Why is the Golf Swing so complicated?

[oikos1]

The OPs question is why is the golf swing so complicated and every subsequent post is 2 paragraphs long or more.

 

Swinging a golf club is simple, instinctive and violent.

 

Swinging a golf club with success in striking a golf ball...that is complicated or is it??

 

I dont care what you do in your golf swing, if you can make good impact with a consistently square face...youre done. No more thoughts.

 

A big limitation on success is biomechanical limitations. After that it is mental limitations. The machine has to work before it can perform.

 

Ive had a lot of well struck balls end up in the water or in bunkers, and average struck shots end up on the green somewhere.

 

^^^Perfect. So many golfers have no idea their machine will never work like they think it should, or even worse are led to believe their machine will perform if only they would play tricks with their mind.

[virtuoso]

The golf swing isn’t complicated at all........unless you want to be really good. This is the actual question people are asking: Why can’t I be a great ball striker?

 

If you don’t mind sucking, the golf swing is the most simple thing in the world.

[cagecitizen]

I am, like you, an avid golfer. Golf instruction can get quite complicated, e.g., elbow at this angle, hands are here, begin the transition doing "x", etc. Imagine trying to learn to eat soup this way: dip spoon in bowl at a 45º angle, break wrist to get spoon at 90º to get soup in spoon, slowly lift spoon to mouth as you bend torso to spoon while keeping the elbow pointed...you get the idea...we'd all starve. lol

 

There are a wide variety of swing methodologies out there today. I think the key is finding the methodology that works best for you...not an easy task I will grant you. However, I don't think the swing should be as complicated as a lot of instruction makes it out to be. At one point, for example, I had so many swing thoughts it was almost impossible to hit a decent shot. Very frustrating.

 

During the 2017 season my HI dropped 5 points and I ended up shooting more rounds in the 70s than not, where as in previous seasons 5 rounds in the 70s during the entire season was a major accomplishment (I even broke par for the first time). What helped immeasurably was to stop playing golf swing and start playing golf. I trusted my swing enough where my focus throughout the entire swing was the target, not where my hips were, what my accumulators were doing, where my elbow was pointing, or how I began my transition.

 

It is quite liberating to just swing the club instead of THINKING about how to swing the club.

 

Another contributing factor was I played the same equipment the entire season. lol A first for me.

 

I have been where you are. It's incredibly frustrating because you put in all this time and effort and don't get the results you should be getting with all that time and effort. When I was at that point I started back to square one and proceeded very slowly. For example, I would chip, and chip, and chip until I was satisfied with how I was hitting those chips. I then moved up to pitching, doing the same thing, where it almost became automatic. I then went to half/three-quarter swings, and finally to the full swing.

 

Am I where I would like to be? No. This is golf...it's a journey, not a destination and always will be. Am I pleased with my progress? Yes.

 

A few other things I learned along the way:

 

1. To play within myself. At my age I am not going to be hitting the ball 300 yards, so I play tees commensurate with how far I do hit the ball.

 

2. A poor shot isn't a failure, it's a result. I learned to stop beating myself up over poor shots, or poor rounds. As a result the number of poor rounds especially began to decrease.

 

3. Short game. As a recreational golfer I don't hit a lot of greens, so a good short game is essential for me. I practice it incessantly. And the great thing about developing a good short game is you don't need to be young, or athletic.

 

4. I became more cognizant of my surroundings. Instead of getting caught up in golf shots (good or bad), missing a putt, or what have you, as I perambulated down the fairway I would look around at where I was, and began to appreciate the flora and fauna much more, the sun on my face, the breeze in my hair, and the soft ground under my feet, and especially those sounds of silence Mother Nature provided me.

 

Best of luck on your journey. And, please remember it IS a journey, and like any journey some parts of the trip are better than others.

 

Re-read this post over and over again. Your score will drop and your enjoyment of the game will increase. That's a fact.

[Londoner]

The search for the perfect textbook golf swing has killed many amateur golfers.

