Rolling back the ball

[radiman]

Totally off topic. (Sort of )

 

Just had long talk with a mentor of mine . Couple stories I can’t share details on . But a couple take aways. The usga and the pga of america are both in need of a cleanout. The good old boy network is alive and well in both. I’m goin to research this. But apparently they ( pga of America ) recently had a Brain fart and tried to get All master professionals to give up that title and re test for some new title that’s “ less intimidating “ and I’m guessing more Pc. Several master pros bucked it and threatened to sue. So it was scrapped. For now.

And the usga.

 

What was the reasoning for killing the Pub Links ? You have a 75 year old championship . Why on earth would you kill it ? I’m slowly changing camps on the ball. And always was against the groove rule. Mainly because it made a lot of good irons illegal.

 

There. Rant over.

 

 

[Ashley Schaeffer]

https://www.geoffsha..._medium=twitter

 

I don't know if I speak for more than myself but could you summarize what is in the audio. I have a strong dislike for that guy and I really don't want to sit and listen through it all when I can read a summary in a couple seconds.

 

I made it about 20 minutes. Don't know who these guys are, but they want to see 4-irons into par fours because Arnie did it, I guess. 1930-1990s was OK, but now it's not balanced, apparently. Guys used to hit more club into greens. They want to go back to those days, and we have to preserve the golf courses because Hale Irwin hit a one iron into a green once, and Ogilvy hit a 9-iron into the same green. Also, nobody cheers for drives at Augusta. That's about what I got from the first 20 minutes.

[clevited]

no, i will not give you the cliffs notes only to be told i'm an idiot and trying to ruin golf.

 

take the time to educate yourself. read up on the issue. listen to people who have dealt with the issue and form your own opinion. i'm not telling you what to believe, but at least make the effort.

 

Omg, I tried to listen to it and I threw up a little. I'm sorry but the snippet I heard was the worst crap ever whined by anyone ever.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Also, some Australian guy just mentioned that if someone hits it flush with a great swing, it doesn't really matter if it goes 280 or 320. I don't think he realized how that doesn't help his argument that something should be changed.

 

EDIT: he just said naugny-naugny-naughn talking about Van De Velde, so my day is complete!

[clevited]

Also, some Australian guy just mentioned that if someone hits it flush with a great swing, it doesn't really matter if it goes 280 or 320. I don't think he realized how that doesn't help his argument that something should be changed.

 

EDIT: he just said naugny-naugny-naughn talking about Van De Velde, so my day is complete!

 

Thank you for your little summaries so far, I quite literally couldn't stand listening to it.

[tnord]

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Also, some Australian guy just mentioned that if someone hits it flush with a great swing, it doesn't really matter if it goes 280 or 320. I don't think he realized how that doesn't help his argument that something should be changed.

 

EDIT: he just said naugny-naugny-naughn talking about Van De Velde, so my day is complete!

 

Thank you for your little summaries so far, I quite literally couldn't stand listening to it.

 

No prob. Australian guy just talked about how DJ made a 7 or picked up on some hole he just talked about being a problem because people go for it nowadays. American sounding guy just talked for about 5 minutes, but didn't really say anything. Now, they are talking about the small ball and how the World has dealt with the issue of losing distance before. Now, Australian guy is blaming American marketing. Now, he is saying someone who talked about slow play in 1910 should be the guy to whom we listen. Now, he's saying that Jimmie Walker has never read The Spirit of St. Andrews.

[tnord]

Also, some Australian guy just mentioned that if someone hits it flush with a great swing, it doesn't really matter if it goes 280 or 320. I don't think he realized how that doesn't help his argument that something should be changed.

 

EDIT: he just said naugny-naugny-naughn talking about Van De Velde, so my day is complete!

 

Thank you for your little summaries so far, I quite literally couldn't stand listening to it.

 

No prob. Australian guy just talked about how DJ made a 7 or picked up on some hole he just talked about being a problem because people go for it nowadays. American sounding guy just talked for about 5 minutes, but didn't really say anything. Now, they are talking about the small ball and how the World has dealt with the issue of losing distance before. Now, Australian guy is blaming American marketing. Now, he is saying someone who talked about slow play in 1910 should be the guy to whom we listen. Now, he's saying that Jimmie Walker has never read The Spirit of St. Andrews.

 

"some guy who talked about slow play in 1910" is the same person who wrote The Spirit of St Andrews.

 

that would be Alister MacKenzie. are you going to make fun of him too?

