Traditional Iron Lofts & Lengths

[kirkj01]

Old pro's v new pro's...???

Hello - I have been tryingto investigate what the difference is between the modern day spec and specs of a few years back...

Modern day clubs as follows...

5 Irons loft / 'std length'
Nike 29* / 37.75"
Callaway 27 / 38.00
Mizuno 27 / 37.75
Wilson 27 / 38.25
Hogan 29 / 37.75
Titleist 28 / 38.00
TM 28 / 37.75
Ping 27 / 37.75
MacG 27.5 / ?

Apparently Tiger Wood's (a reasonable example) prefers traditional lofts uses a 30 degree 37.5" 5 Iron - this seems to be approx 1/4 to 1/2" shorter than today's 'standards' listed above?? This seems to be shorter than what most pro's appear to be using? Apparently he also likes a D4 swingweight - which seems to be maybe a couple more than what it seems most others prefer for irons (generalising). This was pulled off the net and I am unsure how accurate the information is. I believe Tiger is also 6ft1". I am not sure how long his arms are but he does not look disproportionate.

Does anyone know what Jack N, Gary P, Arnold P and other previous greats used? Any idea what the prefered swing weight was - if they even bothered?

I may be a little naive in my thinking but I have always struck shorter irons better than longer ones. I grew up playing some Wilson 1200LT's which I am sure were a lot shorter than today standards.

So not wanting to compare myself to Tiger, but I am the same height (and about half as wide), and every time I have been to a club fitter I have always been told that I should be 1/2" over. So for instance I recently bought some X20 tours where the 5 iron was a full inch longer than Tigers. Or maybe if you look at it this way my 27 degree club was 38.5" and his 27 degree (his 4 iron) is 38.0". So maybe my irons are only 1/2 an inch longer than his. (helps explain why I can not hit my 2 or 3 iron!)

Does anyone know what length Tiger, or any of the older greats, use for their PW's and SW's? Are their 60's shorter than their 56's (if that is their set up)?

I guess this post is just a discussion open for comment - as I seem to have figured out that if I had just gone with standard length I would be using similar length clubs to TW (but needing to remember that I am a club higher). Do any of you out there find that as soon as you go 1/2" over you start losing control.

I am still interested in what was the norm in days gone by and whether it was really any different to what we use these days.

All comments welcome.

[Night train]

I have a small collection of pro line Macgregor and Wilson irons from the early to mid 60's.... TA's, MT's and Wilson Staffs.........5 iron length is 37" with a 30* loft.......throw in modern golf balls and it explains a lot of the distance gains.

[progolf4life]

I have a question that goes along with this post. You see many of the top pros switching to hybrids these days. Could this be because of the length of the 3 & 4 irons are too long and that this makes them a lot harder to hit?

 

Would shortening your irons be a good idea?

[rodto3rd]

So what 5 iron would you hit farther, one with 27* loft or one with 30* loft??

[bjackson]

27 degree. what club do you hit farther, a 13 degree strong 3 wood or a 21 degree 7 wood? simple logic buddy.

[rodto3rd]

I figured that, I just don't know how he could hit a 170-180 PW with those lofts. Granted he has a very powerful swing -- But if I swung out of my shoes, could never get a PW to fly that far!!

[brandocommando7]

I am 6'1" with sortof long arms but measure out to a standard (38" 5 iron) setup. I play my clubs 1/2" short at 37.5" 5 iron down to my pitching wedge but all my wedges are same length. My 5 iron is 28degrees of loft and 3 degrees upright at 63. I had to argue like hell with a club rep that I wanted my clubs 1/2" under. He said "why would you do that, you lose so much distance." I told him I was way more consistent and he just argued that all the pros play them at standard or longer. I said I dont care, I play best with them 1/2 under. I didn't get any clubs from him because he was a jackass. Irons are all about precision and what you are comfortable with is what you should hit. I didn't lose any distance by cutting 1/2" off, I just gained more accuracy and consistancy. Not sure about what the pros or tiger does but I really don't think length should be based on distance or what measurements are. A clubfitter should watch the swing and he can decide what seems to look right.