 

The problem is that we amateurs feel that we have to have that textbook swing to be successful. If that were true, all the pros would be swinging exactly the same.

 

The analogy said earlier about trying to teach someone to eat soup the way we teach golf instruction is totally spot on!! We try to learn all these details and then make a swing instead of teaching big picture and working down into details, if/when needed to correct a specific issue.

 

oh, and I don't buy that idea that we can't all be scratch. You can always improve. This isn't bowling! There is no perfect game in golf... you can always get better.

 

Really? You think EVERYBODY has the ability to play off scratch? Excluding disabilities obviously.

 

Yes. why not? If you are a healthy able body person playing the appropriate length course, I don't see why not.

 

I've seen some really ugly golf swings and games that can play to low handicaps. They are decent ball strikers, play within themselves, and avoid stupid errors and big numbers.

I just think there are some people who just haven't got sufficient hand eye coordination to get down to scratch.

[tdk8180]

The search for the perfect textbook golf swing has killed many amateur golfers.

 

The problem is that we amateurs feel that we have to have that textbook swing to be successful. If that were true, all the pros would be swinging exactly the same.

 

The analogy said earlier about trying to teach someone to eat soup the way we teach golf instruction is totally spot on!! We try to learn all these details and then make a swing instead of teaching big picture and working down into details, if/when needed to correct a specific issue.

 

oh, and I don't buy that idea that we can't all be scratch. You can always improve. This isn't bowling! There is no perfect game in golf... you can always get better.

 

Really? You think EVERYBODY has the ability to play off scratch? Excluding disabilities obviously.

 

Yes. why not? If you are a healthy able body person playing the appropriate length course, I don't see why not.

 

I've seen some really ugly golf swings and games that can play to low handicaps. They are decent ball strikers, play within themselves, and avoid stupid errors and big numbers.

I just think there are some people who just haven't got sufficient hand eye coordination to get down to scratch.

 

YES!

 

This is very true

 

We have tons of examples to look at as well

 

Steph Curry - smooth on the court, smooth sound swing on the course

 

Charles Barkley - not smooth on the court, power player, could at least handle the ball and make power moves....the man can't swing a golf club!

 

Both were/are PRO NBA PLAYERS!

 

MOST NHL hockey players can play golf and break 80

 

Tom Brady - excellent golfer, excellent QB

 

President 44 - smooth talker, sort of smooth B-Ball player, terrible golfer. You can see in his on court motor skills...why the golf swing would suffer

 

President 45 - effective talker, has to be horrid at B-Ball, was a good Baseball player though (Prolly had a weird swing and movements) good golfer (great in his mind), not a great swing but very effective and has won many...many club championships!

 

Matthew McConaughey - I watched this chop almost get a hole in one at a celebrity tourney. Hes an athlete sort of...effective swing

 

Marky Mark Whalberg - Nice wide stance, good range of motion, decent positions in the swing....puts two OB at a celeb event

 

Justin Timberlake - he can dance, he can act, he can sing...can he play golf? YES! He's not bad.

[Nard_S]

If you start young are taught properly, getting to scratch is doable. Start as an adult and veer in rabbit holes, near impossible. Getting to high singles is realistic for many, getting below 5 is major under taking for the latter. I've been at that wall for 5 years, spent last 2 re-tooling swing to make an assault on it. D-Day is coming, might drown on the beach yet. :)

[sheldonjhacker]

OP...the key is to keep it to less than 5 swing thoughts. Don't be this guy...

[jecarnl]

The golf swing is simple but by its human nature and the human mind that makes it complicated.

[CoiledUP]

Great posts by Jim.

 

The golf swing does not rely on the primary motion skills for humans, it has to be learnt, so it is complicated.

 

Yet clubs are designed by humans, so what are the primary motion skills and are they innate, acquired, or a little of both.

