Why is the Golf Swing so complicated?

[NikeGolferTX]

People think you're supposed to swing or swat at the ball when you're not.

 

Keep the arms passive and just turn to the ball and let go.

 

It's really that simple of a concept but it doesn't feel natural.

[TTGolf77]

People think you're supposed to swing or swat at the ball when you're not.

 

Keep the arms passive and just turn to the ball and let go.

 

It's really that simple of a concept but it doesn't feel natural.

 

Your arms my feel passive to you but you wouldn’t hit it very far if they actually were.

[mikpga]

You are all amazing! Thanks for all your input... I wish you all a happy 2018!!

 

 

With that... I guess this is a learning curve/plateau I am hitting.

 

When you are a higher handicap, you are learning the basics.

 

when you reach a mid cap...you start to learn about equipment and setup.

 

mid cap well fitted- once you got equipment setup..... you trying to really tweak your swing.

 

mid to low cap- if you got the talent to play....your scores drop and now you realize there is a lot MORE to learn both minute physical and mental.

 

low cap - precise ball flight numbers and impact positions etc.

 

 

IMO this fits here:

 

And most golfers are in the first stage of unconscious incompetence.

[TheCityGame]

The golf swing isn’t complicated at all........unless you want to be really good. This is the actual question people are asking: Why can’t I be a great ball striker?

 

If you don’t mind sucking, the golf swing is the most simple thing in the world.

THE Golf Swing? You're doomed already.

 

There's no 'Golf Swing'. There is Golf.

I know Waldron (and others) wrote a lot of great stuff here about why learning a good golf swing is complicated, but I was reading this whole thread thinking what these two guys are saying.

 

If you're even chasing a "golf swing" -- as if there's this "entity" out there known as a "golf swing" that people can acquire like a television -- you're already lost.

 

What we really care about is "scoring", but at least on the very first "swing level", you're just talking about hitting a ball straight with power.

 

Imagine if we were in a world without instruction or a concept of a golf swing. We just told a bunch of people, "your goal is to hit that ball long and straight. You have years to work this out on your own." Well, they'd all start taking whacks at a ball.

 

Early on, they'd notice things like, "if I grip the rubber end, instead of the bulbous end, I can hit it better." That's thing 1.

 

"if I have my eyes open, instead of having my eyes closed, I can hit it far and straight more often." There's thing 2.

 

"If I grip the club with my hands together, instead of apart, I hit it farther." There's thing 3.

 

"If I keep my left arm straighter, that seems to help." That's thing 50.

 

Eventually they might realize minute details about timing, things like "if I have an early wrist set, I hit the ball better." But, that's thing 400.

 

So, where am I going with this? All the people that get to step 400 are going to look pretty similar. They've actually REMOVED all that slop that don't contribute to good contact. And I know you're thinking, "oh, that's not complicated. that's only 400 things." But I'm talking about reaching a very high level there and also, about 390 things are painfully obvious.

 

I think the problem with some instruction is that the student says, "tell me how to look like the guy at step 400" when we really have to go through so many of the steps ourselves to get to step 400. I just think at some point, if you want to be good you need to be those guys. You need to be at a grass range all the time honestly evaluating your ball flight, and your contact and making adjustments based on some knowledge of fundamentals to get there.

 

And if you are stuck on something, it might be a good time to see a teacher and then make sure you're doing the things the teacher taught you. That means -- for me -- slo-mo swings in the mirror, more range time, playing some throwaway rounds with the new swing thoughts until you've ingrained that. And hopefully you've moved past "thing 75" and now you can start on the next thing.

 

To me, it's not complicated. It's just time consuming.

[Exactice808]

Quick update...... So yesterday, shot a little better than I have recently, 84. Not mind blowing.... BUT... less complicated.

 

I know I over complicated my swing, again... flat left wrist, once piece takeaway, shallow shaft, forward shaft lean..... I dumped it all..... Just did the "No Mind" swing....

 

I felt much more free and relaxed...satisfying enough, I hit the ball pretty straight. I did not have much dispersion issues other than a consistent miss, due to me just developing my natural swing back, This will take time.....

 

 

Anyways.... I guess to me I am sure there are people that are hitting a plateau and or noticing a stale point in their golf. Maybe its time to go back to basics...... Let the mind go for a while.... because it sure was clouding my judgement and swing...

[thug the bunny]

Quick update...... So yesterday, shot a little better than I have recently, 84. Not mind blowing.... BUT... less complicated.

 

I know I over complicated my swing, again... flat left wrist, once piece takeaway, shallow shaft, forward shaft lean..... I dumped it all..... Just did the "No Mind" swing....

 

I felt much more free and relaxed...satisfying enough, I hit the ball pretty straight. I did not have much dispersion issues other than a consistent miss, due to me just developing my natural swing back, This will take time.....

 

 

Anyways.... I guess to me I am sure there are people that are hitting a plateau and or noticing a stale point in their golf. Maybe its time to go back to basics...... Let the mind go for a while.... because it sure was clouding my judgement and swing...