[titleistprov1man]

Just because a club is a weaker loft does not automatically mean you will hit it shorter. There are instances where angle of attack will govern which club you will hit farther. Bending an iron a little stronger takes of bounce, and having them a degree or two weak can add bounce. I for one need a little more bounce, and I can go down after it a little more with more bounce. That being said, I can compress the ball a little more and actually hit the ball more solidly and get a little more out of it. Same goes with a good many of todays pros. The courses they play have such tight lies that they have to go down after it a little more. Now, off a tee sweeping the ball with not ground contact, a lower lofted club will go farther. But irons can be a little different than woods.

[juststeve]

My first set of brand new irons were 67 MacGregor VIPs. They went from a 52* pitching wedge in 4* increments to a 16* one iron. The five Iron was 32 degrees. Most of us carried one sand wedge, about 56 or 57*, replaced the one iron with a four wood, driver, 3 wood and putter. It was a great way to set up a bag if you could handle the long irons.

 

Steve

[Jim_0068]

loft is a combination of CG placement and clubhead design. it's part of the reason why so many new GI irons are so strong lofted because the CG is so low if they had the loft at a similar level they would launch too high.

 

USUALLY you'll see blades with higher lofts because they launch lower (higher cg) and you'll see cbs and gi clubs with stronger lofts because they launch higher.

[tncup]

have played my irons 1/2 inch short for years and hit my 5 iron 195 with a lot more consistancy than I ever did at 38 inches. just like with all my other clubs, better ball striking was everything. lost no length, even gained some, with a lot more control. for me it was a no contest once I tried it, but we all got to find what works best for ourselves.

[apprenti23]

interesting post... i've often wondered this for myself...

[billybaroo]

27 degree. what club do you hit farther, a 13 degree strong 3 wood or a 21 degree 7 wood? simple logic buddy.

 

Simpleton logic maybe. What's faster 0-60 a 911 with 400 hp or a semi-rig with 600 hp, by your logic the semi would be faster. :P

 

It's not that straight forward in real life as there are too many factors not considered. Assuming all else is equal then yes the lower loft *might* go further, but it is not always the case. Would you hit a 4* lofted driver further than a 10 degree lofted driver?

[UNC41]

Manufacturers can produce drivers that hit the ball farther due to technology, but its not as easy to gain 10 yards by switching irons. So, I think companies like nike, callaway, etc. made all the lofts strong on their GI irons so that players think they are hitting their 8 iron much farther which leads to them buying the clubs. In reality, their 8 iron is now a 7 iron which explains the added distance. Most good golfers wouldn't sacrifice those few extra yards if it meant giving up control or consistency, but for the average guy he would rather take one less club on a par three than his buddy even if the results aren't as good.

[juststeve]

Less loft = more distance only if you generate enough speed to launch the ball high enough with sufficient spin to get maximum carry. That's why you see so many club golfers who it their 3, 4 and 5 irons about the same distance. They don't generate enough speed to get the longer irons into the air.

 

Steve

[abefroeman]

I play clubs that are 1/2 inch long and 1 degrees upright. I wonder if I can get a good fit by going with 'standard' shafts and 3 or more degrees upright. I would rather have more control than distance.

[phil75070]

loft is a combination of CG placement and clubhead design. it's part of the reason why so many new GI irons are so strong lofted because the CG is so low if they had the loft at a similar level they would launch too high.

 

USUALLY you'll see blades with higher lofts because they launch lower (higher cg) and you'll see cbs and gi clubs with stronger lofts because they launch higher.

 

That is the point so many are missing. You can't just compare lofts.

[Metalhead]

Great Topic!!

 

So- with so many 'Club Fitters' geared into plus lenghts and the "modern game"- how can you trust when you get fitted that what you get is Really what you need???

 

I myself, have been fitted in the past many years ago to 1/2" over 2 up*... but I have played around with lenghts to 1/4" under and 2 flat*...I can't really tell which works better...one promotes a draw and the other a fade.....

[rollingrock]

Recommended reading on lofts:

 

Loft Creep - Leaderboard essay on strengthening iron lofts. Long, but it gets a point across.

Making Sense of hybrids - Wishon article with comparison chart re: lofts today & in 1970.

[cb_golfer]

Better players can also hood their club which delofts hence the gain in distance.