 

please....continue to shine a light on your ignorance. it's good for all the casual observers of this train wreck.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

Which one is Mike Clayton? Is he the Australian guy, or the American sounding guy? I am still listening.

[tnord]

Australian.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Also, some Australian guy just mentioned that if someone hits it flush with a great swing, it doesn't really matter if it goes 280 or 320. I don't think he realized how that doesn't help his argument that something should be changed.

 

EDIT: he just said naugny-naugny-naughn talking about Van De Velde, so my day is complete!

 

Thank you for your little summaries so far, I quite literally couldn't stand listening to it.

 

No prob. Australian guy just talked about how DJ made a 7 or picked up on some hole he just talked about being a problem because people go for it nowadays. American sounding guy just talked for about 5 minutes, but didn't really say anything. Now, they are talking about the small ball and how the World has dealt with the issue of losing distance before. Now, Australian guy is blaming American marketing. Now, he is saying someone who talked about slow play in 1910 should be the guy to whom we listen. Now, he's saying that Jimmie Walker has never read The Spirit of St. Andrews.

 

"some guy who talked about slow play in 1910" is the same person who wrote The Spirit of St Andrews.

 

that would be Alister MacKenzie. are you going to make fun of him too?

 

please....continue to shine a light on your ignorance. it's good for all the casual observers of this train wreck.

 

 

I don't think it would be polite to make fun of a guy who designed all those courses. That's why I always choose not to hit 340-yard drives on his courses.

[radiman]

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

I don't need to have someone tell me what is right and wrong in this matter. I agree with the PGA Tour, the PGA of America, and golfers like James Hahn (who actually would be impacted by this). Everyone is entitled to their opinions. We don't need to cite sources in how we came to our opinions.

[clevited]

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

I am a recreational golfer, I am therefore an authority and ambassidor for both the short hitting and the long hitting amateur. You know, the ones that buy the balls and pay to see the tournaments live, and watch them on tv getting them ad revenue. The golfers that matter.

[tnord]

do you have a serious response, or are you just trying to deflect from the fact that you attempted to discredit the views of MacKenzie?

[Ashley Schaeffer]

The American sounding guy just said that the golf pros who "b****" about the rules/limits currently in place are "moronic".

[tnord]

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

I am a recreational golfer, I am therefore an authority and ambassidor for both the short hitting and the long hitting amateur. You know, the ones that buy the balls and pay to see the tournaments live, and watch them on tv getting them ad revenue. The golfers that matter.

 

i drive a car, therefor i am an expert in mechanical engineering, physics, and materials science.

[clevited]

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

I am a recreational golfer, I am therefore an authority and ambassidor for both the short hitting and the long hitting amateur. You know, the ones that buy the balls and pay to see the tournaments live, and watch them on tv getting them ad revenue. The golfers that matter.

 

i drive a car, therefor i am an expert in mechanical engineering, physics, and materials science.

 

This my friend is NOT that complicated. Take it from me.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

do you have a serious response, or are you just trying to deflect from the fact that you attempted to discredit the views of MacKenzie?

 

Nope. I fully stand behind my opinion that the author of the Spirit of St. Andrews had a very shortsighted view of the future of the game in terms of pace of play if he thought 18 holes shouldn't take more than two hours on a Sunday afternoon. Maybe that's the way it was in his day, but it's just not practicable in the modern age. Wait a minute . . . oh . . .

[tnord]

"trust me, i'm a stable genius."

[radiman]

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

I am a recreational golfer, I am therefore an authority and ambassidor for both the short hitting and the long hitting amateur. You know, the ones that buy the balls and pay to see the tournaments live, and watch them on tv getting them ad revenue. The golfers that matter.

 

i drive a car, therefor i am an expert in mechanical engineering, physics, and materials science.

 

Lol, do our opinions not count unless we are students on golf course architecture? We all play the same game, and watch the same tournaments on TV. We have just as much of a stake in this as any "expert" on the subject.

[tnord]

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

I am a recreational golfer, I am therefore an authority and ambassidor for both the short hitting and the long hitting amateur. You know, the ones that buy the balls and pay to see the tournaments live, and watch them on tv getting them ad revenue. The golfers that matter.

 

i drive a car, therefor i am an expert in mechanical engineering, physics, and materials science.

 

Lol, do our opinions not count unless we are students on golf course architecture? We all play the same game, and watch the same tournaments on TV. We have just as much of a stake in this as any "expert" on the subject.