[finleysg]

200+ bones, 600+ muscles, a crooked stick, a little ball, and brain too large. It's a wonder we can play this game at all. Growing up, I played baseball, football, basketball and golf. Golf is easily the hardest, with a "natural" golf swing the hardest to learn. Hitting a baseball comes in a distant second.

 

So while it's appealing to think of the golf swing as simple, imo it is only simple by virtue of the fact that I've played for 45+ years and have hits tens of thousands of shots. If I had to try to help a beginner, I don't know where I'd start. Maybe with just the left hand on the club -- feel a swing. After that, you're on your own!

[Soloman1]

Albert Einstein was asked if he played golf.

 

“No, no,” Einstein said. “Tried it once. Too complicated. I quit.”

[AmAgain]

A good golf swing is complicated for an endless number of reasons.

 

Most golfers learn in 1 of 3 categories:

Visual learner

Verbal learner

Physical learner

 

Do you know which you are? If you do you need to utilize the appropriate instruction.

 

I could have the #1 teacher in the world, whoever you feel that is, send me a video showing and explaining swing changes. The only thing it would be good for is to show friends. If he or she grabbed the club and put it where it needed to be I’d be good.

 

If you’re a feel player stay away from mechanical thoughts and vis versa.

 

The majority golfers don’t actually work on the changes, they may think they are. Better players will typically overdue the changes.

 

Know your limitations, physical or otherwise. Remember not everyone can dunk a basketball or hit a curveball. This doesn’t mean you can’t improve your skill set though.

 

OP stated they can’t hit a 60yd wedge shot. I would suggest doing your best to not have 60yds. Find a layup yardage you’re comfortable with if you can’t reach the green. Mine is 90yds, I can spin it, one hop and stop or have it land like a sack of potatoes.

 

When playing forget it all. GRIP-AIM-SETUP-SWING.

[Etzwane]

Great posts by Jim.

 

The golf swing does not rely on the primary motion skills for humans, it has to be learnt, so it is complicated.

 

Yet clubs are designed by humans, so what are the primary motion skills and are they innate, acquired, or a little of both.

 

Primary motion skills are what evolution gave human: running, jumping, throwing things, precision mouvements of arms and hands independently of the trunk. Not very useful for golf, even detrimental for the last.... Not my opinion, the diagnostic of researchers in sport biomechanics.

[CoiledUP]

Great posts by Jim.

 

The golf swing does not rely on the primary motion skills for humans, it has to be learnt, so it is complicated.

 

Yet clubs are designed by humans, so what are the primary motion skills and are they innate, acquired, or a little of both.

 

Primary motion skills are what evolution gave human: running, jumping, throwing things, precision mouvements of arms and hands independently of the trunk. Not very useful for golf, even detrimental for the last.... Not my opinion, the diagnostic of researchers in sport biomechanics.

 

Yet Googling about a throwing effort or sensation within a motion sequence, or simply a throw within a swing, will produce over 10 million hits, so excuse my confusion.

[aliikane]

It just is complicated. So many different things can go wrong and endless ways to fix it. I would not say golf instruction is contradictory, it is just different philosophies and different methods. There is no one size fits all with instruction. So, one method, fix or swing thought may help one person, but may not help someone else. There are instructors I really like and some I don't care for. However it doesn't mean that the ones I don't care for are not good, I just don't relate with or think their methods work for me. The key is finding the method and instructor that works for you which is the hard part.

[CoiledUP]

The complexity may occupy the interval between what needs to happen not being compromised by what can happen by knowing what will happen.

[dap]

Hitting a small ball lying on the ground with a little stick is simply not easy to begin with. You need some talent.

 

You don't need a perfect swing or a perfect looking swing that hits the ball perfectly straight. You need a repeatable swing that strikes the ball solidly with a consistent ball flight. If you need to look like Craig Parry and hit an ungainly fade to do that, so be it. Too many amatuers are looking for their idea of a perfect swing technically and visually and then it becomes extremely hard.

[Etzwane]

Great posts by Jim.