 

Exact, I posted earlier about how after 20 yrs of being a student of the game I am finally breaking free of 'body position' golf. I have done enough shadow work and mirror work to finally become comfortable that I normally bring the club to a nice 'middle of the road' position at the top unless I'm playing a specialty shot or compensating for something. So lately I have just trusted my BS and DS positions and now just concentrate on how the club goes through impact, especially face orientation. I control my clubface through feeling my right hand. Right palm facing right field, center field, or left field at contact (actually the left field one the right palm faces more like 3rd base or even your left knee since the palm is facing more downwards). It is kind of nice getting out of position based stuff and just thinking about how I want to strike the ball. It's more like how I play tennis, on each shot I just think of how I want the racket to impact the ball, and not shoulder rotation or wrist action or footwork or other distracting crap.

[Exactice808]

Quick update...... So yesterday, shot a little better than I have recently, 84. Not mind blowing.... BUT... less complicated.

 

I know I over complicated my swing, again... flat left wrist, once piece takeaway, shallow shaft, forward shaft lean..... I dumped it all..... Just did the "No Mind" swing....

 

I felt much more free and relaxed...satisfying enough, I hit the ball pretty straight. I did not have much dispersion issues other than a consistent miss, due to me just developing my natural swing back, This will take time.....

 

 

Anyways.... I guess to me I am sure there are people that are hitting a plateau and or noticing a stale point in their golf. Maybe its time to go back to basics...... Let the mind go for a while.... because it sure was clouding my judgement and swing...

 

Exact, I posted earlier about how after 20 yrs of being a student of the game I am finally breaking free of 'body position' golf. I have done enough shadow work and mirror work to finally become comfortable that I normally bring the club to a nice 'middle of the road' position at the top unless I'm playing a specialty shot or compensating for something. So lately I have just trusted my BS and DS positions and now just concentrate on how the club goes through impact, especially face orientation. I control my clubface through feeling my right hand. Right palm facing right field, center field, or left field at contact (actually the left field one the right palm faces more like 3rd base or even your left knee since the palm is facing more downwards). It is kind of nice getting out of position based stuff and just thinking about how I want to strike the ball. It's more like how I play tennis, on each shot I just think of how I want the racket to impact the ball, and not shoulder rotation or wrist action or footwork or other distracting crap.

 

This is exactly what I think I am going for now.

 

1) I generate good enough speed and distance

2) I have good enough mechanical and athletic motion to play

3) I have good enough theory and with GolfWRX to help evolve, to play better golf.

 

 

At this point... Getting a perfect plane, flat left wrist, laid shaft is meenigless if my body just doesnt like.

 

Its funny over the weekend all I did was reverse. Stood infront of a mirror to find my preferred "impact" position. basically all I did was swing to get into this feeling the most natural way I could no hands, harms, tilt, wrist manipulation... Its super funny everything fell into place.

 

 

The biggest thing was my release and timing seem to be in better sync rather than trying to manipulate it . This was evident when I took shots on the course, I didnt have to find it..... the only difference for my miss was just keeping it all consistent which should be more of a matter of time rather than manipulating.

 

 

 

 

*side rant*

 

I think I finally understand Mr. Waldon's points... I was re watching for the heck of it a bunch of youtube stuff, and when i stated contradiction instruction and Jim's point about implementing words rather than feel. It got to me that instruction is about trying to GET the body into the sensation. Much of the instruction is "exaggeration' to allow the body to compensate Its not meant to ACTUALLY do it.... but to initiate the feel.

 

 

I mean I was laying the shaft to flatten the swing so much, it was causing so much issues. I was trying to "BOW" my left wrist so much at Impact, to get the forward shaft lean. THIS was NOT the actual intent, but to get the swing to initiate but NOT be in those positions. I think I finally understood this.

 

Anyways.... I think my swing and positions were GOOD... it just didnt Looks or seem good when I heard.. you need to "shallow" your swing, or you need, to compress or hit down on the ball....

[NikeGolferTX]

People think you're supposed to swing or swat at the ball when you're not.

 

Keep the arms passive and just turn to the ball and let go.

 

It's really that simple of a concept but it doesn't feel natural.

 

Your arms my feel passive to you but you wouldn't hit it very far if they actually were.

You'd be surprised.

 

The angles you create by allowing the arms to be passive allow you to hit far.

 

When I first started letting the arms be passive, I thought I would never be able to generate power until I started getting results. Release has a lot to do with power I believe, much more so than arm speed.

[DevilDog]

This sort of amplifies what's been said about what complicates the swing in terms of searching for the perfect swing and that is practice isn't always done effectively. Best advice I ever got was to quit worrying about swing mechanics so much even when practicing. Pick a course that I know, give myself tight parameters and "play" that course on the range. Keep score too. Hit a bad shot on a par 4 for example, bogey. Hit two bad shots, double. Birdies shouldn't even really exist in this. The goal is to reduce the bogey and bogey plus scores. I believe this works because it applies a level of pressure. Make fairways tight, greens small, hit out of less than optimal lies if possible and I think it will help. There is a time to practice drills and such to improve the swing but to score you have to practice scoring.