 

they absolutely count 100%, but it does not make you an expert. just like i am not an expert, and my opinion matters less than the actual experts. but it's a subject i'm interested in, so i tend to read the timeless books on design from the authorities of the past, and listen to the most respected architects currently alive as well (Bill Coore, Tom Doak, etc).

[Ashley Schaeffer]

do you have a serious response, or are you just trying to deflect from the fact that you attempted to discredit the views of MacKenzie?

 

Nope. I fully stand behind my opinion that the author of the Spirit of St. Andrews had a very shortsighted view of the future of the game in terms of pace of play if he thought 18 holes shouldn't take more than two hours on a Sunday afternoon. Maybe that's the way it was in his day, but it's just not practicable in the modern age. Wait a minute . . . oh . . .

 

please, tell me more about how MacKenzie couldn't see the future of the game and how his courses are no longer relevant for modern golf.

 

I can't do that, because I never said that, and I don't believe that.

I do, however, tolerate a round of golf that takes over 2 hours, despite what I would view as ideal.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

American sounding guy now says a Masters Ball would be good and that a 5% rollback for the long hitters would make the Masters better because the landing areas would be better. Clayton agrees because he remembers Crenshaw hitting a 3-wood into #15 at AGNC.

[tnord]

http://www.friedegg.co/tom-doak-podcast/

[clevited]

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

I am a recreational golfer, I am therefore an authority and ambassidor for both the short hitting and the long hitting amateur. You know, the ones that buy the balls and pay to see the tournaments live, and watch them on tv getting them ad revenue. The golfers that matter.

 

i drive a car, therefor i am an expert in mechanical engineering, physics, and materials science.

 

Lol, do our opinions not count unless we are students on golf course architecture? We all play the same game, and watch the same tournaments on TV. We have just as much of a stake in this as any "expert" on the subject.

 

they absolutely count 100%, but it does not make you an expert. just like i am not an expert, and my opinion matters less than the actual experts. but it's a subject i'm interested in, so i tend to read the timeless books on design from the authorities of the past, and listen to the most respected architects currently alive as well (Bill Coore, Tom Doak, etc).

 

You do understand that just because a person is a course architect, their opinions don't automatically matter more than mine or anyone elses regarding the ball right? Those of us that take golf seriously could be considered experts on the subject both as a player and a fan. Many on here are well above intelligent and informed regarding ball spin, COR,cover material, layers and what they do, what a 7 iron spin should ideally be, what the role of grooves are and why its important to keep crap out of them etc etc etc etc. Experts we are and ultimately the ones paying and keeping golf around.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

American sounding guy now says that we don't need data to see the problem. He's disappointed and confused by the problem. He's now talking about people buying homes next to airports and complaining about the noise. He's advocating a three-ball system. A rollback ball, a current ball, and one for beginners and old people who don't care about the rules. He says it's simple. "The handicap system could be, uh, uh, made to deal with it."

 

Nobody has floated the idea that nothing needs to be changed, and all the classic layouts could still be played.

[clevited]

I still feel strongly that the underlying reason for the desire to nerf the ball is a deeper psychological reason. Kinda like the one where men of smaller stature feel compelled to work out and bulk up all the time.

 

I am not trying to insult btw, its a legit thing and I do think it plays a role in this.

[radiman]

My issue is Geoff Shackelord being touted as an authority on the matter. He talks down to any and everybody that disagrees with him. I'm all up for a constructive debate. He is only interested in his side of the story. His opinion matters, but I'd say it matters less than the tour pros he's bashing that are speaking out against a change that effects them directly.

 

I say that realizing this thread has steered in that direction at times.

[Valtiel]

I still feel strongly that the underlying reason for the desire to nerf the ball is a deeper psychological reason. Kinda like the one where men of smaller stature feel compelled to work out and bulk up all the time.

 

I am not trying to insult btw, its a legit thing and I do think it plays a role in this.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you were right. The business related reasons must certainly play a factor but no discussion goes 20+ pages every single time its brought up without some underlying psychological reason at work.

[clevited]

My issue is Geoff Shackelord being touted as an authority on the matter. He talks down to any and everybody that disagrees with him. I'm all up for a constructive debate. He is only interested in his side of the story. His opinion matters, but I'd say it matters less than the tour pros he's bashing that are speaking out against a change that effects them directly.

 

I say that realizing this thread has steered in that direction at times.

 

Yeah, I dispise that guy. He represents everything that kept me from liking golf until I was a teenager. He is Judge from CaddyShack. Shooter Mcgavin on Happy Gilmore lol.