 

The golf swing does not rely on the primary motion skills for humans, it has to be learnt, so it is complicated.

 

Yet clubs are designed by humans, so what are the primary motion skills and are they innate, acquired, or a little of both.

 

Primary motion skills are what evolution gave human: running, jumping, throwing things, precision mouvements of arms and hands independently of the trunk. Not very useful for golf, even detrimental for the last.... Not my opinion, the diagnostic of researchers in sport biomechanics.

 

Yet Googling about a throwing effort or sensation within a motion sequence, or simply a throw within a swing, will produce over 10 million hits, so excuse my confusion.

Exactly, people try to refer to primary motions as analogies but since the swing does not use them, it is of limited usefulness.

[TTGolf77]

Great posts by Jim.

 

The golf swing does not rely on the primary motion skills for humans, it has to be learnt, so it is complicated.

 

Yet clubs are designed by humans, so what are the primary motion skills and are they innate, acquired, or a little of both.

 

Primary motion skills are what evolution gave human: running, jumping, throwing things, precision mouvements of arms and hands independently of the trunk. Not very useful for golf, even detrimental for the last.... Not my opinion, the diagnostic of researchers in sport biomechanics.

 

Yet Googling about a throwing effort or sensation within a motion sequence, or simply a throw within a swing, will produce over 10 million hits, so excuse my confusion.

Exactly, people try to refer to primary motions as analogies but since the swing does not use them, it is of limited usefulness.

 

All those things are useful in the golf swing except running.

[RobertBaron]

I think it’s so complicated because hitting an object on the ground is a vertical action when our anatomy is more geared to hitting something on a more horizontal plane like tennis or baseball. I’d imagine if golf were a horizontal game where you hit the ball off a waist high tee, the swing wouldn’t be nearly as difficult or complicated.

 

A golf swing is anatomically an “unnatural” act when it comes to hitting a ball with a stick.

 

Having said that, more advanced levels of sports like tennis and baseball can get pretty complicated too. There’s tons of pitching and hitting gurus for advanced baseball players all working toward improving someone’s motion like golfers do

 

ETA: also hitting down on something to make it go up is kinda weird too and just adds another level of complication to the swing.

[Terry Gold]

THE Golf Swing? You're doomed already.

 

There's no 'Golf Swing'. There is Golf.

[KrazyTrain18]

In my opinion the golf swing is actually rather simple, you don't need to be perfect in order to achieve success and there are many ways of getting there. What's difficult is the repeatability and muscle memory, its human nature to look in all directions rather then ingrain a few things at a time before moving on.

[CoiledUP]

Great posts by Jim.

 

The golf swing does not rely on the primary motion skills for humans, it has to be learnt, so it is complicated.

 

Yet clubs are designed by humans, so what are the primary motion skills and are they innate, acquired, or a little of both.

 

Primary motion skills are what evolution gave human: running, jumping, throwing things, precision mouvements of arms and hands independently of the trunk. Not very useful for golf, even detrimental for the last.... Not my opinion, the diagnostic of researchers in sport biomechanics.

 

Yet Googling about a throwing effort or sensation within a motion sequence, or simply a throw within a swing, will produce over 10 million hits, so excuse my confusion.

Exactly, people try to refer to primary motions as analogies but since the swing does not use them, it is of limited usefulness.

 

Primary motion analogies, for now specifically limited to running, seems to have usefulness to actual players however and which could evade measurement by researchers in biomechanics. The question is even though we don't actually physically run as classically defined, can we run mentally, or can we use what we've learned in acquiring primary motions to support, or assist in acquiring, other biomechanical functions, like a golf motion. The answer seems to be clearly yes from this player's perspective:

 

[davep043]

Albert Einstein was asked if he played golf.

 

“No, no,” Einstein said. “Tried it once. Too complicated. I quit.”

I've actually met the man to whom Einstein said those words, John Derr.

[Halebopp]

While a golf swing is a complicated thing, in my mind, if it feels overly complicated, I think it's time to see a pro.

