Armlock Build: Head weight vs grip weight?

[cmagnusson]

So I'm turning my back-up OG White Hot #1 into an armlock to test out the style before buying one, as none of the shops in my area have carried a single LH armlock putter. Other than the grip (yet to be ordered) I've got all the supplies I need and have had the head bent to the appropriate loft and lie (decided on 7/72).

 

Armlock putters generally have headweights in the 400g range to account for the excess length and different grip. My putter has a headweight of 345g. A 10 g tip weight means I need 45 inches of 1/2" HD lead tape, which is about 5.5 layers on the sole, or putting some on the flanges/hosel/cavity/etc. It's a lot of lead tape, is what I'm saying.

 

I've also seen some super heavy armlock grips being billed as Counterbalance grips, however. The WINN 15" pistol grip I'm thinking of using is only 125g, compared to an Armlock RX 17" Counterbalance grip which comes in at 235g. I read somewhere on WRX (can't find it anymore) that these grips are used in scenarios when you can't add more head weight on these types on conversions, but this seems like the opposite of what I know about swingweight.

 

I'm hopelessly lost, so I turn myself over to the WRX hivemind and ask for your help. What grip weight should I use, and how will that affect my target head weight?

[Stuart_G]

When it comes to putters, forget swing weight. It is important to get a good fit for both head weight and grip weight and how the two balance against each other but the normal SW concepts just don't apply. Everyone is different in what they need - so only your own testing will answer the question of what is a good fit for you - but generally, with putters the grip weight needs to go up or down with the head weight. That's why there are references to using a lighter grip with a lighter head weight. I'd start with the light grip and get a bunch of lead tape and maybe a selection of tour lock pro inserts and just go play around with various values (for both head weight and grip side weight) once you have the club built.

 

If you scroll down to the 9th post for this thread - Howard describes a way to test and help get the right balance between the two for putters.

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/909991/diy-driver-tune-up-diy-fitting/p1

[SAM_PGA]

As a long time AL user I'll give you my 2 cents...

 

I've used converted AL putters, the Bettinardi Kuchar 1, and have 2 custom Tour Camerons including Kuchar's prototype that Scotty Cameron designed before Matt switched to Bettinardi. My favorite???... the converted AL putter because it DOESN'T HAVE the 400 gram head nor does it have the heavier "ski pole" shaft. The Betti and SC's are great, I just don't like the feel of the heavy shafts and head. My SC Kuchar Proto was made for me with 35 gram weights and was an anvil, I now use it with 10 grams weights. No idea what the head weight is and I don't care what the head weight is... it's a feel thing to me and I know what I like and gives me the best consistency. Head weight IMO is dependent upon the type of shaft in the putter; stock shaft extended to playing length does not require heavy head weight. Ski pole shafts will require the heavier head weight to maintain feel in the putter.

 

MORAL OF THE STORY... arm lock use will require tinkering and patience BUT once you find what you like it will be hard to use anything else!

 

FWIW I use a SuperStroke 17" Tour grip on all of the putters. I has the same profile as the CLAW grip but longer. You need at least 17" to properly brace the putter grip along your forearm.

[cmagnusson]

> @sampga1976 said:

> As a long time AL user I'll give you my 2 cents...

>

> I've used converted AL putters, the Bettinardi Kuchar 1, and have 2 custom Tour Camerons including Kuchar's prototype that Scotty Cameron designed before Matt switched to Bettinardi. My favorite???... the converted AL putter because it DOESN'T HAVE the 400 gram head nor does it have the heavier "ski pole" shaft. The Betti and SC's are great, I just don't like the feel of the heavy shafts and head. My SC Kuchar Proto was made for me with 35 gram weights and was an anvil, I now use it with 10 grams weights. No idea what the head weight is and I don't care what the head weight is... it's a feel thing to me and I know what I like and gives me the best consistency. Head weight IMO is dependent upon the type of shaft in the putter; stock shaft extended to playing length does not require heavy head weight. Ski pole shafts will require the heavier head weight to maintain feel in the putter.

>

> MORAL OF THE STORY... arm lock use will require tinkering and patience BUT once you find what you like it will be hard to use anything else!

>

> FWIW I use a SuperStroke 17" Tour grip on all of the putters. I has the same profile as the CLAW grip but longer. You need at least 17" to properly brace the putter grip along your forearm.

 

In the converted one, how did you get the full shaft length? Did you use an extension (and if so metal/wood/plastic), or did you use a lighter .370 iron shaft rather than a heavy putter shaft?

 

I now must wonder out loud if using a .370 hybrid shaft would be the way to go based on your comment, to ensure one feels the clubhead.

[SAM_PGA]

> @cmagnusson said:

> > @sampga1976 said:

> > As a long time AL user I'll give you my 2 cents...

> >

> > I've used converted AL putters, the Bettinardi Kuchar 1, and have 2 custom Tour Camerons including Kuchar's prototype that Scotty Cameron designed before Matt switched to Bettinardi. My favorite???... the converted AL putter because it DOESN'T HAVE the 400 gram head nor does it have the heavier "ski pole" shaft. The Betti and SC's are great, I just don't like the feel of the heavy shafts and head. My SC Kuchar Proto was made for me with 35 gram weights and was an anvil, I now use it with 10 grams weights. No idea what the head weight is and I don't care what the head weight is... it's a feel thing to me and I know what I like and gives me the best consistency. Head weight IMO is dependent upon the type of shaft in the putter; stock shaft extended to playing length does not require heavy head weight. Ski pole shafts will require the heavier head weight to maintain feel in the putter.

> >

> > MORAL OF THE STORY... arm lock use will require tinkering and patience BUT once you find what you like it will be hard to use anything else!

> >

> > FWIW I use a SuperStroke 17" Tour grip on all of the putters. I has the same profile as the CLAW grip but longer. You need at least 17" to properly brace the putter grip along your forearm.

>

> In the converted one, how did you get the full shaft length? Did you use an extension (and if so metal/wood/plastic), or did you use a lighter .370 iron shaft rather than a heavy putter shaft?

>

> I now must wonder out loud if using a .370 hybrid shaft would be the way to go based on your comment, to ensure one feels the clubhead.

 

I simply extended the playing length. You're only going 7 or 8" longer. I may have used an old graphite driver shaft that broke at the tip, dry fit, mark the extension at the end of steel shaft, and cut so the graphite is inserted about 6". It doesn't have to be perfect... just straight; and the grip will cover up the seam anyways.