[Quick Bucket]

It's not complicated once one knows how to conserve momentum when instinct and physical forces are knocking on the door suggesting and competing against you.

[JamesBurg]

An upright swing is complicated. A flat swing is not complicated.

[dlygrisse]

Because we make it that way.

 

What helped me through the same struggles was to quit thinking about the "swing" and what my body was doing and start thinking about the club and what it was doing.

 

1. visualize the shot

2. swing the club in a manner to hit the shot.

 

It's how Bubba plays basically, or John Daly....if you are a real analytical thinker it will help clear your mind and reboot things a bit.

[dlygrisse]

An upright swing is complicated. A flat swing is not complicated.

 

The fact that you even think of that way shows that you are over complicating things.

[Exactice808]

Because we make it that way.

 

What helped me through the same struggles was to quit thinking about the "swing" and what my body was doing and start thinking about the club and what it was doing.

 

1. visualize the shot

2. swing the club in a manner to hit the shot.

 

It's how Bubba plays basically, or John Daly....if you are a real analytical thinker it will help clear your mind and reboot things a bit.

 

Its seems to be working... Ill be busy caddying this year for the Sony so not sure I will get time to play this week, Last week was a blast....so hopefully next week I can get "back into the swing" LOL.....

[thug the bunny]

Because we make it that way.

 

What helped me through the same struggles was to quit thinking about the "swing" and what my body was doing and start thinking about the club and what it was doing.

 

1. visualize the shot

2. swing the club in a manner to hit the shot.

 

It's how Bubba plays basically, or John Daly....if you are a real analytical thinker it will help clear your mind and reboot things a bit.

 

2a. Impact the ball in a way to produce your shot, and let your body support said impact. You need to hit a medium draw 6i against a left to right wind? Think a little more in to out impact while holding a square face, and if the tempo is nice and you don't sway, it is doable. It is amazing how doable it is when you don't sway, lurch, twitch, or cast.

[vaterman]

I am, like you, an avid golfer. Golf instruction can get quite complicated, e.g., elbow at this angle, hands are here, begin the transition doing "x", etc. Imagine trying to learn to eat soup this way: dip spoon in bowl at a 45º angle, break wrist to get spoon at 90º to get soup in spoon, slowly lift spoon to mouth as you bend torso to spoon while keeping the elbow pointed...you get the idea...we'd all starve. lol

 

There are a wide variety of swing methodologies out there today. I think the key is finding the methodology that works best for you...not an easy task I will grant you. However, I don't think the swing should be as complicated as a lot of instruction makes it out to be. At one point, for example, I had so many swing thoughts it was almost impossible to hit a decent shot. Very frustrating.

 

During the 2017 season my HI dropped 5 points and I ended up shooting more rounds in the 70s than not, where as in previous seasons 5 rounds in the 70s during the entire season was a major accomplishment (I even broke par for the first time). What helped immeasurably was to stop playing golf swing and start playing golf. I trusted my swing enough where my focus throughout the entire swing was the target, not where my hips were, what my accumulators were doing, where my elbow was pointing, or how I began my transition.

 

It is quite liberating to just swing the club instead of THINKING about how to swing the club.

 

Another contributing factor was I played the same equipment the entire season. lol A first for me.

 

I have been where you are. It's incredibly frustrating because you put in all this time and effort and don't get the results you should be getting with all that time and effort. When I was at that point I started back to square one and proceeded very slowly. For example, I would chip, and chip, and chip until I was satisfied with how I was hitting those chips. I then moved up to pitching, doing the same thing, where it almost became automatic. I then went to half/three-quarter swings, and finally to the full swing.

 

Am I where I would like to be? No. This is golf...it's a journey, not a destination and always will be. Am I pleased with my progress? Yes.

 

A few other things I learned along the way:

 

1. To play within myself. At my age I am not going to be hitting the ball 300 yards, so I play tees commensurate with how far I do hit the ball.

 

2. A poor shot isn't a failure, it's a result. I learned to stop beating myself up over poor shots, or poor rounds. As a result the number of poor rounds especially began to decrease.

 

3. Short game. As a recreational golfer I don't hit a lot of greens, so a good short game is essential for me. I practice it incessantly. And the great thing about developing a good short game is you don't need to be young, or athletic.

 

4. I became more cognizant of my surroundings. Instead of getting caught up in golf shots (good or bad), missing a putt, or what have you, as I perambulated down the fairway I would look around at where I was, and began to appreciate the flora and fauna much more, the sun on my face, the breeze in my hair, and the soft ground under my feet, and especially those sounds of silence Mother Nature provided me.

 

Best of luck on your journey. And, please remember it IS a journey, and like any journey some parts of the trip are better than others.

What a great post. Reminded me of my last round I played a couple of months ago. The past couple of years I haven't had time to golf. 4 to 5 rounds a year was all and no time practise. Due to these circumstances I thought to myself before starting the round "To hell with all the instructions that plowed through my head. I am just going to hit it and get some exercise".

So I played trying to have no thoughts in my head. It was almost impossible but as I got to the second hole I started to get it. The only thing I concentrated on was to bend forward in my hips at address, look at the target and swing. All of a sudden I succeeded in having no thoughts at all. Just trust my body or swing. It was so weird and for the next 6 holes I played like I have never done before. Every green I was on in regulation and these greens were tiny. My putting was amazing. Birdied or par on every hole.

I literally couldn't believe what happened. And so I got to hole 8 and thought exactly that "It cannot be that simple. It must be coincidence" and sure enough. Now I couldn't address the ball without swingthoughts and instantly I couldn't hit a elephants a** with a lightpole. 9 strokes on a very short par 4 and haven't reached the green yet I picked up and went to hole 9 (all I had time for that day).

I really focused again on good forward bend at address and "no thoughts". Boom!!! 145 yard par 3 and I hit the stick, 2 put and par.

 

So it may sound easy "to swing without thoughts". It just is not. But damn... when I succeed in it = best golf ever.

[Sean2]

I am, like you, an avid golfer. Golf instruction can get quite complicated, e.g., elbow at this angle, hands are here, begin the transition doing "x", etc. Imagine trying to learn to eat soup this way: dip spoon in bowl at a 45º angle, break wrist to get spoon at 90º to get soup in spoon, slowly lift spoon to mouth as you bend torso to spoon while keeping the elbow pointed...you get the idea...we'd all starve. lol

 

There are a wide variety of swing methodologies out there today. I think the key is finding the methodology that works best for you...not an easy task I will grant you. However, I don't think the swing should be as complicated as a lot of instruction makes it out to be. At one point, for example, I had so many swing thoughts it was almost impossible to hit a decent shot. Very frustrating.

 

During the 2017 season my HI dropped 5 points and I ended up shooting more rounds in the 70s than not, where as in previous seasons 5 rounds in the 70s during the entire season was a major accomplishment (I even broke par for the first time). What helped immeasurably was to stop playing golf swing and start playing golf. I trusted my swing enough where my focus throughout the entire swing was the target, not where my hips were, what my accumulators were doing, where my elbow was pointing, or how I began my transition.

 

It is quite liberating to just swing the club instead of THINKING about how to swing the club.

 

Another contributing factor was I played the same equipment the entire season. lol A first for me.

 

I have been where you are. It's incredibly frustrating because you put in all this time and effort and don't get the results you should be getting with all that time and effort. When I was at that point I started back to square one and proceeded very slowly. For example, I would chip, and chip, and chip until I was satisfied with how I was hitting those chips. I then moved up to pitching, doing the same thing, where it almost became automatic. I then went to half/three-quarter swings, and finally to the full swing.

 

Am I where I would like to be? No. This is golf...it's a journey, not a destination and always will be. Am I pleased with my progress? Yes.

 

A few other things I learned along the way:

 

1. To play within myself. At my age I am not going to be hitting the ball 300 yards, so I play tees commensurate with how far I do hit the ball.

 

2. A poor shot isn't a failure, it's a result. I learned to stop beating myself up over poor shots, or poor rounds. As a result the number of poor rounds especially began to decrease.

 

3. Short game. As a recreational golfer I don't hit a lot of greens, so a good short game is essential for me. I practice it incessantly. And the great thing about developing a good short game is you don't need to be young, or athletic.

 

4. I became more cognizant of my surroundings. Instead of getting caught up in golf shots (good or bad), missing a putt, or what have you, as I perambulated down the fairway I would look around at where I was, and began to appreciate the flora and fauna much more, the sun on my face, the breeze in my hair, and the soft ground under my feet, and especially those sounds of silence Mother Nature provided me.

 

Best of luck on your journey. And, please remember it IS a journey, and like any journey some parts of the trip are better than others.

What a great post. Reminded me of my last round I played a couple of months ago. The past couple of years I haven't had time to golf. 4 to 5 rounds a year was all and no time practise. Due to these circumstances I thought to myself before starting the round "To hell with all the instructions that plowed through my head. I am just going to hit it and get some exercise".

So I played trying to have no thoughts in my head. It was almost impossible but as I got to the second hole I started to get it. The only thing I concentrated on was to bend forward in my hips at address, look at the target and swing. All of a sudden I succeeded in having no thoughts at all. Just trust my body or swing. It was so weird and for the next 6 holes I played like I have never done before. Every green I was on in regulation and these greens were tiny. My putting was amazing. Birdied or par on every hole.

I literally couldn't believe what happened. And so I got to hole 8 and thought exactly that "It cannot be that simple. It must be coincidence" and sure enough. Now I couldn't address the ball without swingthoughts and instantly I couldn't hit a elephants a** with a lightpole. 9 strokes on a very short par 4 and haven't reached the green yet I picked up and went to hole 9 (all I had time for that day).