 

My personal experience is that you go to a pro, who returns you to some very simple basics when it comes to feelings in your body and swing thoughts. Those motions might feel weird during the lesson but they're very simple and often about stopping you from doing all sorts of extra movements. Then you work on them on your own until the new motions feel normal to you.

 

Over time you start slipping away from what you were doing well, start adding bits and pieces to your swing as you try to correct it. Those bits can be something you come up with on your own, read from a golf magazine or watch on Youtube until you have a hundred swing thoughts in your head. Once you're in it deep enough, you realize only a pro can sort it out and s/he brings you back to the basics and a very simple-feeling, effective swing. It might not be perfect but it is what you can do and what works for you.

 

Everyone knows that when you're swinging well, the swing is the easiest, most simple and natural thing to do. One correct motion leads to another correct motion and so forth. Unfortunately we just lose it time and time again, unless we have the chance to take lessons on a frequent basis, or you're really good at the game.

 

Edit. I should probably add that when you improve, you can add new things to make the swing even better. But even then, you're just thinking about the one or two changes, not the rest of your swing and thus, the feel should stay simple (even if awkward at first).

[baudi]

Einstein was quoted; one quote extra fits in: Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.

(Source and origin to be discussed. For further study : https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/05/13/einstein-simple/ )

 

So why do people always refer to a golfswing as 'hitting a ball with a stick'

It is more like 'clipping the elastic ball with a long lofted hammer..

 

Any teacher (professional or not) who can show and explain angular momentum and any player who is able to make A.M. feel as a motion has conquered half the battle.

From this point it is eternal refinement only. Getting close to perfection will take long.

 

Playing golf has a different meaning and requires a different attitude.

[mikpga]

Perhaps a systematic approach would be beneficial!

[Exactice808]

You are all amazing! Thanks for all your input... I wish you all a happy 2018!!

 

 

With that... I guess this is a learning curve/plateau I am hitting.

 

When you are a higher handicap, you are learning the basics.

 

when you reach a mid cap...you start to learn about equipment and setup.

 

mid cap well fitted- once you got equipment setup..... you trying to really tweak your swing.

 

mid to low cap- if you got the talent to play....your scores drop and now you realize there is a lot MORE to learn both minute physical and mental.

 

low cap - precise ball flight numbers and impact positions etc.

 

 

Anyways... My point is the other day I realized something......that was really driving me bonkers.... I DIDNT even have a BASIC swing anymore. what do I mean, after learning to hit the ball.... and play decent golf...trying to do "this" and "that" and "P4" and "P6" starts to take away from your natural basic swing..... its silly...how I have deviated so far from something so BASIC.

 

 

Body is amazing from balance to reflexes etc.... the SWING can BE easy as some of you stated.... the natural body mechanics..... its the Human mind (like myself) that complicates it.

 

 

Anyways. I spent the whole 3 day weekend.... swinging my club in the house, just getting back to the basics of swings.... no cup or bowed wrist, no holding lag, no flattening out the swing... no delayed release blah blah, just find my impact position and do what ever it takes to get the body and club in sync.

 

 

playing tomorrow hopefully and will report back! I need to make this game easier.......

[Sean2]

The golf swing is simple but by its human nature and the human mind that makes it complicated.

 

Well, I am simple too... lol

 

Good luck tomorrow...and have fun. :-)

[jdl]

You are all amazing! Thanks for all your input... I wish you all a happy 2018!!

 

 

With that... I guess this is a learning curve/plateau I am hitting.

 

When you are a higher handicap, you are learning the basics.

 

when you reach a mid cap...you start to learn about equipment and setup.

 

mid cap well fitted- once you got equipment setup..... you trying to really tweak your swing.

 

mid to low cap- if you got the talent to play....your scores drop and now you realize there is a lot MORE to learn both minute physical and mental.

 

low cap - precise ball flight numbers and impact positions etc.

 

 

IMO this fits here: