all the guys who have bruised egos now that they can't claim they hit it a full club longer with their blade 7i because their buddy is using a GI with strong lofts that are chiming in with the snide remarks?

 

 

and the last sentence lets us in on the true point to all of this ... good try... but poop always stinks and will be found out..

[phatchrisrules]

Meaningless. Your premise is self fulfilled by your bias and results. Using only four irons of your choice and only Ping irons save one proves what? Maybe Ping designs their 7 irons to fit that distance gap. Otherwise, not much.

 

I know nothing about your golf swing or ball striking; but you said it yourself; your results could be skewed by your shaft choice. Base on your numbers, your shaft choice seems way too heavy and the wrong flex entirely. I'm close to you SS with irons and I would never put a heavy stiff board like a KBS Tour 120 in my irons.

 

What your results should really be telling you is: the KBS Tour 120 Stiff is a horrible shaft for my swing as I am not seeing any distance gain with different lofts in the 7 iron range.

 

Lastly, loft is a key factor in how far a golf ball goes. Your blanket title is completely false.

 

How is it a self fulfilling bias? I came into the test thinking I was going to hit the M2 about 12 yards longer, I was a little bit surprised I only got 4-5 yards out of it. I had a hunch designers know more than I do and figured they tailored their clubs to do such a thing, and I kind of exhibited that. Do you want me to hit every 7i in the store I can with a KBS tour? If that's what you want, I will. There have been several posts supporting my conclusion and a shared video with virtually the same results. I don't see how I'm wrong if multiple people are coming to the same conclusion. I had my manager (~88-90mph) hit the M2 and the iBlade with an X100 and he carried both 7i about 175, and another coworker with a 93-95mph swing with an X100 and he carried them around 187. My results stand. I invite you to go find two clubs with ~5.5* of loft difference and put the exact same shaft into them at the same length with the same ball and post your results. I think you will probably come to a similar conclusion.

 

What is "close" to my swing speed? I swing a 7i about 82mph on most days in the simulator with no warm up. Outside I carry my own 7i 165, and my results show about 85-86mph with it. I just went through KBS's shaft fit and got recommended KBS Tour S+. You're right on one account that I don't like the feel of the KBS very much, I much prefer my own shafts. I just don't see how it's relevant that what you swing is different from what I swing considering our swings are likely nothing alike. If it means anything I'm currently a 6.5 hdcp according to the app on my phone. I would consider myself an above average ball striker (so about average ball striking for a 6-7) than most. I don't really see how that's relevant though apart from me possibly taking more/less shots to get a few middle shots in.

[phatchrisrules]

I didn't know we all played golf on a simulator

You don't, but with HMT it's pretty accurate. Besides, if it wasn't valid why are people getting fit indoors at all? Furthermore... how do you know how far you actually carry your irons outdoors unless hitting to exact distances on a range? Unless you find pitch marks from your landing spot, the only way you know is by going on simulators to get good guesses, and by experience playing. Can you honestly tell the difference between 165 yards and 170 yards from the fairway just by eye-balling it? You generally just see the end result, which includes roll out.

 

My experience playing both players and GI clubs tells me that my 7i doesn't carry noticeably further (or shorter) than one another. I know that my GI iron rolls out more because on most of my approaches I find myself closer to the middle and back of greens than I do on the front when the flags are closer to the front of the green.

 

Thanks for this and the video you posted. I don't know why people are getting so up in arms about this? I hit them all within 5 yards of each other. Don't believe me? Try it out for yourself and see what happens, maybe your results will be different. All I know is I tried it twice, did it again with different players with varying swing speeds, and I got the same results. I've said it before and you agreed with me that people on here think club designers are stupid or something. They know how to get the golf club to launch high, spin, and to go an anticipated distance. There appears to now be several tests out there that are at least showing that even at 5* of loft separation the carry distance isn't much different, or at the very least it is less than we should expect given the loft separation. Maybe it's all the guys who have bruised egos now that they can't claim they hit it a full club longer with their blade 7i because their buddy is using a GI with strong lofts that are chiming in with the snide remarks?

 

 

and the last sentence lets us in on the true point to all of this ... good try... but poop always stinks and will be found out..

 

I don't understand....are you saying I did this solely for the internet points and to troll? You are mistaken. You can believe whatever you want about me, but the only reason I posted this is because I thought it was a good basis for discussion and it might make fitting yourself for irons easier. Hit the ball high with excess spin? Use a stronger loft, and vice versa. I didn't think I was going to be vilified for showing the results of a test.

[bladehunter]

I didn't know we all played golf on a simulator

You don't, but with HMT it's pretty accurate. Besides, if it wasn't valid why are people getting fit indoors at all? Furthermore... how do you know how far you actually carry your irons outdoors unless hitting to exact distances on a range? Unless you find pitch marks from your landing spot, the only way you know is by going on simulators to get good guesses, and by experience playing. Can you honestly tell the difference between 165 yards and 170 yards from the fairway just by eye-balling it? You generally just see the end result, which includes roll out.

 

My experience playing both players and GI clubs tells me that my 7i doesn't carry noticeably further (or shorter) than one another. I know that my GI iron rolls out more because on most of my approaches I find myself closer to the middle and back of greens than I do on the front when the flags are closer to the front of the green.

 

Thanks for this and the video you posted. I don't know why people are getting so up in arms about this? I hit them all within 5 yards of each other. Don't believe me? Try it out for yourself and see what happens, maybe your results will be different. All I know is I tried it twice, did it again with different players with varying swing speeds, and I got the same results. I've said it before and you agreed with me that people on here think club designers are stupid or something. They know how to get the golf club to launch high, spin, and to go an anticipated distance. There appears to now be several tests out there that are at least showing that even at 5* of loft separation the carry distance isn't much different, or at the very least it is less than we should expect given the loft separation. Maybe it's all the guys who have bruised egos now that they can't claim they hit it a full club longer with their blade 7i because their buddy is using a GI with strong lofts that are chiming in with the snide remarks?

 

 

and the last sentence lets us in on the true point to all of this ... good try... but poop always stinks and will be found out..

 

I don't understand....are you saying I did this solely for the internet points and to troll? You are mistaken. You can believe whatever you want about me, but the only reason I posted this is because I thought it was a good basis for discussion and it might make fitting yourself for irons easier. Hit the ball high with excess spin? Use a stronger loft, and vice versa. I didn't think I was going to be vilified for showing the results of a test.

 

im not actually saying that your only intent was to troll.. i dont think that.. But that last sentence surely had a barb in it and its only purpose was to troll....

 

To act as if you are going to take a MB 7 iron and hit it the same distance as say an M2 7 iron thats 4-5 degrees stronger is nuts.. the math doesnt add up...one guy may hit the M2 7 same as another hits the MB 7..but not if the speed and strike are the same...

[dog flog]

The international corps of engineers got together on the great seven iron hoax we get sucked into every time we try before we buy at the local box store, which is, if you live in the desolate hinterland of Upper Canada, Golftown. The seven of every set is designed to be the easy distance representative of the whole tribe. Most people won't bother asking to hit the five iron or the gap wedge...Around that thirty to forty degrees is a great range of loft with which to get easy distance for most golfers is all I'm saying. Try this with a four iron. Better yet, let me try it and let me tell you, the GMax would probably be up there, because it looks very friendly. Order me another round, it's OK. I've got the GMax. The less often I get to play, the more I seem to prize big, fat undadulterated, Mother Mary levels of forgiveness over the honing and maximization of my not quite so fine motor skills.

[phatchrisrules]

im not actually saying that your only intent was to troll.. i dont think that.. But that last sentence surely had a barb in it and its only purpose was to troll....

 

To act as if you are going to take a MB 7 iron and hit it the same distance as say an M2 7 iron thats 4-5 degrees stronger is nuts.. the math doesnt add up...one guy may hit the M2 7 same as another hits the MB 7..but not if the speed and strike are the same...

 

True, the M2 goes 4-5 yards longer. That's it. The video that Z1ggy posted confirms this as well. I also showed you that within 1mph or so ball speed they do go about the same distance. Everyone keeps saying it is just math, but it isn't. Ball speed is math, loft isn't. Just because something has less loft doesn't ALWAYS mean it equals more ball speed. If this isn't the case why don't we just fit everyone into an 8* driver and call it a day, if launch and spin creating maximal carry means nothing?

[phatchrisrules]

The international corps of engineers got together on the great seven iron hoax we get sucked into every time we try before we buy at the local box store, which is, if you live in the desolate hinterland of Upper Canada, Golftown. The seven of every set is designed to be the easy distance representative of the whole tribe. Most people won't bother asking to hit the five iron or the gap wedge...Around that thirty to forty degrees is a great range of loft with which to get easy distance for most golfers is all I'm saying. Try this with a four iron. Better yet, let me try it and let me tell you, the GMax would probably be up there, because it looks very friendly. Order me another round, it's OK. I've got the GMax. The less often I get to play, the more I seem to prize big, fat undadulterated, Mother Mary levels of forgiveness over the honing and maximization of my not quite so fine motor skills.

 

I did try it with a 4i, the difference was 5-6 yards. I used a Cobra King Forged Tour (the 2017 model). I posted this in one of my other posts in this thread. I invite anyone who doesn't believe me to try the test and see what they get. All I ask is you use similar parameters to what I did; use the same shafts with the same type of golf ball. Post the results, I am curious.

[Ampire2121]

im not actually saying that your only intent was to troll.. i dont think that.. But that last sentence surely had a barb in it and its only purpose was to troll....

 

To act as if you are going to take a MB 7 iron and hit it the same distance as say an M2 7 iron thats 4-5 degrees stronger is nuts.. the math doesnt add up...one guy may hit the M2 7 same as another hits the MB 7..but not if the speed and strike are the same...

 

True, the M2 goes 4-5 yards longer. That's it. The video that Z1ggy posted confirms this as well. I also showed you that within 1mph or so ball speed they do go about the same distance. Everyone keeps saying it is just math, but it isn't. Ball speed is math, loft isn't. Just because something has less loft doesn't ALWAYS mean it equals more ball speed. If this isn't the case why don't we just fit everyone into an 8* driver and call it a day, if launch and spin creating maximal carry means nothing?

Dynamic loft

[bladehunter]

I played callaway legacy black all last year with same modus shafts my 680 set has now and I hit them a full club longer on easy swings. If I went at it I hit the legacy some unreal distances in the short irons. I just don't buy the results. But even at those results 5-7 yards is 3/4 of a fulll club. So still not the same .