I really focused again on good forward bend at address and "no thoughts". Boom!!! 145 yard par 3 and I hit the stick, 2 put and par.

 

So it may sound easy "to swing without thoughts". It just is not. But damn... when I succeed in it = best golf ever.

 

Thank you. :-)

 

I know what you mean! (The part I highlighted). After playing golf swing for so long, it's hard to make the kind of adjustment and play target oriented golf, even though the results speak for themselves. As you say, we struggle for so long, find something that works, and say to ourselves, "It can't be that simple".

 

This is such a head game.

[thug the bunny]

A while back I started a thread somewhere along the lines of "Does swinging without any thought really exist?". It was a pretty entertaining thread, with some WRXers with psychology backgrounds weighing in. Key words included stuff like attention, perception, awareness, consciousness; it was like something sponsored by Carlos Castaneda.

 

I am in the camp that there is no such thing as unconscious movement. Even just walking engages the conscious control center in the brain. Something like a golf swing definitely needs the brain to issue directions. I think the differences we are talking about here are a) how many directions (swing thoughts) there are, and b) how much in the 'front' of our brains are they?

 

Even though I professed to not focusing on the swing itself but only on clubface control, I am still aware of my BS and DS during a shot, but it's in the background so to speak, and I no longer obsess about them.

 

I have heard many times from tour pros that when they are on the course during a tournament they don't think of swing thoughts, only target and tempo/rhythm. Unless you're Nick Faldo; he claimed to have millisecond awareness of what the club was doing throughout the swing.

[Exactice808]

A while back I started a thread somewhere along the lines of "Does swinging without any thought really exist?". It was a pretty entertaining thread, with some WRXers with psychology backgrounds weighing in. Key words included stuff like attention, perception, awareness, consciousness; it was like something sponsored by Carlos Castaneda.

 

I am in the camp that there is no such thing as unconscious movement. Even just walking engages the conscious control center in the brain. Something like a golf swing definitely needs the brain to issue directions. I think the differences we are talking about here are a) how many directions (swing thoughts) there are, and b) how much in the 'front' of our brains are they?

 

Even though I professed to not focusing on the swing itself but only on clubface control, I am still aware of my BS and DS during a shot, but it's in the background so to speak, and I no longer obsess about them.

 

I have heard many times from tour pros that when they are on the course during a tournament they don't think of swing thoughts, only target and tempo/rhythm. Unless you're Nick Faldo; he claimed to have millisecond awareness of what the club was doing throughout the swing.

 

I too agree there is no swing without any thought. I think its the OVER complication that I have developed that causes more issues than its worth.

 

I remember when I first started serious golf 6 years ago, My thoughts were so simple just hit the center of the club....... As I got better, small suggestions crept in.

 

At this point, I have shot some of lowest score YET, I want to keep tweaking...again trying to reach a "Perfect" swing, This is where I cripple and I am sure many others cripple themselves..... Back swing... low and away... Wide, flat left wrist at the top, initiated the lag, start with the lower party of the body. Blah Blah Blah...

 

Its so bad that now I THINK through the Whole swing.... rather than just key points..... I mean every movement has a thought.

 

 

I agree with the point there should be "some" thought, But more specifics rather than a complete swing thought. Like you stated, focus purely on face angle or... focus on tempo.... But really keep it simple......

 

Anyways.... again sorry gonna find out who we are with in the pro am this year tonight will keep you all posted LOL!

[Exactice808]

QDUHIDVH@*)(Y#()*YT()*$H%$HW Darn it!!!!

 

What a round........ the wind was INSANE today, Gust up to 32 mph with constants 15-25mph, NUTS..

 

Anyways..... sticking to my NO thought round..... I shot 37 on the front, 3 bogeys, 2 birdies, 4 pars....

 

 

Then ... the glass broke.... shot 47 back, 2 triples, 1 double, 3 bogeys, 3 pars...

 

BUT I am going to blame the wind for the 2 triples, man it yanked my ball hazard twice.... the double was just errors and I missed 2 cirtical short putts that was on me.... So with all that madness......84.... pretty darn good for getting back into it...

 

 

Distances where still on par, didnt lose any distance. Direction is MUCH tighter just swing naturally rather than having all these swing thoughts...... Playing with the flight and spin all about the same as well.....so rather then trying to manipulate face control just swinging and letting it happen.....

 

 

Fun confidence boosting round!

[thug the bunny]

QDUHIDVH@*)(Y#()*YT()*$H%$HW Darn it!!!!

 

What a round........ the wind was INSANE today thought Gust up to 32 mph with constants 15-25mph, NUTS..

 

Anyways..... sticking to my NO thought round..... I shot 37 on the front, 3 bogeys, 2 birdies, 4 pars....

 

 

Then ... the glass broke.... shot 47 back, 2 triples, 1 double, 3 bogeys, 3 pars...

 

BUT I am going to blame the wind for the 2 triples man I yanked my ball hazard twice.... the double was just errors and I missed 2 cirtical short putts that was on me.... So with all that madness......84.... pretty darn good for getting back into it...

 

 

Distances where still on par, didnt lose any distance. Direction is MUCH tighter just swing naturally rather than having all these swing thoughts...... Playing with the flight and spin all about the same as well.....so rather then trying to manipulate face control just swinging and letting it happen.....

 

 

Fun confidence boosting round!

 

Cool Ex, sounds like even though you weren't 'manipulating' the face you must have had control over it. I actually like playing in wind where I have to always be conscious of how I flight my ball (I sometimes even hit a bladed shot just to keep it down and roll it up). Keeps me 'in the moment'.

[Harleyweedwhacks]

The golf swing isn't complicated. It's been made complicated by instructors trying to sell lessons and keep you struggling so that they earn more money.

 

The golf swing is simple: grip, alignment, posture, turning on the backswing, and hitting through the ball. That's it. Hit the damn thing and worry later.

 

Forget the golf swing. Play the game.

 

And I bet if you play a bit more conservative with your course management would help your score too.

 

I beat a 7 handicap today, and right now mine has gone up to 9.9 because of some bad rounds, but in general I'm around an 8. I beat the 7 by 5 shots. He shot 88, I shot 83. He hasn't played in two months, so it was easy compared to if he were practicing every day, but I still beat him, because I didn't go for stupid flag locations and didn't play too aggressive. I played safely and took three woods off the tee where he'd take driver, and I'd score better in general.

 

Another thing is short game. Most people ignore this part of the game. Don't. It crucial to scoring.

 

Putting. I hit 10 greens today, and had 38 putts. I three putted five times, and four putted once. One putted four times, but really was putting from just off the green, so statistically doesn't count as a two putt. Just goes to prove that if you can get up and down, and two putt all greens, you'd score well.

 

It's not always about the golf swing. It's playing golf, playing the course correctly, avoiding big mistakes, not three putting, getting up and down, and getting somewhere near the green in regulation. You don't have to hit the green, but when you do miss, miss in the right place. When you can miss all your greens, and shoot around 74, you're a player.

[Sean2]

People think you're supposed to swing or swat at the ball when you're not.

 

Keep the arms passive and just turn to the ball and let go.

 

It's really that simple of a concept but it doesn't feel natural.

 

Your arms my feel passive to you but you wouldn't hit it very far if they actually were.

You'd be surprised.

 

The angles you create by allowing the arms to be passive allow you to hit far.

 

When I first started letting the arms be passive, I thought I would never be able to generate power until I started getting results. Release has a lot to do with power I believe, much more so than arm speed.

 

In my "no I am not a golf instructor" opinion, getting the arms and/or hands involved creates a swing that is timing based. If your timing is good, you will play well, if it's just a bit off...well, not so much.

[Harleyweedwhacks]

People think you're supposed to swing or swat at the ball when you're not.

 

Keep the arms passive and just turn to the ball and let go.

 

It's really that simple of a concept but it doesn't feel natural.

 

Your arms my feel passive to you but you wouldn't hit it very far if they actually were.

You'd be surprised.

 

The angles you create by allowing the arms to be passive allow you to hit far.

 

When I first started letting the arms be passive, I thought I would never be able to generate power until I started getting results. Release has a lot to do with power I believe, much more so than arm speed.

 

In my "no I am not a golf instructor" opinion, getting the arms and/or hands involved creates a swing that is timing based. If your timing is good, you will play well, if it's just a bit off...well, not so much.

 

I use my hands in every swing I make, and I'm the best ball striker at my club. The hands create feel, which creates better timing, not worse. The reason people come over the top is mostly because they fade the ball, and they're trying to hit it dead straight, instead of simply aiming a bit left, and fading it back towards the center. Over the top isn't created by swinging the hands and arms down first. I swing with my hands and arms, but I also turn my body. The hands lead, the body goes where the hands go. I could easily beat you in a ball striking match, because I have superior feel. Using the body too much gets your arms in random positon making it impossible to strike the ball solid. And maybe using your body too much is another reason you might come over the top.

[oikos1]

The golf swing isn't complicated. It's been made complicated by instructors trying to sell lessons and keep you struggling so that they earn more money.

 

The golf swing is simple: grip, alignment, posture, turning on the backswing, and hitting through the ball. That's it. Hit the damn thing and worry later.

 

Forget the golf swing. Play the game.

 

And I bet if you play a bit more conservative with your course management would help your score too.

 

I beat a 7 handicap today, and right now mine has gone up to 9.9 because of some bad rounds, but in general I'm around an 8. I beat the 7 by 5 shots. He shot 88, I shot 83. He hasn't played in two months, so it was easy compared to if he were practicing every day, but I still beat him, because I didn't go for stupid flag locations and didn't play too aggressive. I played safely and took three woods off the tee where he'd take driver, and I'd score better in general.

 

Another thing is short game. Most people ignore this part of the game. Don't. It crucial to scoring.

 

Putting. I hit 10 greens today, and had 38 putts. I three putted five times, and four putted once. One putted four times, but really was putting from just off the green, so statistically doesn't count as a two putt. Just goes to prove that if you can get up and down, and two putt all greens, you'd score well.

 

It's not always about the golf swing. It's playing golf, playing the course correctly, avoiding big mistakes, not three putting, getting up and down, and getting somewhere near the green in regulation. You don't have to hit the green, but when you do miss, miss in the right place. When you can miss all your greens, and shoot around 74, you're a player.

 

Is this typical or wth happened?

[Harleyweedwhacks]

The golf swing isn't complicated. It's been made complicated by instructors trying to sell lessons and keep you struggling so that they earn more money.

 

The golf swing is simple: grip, alignment, posture, turning on the backswing, and hitting through the ball. That's it. Hit the damn thing and worry later.

 

Forget the golf swing. Play the game.

 

And I bet if you play a bit more conservative with your course management would help your score too.

 

I beat a 7 handicap today, and right now mine has gone up to 9.9 because of some bad rounds, but in general I'm around an 8. I beat the 7 by 5 shots. He shot 88, I shot 83. He hasn't played in two months, so it was easy compared to if he were practicing every day, but I still beat him, because I didn't go for stupid flag locations and didn't play too aggressive. I played safely and took three woods off the tee where he'd take driver, and I'd score better in general.

 

Another thing is short game. Most people ignore this part of the game. Don't. It crucial to scoring.

 

Putting. I hit 10 greens today, and had 38 putts. I three putted five times, and four putted once. One putted four times, but really was putting from just off the green, so statistically doesn't count as a two putt. Just goes to prove that if you can get up and down, and two putt all greens, you'd score well.

 

It's not always about the golf swing. It's playing golf, playing the course correctly, avoiding big mistakes, not three putting, getting up and down, and getting somewhere near the green in regulation. You don't have to hit the green, but when you do miss, miss in the right place. When you can miss all your greens, and shoot around 74, you're a player.

 

Is this typical or wth happened?

 

My putting is horrendous. It is typical, and common for me to take over 40 putts a round, and still shoot low 80's. If I could better my putting by at least 12 strokes, I'd be a scratch player. This goes to prove my point, that it's not always ball striking, but the small, seemingly unimportant things that make the score difference.

 

My putting has gotten so bad that three putts on a green in reg is around 70%. I two putt sometimes, but that's rare. I one putt sometimes, because my short game is tour standard, but I can't hole a two foot putt, but sometimes I get the chip within a foot so I one putt on occasion

 

My ball striking is almost professional level, not PGA Tour or anything like that, but I average around 10 greens, so that would work on a minitour or something. I only hit the ball around 260 with driver, but it's always in the fairway and I can consistently reach greens even from the back tees, which at my course play around 6,900 yards. And my fairways are really slow, so I don't get much rollout, in fact it just stops where it's at, and I constantly have a plugged lie. It's not my spinrate, but just the fact that the fairways play so slow that the ball goes nowhere. So my ball striking has never been the problem, nor my short game or course management. And for most people who strike the ball well, their problem isn't anything more than either short game, course management, or putting. When I'm giving advice, it's mostly to better players. I don't like to teach hackers.

 

This just goes to prove the point I made, that it's not always the golf swing that makes the difference. If I could take less than 30 putts a round on a consistent basis, I'd be minitour level, and I could easily win some events. But averaging 41 putts a round never helps, and I shoot in the low 80's while taking that amount of putts. If I took, say, 28 putts a round, that's automatically under par, and if I took less than that on occasion, I'd be winning some tourneys. But dream as I will, I probably won't ever make it because of the putting yips.

[oikos1]

The golf swing isn't complicated. It's been made complicated by instructors trying to sell lessons and keep you struggling so that they earn more money.

 

The golf swing is simple: grip, alignment, posture, turning on the backswing, and hitting through the ball. That's it. Hit the damn thing and worry later.

 

Forget the golf swing. Play the game.

 

And I bet if you play a bit more conservative with your course management would help your score too.

 

I beat a 7 handicap today, and right now mine has gone up to 9.9 because of some bad rounds, but in general I'm around an 8. I beat the 7 by 5 shots. He shot 88, I shot 83. He hasn't played in two months, so it was easy compared to if he were practicing every day, but I still beat him, because I didn't go for stupid flag locations and didn't play too aggressive. I played safely and took three woods off the tee where he'd take driver, and I'd score better in general.

 

Another thing is short game. Most people ignore this part of the game. Don't. It crucial to scoring.

 

Putting. I hit 10 greens today, and had 38 putts. I three putted five times, and four putted once. One putted four times, but really was putting from just off the green, so statistically doesn't count as a two putt. Just goes to prove that if you can get up and down, and two putt all greens, you'd score well.

 

It's not always about the golf swing. It's playing golf, playing the course correctly, avoiding big mistakes, not three putting, getting up and down, and getting somewhere near the green in regulation. You don't have to hit the green, but when you do miss, miss in the right place. When you can miss all your greens, and shoot around 74, you're a player.

 

Is this typical or wth happened?

 

My putting is horrendous. It is typical, and common for me to take over 40 putts a round, and still shoot low 80's. If I could better my putting by at least 12 strokes, I'd be a scratch player. This goes to prove my point, that it's not always ball striking, but the small, seemingly unimportant things that make the score difference.

 

My putting has gotten so bad that three putts on a green in reg is around 70%. I two putt sometimes, but that's rare. I one putt sometimes, because my short game is tour standard, but I can't hole a two foot putt, but sometimes I get the chip within a foot so I one putt on occasion

 

My ball striking is almost professional level, not PGA Tour or anything like that, but I average around 10 greens, so that would work on a minitour or something. I only hit the ball around 260 with driver, but it's always in the fairway and I can consistently reach greens even from the back tees, which at my course play around 6,900 yards. And my fairways are really slow, so I don't get much rollout, in fact it just stops where it's at, and I constantly have a plugged lie. It's not my spinrate, but just the fact that the fairways play so slow that the ball goes nowhere. So my ball striking has never been the problem, nor my short game or course management. And for most people who strike the ball well, their problem isn't anything more than either short game, course management, or putting. When I'm giving advice, it's mostly to better players. I don't like to teach hackers.

 

This just goes to prove the point I made, that it's not always the golf swing that makes the difference. If I could take less than 30 putts a round on a consistent basis, I'd be minitour level, and I could easily win some events. But averaging 41 putts a round never helps, and I shoot in the low 80's while taking that amount of putts. If I took, say, 28 putts a round, that's automatically under par, and if I took less than that on occasion, I'd be winning some tourneys. But dream as I will, I probably won't ever make it because of the putting yips.

Sorry to hear that. That has to be frustrating.

[RBImGuy]

I am an ADD student...that is getting progressively worse than better.

 

Its so funny... watching and reading there is SO MUCH contradictory instruction out there its mind boggling. NOT SAYING that the instruction is WRONG..... Its just that the swing seems to have such a wild change and so one method works for one person and not the other.

 

SURE the Swing is a finger print.... but Generically speaking you swing a metal club to hit a white ball that doesnt move.... and you try to do it in the most consistent way possible.

 

 

Actually everyone teach the golf swing wrong out there.

And I mean everyone.

I have the evidence for it so it can be complicated due to everyone here and elsewhere basically dont understand what they are doing.

 

Had a guy improve his scoring with 37 shots in 2 rounds vs what he used to do when he played.

He has a pro level impact now.

I hardly taught him much but just key points what is needed and his movement become, great.

 

Not complicated, its easy once you know the secret

 

Good luck

[finleysg]

I am an ADD student...that is getting progressively worse than better.

 

Its so funny... watching and reading there is SO MUCH contradictory instruction out there its mind boggling. NOT SAYING that the instruction is WRONG..... Its just that the swing seems to have such a wild change and so one method works for one person and not the other.

 

SURE the Swing is a finger print.... but Generically speaking you swing a metal club to hit a white ball that doesnt move.... and you try to do it in the most consistent way possible.

 

 

Actually everyone teach the golf swing wrong out there.

And I mean everyone.

I have the evidence for it so it can be complicated due to everyone here and elsewhere basically dont understand what they are doing.

 

Had a guy improve his scoring with 37 shots in 2 rounds vs what he used to do when he played.

He has a pro level impact now.

I hardly taught him much but just key points what is needed and his movement become, great.

 

Not complicated, its easy once you know the secret

 

Good luck

 

I've been playing for almost 50 years, and I still don't know what I'm doing. You need to bring your mystical wisdom to Minneapolis!

[Exactice808]

People think you're supposed to swing or swat at the ball when you're not.

 

Keep the arms passive and just turn to the ball and let go.

 

It's really that simple of a concept but it doesn't feel natural.

 

Your arms my feel passive to you but you wouldn't hit it very far if they actually were.

You'd be surprised.

 

The angles you create by allowing the arms to be passive allow you to hit far.

 

When I first started letting the arms be passive, I thought I would never be able to generate power until I started getting results. Release has a lot to do with power I believe, much more so than arm speed.

 

In my "no I am not a golf instructor" opinion, getting the arms and/or hands involved creates a swing that is timing based. If your timing is good, you will play well, if it's just a bit off...well, not so much.

 

 

Im going to whole agree "at this time" reason be is 1 year ago when my Golf Swing was @ a peak, and I was scoring my best, I was NOT so techincal. Once I reached a point were I THOUGHT I needed to optimize is where I hit the wall, In addition to decreased practice time

 

That being said, Personally again at this point of my game. the MORE detail I add the worse I get, So letting my body do the work but just conscious of VERY basic things like tempo/timing, NOT to rush etc.

 

 

other than that my body is pretty smart so it knows what to do! ODDLY enough, So once I take out hand hands or artificial adjustments, The swing works and works pretty darn well

 

Again, 37 is a Hella of an 9 for me.....